If homosexuality is such a terrible sin, why is it not in the ten commandments?

Leviticus 20:13 (Amplified Bible)
13If a man lies with a male as if he were a woman, both men have committed an offense (something perverse, unnatural, abhorrent, and detestable); they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Christ did away with any death penalties related to any major sin. So in way it negates that part of the above scripture, however what it never changed was God's perspective of it. And that perspective is in the bold parts above.

What I don't understand are people who keep saying it's not there, then a few of us post the scripture's and people then say God didn't really mean it or we don't understand what he is really saying or the bible is lying.

It's there people, in black and white, get over it, disagree with it 100% that's part of the free will that God gave you. Yes agree to disagree on the principle.

But people who keep saying it's just not there are in big time denial. Fighting this point is an exercise in pure futility.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Leviticus 20:13 (Amplified Bible)
13If a man lies with a male as if he were a woman, both men have committed an offense (something perverse, unnatural, abhorrent, and detestable); they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Ah yes Leviticus,good find.
That biblical section (amongst others) also informs beleivers to murder many other types of people as well......and they teach this book to children?

I've always though it strange for homosexuality to be deemed an 'illness' as it is also prevalent in the animal kingdom.

You get gay elephants and rhinoceros-are these just god's mistakes or deviant,savannah dwelling pachyderms who had bad childhoods?

Its interesting that:

Homosexuality remained on the American psychiatric association's list of mental illnesses until 1973.

I thought they realised the condition was genetic far earlier than that.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

reply to post by stumason


It still is not the way that the Creator intended for it to happen. Sometimes we can get too carried away with playing "God", we must remember there is only one true Creator.

Call me old fashioned but a family is a daddy, mommy, and kids. Not two daddy's or two mommy's. If gay's want to live together, I say fine they are not hurting anyone, but when you add children to the mix then I think that is time to say no. Children don't need to grow up carring the extra burdens of what their parents do. It is a hard enough world for children to grow up in these days the way it is. As adults we need to be more mindful of our morals and how it would effect our children.

Just my thoughts,
Grandma

reply to post by karl 12


I don't expect you to understand God's way of doing things BEFORE Christ came.

Are animals accountable to God in any way?

As for it being an illness, all sin is a form of illness. We are all ill from inherited sin, or genetics as you say.






[edit on 11-1-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

MAN wrote the bible. Some homophobe from the sound of it.

Until God comes down, tells us like it is and writes it with his own hand in front of witnesses, I will remain skeptical toward the word attributed to him.

The bible God is an unforgiving God. He seems all wrong for my concept of what God is.

I don't expect you to understand God's way of doing things BEFORE Christ came.

Why,were people never benevolent,compassionate,empathic,charitable and kind in the cultured civilisations of ancient China and Sumeria?

Are animals accountable to God in any way?

I don't know if you know this but we're all primates;gorillas are more closely related to us than orangutans:

As for it being an illness, all sin is a form of illness. We are all ill from inherited sin, or genetics as you say.

"The Christian resolution to find the world ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad."
Friederich Nietzsche

The audacity of organised religion claiming mankind is inherently evil then stating the only cure for it is to mindlessly and unquestioningly accept doctrine never fails to amaze me.
Its rather anti-humanist and pessimistic in its presumptions don't you think?
Maybe its just the "create the problem to fix it" ruse.

Truth is no-one should realy have the right to judge other law abiding citizens -unless of course they're deluding themselves they are somehow more superior,chosen,special to other human beings - now thats a sin.


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by miriam0566
technically, sexual sins fall under the 6th commandment which is to not commit adultery

sex outside a marriage union is forbidden. period.

the only union blessed by god himself in the bible is between a man an woman.

Got to call ya on this one. What about Abraham making Ishmael with his wife's servant? And that child was blessed by God.

How about all the judges, kings, and general every day people, who had multiple concubines? (If memory serves, Solomon had over 500 concubines) Those were not marriage partners, and yet they remained uncondemned, and no mention of sin in any way regarding it.


Come on double standards!

Originally posted by Grandma
reply to post by stumason

 

It still is not the way that the Creator intended for it to happen. Sometimes we can get too carried away with playing "God", we must remember there is only one true Creator.

Call me old fashioned but a family is a daddy, mommy, and kids. Not two daddy's or two mommy's. If gay's want to live together, I say fine they are not hurting anyone, but when you add children to the mix then I think that is time to say no. Children don't need to grow up carring the extra burdens of what their parents do. It is a hard enough world for children to grow up in these days the way it is. As adults we need to be more mindful of our morals and how it would effect our children.

Just my thoughts,
Grandma

And I'll call you out on your logic with some logic of my own. Sure, cause the traditional family has never made messed up kids, and never mistreated them, always given them nothing but love and care and left the world a better place than they found it, right?

