The funny thing is, is that it is the same in the UK. The only difference being black people over here emigrated hear for a better life in the late 60s. However their kids have bought into the slave black rage mentality of african americans who in my opinion are justified in a certent extent because of their history in the USA. But these black UK slave wannabees have no excuse at all they just listen to too much rap music.

I must admit i think black people have a chip on their shoulder because of some of their history and they need to get over it. You dont hear me asking the germans to say sorry for the nazis or scandinavians for the vikings who butchered alot of the UK people.

GET OVER IT!

Originally posted by threelions
But these black UK slave wannabees have no excuse at all they just listen to too much rap music.

Funny how music is such a common thread among Africans of the diaspora. The activity of enjoying and being enraptured by music would work better in a indigenous, tribal, social dynamic. What's the point of trying to force ppl into a chronometric existence and western ways when their dna memory cries for tribal music and life. Africa has been forced into modernity in rapid fashion, it would be like transporting ancient Europeans into the 21st century.

I think this is a plain and simple question of the selective breeding proposed earlier - something I have always believed.

Slaves from Africa were selected for a reason - they were big, strong and not particularly intelligent. Likewise, african women were often selected as they were attractive - for obvious reasons - primarily that being that the slave traders were men - often native african men as they were the people who captured the slaves.

I don't think it is about black men having more testosterone as a race - but perhaps this is true in the microcosm of the USA. The African American population is very different in characteristics to the populations of African nations. It was selectively bred for certain characteristics and has existed in isolation from africa for at least 200 years.

An example is if you look at the population of any country where you see the black population descending directly from enslaved peoples - the US, the Caribbean, black populations in places like Brazil - the black populations here are have a dramatically higher occurrence of large, physically strong males and attractive females when compared to native african populations in continental africa which generally has a populations with much more varied characteristics.

Look at the coloured immigrant populations in the UK. Here the black segment of society does not come from slavery and there is a roughly equal distribution of africans and west indians. Both display HUGELY different physical characteristics with the west indians being physically bigger, stronger and if violent crime rates are anything to go by, much more aggressive.

I think this kind of evidence is irrefutable - the question is - if these traits are bred into a population - how do you deal with them. If one concludes that african americans are prone to heightened aggression and violent episodes when compared to other ethnic groups making up the population, it stands to reason that this will be reflected in the population of the penal system.

I agree that there has in the past been a lot of prejudice in this system, but I think even stripping that away looking at the number of complaints and charges pressed by plaintive and not law enforcement (remembering that now and in history most violent crime is intra-race not inter-race thus removing racial prejudice from the equation) - one still sees a heightened incidence of violence with the blacks.

How do we deal with this issue. No one should be thinking along the lines of different laws for different races - what is the answer. I think someone is almost justified in for instance - not employing someone with such traits in a job where they could be a risk (for instance - a police or prison officer (or president) where they could loose their rag) - but this would be highly racist and clearly unacceptable.

Whether you agree with this analysis or not - and that is upto you - the hypothetical question of how to deal with an issue where a negative characteristic unique to one racial group becomes apparent and must be dealt with for the sake of the common good - is an interesting one.

Originally posted by Dutty_Rag
I think this is a plain and simple question of the selective breeding proposed earlier - something I have always believed.

Slaves from Africa were selected for a reason - they were big, strong and not particularly intelligent. Likewise, african women were often selected as they were attractive - for obvious reasons - primarily that being that the slave traders were men - often native african men as they were the people who captured the slaves.

I don't think it is about black men having more testosterone as a race - but perhaps this is true in the microcosm of the USA. The African American population is very different in characteristics to the populations of African nations. It was selectively bred for certain characteristics and has existed in isolation from africa for at least 200 years.

An example is if you look at the population of any country where you see the black population descending directly from enslaved peoples - the US, the Caribbean, black populations in places like Brazil - the black populations here are have a dramatically higher occurrence of large, physically strong males and attractive females when compared to native african populations in continental africa which generally has a populations with much more varied characteristics.

Look at the coloured immigrant populations in the UK. Here the black segment of society does not come from slavery and there is a roughly equal distribution of africans and west indians. Both display HUGELY different physical characteristics with the west indians being physically bigger, stronger and if violent crime rates are anything to go by, much more aggressive.

