Originally posted by gordonwest
There should be a world nude day. Where EVERYBODY is naked for one day! That should keep everybody happy.

I'm sure that would cause armageddon. Could you imagine? It wouldn't just be hotties like me but the 500lbs mammoths rolling along the streets blinding people with their, ewness. And of course all the cars getting in to accidents as men get distracted, or women, by us hotties lol. But anyways, starred and flagged for you Grover, this is a great point! Especially the one about Spears. But the shortest ever was divorced before they were officially married! Their marriage certificate hadn't been signed by a judge yet.

Has THIS idea been covered yet? (and please feel free to flame if it has...)

The mere notion of 'marriage' being between 'one man and one woman', and that it was "ordained by god" is patently ludricrous.

It is a Human invention....nothing more, nothing less.

What was ONCE a system of transfering property between families ("marriage") has evolved into what we see today (in America, at least) as an Industry....a business, involved in making what is supposed to be a 'sacred' occasion into a business opportunity -- for those who provide the "service"...

Not that I, nor anyone else, should deprive an entrepeneur of an opportunity to make a profit....but the 'marriage industry' is as shallow as the 'fashion industry', or the 'make-up industry'....they are inter-twined.

The far-right wing factions, the 'conservatives' here in the USA wish to claim their moral foundations based on the "sanctity of marriage"!!! This, clever phrase is supposed to inflame their base, to oppose basic Human rights of otherwise loving couples, whilst these 'sanctimonious' marriages end in roughly 50% failure.....

Well, the reality of marriage is this: IF you so choose, you may opt for a religious ceremony. Most straight couples do...and yet, there's that pesky divorce rate....hmmmmm.

If, on the otherhand, you simply wish to enjoy some of the legal benefits of a marriage, but without all the religious overtones, well, it seems a 'man and a woman' have that same right. Looks like, regardless of the ceremony involved, even if it's not religious, those to people get rights not afforded to a same-sex couple, even though they might all be 'married' by the same Justice of the Peace, in a civil ceremony.

So much for 'Equal Protection under the Law' as provided by....ummmm...the Constitution!!!!!!

Back to the legal implications of marriage....perhaps it's time to change THOSE laws....maybe our focus is distorted.

I am personally familiar with a man and a woman who met, fell in love, and decided to NOT marry because each had previously been in a failed marriage. They lived together for nearly two decades...but, realizing that certain laws of the land would be easier to navigate, they decided to officially 'marry' before one of them died. I was there to witness a very non-religious 'marriage' on a beach in Florida. It was simple, did not need a $50,000 budget, but since it was 'one man and one woman' there was no controversy.

Why can't two men, or two women, be afforded the same dignity????

you know what? this post pisses me off. Saying its "un american" ... this country has as many gays as any other country.. and there are probably more people who dont mind gays then ones who do.

you just dont realize the progress america has made... almost EVERY person i meet is bi sexual or gay. I have lived in small towns, medium sized towns, and huge cities... and in every place i find many of them, and they are wonderful. stop bashing them. If it doesnt concern you and your life, dont worry about their lives.

im just tired of hearing all this crap about gays. its everywhere and im so over it, and everyone else needs to get over it too and move on. gays exist. so what.

When we take ourselves so seriously that we lose our humor something is wrong.

I can say that as a bisexual male the whole "gay thing" bores me to tears, I have said that before... so many problems gays face is because of the in your face nature of some gays... personally unless I am invited I really don't care what you do in bed or with what. I am far more than my sexuality and to define yourself by something so ultimately transient is well shallow in my book.

As a bisexual man the only discrimination I have ever felt (and I have never been either in the closet or in your face about it) is from gay men. Many seem to take affront at bisexuality. But... in my opinion if we as a society stopped basically forcing people to choose between being straight or gay far more I think would define themselves as bisexual instead.

Still I understand that when some group, be them blacks, American Indian or gay (or whatnot) feels themselves under assault and marginalized they often exaggerate the very things that make them different. The strategy is essentially to be so whatever that people have no choice but to see you and confront their own opinions and prejudices about you. Its polarizing and can often blow up in your face... but I see the point.

I hope we can reach the point where race, religion or sexual preference are no longer considered when judging a person's character.

[edit on 3-12-2008 by grover]

Again very well put,its a pleasure to not get flamed for asking a question.I know straights do anel sex but it does not make it natural,that was my point.

The comment you made about some gay men finding anel sex repulsive was what I was looking for.I just wanted to hear it from someone who seems to have reasoning and common sences,but then again a writer would have those traits.