The evidence is there proving that the only ills that befall children of gay/lesbian couples are the ills that homophobic people put on them. They suffer no more and no less, otherwise, than any other child raised by hetero parents.

reply to post by karl 12


Your answers show that YOUR issue's go way beyond the context of this thread.

They all have their own threads on ATS, so I won't debate them any further in this thread taking us further off topic.

However the bottom line always comes down to "Accountability".

People don't want to be accountable to the Creator, not believing gives them the psychological lever to do whatever they want, and soothes their conscience's. It is easier not to have faith these days, that's the way society has developed these last 120 years.

They all have their own threads on ATS, so I won't debate them any further in this thread taking us further off topic.

Err I was just answering points which you introduced.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
However the bottom line always comes down to "Accountability".

People don't want to be accountable to the Creator, not believing gives them the psychological lever to do whatever they want, and soothes their conscience's.

I thought it was usualy the other way around with the 'overtly religious' types hiding behind their religion as a way of absolving any responsiblity for wrong-doing.
It seems to occur a lot with American politicians anyway:
www.brasschecktv.com...

It also appears non religious countries engage in 'better behaved' conduct than their religious counterparts - how does this fact correlate with your worldview?
www.belowtopsecret.com...

As for keeping on track with the thread a good question to ask gay hating christians is why don't you just forgive them?



[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

reply to post by karl 12


I have no problem forgiving a homosexual, if God can, so can I.

There is catch, the "practice" must stop.

Their was an account in the bible where the Jews were about to stone an female adulterer, and Jesus stopped them, sensing the woman's regret, he forgave her. And told her not to practice this sin anymore. The same would have applied to a homosexual had they been caught. Jesus was ready to forgive and forget, if a person was willing to stop a practice of major sin.

True Christians follow Jesus example in this area today.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by karl 12

 

I have no problem forgiving a homosexual, if God can, so can I.

There is catch, the "practice" must stop.

Their was an account in the bible where the Jews were about to stone an female adulterer, and Jesus stopped them, sensing the woman's regret, he forgave her. And told her not to practice this sin anymore. The same would have applied to a homosexual had they been caught. Jesus was ready to forgive and forget, if a person was willing to stop a practice of major sin.

True Christians follow Jesus example in this area today.

.. really.. where does jesus say that being gay is a sin.. i know there are a few scriptures that mention about man sould not lay with man.. but the words used have changed so many times how can u honestly follow what they are trying to say.. not to mention that there is scripture that states there are men who are born with no desire for women and that they are blessed.. and on top of that. jesus himself said judge not lest ye be judged..love how people pick and choose to push an ideal.. but wont practice what they preach...if u'r gonna push a biblical idea that is has obviously been manipulated to change its meaning for an agenda.. try useing a little more of the book that contradicts that ideal.. and stop acting like a nazi..its not for u to judge or forgive me.. because if u didnt judge me u wouldnt feel the need to forgive me.. and as far as the wording being changed to mean somthing else look it up and you'll see what i mean...if i remember correctly the word abomination isnt even in the original scripture,,the word used actually translates to untraditional.. neither is homosexual.. its easy to misinterpret scripture without checkin out the history of the book and the people who wrote it...

[edit on 12-1-2009 by scorand]

I have no problem forgiving a homosexual, if God can, so can I.

There is catch, the "practice" must stop.

Yes, I suppose the bottom line is 'is there actualy anything to be forgiven?'
Like I said before I have some gay friends and they seem quite happy and content.
I think a group of people having the effrontery to tell another group of people that they should not be doing certain (legal) things is a bit presumptuous -who are christians to judge anyone?

I think a good question is how would christians react if another group of people told them that their 'practise' must stop?

Apt video:






[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Christ did away with any death penalties related to any major sin. So in way it negates that part of the above scripture, however what it never changed was God's perspective of it.

Ok, I got you so far. Now please tell me, if an individual is of a faith in which homosexuality is not decried, will said gay still go to hell? I guess I'm asking if Methodists did eternity for eating meat on Fridays, too. Does the sin exist if it is not part of one's belief pattern?

And could you also cite me the scripture that states unequivocally that the Old Testament was merely the Beta version? I've always kinda wondered about that. Because there are a lot of folks still citing Leviticus, and it's only fair that you Christians get all that sorted out for us lesser folk.

Just while we're at it, If Christ did away with all those death penalties, aren't we kind of second guessing him by continuing apply them ourselves? Well, not here, but you know what I mean...

[edit on 12-1-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
People don't want to be accountable to the Creator, not believing gives them the psychological lever to do whatever they want, and soothes their conscience's. It is easier not to have faith these days, that's the way society has developed these last 120 years.