I think this kind of evidence is irrefutable - the question is - if these traits are bred into a population - how do you deal with them. If one concludes that african americans are prone to heightened aggression and violent episodes when compared to other ethnic groups making up the population, it stands to reason that this will be reflected in the population of the penal system.

I agree that there has in the past been a lot of prejudice in this system, but I think even stripping that away looking at the number of complaints and charges pressed by plaintive and not law enforcement (remembering that now and in history most violent crime is intra-race not inter-race thus removing racial prejudice from the equation) - one still sees a heightened incidence of violence with the blacks.

How do we deal with this issue. No one should be thinking along the lines of different laws for different races - what is the answer. I think someone is almost justified in for instance - not employing someone with such traits in a job where they could be a risk (for instance - a police or prison officer (or president) where they could loose their rag) - but this would be highly racist and clearly unacceptable.

Whether you agree with this analysis or not - and that is upto you - the hypothetical question of how to deal with an issue where a negative characteristic unique to one racial group becomes apparent and must be dealt with for the sake of the common good - is an interesting one.

Well if you want to keep it real, what you're saying is pretty much right. The traders picked the biggest and strongest to be brought to the U.S..

So now who do we blame it on? The buyers or the sellers? Which came first?

You all are the dumbest people ever. You are illuminati mind controlled slaves if you think we are any different. This is what keeps us separate and keeps us from banding together against the elite. You are blind unthinking and unquestioning sheep that deserve your deaths at the hands of the NWO. Wait let me speak in a language that you understand BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!

Originally posted by threelions
The funny thing is, is that it is the same in the UK. The only difference being black people over here emigrated hear for a better life in the late 60s. However their kids have bought into the slave black rage mentality of african americans who in my opinion are justified in a certent extent because of their history in the USA. But these black UK slave wannabees have no excuse at all they just listen to too much rap music.

I must admit i think black people have a chip on their shoulder because of some of their history and they need to get over it. You dont hear me asking the germans to say sorry for the nazis or scandinavians for the vikings who butchered alot of the UK people.

GET OVER IT!

I'm British, Black and I have NO idea what you have based this on. I don't accept your profiling as the truth and I know of NOT ONE black person personally who holds a grudge against whites or any one else for slavery. I don't think that a black criminal, thinks "oh snip, let's get whitey back for slavery" before he/she commits a crime, this is utter garbage!

What we are seeing in the UK with the youth is an equal spread of races involved in crime and we don't have a particular problem with ONE race.

Seriously, your comments are better suited to the national front forums rather than ATS.

I am reporting your post because the description you used for black people is VERY racist in my opinion, especially when you said "slave black rage mentality", I mean, black rage mentality? Seriously?

You are a disgrace to OUR country and your points of view DO NOT reflect anything but the view of a small minority of people living in absolute fear and xenophobia. Wake up my friend, it's the 21st century!

You dont hear me asking the germans to say sorry for the nazis

No I didn't hear you say that, but I know MANY people at home in the UK that still go on about it and I agree with you on this point alone.

NOTE TO ALL:

The ATS Terms & Conditions has no room to protect this community from threads like this. They start out innocent enough, and before you know it we have members showing their true colours and feelings regarding race issues and just one of those comments can make a seemingly good day turn into a bad one for people like me.

IMHO, I don't think topics like this belong on ATS. There are PLENTY of discussions taking place on the internet regarding these issues on alternative websites.

As a black person it upsets me to come here in search of open minded people and alternative topics, just to read another generic discussion that is full of hate and enough BS to fertilise an entire farm.

Can WE move on now?


[edit on 10-12-2008 by IceColdPro]

Allright then do you want me to post the demographics of the UK jails and really show you up then.
The fact of the matter is that Black people in the UK make up quite a small minority however in prisons they are over represented comparative to their population.
You can call me racist all you like, what is racist about the truth i am going off official statistics where are your statistics.
Do you want me to post them yes or no.
And secondly how am i a racist, i have never discriminated against anybody because of the colour of their skin.

[edit on 10-12-2008 by threelions]

When people quote prison populations they are being incredibly obtuse -

The fact is that the black community make up the largest proportion of prison inmates relative to the percentage they make up of the population.

I.e. - the black community have the largest percentage of their total population behind bars. That is a fact unfortunately in almost every modern multi ethnic country, from South Africa to France.

