American was a Christian Nation-What happened?

To all the eve posters, Happy New Year!!!!


Just saw the YES MAN with crazzzy Jim Carrey tonight, before Dick dropped the times square ball...a really neat message.

This thread is meeting my expectations, very thoughtful post on all sides during this pivitol time in our history. I'm prayin' for President Elect Obama and his team for wisdom, insight and good decisions...tomorrow I'll respond to the latest round of quotes, thoughts and posts.

You all are great; OT honored to be a part of it.


Be safe going home!

OT

[edit on 1-1-2009 by OldThinker]

Originally posted by sotp
I'm sorry, but that was the impression I was getting from some of your earlier posts. I thought you were going to use the New Testament to prove that point,

Nah, remember on your earlier request, you asked me not to...so I wanted to honor you...


Sensitive OT out...


PS: Fallout Boy is on TV, gotta go!!!

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by OldThinker

 

This nation was NOT formed to be exclusively Christian country.

Never said it was....it would be helpul if you read more than the first post ok?

OT

We began to allow gay marriage. I have nothing against gays but when you start allowing them the rights of married couples then you begin to deteriorate the morals of the communities in which they are apart in.

It is the new black plague.

Originally posted by crookedj0k3r
We began to allow gay marriage. I have nothing against gays but when you start allowing them the rights of married couples then you begin to deteriorate the morals of the communities in which they are apart in.

It is the new black plague.

??????


I dunno, ?? That's too harsh for me!!!

You have TOO much for New Years?

Originally posted by GlossomBoodchild
I really dont understand why anything of religious nature is allowed to posted on this forum....I understand it is a freedom of speech/opinion...and that this forum is based on speculation...but Religion and the belief in Jesus as God is not even speculation...or any other 'god' for that matter. Someone please offer the slightest of proof that there is a god and that Jesus existed...PLEASE?!?!
In my own opinion...people who are as they call themselves..."devoted christians/muslims/(insert any religion here)...are for the most part not very intelligent, not to mention delusional.....sorry

G?

All those Kahooo-na's???

When you first signed up to ATS last week? All those accusations? All those questions seeking answers? Well OT wrote you/answered you with about 5 full pages of stuff? You still out there

[edit on 1-1-2009 by OldThinker]

-Was America really a Christian country in the first place if it was based on murder and slavery?

Officially no….by INFLUENCE yes…did bad things happen…of course although “if it were based” is a stretch.

-Americans aren't necessarily turning away from Christ, they are just 'finding their own path' away from churches.

Slippery slop in my humble opinion. Maybe it my vantage point…but after many years the believers are the ones who start hospitals, universities and charities…also since devotional use of the Bible was removed from public schools in the early sixties, they now only teach reading writing and arithmetic…..where they used to also teach ‘right and wrong.’

-Americans are discovering other belief systems - is that such a bad thing?

You either believe Christ words or you don’t….TIME will tell I’m sure.



-

Everyone I know makes mistakes, individuals as well as countries. Yes, much to my dismay, we had slavery and we slaughtered large numbers of Native Americans. But do not forget that Native Americans attacked and decimated neighboring tribes, when they thought it was necessary.

It has been my experience as well. Christians and Jews tend to open their homes, their pantries and their wallets when someone is in need. They don't ask about their religion or lack thereof. They do as God Commanded. However, while I am nominally a Baptist, I haven't set foot inside a church for years. I read, I study, I talk to God, I meditate, and sometimes God talks back. (some will say that makes me crazy. At least I'm not sitting around with tinfoil on my head.)
I think that the words of Christ, (but not necessarily those of Paul) are the final say, but I believe we can learn much from looking down other paths. For example, the buddhists offer meditation techniques in mindfulness that many Christians would do well to learn.
[edit on 31-12-2008 by OldThinker]

Apropos to my original post, in answer to your question "what happened?" - TIME happened. During that time technology has evolved exponentially, allowing us access to constant streams of information about our less-than-honorable fellow men/women and the atrocities they commit with seemingly increasing frequency and ferocity. Seemingly I say, because perhaps it isn't that these things are happening statistically more than they were before the information revolution we are now in, but we have the capability, and are bombarded by these actions from many different sources and in an immediate fashion.
I think this contributes to a general desensitizing and then a tacit acceptance. Everybody REALLY IS doing it! - see?! there! and THERE! and THERE! Beyond that, where is the accountability, whether personal or rule of law? Day after day our "leaders", be they religious, political, educational, spiritual, etc etc are exposed for the humans they are with all their defects in the midst of or just after the fact of committing some offense or another on the people they were supposed to be "leading".

