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Topic started on 16-12-2008 @ 07:37 AM by heliosprime
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CO2 emissions from fossil-fuel burning and industrial processes have been accelerating at a global scale, with their growth rate increasing from
1.1% y−1 for 1990–1999 to >3% y−1 for 2000–2004. The emissions growth rate since 2000 was greater than for the most fossil-fuel intensive of
the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change emissions scenarios developed in the late 1990s.
www.pnas.org...
This data indicates that although the world has worked very hard to decrease CO2 emissions worldwide, in fact CO2 has increased. BUT, data indicates
that sine 1998 world temperatures have DECREASED and are thought to be DOWN for the next 23 years.
The official thermometers at the U.S. National Climate Data Center show a slight global cooling trend over the last seven years, from 1998 to
2005.
Actually, global warming is likely to continue—but the interruption of the recent strong warming trend sharply undercuts the argument that our
global warming is an urgent, man-made emergency. The seven-year decline makes our warming look much more like the moderate, erratic warming to be
expected when the planet naturally shifts from a Little Ice Age (1300–1850 AD) to a centuries-long warm phase like the Medieval Warming (950–1300
AD) or the Roman Warming (200 BC– 600 AD).
The stutter in the temperature rise should rein in some of the more apoplectic cries of panic over man-made greenhouse emissions. The strong 28-year
upward trend of 1970–1998 has apparently ended.
acuf.org...
So which is it, CO2 causes warming or is it cooling? Or has the significat effort to REDUCE CO2 emissions reached the true "tipping" point and
caused the earth to spiral into another ICE AGE?
Of does CO2 have any effect at all?
CHURCHVILLE VA—Now it’s not just the sunspots that predict a 23-year global cooling. The new Jason oceanographic satellite shows that 2007 was
a “cool” La Nina year—but Jason also says something more important is at work: The much larger and more persistent Pacific Decadal Oscillation
(PDO) has turned into its cool phase, telling us to expect moderately lower global temperatures until 2030 or so.
www.cgfi.org...
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reply posted on 16-12-2008 @ 07:48 AM by Waldy
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Yeah, you can spin this like this but the reality is that it causes global warming that triggers the natural cooling system of the earth to go on
overdrive resulting in dramatic cooling. Add the solar minimum to the equation and you get even more cooling.
It has also been debated that we delayed the coming ice age with co2 emissions.
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reply posted on 16-12-2008 @ 07:52 AM by heliosprime
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Originally posted by Waldy
Yeah, you can spin this like this but the reality is that it causes global warming that triggers the natural cooling system of the earth to go on
overdrive resulting in dramatic cooling. Add the solar minimum to the equation and you get even more cooling.
It has also been debated that we delayed the coming ice age with co2 emissions.
Err talk about spin.........think I getting verigo from the spin on your post.... 
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reply posted on 16-12-2008 @ 07:58 AM by Essan
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What this shows is that - as all scientists have known all along - there are many varying factors that determine the year on year temperature of the
planet.
However, on average - all else being equal - then for a doubling of CO2, the temp will be 1c higher than without the doubling of CO2.
Feedbacks may increase (or decrease) that figure. Natural cooling (or warming) still takes place. We may have a period which is 3c colder than today
- but, were it not for that doubling of CO2 it would have been at least 4c colder. On the other hand, if we enter a naturally warm phase (an over
active Sun maybe?) then it will be even warmer than it would otherwise have been. That's the reality.
Increases in CO2 - and other human activities that cause global warming - do not mean that natural variability ceases to exist.
AGW simply means cold years are not as cold whilst warm years are even warmer.
Those still implying that an increase in CO2 means every year should be warmer than the one before really don't have the faintest idea about climate
whatsoever!
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reply posted on 16-12-2008 @ 08:05 AM by detachedindividual
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One piece of evidence is refuted by another, and the next is refuted again.
Fact is, it doesn't even matter.
We still need to work to be more in-tune with our planet, the way we abuse and destroy the environment is wrong on every level, with or without global
warming.
We are causing damage to our species and all others through our arrogance and greed, and if it takes the fears created by the global warming threat,
then so be it.
I'll openly support the theories proposed by the groups arguing that global warming is man made, because if I don't, and nothing changes, the damage
done to our environment by man will be irreparable.
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reply posted on 16-12-2008 @ 08:30 AM by cancerian42
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the temp. began to rise before the CO2 levels did. I did a project about it last year with the idea that I would prove global warming true and I
ended up seeing that the opposite of my theory was more factual. Global cooling has been stated by a few scientists for a long time actually. It's
just that not many people choose to give them the credit for their research,instead they go along with the msm because everyone else does.