Indeed in the UK and US, the ratio of blacks in jail to out of jail is almost three times that of any other definable ethnic group.

That IS anomalous, and warrants investigation.

To the person who started quoting ATS rules and citing this thread as racist - I think you need to cool off, read a little more and perhaps finish school before posting again.

The people who throw the rattle out of the pram and start screaming 'racism' every time someone references anything to do with a 'race' in a way which may reflect negatively on a minority are a cancer on any society.

The fact is, we are told people are equal all of our lives - to some extent this is true - we are all human, of similar if not the same intelligence, we have the same capacities to learn - we are the same species. But just as there are differences between a poodle and a sheep dog - there are obvious differences between populations that have evolved in similar isolation. I might add that by no means is this limited to being black or white.

'I don't know one black person who holds a grudge against white people' is the kind of comment equivalent to saying - 'I'm not racist cos I have a black friend, but I hate the rest of them'.

On ATS keep discussions limited to facts.

We have quoted factual prison populations and ratios in this thread.

It is a FACT that on average an African American male with an ideal BMI weighs significantly more than his white counterpart of the same age AND this weight is over 10 times more likely to be lean muscle mass.

Black males are (please get statistic) more likely to contract and die from prostate cancer than a white male (this is the highest incidence amongst any group).

These point to a higher concentration of testosterone among black males. Which is consistent with medical evidence although NO wide ranging study has been completed.

To the person who suggested they had never seen a black person with a grudge against white people - this is rather short sighted.

Again, I don't believe this to be a racist thread - or the poster who made the comment intended this to be malicious.

I have lived in a number of countries including the US and UK - and Ghana. One of the places where people were least concerned with slavery - and blaming any modern issues on it was actually Ghana itself - a former slave colony!

In a recent UK survey (Home Office) - 90 - YES thats 90% of UK blacks on the electoral role who completed the questionnaires sent to them in black history month said that a) the legacy of slavery was directly responsible for many of the problems unique to the modern black community - and in another part of the questionnaire that b) they felt owed something in compensation for the displacement of their ancestors by the slave trade.

This is amazing seeing as only around 40% of the UK's black (african or west indian) population is in anyway descended from enslaved blacks. The rest hail directly from former colonies - FREE colonies - in continental Africa.

That's almost like me blaming my son's bad behaviour at school on the slave trade - i.e. It has NOTHING to do with me - or THEM. Yet they believe it as it is the constant line they are FED by authorities within and without their own communities who want to SHIFT RESPONSIBILITY.

Like it or not. FACTS show that a good 50% of violent crime (similar figures in both the US and UK) is committed by black males - considering that they make up a small fraction of the population, this is an outrageous figure.

This thread seeks an explanation.

Also IceCold -

In your thread you suggest that poverty is an explanation - indeed it is and generally 95% of our prison population can be described as suffering or having suffered some degree of poverty - this is the same amongst white and black so afraid that it does nothing to explain why there are more black men in jail than those of other races.

I particularly liked the way you stated statistics on poverty and then wrote a conclusion underneath that was in no way supported by them.

You claim Pakistanis and Bangladeshis have the highest rates of poverty - when indeed it is these same races that have the smallest occurrence in the prison populations in the UK and US (relative to their populations).

Which I'd say is the exact opposite of your point!

Stop claiming racism - racism - racism.

No one is suggesting this is down to skin colour - there are more differences between white, black, asian etc than skin colour.

And no one is even saying this is an 'African' thing - indeed - it seems to be a phenomena amongst populations that have descended directly from enslaved ancestors. THIS is the common link between black males in the prison population of western countries.

Instead of quoting irrelevant statistics to support unrelated conclusions that you are spouting to support some misguided idea you have formulated in your head NOT based on facts ONLY your personal opinions - start contributing to the WHY. Lets look at reasons why black men descendent from enslaved populations would be 10 times more likely to be violent criminals.

Intelligent discussion backed up with statistics and science pleased

Originally posted by DroolsAlot
Look, im not racist at all. But I wanted to ask this question wich is been bugging me for quite some time about African Americans and crime.

