Absolute Proof increased CO2 causes global "cooling"?

CO2 emissions from fossil-fuel burning and industrial processes have been accelerating at a global scale, with their growth rate increasing from 1.1% y−1 for 1990–1999 to >3% y−1 for 2000–2004. The emissions growth rate since 2000 was greater than for the most fossil-fuel intensive of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change emissions scenarios developed in the late 1990s.

www.pnas.org...

This data indicates that although the world has worked very hard to decrease CO2 emissions worldwide, in fact CO2 has increased. BUT, data indicates that sine 1998 world temperatures have DECREASED and are thought to be DOWN for the next 23 years.

The official thermometers at the U.S. National Climate Data Center show a slight global cooling trend over the last seven years, from 1998 to 2005.

Actually, global warming is likely to continue—but the interruption of the recent strong warming trend sharply undercuts the argument that our global warming is an urgent, man-made emergency. The seven-year decline makes our warming look much more like the moderate, erratic warming to be expected when the planet naturally shifts from a Little Ice Age (1300–1850 AD) to a centuries-long warm phase like the Medieval Warming (950–1300 AD) or the Roman Warming (200 BC– 600 AD).

The stutter in the temperature rise should rein in some of the more apoplectic cries of panic over man-made greenhouse emissions. The strong 28-year upward trend of 1970–1998 has apparently ended.

acuf.org...

So which is it, CO2 causes warming or is it cooling? Or has the significat effort to REDUCE CO2 emissions reached the true "tipping" point and caused the earth to spiral into another ICE AGE?

Of does CO2 have any effect at all?

CHURCHVILLE VA—Now it’s not just the sunspots that predict a 23-year global cooling. The new Jason oceanographic satellite shows that 2007 was a “cool” La Nina year—but Jason also says something more important is at work: The much larger and more persistent Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO) has turned into its cool phase, telling us to expect moderately lower global temperatures until 2030 or so.

www.cgfi.org...

Yeah, you can spin this like this but the reality is that it causes global warming that triggers the natural cooling system of the earth to go on overdrive resulting in dramatic cooling. Add the solar minimum to the equation and you get even more cooling.

It has also been debated that we delayed the coming ice age with co2 emissions.

Originally posted by Waldy
Yeah, you can spin this like this but the reality is that it causes global warming that triggers the natural cooling system of the earth to go on overdrive resulting in dramatic cooling. Add the solar minimum to the equation and you get even more cooling.

It has also been debated that we delayed the coming ice age with co2 emissions.

Err talk about spin.........think I getting verigo from the spin on your post....

What this shows is that - as all scientists have known all along - there are many varying factors that determine the year on year temperature of the planet.

However, on average - all else being equal - then for a doubling of CO2, the temp will be 1c higher than without the doubling of CO2.

Feedbacks may increase (or decrease) that figure. Natural cooling (or warming) still takes place. We may have a period which is 3c colder than today - but, were it not for that doubling of CO2 it would have been at least 4c colder. On the other hand, if we enter a naturally warm phase (an over active Sun maybe?) then it will be even warmer than it would otherwise have been. That's the reality.

Increases in CO2 - and other human activities that cause global warming - do not mean that natural variability ceases to exist.

AGW simply means cold years are not as cold whilst warm years are even warmer.

Those still implying that an increase in CO2 means every year should be warmer than the one before really don't have the faintest idea about climate whatsoever!

One piece of evidence is refuted by another, and the next is refuted again.

Fact is, it doesn't even matter.

We still need to work to be more in-tune with our planet, the way we abuse and destroy the environment is wrong on every level, with or without global warming.

We are causing damage to our species and all others through our arrogance and greed, and if it takes the fears created by the global warming threat, then so be it.

I'll openly support the theories proposed by the groups arguing that global warming is man made, because if I don't, and nothing changes, the damage done to our environment by man will be irreparable.

the temp. began to rise before the CO2 levels did. I did a project about it last year with the idea that I would prove global warming true and I ended up seeing that the opposite of my theory was more factual. Global cooling has been stated by a few scientists for a long time actually. It's just that not many people choose to give them the credit for their research,instead they go along with the msm because everyone else does.

Ultimatly, global warming is being used as another fear tactic by the government, another thing for our minds to be on and another excuse to take our money.

The earth is cooling, there has been FAR more CO2 in the atmosphere in the past, and the world didint catch fire.