Most bloodshed and misery inflicted on this planet, was done so.. and continues to be done so, in the name of religion.
People do NOT want to be accountable to a creator, because it is fantasy... it is not real, not proven and purely in the head of the believer.

It is much easier to not have faith and live free of religious dogma and BS because we live in an age of scientific and spiritual enlightenment....
Not the dark ages.... or some mystical time where you could control people through fear of religious persecution and "witch-hunts".

EVERYTHING in the bible is MAN-MADE/WRITTEN..... FACT!
it is lies, corruption, racism,sexism and every other type of disgusting prejudice you can think of.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Leviticus 20:13 (Amplified Bible)
13If a man lies with a male as if he were a woman, both men have committed an offense (something perverse, unnatural, abhorrent, and detestable); they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Christ did away with any death penalties related to any major sin. So in way it negates that part of the above scripture, however what it never changed was God's perspective of it. And that perspective is in the bold parts above.

What I don't understand are people who keep saying it's not there, then a few of us post the scripture's and people then say God didn't really mean it or we don't understand what he is really saying or the bible is lying.

It's there people, in black and white, get over it, disagree with it 100% that's part of the free will that God gave you. Yes agree to disagree on the principle.

But people who keep saying it's just not there are in big time denial. Fighting this point is an exercise in pure futility.

this isnt the ten comandments.. how about the rest of lev.. or are u just pulling out what u want to hear

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Christ did away with any death penalties related to any major sin. So in way it negates that part of the above scripture, however what it never changed was God's perspective of it.

Ok, I got you so far. Now please tell me, if an individual is of a faith in which homosexuality is not decried, will said gay still go to hell? I guess I'm asking if Methodists did eternity for eating meat on Fridays, too. Does the sin exist if it is not part of one's belief pattern?

Just while we're at it, If Christ did away with all those death penalties, aren't we kind of second guessing him by continuing apply them ourselves? Well, not here, but you know what I mean...

[edit on 12-1-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]

Unlike some Christians I don't think any practicing homosexuals are going to "hell". In fact God is even going to bring almost all of those who died back in the general resurrection in the future, even homosexuals. None are in hell, none are going to hell. As for the punishment it becomes the same as an animal at death, non-existence for all eternity.

As for the death penalties, your assessment is correct.

I think the 10 commandments were sufficient to demonstrate that all have sinned and are in need of redemption if sin is, in fact, death. In that regard, it is a least common denominator and we're all guilty (as sin haha).

Various homosexual apologists want to suggest that homosexuality implies automatically the acts of homosexuality rather than first the desire, then the action. Is it possible that people are 'born' with homosexual desire? Sure - it's pretty obvious. Does that mean they must act on their impulses? Not necessarily. Lots of people are born with different traits and it seems that much of human existence is dedicated to overriding those traits. So, I don't buy the "I'm born this way or that way" apologetics for any trait that subjects its manifestation to action. In other words, I'll give you a pass if you have a kidney abnormality but that's about it. Otherwise, I feel sorry sorry that you are a slave to your unbridled desires.

Everyone makes decisions and those decisions are under their control. We're not a bunch of wild animals chasing after meat. Decisions, those things that precede actions, are a matter of the mind and are dominated by our preferences. Those preferences can change and hence our decisions can also.

Jesus didn't come here to condemn anyone but he didn't come to destroy the law either. He came to pay our penalty for being guilty under the law which is both fair and perfect. The good news is, we can accept what he did, sinners that we all are, and still have communion with God. The surprise for most sinners is that when they do accept what Jesus did, they tend to turn from their sins whatever they may be. They are no longer in bondage to them.

It happened to me, it can happen to anyone.

reply to post by Ichabod


Nicely stated, I agree.

Ok, here is my question. As I understand it Christ is supposed to be the son of God and God sent him here to do what he did...Now in my mind (only my thoughts here) when I go to my Dad's house his rules are the law. It is his house and ultimately if you are there it is his rules. Now what if God says, "Yea, you may have taught those things but my rules are my rules!" Where does that put Christ's teachings? Now I understand that they are supposed to be one in the same but there is some rank structure there.

I dont think that it is natural personally. Our bodies were made to fit together certain ways and the male body doesn't do that well...Our reproductive organs were made for tjust that purpose...to reproduce. That being said I dont care if you are gay or not...are you a decent person? That is what matters here and now...If there is a God and if you do meet him...then it is your problem with the judgement that is or is not placed on you. Not your neighbors!

If the sins of our fathers are passed down and you tend to believe such things...(this could be genetics) then why is it not possible that it is a disposition that someone is born with? Then a person has as much choice about being gay as someone has about being an albino.

Do your own thing but I would rather not have tolerance force fed to me about as much as people hate having religion forced upon them...