If homosexuality is such a terrible sin, why is it not in the ten commandments? , page 15

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reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 06:33 PM by Good Wolf

reply to post by kaferwerks

I dont think that it is natural personally. Our bodies were made to fit together certain ways and the male body doesn't do that well...Our reproductive organs were made for tjust that purpose...to reproduce.

You're forgetting the reproducing is only one of multiple purposes for sex, and it's the only purpose that needs a heterosexual couple for.

Also it is natural by the very definition of natural, it is after all produced in nature by nature.

[edit on 14/1/2009 by Good Wolf]

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 06:57 PM by scorand

i see some people love to quote lev. and other scripture about this but when u call up other issues then they say jesus changed that.. hmmm picking and choseing again.. thats whats called being a hypocrate

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:11 PM by Blue_Jay33

reply to post by scorand

Nope, that's called accurate knowledge of the truth of the bible. Understanding what applies in 2009 AD, and what applied in 1009 BC, some things changed others stayed the same. If the principle is in both the Old Testament and the New Testament then it still applies.

I am glad we are no longer under the Mosaic Law, I would not enjoy killing animals as sacrifices as was required by God before Christ came.

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 12:19 AM by Kiltedninja

I've concluded that God likes barbeque. Especially grilled lamb chops.

Anyway, I've thought of a solution to all of this, why don't you Christian folk go ask God about it? Then all of us non christian folk can listen to what God has told you, bring a video camera when you go ask, I'd like to see some proof. And instructions on how to ask god questions. This way, we can have our answers, and you can have your 'F**k you non-believers, God is real, we were right' moment, and we'll all be happy or dead.

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 12:26 AM by scorand

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

really.. and who decided. jesus never condemed it.. its still picking and choosing..due to dogma and pressure from the people in charge not acurate knowlege of the truth..

[edit on 14-1-2009 by scorand]

[edit on 14-1-2009 by scorand]

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 12:32 AM by scorand

Originally posted by crmanager
reply to post by asmeone2

You start your blantanly agressive post by saying Christians belive that Homosexuality is the worst sin.

That is simply wrong. As wrong as saying "All gays belive... and all Asians believe that."

Second, Christians are just like everyone else when we are offended by behavior. We don't care what you do as long as you keep it to yourself and don't force us to agree with you.

It is not in the 10 commandments. You are right. Anyone who says they know why is a liar and a fool.

If you follow the 10 commandments you can't go wrong. Believe in God or not.

That includes Gays. Homosexuality is NOT A SIN as the Pope JUST SAID.

BEING GAY IS NOT A SIN.

Performing gays acts is a sin because it does not propogate the species. The species dies. That is a sin.

God said, "be fruitful and multiply." When we act in ways that goes against what God says he is offended, making it a sin.

Please stop with these never ending CHRISTIAN vs GAY posts. They are getting tiresome.

You are gay, SUPER.

Christians are not evil, SUPER again.

but christians can shove their idealology and opinion on everyone else??

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 12:48 AM by scorand

Originally posted by secretstash
Not propagating is not a sin. Was that a double negative? Anyway, delving into the science of genitically modfied children is entirely off the subject. The OP asked why homosexuals were not in the top 10. I don't know why it didn't make the top 10, perhaps it was number 11 on the list and they didn't have room on the stone tablets. Regardless, there is scripture supporting that it is a sin.

but those verses have been proven to be falsified... someone on this thread.( dont remember who off hand) posted it .. i'm sure what they posted will be easy to verify

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 01:04 AM by scorand

Originally posted by Lonelypoet
Young Stalin, let's see. If you are a follower of Stalin and his teachings, then that implies that you are an atheist, or agnostic, which answers as to why you made such an uneducated observation.

Jesus said that there were two great commandments, and they are to one, love God with all your heart, soul and mind, and two, to love your neighbor as yourself, for "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Matthew 22:37-40) ~ King James Version

So, if we follow God and do all He says, plus love our neighbor as we would want to be treated, then do you think we would rape, commit arson, molest children, or any of those other sins that you mentioned? I should think not, for they are all sins against mankind, and against God! So, if we love God, and our fellow man, then it would automatically follow that we would do none of those other things, understand?

part of the problem is that the verses in the book being used is a mistranlstion.. and that the original verses were misunderstood to mean that this included gays.. as they had no understanding of homosexuality.. and some of the verses used were talking about ritualistic sex..