At this stage though, I agree with a recent poster that we need to clean up our act, and we need to start respecting and looking after our planet.

Unfortunatly I cant see that happening while the greedy oil companies force us to use every last drop of the oil.
Its sickening really.

reply to post by Outlawstar


Its not true that there has been far more co2 in the atmosphere in the past. You need to go 500 million years back to see equal amount of co2 as we have today.

Edit for source: www.pnas.org...



[edit on 16-12-2008 by Waldy]

Originally posted by Waldy
reply to post by Outlawstar

 

Its not true that there has been far more co2 in the atmosphere in the past. You need to go 500 million years back to see equal amount of co2 as we have today.

Edit for source: www.pnas.org...



[edit on 16-12-2008 by Waldy]

As early as 300 million years ago there was about 4 times more CO2 in the atmosphere.

In fact todays Co2 levels are considerably lower than most periods of time on the planet, during the jurassic, Co2 concentrations were 18 times higher!!!

I have posted a link to a scientific study that proofs the CO2 levels have not been as high as today for the past 500 million years. What have you done other than just claim the opposite without posting any source or evidence?

Post your source or stop talking nonsense!

Edit: This is a reply to Outlawstar.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by Waldy]

Originally posted by Waldy
I have posted a link to a scientific study that proofs the CO2 levels have not been as high as today for the past 500 million years. What have you done other than just claim the opposite without posting any source or evidence?

Post your source or stop talking nonsense!

Edit: This is a reply to Outlawstar.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by Waldy]

You are both wrong, CO2 has little effect on warming whatsoever.

Quote 1: The AP said: "Carbon dioxide, the gas largely blamed for global warming, has reached record-high levels in the atmosphere after growing at an accelerated pace in the past year..."

Facts: Carbon dioxide is not the major greenhouse gas (water vapor is).2

Carbon dioxide accounts for less than ten percent of the greenhouse effect, as carbon dioxide's ability to absorb heat is quite limited.3

Only about 0.03 percent of the Earth's atmosphere consists of carbon dioxide (nitrogen, oxygen, and argon constitute about 78 percent, 20 percent, and 0.93 percent of the atmosphere, respectively).4

The sun, not a gas, is primarily to "blame" for global warming -- and plays a very key role in global temperature variations as well.


Quote 2: The AP said: "Carbon dioxide, mostly from burning of coal, gasoline and other fossil fuels, traps heat that otherwise would radiate into space."

Fact: Most of the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere does not come from the burning of fossil fuels. Only about 14 percent of it does.5


Quote 3: The AP said: "Global temperatures increased by about 1 degree Fahrenheit (0.6 degrees Celsius) during the 20th century, and international panels of scientists sponsored by world governments have concluded that most of the warming probably was due to greenhouse gases."

Facts: Most of 20th Century global warming occurred in the first few decades of that century,6 before the widespread burning of fossil fuels (and before 82 percent of the increase in atmospheric CO2 observed in the 20th Century7).

The Earth does not have "world governments." It doesn't even have even one, as the United Nations is not a government, but an association of nations.

If the AP is referring to the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the AP should become aware that the IPCC report itself (the part written by scientists) reached no consensus on climate change. What did reach a conclusion was an IPCC "summary for policymakers" prepared by political appointees.8 Most reporters quote only the summary, being either too lazy or too undereducated to understand the actual report. This does not explain, however, why reporters don't more frequently interview scientists who helped prepare it -- scientists such as IPCC participant Dr. Richard Lindzen of MIT, who says the IPCC report is typically "presented as a consensus that involves hundreds, perhaps thousands, of scientists... and none of them was asked if they agreed with anything in the report except for the one or two pages they worked on." Lindzen also draws a sharp distinction between the scientists' document and its politicized summary: "the document itself is informative; the summary is not."9

www.nationalcenter.org...

reply to post by heliosprime


No, I am right, CO2 levels have not been this high for at least 500 million years. The effects of it, however, is debatable.

Originally posted by Waldy
reply to post by heliosprime

 

No, I am right, CO2 levels have not been this high for at least 500 million years. The effects of it, however, is debatable.

Proof please...............proof...............show me the data from 500 million years ago, want to see the sample.............what was the "test" of the sample? how was it measured? What equipment was used........?