Now im not saying ALL african americans are criminals or anything like that, because clearly there is african american cops, lawyers, doctors etc. But I just looked up statistics on crimes in the us and there is an average of 1 white person per 4 african americans in jail. Not only that, when I drive down the street in my neighborhood, I see black thugs walking down the road, a few mexan thugs every now and then and every once i a while ill see a white thug dude. When I watch stuff on tv about murders and such, the murders are usually caused by african americans on african americans. When you watch Cops, the majority of the videos are concerning african american criminals. When you see documentaries of people in jail, the majority of the people on tv in the cells are black. I guess this is just a big concern for me and what I want to know is why this is the case. Does it go back to slavery days? Or is it because of the rap and hiphop culture that the youth have listened too all their life that raps about how slangin drugs and smakin hoes is ok? Please let me know what your thoughts are on this.

Greetings Droolsalot......Very appropriate name....maybe it should be pablum puking PC liberal.....Your voicing a statistical fact when you speak of the disproportionate number of violent crimes committed by blacks with respect to whites....51 percent of violent crimes are committed by 15 percent of the entire population,the blacks represent 15 percent of the entire population....There is no need to preface your statement with an apology....It is obvious that not all blacks a criminals and at the same time there are very few African Americans, the majority of blacks in this country are native born american with no tracable ancestry to africa....They are Just plain Americans....

Originally posted by Dutty_Rag
Like it or not. FACTS show that a good 50% of violent crime (similar figures in both the US and UK) is committed by black males - considering that they make up a small fraction of the population, this is an outrageous figure.

Didn't you open up your post by saying: "When people quote prison populations they are being incredibly obtuse", then you have turned around and done exactly that to prove your point.

I don't know about the US, however, I would like to know where you can show me that 50% of all violent crimes taking place in the UK are committed by Blacks?

Indeed in the UK and US, the ratio of blacks in jail to out of jail is almost three times that of any other definable ethnic group.

I'm British and according to the home office statistics I posted above, this claim is simply false for the UK. The black population in the UK is roughly 7% of the total population with 1 in 10 people in prison being black.

Can I ask you a question, what benefit do YOU get out of debating this? As I said before, the argument is irrelevant and doesn't prove anything. Crime is relevant to poverty according to the most recent studies and not to do with genetics.



[edit on 10-12-2008 by IceColdPro]

Originally posted by Dutty_Rag
In your thread you suggest that poverty is an explanation - indeed it is and generally 95% of our prison population can be described as suffering or having suffered some degree of poverty - this is the same amongst white and black so afraid that it does nothing to explain why there are more black men in jail than those of other races.

Did you bother to read through the sources that I quoted? I took them from official government websites like the "Home Office".

Unfortunately in the UK blacks DO NOT make up the majority of prison inmates, they make up approximately 1 in 10 of all prisoners - FACT (backed up by proof) Whites in the UK make up the overall higher percentage of prisoners.

I particularly liked the way you stated statistics on poverty and then wrote a conclusion underneath that was in no way supported by them.

larger proportion of the TOTAL population through consensus is Asian? I guess not.

You claim Pakistanis and Bangladeshis have the highest rates of poverty - when indeed it is these same races that have the smallest occurrence in the prison populations in the UK and US (relative to their populations).

How so? You clearly DON'T UNDERSTAND how to interpret statistical data for you to be so confused by what I posted.

If Bangladeshi's make up the highest rate of poverty, don't you think you should consider HOW MANY Bangladeshi's live in the UK? If 1% of the population is Bangladeshi and 65% of Bangladeshi's are living in Poverty, do you think that the ratio is going to be higher than blacks if there are less Bangladeshi's in the UK compared to blacks? I think it is YOU who needs to go back to school my friend!

No one is suggesting this is down to skin colour - there are more differences between white, black, asian etc than skin colour.

Are you blind? or simply stupid? Please tell me as I want to know how it is that you have OVERLOOKED the several threads that proclaim that this is simply a trait of being black and black culture.

Instead of quoting irrelevant statistics to support unrelated conclusions that you are spouting to support some misguided idea you have formulated in your head NOT based on facts ONLY your personal opinions

This made me laugh and shows your true intellect. I posted OFFICIAL statistics taken by the government and posted on a government website. I posted the statistics on request by the user I was replying to who was using these very statistics to back up his opinion.

Your entire post made me laugh, you clearly didn't visit any of the links I posted or you would see how IGNORANT you are being.

Good day.