[edit on 14-1-2009 by scorand]

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 03:32 AM by markarse21

I think its funny how Christians love to quote the book of Leviticus where it says “A man should not lie with another man as he lies with a woman” but in the same book it says when a women has her periods she is considered unclean and no one can touch her or go near her for 7 days. Leviticus 18

Also the bible says that you can sell your daughter and it even has a recommended retail price. Wow this book has all the answers

So why do Christians take the parts they want literary but the other parts they say Oh you see that the Old book, doesn't apply these days. What a load of Crap.

In addition, the OP said “There is are ongoing threads with the Pope stating he beleives homosexuality is the greatest threat mankind” what they are scared of, is if homosexuality is considered acceptable, no man in his right mind would put up with the crap women give them and find being gay is a lot more easier. lol

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 05:44 AM by karl 12

reply to post by Ichabod

I suppose your quite within your rights to beleive in burning bushes,the ten commandments and the idea that 'man is inherently evil' but where does it say you have to forcefully impose these opinions on
everybody else - especialy those who think the stories are just complete fabrications or magical realism inspired mythology?

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 06:10 AM by Razimus

reply to post by asmeone2

Just because it's not in the 10 commandments doesn't mean it isn't a sin, it's specifically mentioned by Moses though, don't make me quote it, it simply says from memory, Man should never lie with man it is sin, says the same for women and women and close relatives, it makes it crystal clear, those that misunderstood Jesus say he did away with the old testament, but he only did away with the foolishness of the old testament such as what's Kosher and what's not, he didn't do away with the 10 commandments and he didn't do away with man lying with man, why do you think Sodom and Gomorah was destroyed, because of man on man sodomy, the sodomists raping the prophet was the last straw but it never would've happened if they weren't sodomists to begin with, aside from all of thise, hate the sin not the sinner, only God can judge the sinner. I have gay friends, I don't hate them obviously although I would say they are more confused than the non-gays I know.

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 07:32 AM by Ichabod

Originally posted by karl 12
reply to post by Ichabod

...where does it say you have to forcefully impose these opinions on
everybody else ...

I've shared my personal experience of salvation at various times on ATS. I've shared my view of the bible. You can believe it or not. If you feel that my sharing equates to "forcefully imposing" then I can't help you. I have no power over anyone nor do I seek it. I simply provided my understanding of the 10 commandments and my view of homosexual apologetics. I even generalized my view to include any non-autonomic function that is subject to decision-making just to avoid the ranting of labelers protecting their particular chosen behaviors.

It sounds like many on this post take exception to both the biblical commands found in Leviticus, the 10 commandments, and throughout the bible. That's fine, they have their right to be their own authority, to choose what they define as good and bad - that's what your preferences do for you. Most seem to want to rewrite their own commandments, or perhaps reduce the list. Is 5 too many? How about 2? Or just one? Can you keep it?

As I said, in my opinion the 10 commandments are a low bar and should be sufficient to convince all of us that we're in a miserable way here. I include myself in that despite my salvation because I am still a sinner.

During Jesus' time on earth, he stated clearly that he was not here to destroy the law. But he did do something that every judge does every day around the world, he showed that laws must be interpreted and he showed, in my opinion, the right interpretation of the law.

His interpretation of law is beautiful because it demonstrates both justice and mercy.

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 07:37 AM by Ridhya

reply to post by Griff

Do you think its too late to glue these hairs back on my face..?

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 08:47 AM by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Christ did away with any death penalties related to any major sin. So in way it negates that part of the above scripture, however what it never changed was God's perspective of it.

And could you also cite me the scripture that states unequivocally that the Old Testament was merely the Beta version? I've always kinda wondered about that. Because there are a lot of folks still citing Leviticus, and it's only fair that you Christians get all that sorted out for us lesser folk.

Might we deal with this other question, then, please? I'm a little fuzzy on when and how all of these early Old Testament rules were rescinded, and I'm not alone because I keep hearing them being trotted out. I gotta say, it's tough enough for us apparent sinners to keep it all straight when self-avowed Christians are apparently confused on the issue.

Hence the subject of this thread...

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 09:43 AM by Ichabod

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

Yep, those claiming Christianity are a confused lot. What group isn't?

IMO the law has never been done away with. In fact, perfect keeping of the law is defined as righteousness. So, did Christ do away with the law? No way! I think he satisfied it perfectly for all time. There are two points I think worth making.