Originally posted by heliosprime

Originally posted by Waldy
Yeah, you can spin this like this but the reality is that it causes global warming that triggers the natural cooling system of the earth to go on overdrive resulting in dramatic cooling. Add the solar minimum to the equation and you get even more cooling.

It has also been debated that we delayed the coming ice age with co2 emissions.

Err talk about spin.........think I getting verigo from the spin on your post....

Its your attitude that got Obama elected

Anti science, jesus and Rush.

Why don't ya bring your snow parka into my green house??? ITs real cold in there


genius abound!



[edit on 17-12-2008 by The Bald Champion]

Originally posted by heliosprime
This data indicates that although the world has worked very hard to decrease CO2 emissions worldwide, in fact CO2 has increased. BUT, data indicates that sine 1998 world temperatures have DECREASED and are thought to be DOWN for the next 23 years.

Nope, now looks like they were up for the last 10 years (1999-2008)





Cherrypicking's fun!

I have posted a link to a scientific study that proofs the CO2 levels have not been as high as today for the past 500 million years. What have you done other than just claim the opposite without posting any source or evidence?

www.globalwarmingart.com...
anthropology.si.edu...
www.onderzoekinformatie.nl...
anthropology.si.edu...
www.sciencemag.org...
anthropology.si.edu...
adsabs.harvard.edu...
anthropology.si.edu...
adsabs.harvard.edu...

The problem is man would have had no problems living during any of these times in fact man started during high CO2 times.

Man would have no problem living in a world with CO2 at 2000 ppm.
the hoax is that man would die in a world with high CO2 levels.

Yes the tree hugger preach doom from high CO2 levels.
but that is a lie and they know it but will not admit it.

The earth has never had a stable climate.

Its just that changes have taken 1000s of years and because of that no one has recorded them.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by ANNED]

[edit on 17-12-2008 by ANNED]

Originally posted by Waldy
Yeah, you can spin this like this but the reality is that it causes global warming that triggers the natural cooling system of the earth to go on overdrive resulting in dramatic cooling. Add the solar minimum to the equation and you get even more cooling.

It has also been debated that we delayed the coming ice age with co2 emissions.

Tell me, please, what this cooling system is, or how it works.

there is no natural cooling system to be had, the earth isn't a thermostat.

however, yes in the event of "global warming" the earth will come out colder, at least for a short while. The mechanism driving said cooling is known as the thermo-haline current, located in the oceans. it brings warm waters from the equator to the poles and visa-verse. Haline, meaning salt, means that it requires a delicate balance of salt in order to function and if this balance equilibrium is disrupted the current will cease to flow, cease to transport warm waters to the poles and colder waters to the equator and so you will end up with temperature extremes between the two. The cold temperatures will eventually proceed towards the equator creating an ice age. this ice age will last for perhaps a few thousand years before temperatures rise, and create a green house environment.

In conclusion, the balance of salts in the oceans is disrupted by the influx of fresh water coming from melting sea ice, case study: the arctic ocean. this melting is caused by increasing atmospheric temperatures caused by an increased green house effect caused ultimately by the "green house gasses"; ie. methane, carbon dioxide and so on.

global warming is true, but is only part of a bigger climate shift event.

reply to post by cancerian42


Yeah, well I suggested that a while back on another thread, and some of the ATS geniuses jumped all over me.

I simply noted that if the polar ice is somehow shrinking, then it would be due to global cooling.

It take four times the heat to melt a pound of steel as it does to transport one pound of snow to the polar regions. Heat is what builds the polar caps. Heat is what provides the snow, which compacts and turns to ice.

Heat, not cold increases the polar ice.

The one factor that the global warming nuts leave out of the equation is precipitation. Logically, the warmer the water, the more water vapor, the more precipitation. Overall, precipitation is the regulating mechanism.

Al Gore can pucker up and smooch my rosy red wrecktum. Idiot.

Originally posted by melatonin

Originally posted by heliosprime
This data indicates that although the world has worked very hard to decrease CO2 emissions worldwide, in fact CO2 has increased. BUT, data indicates that sine 1998 world temperatures have DECREASED and are thought to be DOWN for the next 23 years.

Nope, now looks like they were up for the last 10 years (1999-2008)

err I think you missed the data on your own charts.........try this place its easier for the "environmentally challenged" to grasp..

Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile -- the list goes on and on.

www.dailytech.com...