And then what? NOTHING of real substance for those that have the means to avoid any prosecution or accountability - our current administration, and previous administrations criminals are perfect examples. These people are held up to us to be the best, the brightest, the be-all end-all of whatever it is they are tasked with doing. We then find out that they aren't who they said they were and that they won't be held accountable, or their misdeeds are EXCUSED AND RATIONALIZED AS "OK" or "necessary for some-reason-of-national-blahblah".

I think this combination of zeitgeist has contributed to the slow decay of our society...and has little to do with whether or not we were founded as a christian nation

I submit that America is a nation of diverse religions, or it would not have the right of the individual to practice a religion of their choice.

No where in the Constitution, or the Decleration of Independance, or The Bill of Rights, is there any evidence proving this nation was founded only on the "Christian" faith.

The founding fathers, and early representatives from the original 13 colonies, were of varying religious beliefs. Link up to the Library of Congress for that info.

The founding fathers knew that if America was going to be a true free nation, it had to be created so that it allowed for the "Freedom of Religion".

It may be a nation with Christian religion, which is just one of many religions even in the beginings of this country, but it is definatley NOT a nation founded upon only the Christian doctrine.

It doesnt matter about the increase in numbers of people turning to the Christian faith over the 233 years this country has exsisted. That is irrelevant to the main question of the USA being founded on Christian beliefs.

As long as the Bill of Rights guarantees the Freedom of Religion, and as long as the Constitution exsists, and as long as the Decleration of Independance exsists, those 3 documents, which were the core of our nations founding, this country will always have those 3 documents as its roots and foundation for this nation's begining, and continuing exsistance.



Cheers!!!!

[edit on 1-1-2009 by RFBurns]

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
reply to post by open_eyeballs

 

Just wondering, did you read the OP? Did you actually read the quotes of the Founding Fathers, of the presidents, the many learned men who influenced this country? Or are you just thick headed.

I read some of them. They are actually irrelevant. If the OP would have posted "Americas Founding Fathers Were Christian, What Happened" then those quotes would have become more useful to him.

Luckily, our founding fathers were smart enough to keep out religion within the foundations of this country. Now, you may not like that and you may try to contort the reality to fit into your little box you think is reality. But the fact of the matter is America was not founded on Christianity. And right about now, in this day we live in, with all the biasis that are ingrained within the American people (especially after 9/11) it is completely evident just how intelligent and enlightened these men were.

So to answer your question, yes, I may be thick headed, but at least I am not grasping at straws and twisting the truth around to fit what I would like it to be.

There is a move in this country to undermine the basic moral principles on which this country was founded, and those of us who still believe in them are going to stand up and defend them.

I completely agree with that. I have no problem with some Christian principles and traditions (such as marriage) syncing up with American culture and influincing the population. Many of the principles Christianity represents are of great value. And I have much respect for the founders of that religion. But as I mentioned before, the Christians that run around today (at least many of them) are complete and utter hypocrites.

As I mentioned in an earlier post directed at Clearskies, if you would like a great example of said hypocrites, just flip your t.v. channel to TBN.

Oh my head....a little too much revelling methinks...anyway...

Originally posted by DrumJunkie

Ones spiritual. side should be kept personal. That way not pushing your belief on others. I do not like the door knocking Christians and more than I like someone calling me stupid for believing as I do

Well said! If only all religious people could be like you. Have a star!
I don't go around publicly proclaiming my disbelief, it would be nice if the religious could do likewise...