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reply posted on 16-12-2008 @ 09:35 AM by Outlawstar
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Ultimatly, global warming is being used as another fear tactic by the government, another thing for our minds to be on and another excuse to take our
money.
The earth is cooling, there has been FAR more CO2 in the atmosphere in the past, and the world didint catch fire.
At this stage though, I agree with a recent poster that we need to clean up our act, and we need to start respecting and looking after our planet.
Unfortunatly I cant see that happening while the greedy oil companies force us to use every last drop of the oil.
Its sickening really.
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reply posted on 16-12-2008 @ 09:40 AM by Waldy
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reply to post by Outlawstar
Its not true that there has been far more co2 in the atmosphere in the past. You need to go 500 million years back to see equal amount of co2 as we
have today.
Edit for source: www.pnas.org...
[edit on 16-12-2008 by Waldy]
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reply posted on 16-12-2008 @ 10:39 AM by Outlawstar
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Originally posted by Waldy
reply to post by Outlawstar
Its not true that there has been far more co2 in the atmosphere in the past. You need to go 500 million years back to see equal amount of co2 as we
have today.
Edit for source: www.pnas.org...
[edit on 16-12-2008 by Waldy]
As early as 300 million years ago there was about 4 times more CO2 in the atmosphere.
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reply posted on 16-12-2008 @ 10:44 AM by Outlawstar
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In fact todays Co2 levels are considerably lower than most periods of time on the planet, during the jurassic, Co2 concentrations were 18 times
higher!!!
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reply posted on 17-12-2008 @ 05:57 AM by Waldy
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I have posted a link to a scientific study that proofs the CO2 levels have not been as high as today for the past 500 million years. What have you
done other than just claim the opposite without posting any source or evidence?
Post your source or stop talking nonsense!
Edit: This is a reply to Outlawstar.
[edit on 17-12-2008 by Waldy]
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reply posted on 17-12-2008 @ 06:24 AM by heliosprime
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Originally posted by Waldy
I have posted a link to a scientific study that proofs the CO2 levels have not been as high as today for the past 500 million years. What have you
done other than just claim the opposite without posting any source or evidence?
Post your source or stop talking nonsense!
Edit: This is a reply to Outlawstar.
[edit on 17-12-2008 by Waldy]
You are both wrong, CO2 has little effect on warming whatsoever.
Quote 1: The AP said: "Carbon dioxide, the gas largely blamed for global warming, has reached record-high levels in the atmosphere after growing
at an accelerated pace in the past year..."
Facts: Carbon dioxide is not the major greenhouse gas (water vapor is).2
Carbon dioxide accounts for less than ten percent of the greenhouse effect, as carbon dioxide's ability to absorb heat is quite limited.3
Only about 0.03 percent of the Earth's atmosphere consists of carbon dioxide (nitrogen, oxygen, and argon constitute about 78 percent, 20 percent,
and 0.93 percent of the atmosphere, respectively).4
The sun, not a gas, is primarily to "blame" for global warming -- and plays a very key role in global temperature variations as well.
Quote 2: The AP said: "Carbon dioxide, mostly from burning of coal, gasoline and other fossil fuels, traps heat that otherwise would radiate into
space."
Fact: Most of the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere does not come from the burning of fossil fuels. Only about 14 percent of it does.5
Quote 3: The AP said: "Global temperatures increased by about 1 degree Fahrenheit (0.6 degrees Celsius) during the 20th century, and international
panels of scientists sponsored by world governments have concluded that most of the warming probably was due to greenhouse gases."
Facts: Most of 20th Century global warming occurred in the first few decades of that century,6 before the widespread burning of fossil fuels (and
before 82 percent of the increase in atmospheric CO2 observed in the 20th Century7).
The Earth does not have "world governments." It doesn't even have even one, as the United Nations is not a government, but an association of
nations.
If the AP is referring to the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the AP should become aware that the IPCC report itself (the
part written by scientists) reached no consensus on climate change. What did reach a conclusion was an IPCC "summary for policymakers" prepared by
political appointees.8 Most reporters quote only the summary, being either too lazy or too undereducated to understand the actual report. This does
not explain, however, why reporters don't more frequently interview scientists who helped prepare it -- scientists such as IPCC participant Dr.
Richard Lindzen of MIT, who says the IPCC report is typically "presented as a consensus that involves hundreds, perhaps thousands, of scientists...
and none of them was asked if they agreed with anything in the report except for the one or two pages they worked on." Lindzen also draws a sharp
distinction between the scientists' document and its politicized summary: "the document itself is informative; the summary is not."9
www.nationalcenter.org...
