Caution Satanic Discussion: I Watched this

movie on youtube (no I will not post the link) it dealt in Satans Secrets...
and what needs discussion is - without christianity would there be a Satan and therefore Satan must be Christian.

wow, huh... deep thought went into that reality leap... what do you think of that... it is one hell of a secret... the more you run to closer you come.
demons listen to Jesus Christ he is a higher demon... well thats what I got out of it .... what do you think of this stuff... its like this stuff is about GODS beings of greater existance than ours, one of good and one of evil - but who says GOD is good. and Satan is evil. whats good about this good god? and if one exists does it mean they both exist..? so one needs the other. like the night needs the light.


[edit on 1-12-2008 by BornPatriot]

Mod Edit: All Caps Title

[edit on 1-12-2008 by MemoryShock]

reply to post by BornPatriot


Just post the link.... If you don't its pretty hard to have a discussion on your topic because nobody knows exactly what you saw.

Unless the link could some how suck my soul out of my body or cause an earthquake in early December, post away

sorry, but I can tell you I saw it on YouTube and the topic I was researching was Satans Secrets. sorry, but I can not facilitate.

There is no such a movie, this is why he won't post link to the video. This is his own fantasy and he wants to try it here on ATS. But you can easily prove me wrong by posting the link

Anyway, why can't people understand that all these figures from Jesus to Satan lives within our hearts, not in objective reality.

reply to post by BornPatriot


you can't post the link because the video you claim to saw don't exist, right? well, whatever, i don't really care for it is all vanity.

Lame dude...we are all adults here we can handle a video...post the link

reply to post by BornPatriot

you should post the link, people will be more willing to contribute if we see the same video.
but anyway: i have some strange ideas when it comes to this, they are not solutions however, only more questions.
1.did God have a choice when it came to creating the Universe?
2.did he know Satan would betray him? or is satan just another side to God? are they the same entity, and not separate?
3.What would there be to judge good next to, with no evil? Is there such a thing as "good" unless there is an "evil"?
4.do we have a hand in creating God? do Gods die out after a culture stops worshiping them? and do new Gods come into being because we create them out of belief?
i certainly don't know the answers, but i don't believe in Satan as a separate being. I think that for God to exist, then he must be everything. That includes Lucifer. He was created by God, and would likewise have some of the same force within him. I cannot understand a God who creates something that goes contrary to the plan, i mean...it's GOD, how would the creator of the universe make such a fundamental mistake, unless he had no choice. There is a train of thought that suggests that when creation was set into motion, God wasn't exactly at the controls as much as some think, and that he creates out of necesity. he is God, he must create to be, and therefore when a balance was needed to the "good" he created evil out of neccesity. It is very though provoking. i look forward to reading this more.

Originally posted by BornPatriot
sorry, but I can tell you I saw it on YouTube and the topic I was researching was Satans Secrets. sorry, but I can not facilitate.

so you don't have access to your history that you watched today?

click where it says favorites and click on history, then go to the youtube clips you watched and post the link.

reply to post by BornPatriot


Dear OP,

Please send me my lost time I wasted because without a link this thread should be closed.

Signed,

Management

I'm not trying to be mean, I would just like some meat to go with the plate you have offered up. If your all out of meat then please close up the shop and hang the closed sign so I know to go to the next good looking item

i have the same ideals and like to keep an open mind,
who is to say satan in in fact evil , when he brought knowledge to man,
we hunger for knowledge, "god" sought to with hold information, wouldnt that make him bad?


there are many questions. that simply cannot be answered , but i for one like tangible evidence and please dont waste my time with this thread , so that i can watch this stupid video and make an opinion about it.

Blind faith in "insert deity of choice here" or follow the trail of crumbs directly to your death trap. That is life and religion in sum. No matter how you look at it you can never prove that a religion is true since all the proof could come directly from "Satan" or whatever evil force you believe in. If Satan is the ultimate deceiver and yearns to be God what is keeping any of us from falling right into his diabolical plan. This is why I do not like religions, because those who follow them claim to know something yet none of them have passed this test of proof from an undeniable god. I really don't think it matters very much though, it's just the way some people are. Some people need to believe and follow something whether it is by blind faith or so called "facts" whether it be religion or science and other people don't.

Originally posted by BornPatriot
movie on youtube (no I will not post the link) it dealt in Satans Secrets...
and what needs discussion is - without christianity would there be a Satan and therefore Satan must be Christian.

Satan does not have to be a christian to believe in the crusifiction and ressurection of Christ, A christian accepts Jesus died for their sins and asks Jesus for forgiveness.
Satan knows the game plan and understands it.
A football umpire knows all the rules and is on the field, but it does not make him a player.

so to make it simple.
God owns all the teams.
Jesus coaches some and satan coaches the others, the game is to see who ends up with the most wins in the end.

of course you have water boys doing their bit as well (the clergy and spirits)

reply to post by LetsPlayFeedTheGater

who is to say satan in in fact evil , when he brought knowledge to man

IIRC, there's certain sects of Luciferianism which reject the accusations of being satanists, and instead prefer to venerate the more positive aspects of the Lucifer character. The "light bearer", the Prometheus, the one who brings the light of knowledge to mankind. He is a villain only because he disobeyed God and took pity on mankind.

In a way, it's similar to the Judas story - wherein Judas was not really a despicable traitor, but rather perhaps Jesus's most loyal and devout disciple. He was the only one who could do what needed to be done, to turn his friend and mentor Christ over to the High Priests for his execution. Without this betrayal, and without Christ's sacrifice, salvation apparently would not have been possible. In the story, it appears to be a very tough ordeal for Judas - as when it's complete he throws his 30 pieces of silver at the altar and hangs himself.