Originally posted by OldThinker

Nah, remember on your earlier request, you asked me not to...so I wanted to honor you...

I actually said don't use the O.T to prove prophecies in the N.T, but forget it, I'm getting confused as to who means what now!

And you like FallOut Boy? Oh dear....

Originally posted by crookedj0k3r
We began to allow gay marriage. I have nothing against gays but when you start allowing them the rights of married couples then you begin to deteriorate the morals of the communities in which they are apart in.

It is the new black plague.

New black plague? That's just offensive. You have nothing against gays? It sure doesn't seem like it. Let's face it, if America is in moral decline it started way before the whole gay marriage thing. Just because they have differing sexual practices doesn't make them bad people. Are all the rapists, thieves, drug dealers and drive-by shooters homosexuals? How many politicians or chairmen on Wall St. are gay? Aren't these people more responsible for any supposed decline?

Originally posted by sotp
If you can address these other points in a direct, non-bible-quotey kind of way I would be absolutely delighted.

Boom! Remember this one?

They say the 2nd thing to go is the memory (specially after stayin' up all night, ) can't remember the first...

Know what the third thing to go is....forget to ZIP up!

The fourth? Forget to ZIP down


OT

Fallout Boy? My adult children do

[edit on 1-1-2009 by OldThinker]

reply to post by OldThinker


Now now, I may be suffering slightly for the night before, but I did actually thank you for addressing the points thus. Let me thank you again - Thank you!

Originally posted by crookedj0k3r
We began to allow gay marriage. I have nothing against gays but when you start allowing them the rights of married couples then you begin to deteriorate the morals of the communities in which they are apart in.

It is the new black plague.

If you didn't have anything against gays, you wouldn't say that. I bet you also think this nation declined when we gave women rights and became more tolerant of other religions and cultures. I don't know what world you live in, but this is progress towards a mature civilization.

Originally posted by open_eyeballs

om/forum/thread422201/pg2#pid5523622]post by open_eyeballs[/url]

 

Just wondering, did you read the OP? Did you actually read the quotes of the Founding Fathers, of the presidents, the many learned men who influenced this country? Or are you just thick headed.

I read some of them.......

but at least I am not grasping at straws and twisting the truth around to fit what I would like it to be.

......, just flip your t.v. channel to TBN.

Where did I twist the truth?

What's TBN?

OT

Originally posted by open_eyeballs

om/forum/thread422201/pg2#pid5523622]post by open_eyeballs[/url]

 

Just wondering, did you read the OP? Did you actually read the quotes of the Founding Fathers, of the presidents, the many learned men who influenced this country? Or are you just thick headed.

I read some of them.......

but at least I am not grasping at straws and twisting the truth around to fit what I would like it to be.

......, just flip your t.v. channel to TBN.

Where did I twist the truth?

What's TBN?

OT

Originally posted by sotp
I may be suffering slightly for the night before, but I did actually thank you for addressing the points thus. Let me thank you again - Thank you!

Feeling better?

I'm actually out kickin' my boys butts at the local establishment in 'golden tee'

OT

PS Thx for the thanks, btw...

Originally posted by crookedj0k3r
We began to allow gay marriage. I have nothing against gays but when you start allowing them the rights of married couples then you begin to deteriorate the morals of the communities in which they are apart in.

It is the new black plague.

You do realize the institution of marriage was around LONG before christianity began right? Marriage was and still is in some forms, a contract for services in exchange for housing. It has nothing to do with religion. If it did, then people who get married without a minister of some form of faith would not be considered married. Unless youw ant to say that everyone married by a justice of the peace is living a lie and their marriage is null and void.

Originally posted by OldThinker

Feeling better?

Well, I was, but I've kinda been downing the beers again so I wouldn't be surprised if there's some in the morning....

Hope you had a good 'un too!

reply to post by Finn1916


Good post but OT stuggles a bit with a guy who says..."I fornicate and play hockey because they are the only two fun things to do in cold weather...who gives input on marriage ?

Maybe its just me?