Thanks again for helping with this,when I don't understand something I ask and most take it as a put down and start flameing,insecurities I guess.

Originally posted by grover

Originally posted by rightwingnut
I think counseling for the mental problem would have been nicer

For the gays or funnymentalists opposing gays? I suggest the latter.

I don't think that you are defensive about being offered help. Negative medical facts, certainly should be answered with aide. And there are a lot of them. If you were able to understand why some humans have an alternate life style you would offer them help. The basis for those people being of some alternate sex is going to determine how well they cope with other problems.
Alternate sex does not, at least not yet, discount you from being human. This is what I gain from any manner of protest from that community. They'd like to be treated equally. I would offer a human well medical care. Not laughter.

You see you assume that it is a problem for other people to have as you call it an alternative lifestyle and/or sex... but you see... that is your problem not theirs. You have no right thinking that you can "cure" "save" or "heal" anyone different than you... its a bogus attitude and a bogus mentality.

People who have problems with other peoples lifestyles or sexuality usually have problems with theirs.

In the long run all we can hope for is to heal ourselves... you cannot do it for another person.

What is in the heart is all that matters.

I have known people who call themselves Christian, who go to church daily, who can quote the Bible verbatim yet haven't a speck of love in their hearts... no charity... no compassion... no mercy.

Yet they count themselves saved and will tell you so.

I have known people who call themselves atheists and who work non-stop at the betterment of mankind... who are Christian in act, not name.

I have known straight couples who are toxic to each other and whoever gets near them... and I have pitied their children and marvel that they survived.

I have seen gay couples, one dying from AIDS the other suffering from it wash each others sores, clean each others soiled clothes and bedding and generally caring for each other with their dying breaths...

... and I have seen straight couples abandon each other at the first hint.

I knew a gay man who died (not from AIDS though that does not matter) and his so-called good Christian parents refused to associate with him at all even in death to the point of refusing granting his lover permission to bury him...

... and I have seen that lover in tears before a judge begging him to be granted the right to lay his friend to rest so that he would not be buried unmarked in a potters field.

I have seen a young person demand of their mother why she didn't get an abortion and I have seen gay couples so full of love they could have raised a whole orphanage of children with love to spare denied the right.

There may be no justice in the world but there is love and that is enough...

What is in the heart is all that matters...

and no one has the right to gainsay that.

[edit on 4-12-2008 by grover]

This is another nice thread ^Grover!

I think you will find that most of the gays have the in your face sarcastic attitude is when you feel you are abandoned by family religion and friends that is what you have to do to survive or fall apart. Sometimes flaunting being gay is only a mechanism of shock and awe to show those that hate that I will be happy anyway despite their worst efforts. It is a trap though because it starts blocking people that mean well and do care.


I have not spoken to my parents in 10 years because I was kicked out because I am gay. My mom said I shouldn't have been born. Luckily I found friends gay and straight to help me out many times. They became my family. A few years ago I have even more family and a new mom and dad. Happiness can be found and love is a blessing.

Well then... things have gotten heated. But you know what? What is the big deal? A judge, not priest, a JUDGE, signs the certificate making it official. That means it is government, and the government can't discriminate. Now my problem lies in wanting to marry my b/f and g/f... Damn polygamy laws.

I overheard my oldest step-son going on to some high school friends of his about a gay friend of ours calling him a faggot and all.

I backed him into a corner in front of his friends and told him point blank that if I ever heard of him going out fag bashing anybody I would come back home and beat the crap out of him because he was a G. D. n-----!!!

His jaw hit the floor.

I then proceeded to tell him in no uncertain terms that there was no difference between him harassing someone because they were gay and the kids harassing him at school because he was black and Chinese... both were wrong. GOT IT?

He nodded his head that he understood and he never (at least around me) called anyone that again.

I went through both junior and high school being stalked by the jocks and the bullies and beaten to a pulp on an almost daily basis for supposedly being gay... at the time I didn't even know what the word meant.... but in the 60's and early 70's if you weren't a jock you were under a cloud of suspicion and since I was a book worm and artistic I was a prime suspect. This went on for years and not being a fighter, I learned to evade.

It made me who I am though and in a roundabout way I am grateful for it because I recall swearing to myself as I licked my wounds that I would NEVER grow up to be like them. Consequently I matured into an open minded, tolerant and compassionate human being.

When I got out on my own I had to find out for myself whether I was straight or gay and discovered that i enjoyed the charms of both so call myself bisexual.

In the perverse humor of the universe I discovered years later that some of the jocks and bullies who loved beating the crap out of me grew up to be major closet cases.

[edit on 4-12-2008 by grover]