Not that I believe any of it, but the idea of these tragic vilified hero figures do hold a certain romantic appeal which I like.

[edit on 1-12-2008 by Lasheic]

from yourdictionary dot com:

christian (kris′c̸hən, -tyən)

1 a person professing belief in Jesus as the Christ, or in the religion based on the teachings of Jesus

So, if satan can be a person, and if Jesus was the Christ, then it stands to reason that literally speaking he/she/it would be a Christian.

Originally posted by Lasheic
reply to post by LetsPlayFeedTheGater

 

who is to say satan in in fact evil , when he brought knowledge to man

IIRC, there's certain sects of Luciferianism which reject the accusations of being satanists, and instead prefer to venerate the more positive aspects of the Lucifer character. The "light bearer", the Prometheus, the one who brings the light of knowledge to mankind. He is a villain only because he disobeyed God and took pity on mankind.

Sounds like Jesus himself. Jesus did shared knowledge to wise people. He even desired mankind to 'seek the truth'.

If someone will say he withheld knowledge it's because most people will never understand his teachings because they're full of this world(materialism), desire for fame, glory.

Originally posted by BornPatriot
...demons listen to Jesus Christ he is a higher demon... well thats what I got out of it ....

The Pharisees used this exact same line against Jesus. He responded by saying that a house divided against itself cannot stand. (I.e., why would he cast out demons, if he did so by the power of the devil?)

Satan was around long before Jesus, therefore long before Christianity. Don't believe me, read the older, Jewish half of your bible.

[edit on 2-12-2008 by angel of lightangelo]

reply to post by bronco73


That might be the loosest, most incomplete definition of Christianity I've ever seen.

The OP question is ridiculous because Lucifer wasn't a human being made in God's image. Jesus came to save man, not to save angels. While it may be true that the modern concept of Satan is one which is rooted in New Testament teachings, the concept of Lucifer and his fall from Heaven after being driven out by the archangels is Old Testament, Judaic teaching.

It fails miserably to try to analyze Christianity or the devil using scientific or even logical arguments. I realize by saying that I'm almost assured that some thin minded individual who feels threatened by people following CHrist will wade in here and hoot and holler like an ape while pointing at the fact that I just admitted that there isn't a scientific or logical basis by which I believe in Christ. Unfortunately, those who do that fail to grasp one very tiny fact... we're not God, nor do we know what God knows. Imagine, if you will, God is a remarkable scholar with a pHd in every subject. (not trying to blaspheme here, so please take no offense. Just making a very rudimentary and childish comparison) now we come in, a group of retarded kindergarteners. There is no possible way that we could even pretend to understand even a miniscule fraction of what God knows and what He is.

I think this same form of reasoning can be applied to not just the angels, but even to our own ancestors from the days of the Old Testament. Somewhere along the line we've forgotten too much and strayed too far. As a result we've managed to waste a ridiculous amount of our time postulating inane questions like "If God is omnipotent, can He create a stone so massive not even He can move it?" I do not know the answer to that question, but I do know one thing, you do not have to believe in God for God to continue existing... but you better believe that you're in world of hurt if God was to ever stop belieiving that you exist.

As far as the nature of Satan goes, it's a matter of jealousy. The angels spent their time in the presence of and worshipping God. They saw their reward daily. Then God created man and man was under a different pretense than the angels were. Some of the angels, lead by Lucifer, percieved a snub in the fact that man had not only free will, but also had a tangible reward at the end of their mortal lives. It was quite shortsighted, if you really think about it. It would be like living your life as an extremely wealthy man and then being jealous of a homeless man who wins the lottery on his last day of life. There is no way for any of us to know why Lucifer rebelled or why he felt that hatred of mankind was worth throwing away his place in the presence of God. It is even more mysterious that he knew from the beginning that he can never directly prevail against God, so why would he even attempt it? (an even bigger question, which very much involves what I said earlier about how unadvanced our thought is compared to God's surrounds the fact that God knew Lucifer would turn on him before there even was a Lucifer... He knew man would stumble and fall... He knew we'd commit acts that would cause Him great suffering inside and hurt Him, yet He still created us and gave us free will despite that.)

Any attempt to position Christ and Satan as brothers or as equal opposites is ridiculous. Christ was before mankind ever was created. Jesus was (and is) the Living Word. He is a part of the Triunal God. I suppose in that regard there would be no Satan if there was no Christ, because He created them all. As for the "lesser demons listen to Jesus" please. Jesus is not a demon. Jesus is God, as such all creation listens to Him. Free will allows us to make our own decisions, but our souls listen to Him when He speaks. Demons do not have free will.

Originally posted by sir_chancealot

Originally posted by BornPatriot
...demons listen to Jesus Christ he is a higher demon... well thats what I got out of it ....

The Pharisees used this exact same line against Jesus. He responded by saying that a house divided against itself cannot stand. (I.e., why would he cast out demons, if he did so by the power of the devil?)

Our government actually once hired bad elements of the society to terrorize the capital to force us into adopting Martial Law and ultimately, dictatorship (Philippines, '70's) until the people decided to overthrow the president in 1986.

The historic Roman empire used the same tactic to grant more powers to the government.

I don't find that verse in the Bible very convincing unless the demons themselves are bound by incorrigible, universal laws and can't cast each other out or voluntarily leave a person's body, as if just acting things out. You know what I mean, pretending they were cast out by supernatural powers but they just simply leaving the persons body as if part of a script.

[edit on 2-12-2008 by ahnggk]

Did I somehow miss something and older religions that tell the same stories of the same Satan that are much older than Christianity have gone away? Do Muslims and Jews stories about Satan not count? Are there only two choices now? Christianity or nothing? When did this happen?