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reply posted on 17-12-2008 @ 06:54 AM by Waldy
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reply to post by heliosprime
No, I am right, CO2 levels have not been this high for at least 500 million years. The effects of it, however, is debatable.
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reply posted on 17-12-2008 @ 05:08 PM by heliosprime
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Originally posted by Waldy
reply to post by heliosprime
No, I am right, CO2 levels have not been this high for at least 500 million years. The effects of it, however, is debatable.
Proof please...............proof...............show me the data from 500 million years ago, want to see the sample.............what was the "test"
of the sample? how was it measured? What equipment was used........?
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reply posted on 17-12-2008 @ 05:12 PM by The Bald Champion
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Originally posted by heliosprime
Originally posted by Waldy
Yeah, you can spin this like this but the reality is that it causes global warming that triggers the natural cooling system of the earth to go on
overdrive resulting in dramatic cooling. Add the solar minimum to the equation and you get even more cooling.
It has also been debated that we delayed the coming ice age with co2 emissions.
Err talk about spin.........think I getting verigo from the spin on your post....
Its your attitude that got Obama elected 
Anti science, jesus and Rush.
Why don't ya bring your snow parka into my green house??? ITs real cold in there
genius abound!
[edit on 17-12-2008 by The Bald Champion]
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reply posted on 17-12-2008 @ 08:34 PM by melatonin
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Originally posted by heliosprime
This data indicates that although the world has worked very hard to decrease CO2 emissions worldwide, in fact CO2 has increased. BUT, data indicates
that sine 1998 world temperatures have DECREASED and are thought to be DOWN for the next 23 years.
Nope, now looks like they were up for the last 10 years (1999-2008)
Cherrypicking's fun!
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reply posted on 17-12-2008 @ 08:57 PM by ANNED
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reply posted on 17-12-2008 @ 09:20 PM by funny_pom
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Originally posted by Waldy
Yeah, you can spin this like this but the reality is that it causes global warming that triggers the natural cooling system of the earth to go on
overdrive resulting in dramatic cooling. Add the solar minimum to the equation and you get even more cooling.
It has also been debated that we delayed the coming ice age with co2 emissions.
Tell me, please, what this cooling system is, or how it works.
there is no natural cooling system to be had, the earth isn't a thermostat.
however, yes in the event of "global warming" the earth will come out colder, at least for a short while. The mechanism driving said cooling is
known as the thermo-haline current, located in the oceans. it brings warm waters from the equator to the poles and visa-verse. Haline, meaning salt,
means that it requires a delicate balance of salt in order to function and if this balance equilibrium is disrupted the current will cease to flow,
cease to transport warm waters to the poles and colder waters to the equator and so you will end up with temperature extremes between the two. The
cold temperatures will eventually proceed towards the equator creating an ice age. this ice age will last for perhaps a few thousand years before
temperatures rise, and create a green house environment.
In conclusion, the balance of salts in the oceans is disrupted by the influx of fresh water coming from melting sea ice, case study: the arctic ocean.
this melting is caused by increasing atmospheric temperatures caused by an increased green house effect caused ultimately by the "green house
gasses"; ie. methane, carbon dioxide and so on.
global warming is true, but is only part of a bigger climate shift event.
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reply posted on 17-12-2008 @ 09:26 PM by dooper
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reply to post by cancerian42
Yeah, well I suggested that a while back on another thread, and some of the ATS geniuses jumped all over me.
I simply noted that if the polar ice is somehow shrinking, then it would be due to global cooling.
It take four times the heat to melt a pound of steel as it does to transport one pound of snow to the polar regions. Heat is what builds the polar
caps. Heat is what provides the snow, which compacts and turns to ice.
Heat, not cold increases the polar ice.
The one factor that the global warming nuts leave out of the equation is precipitation. Logically, the warmer the water, the more water vapor, the
more precipitation. Overall, precipitation is the regulating mechanism.
Al Gore can pucker up and smooch my rosy red wrecktum. Idiot.
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reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 04:26 AM by heliosprime
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Originally posted by melatonin
Originally posted by heliosprime
This data indicates that although the world has worked very hard to decrease CO2 emissions worldwide, in fact CO2 has increased. BUT, data indicates
that sine 1998 world temperatures have DECREASED and are thought to be DOWN for the next 23 years.
Nope, now looks like they were up for the last 10 years (1999-2008)
err I think you missed the data on your own charts.........try this place its easier for the "environmentally challenged" to grasp..
Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow
in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record
levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile --
the list goes on and on.
www.dailytech.com...
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