First, the law must be interpreted and keeping it has side-effects. If I do evil by keeping the law, am I righteous just because I kept the law? No. Jesus deals with this issue continuously throughout his ministry. Jesus demonstrated amply that not only was nobody keeping the law literally but that they more importantly weren't keeping the spirit of it. Nothing has changed in that - none of us is righteous.

Second, according to God's rules there is a sacrificial penalty to be paid for breaking the law whether intentionally or unintentionally. The complexities of this are explained in Torah for both intentional and unintentional sins. IMO, what Jesus did was to pay that penalty for everyone, for all time. Since the point is that this sacrifice is made, we have only to accept it to be the beneficiaries of it. It doesn't remove the law - we're all still condemned. If you determine to keep the law - fantastic! As a Christian, I would never tell people that their salvation depends on it because I believe Jesus has paid the price.

Again, only in IMO, much of what discussions like this come down to is who is going to be your authority in life. Is it God? Yourself? A personal guru? The government? We all have a natural inclination to reject or question authority. I personally believe that by accepting God's authority and trying to follow the spirit of the law, we'd all be much better off. But I'm willing to allow for everyone to have the freedom to go sinning the head's off within the confines of civil law.

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 10:22 AM by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Ichabod
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

Yep, those claiming Christianity are a confused lot. What group isn't?

IMO the law has never been done away with. In fact, perfect keeping of the law is defined as righteousness. So, did Christ do away with the law? No way! I think he satisfied it perfectly for all time.

So, BlueJay says Jesus says I can eat clams, but you say he doesn't, but it's ok if I do because he died for our sins.

Citation, please. Either Leviticus and other Old Testament thunderers still apply or they don't. Who said Commandments are commandments, but this whole Leviticus/abomination thing has been reduced to a series of suggestions? Chapter and verse, please.

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 12:59 PM by Ichabod

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

I'm not saying you should violate any part of the law especially those parts that are easy for you personally to keep. I'm just saying that in my understanding your salvation is not based on how well or poorly you do at keeping the law. It never has been for anyone. Abraham was justified by faith and didn't have the law but he's saved - I'm sure of that. Why? Because his faith was credited to him as righteousness. As for all of us coming later, we have the benefit of the law and Jesus' sacrifice so it shouldn't be as difficult to have faith.

Read Matt 5:6,10. In fact, read Matt chp 5,6,7 and you'll get the entire manifesto.

Although there is an anti-Paul thread running around here somewhere, I also like Paul's explanation of these ideas in Rom chp 3, 4, 5, and 6.

Anyway, I'm so far off topic I'm certain I've pissed off the OP by now. I'll clam up and let others have their say.

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 03:24 PM by Grandma

reply to post by Ichabod

Ichavbod:

Enjoy your posts and agree with everything you have stated. Jesus even supported the law of the Roman's, even unto death. He could have faught back, even called down a bunch of angels to fight for him. He went willing with the soldiers and offered up himslef without a fight.

Jesus never came to do away with the 10 commandments. I think his coming helped us to better understand the meaning of the Law and what it means to us even today.

Peace to you,
Grandma

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 11:33 PM by Kiltedninja

Though I do believe that Jesus looked at the Pharisees with disfavor because they followed the law that God had given before so well? Or is my bible wrong about that? I may not be Christian anymore, but I do know the Bible, so tell me, am I wrong to assume that Jesus was contradicting himself there?

reply posted on 15-1-2009 @ 08:02 AM by Ichabod

reply to post by Kiltedninja

Jesus simply pointed out the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, i.e. they didn't practice what they preached. There is no contradiction whatsoever. In fact, just as modern day Pharisees, they were adding to the law and increasing the burden on everyone with burdens they were unwilling to bear themselves.

One might well wonder what he meant when he said that if your righteousness did not exceed that of the Pharisees, you wouldn't see heaven. Was this a low bar? Were they that unrighteous? How can we achieve this if the experts in the law can't? I believe that nobody is naturally righteous where it counts - in the heart - and that we can't address that without the power of the holy spirit indwelling us.

Now, I know to unbelievers this is going to sound so supernatural as to be unbelievable, and that's fine. People on ATS appear willing to believe far more incredible supernatural ideas than the idea of an almighty God being able to change your heart. The only evidence I have for it are the personal testimonies and changed lives of believers that I know (and even some of these turn out to be fraudulent). Don't look to television evangelists for this, look to regular people in your own neighborhoods.

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