the reason I fear the God of the bible: science

reply to post by reject


[here's a book that was arguably started to be written some 4,000 years ago.]

Remarkably awkward syntax aside, the book you call the bible (O.T.) was in fact written @ 700B.C.

How do we know this?

Scientific examination of some of the places named in the O.T., cities named, weren't around until after 800 BC.

That's @ 2700 years ago, ok? "Abraham" was in fact "A Brahmin", a priest that came out of Ur, Originally a sect from India. Fact. The Indian "Brahmin" even had a female companion. Her name? Same as "Abraham's" wife. Coincidence?

In Ur, there was a myth that was always depicted by small statues of a ram caught in a bramble bush. Sound familiar? "Abraham's" father was a what? Sculptor. Even says so in your "bible."

"Jesus" and his 12 disciples? The 12 months of the year, the astrological table, with The "Son" (Son) in the center.

Now, as far as YOUR GOD, in the 800s B.C., the people you seem to think were worshipers of Yahweh, in point of fact worshiped many gods and goddesses, in fact, pottery shards from the 800s B.C. show Yahweh with HIS BUDDIES, Ba'al, El and Ashtoreth. "Yahweh" WAS depicted as what? A GOLDEN CALF.

Since you want to "talk science", listen up. "Jericho" was a small village less than 10 acres in size. If you included the stables. I once owned a tiny farm larger than this "city."

No walls of Jerichoa, no nothing. Science of archaeology proved it years ago. In fact, there has NEVER BEEN ANY "evidence" turned up in Jerusalem of any "First Temple", in spite of the urgent searching by the occupiers of Palestine to try to justify their theft of other's land. NONE, EVER. No "King David", no "King Solomon", NONE. NO Evidence of any "great kingdom" of David. None.

The "Ark of the Covenant" was indeed found, though: In King Tut's tomb, and you can google it and go see (I'd give you the link, but since you are so scientific, you can surely find it yourself.) Yes, a photo of it was taken, go LOOK, and LEARN. Oh, never mind, here:

www.lexiline.com...

There is The Ark Of The Covenant, and it was Egyptian.

In Jerusalem, was an ancient temple and sect dedicated to "The Queen of Heaven." Not "Yahweh." In fact, your "god" was from the beginning considered a "demi-god", one that loved to stir up trouble. Impish. Fact.

Now go educate yourself, and learn these all came from the Egyptian and Sumerian religions.

Since you like to be so "scientific" and all.

Im sure the men put it in the bible because ummm it happened back then also i dont think they were just 20th century mishaps.

Incest was rife back then and if they had deformed babies would have been known by just observing.

So was fornication big back then also so im sure they slept with many partners back then and came up with illness's that were observed.

They were also very hungry and carnivorous back then and turned to meat with blood and it most likely was raw at times and they probably died from unsanitary conditions.

You do know when you see 50's and 60's movies they werent all goody too shoes in how they portray themselves in movies.

fornication (perverse sex) & promiscuosity -
rules against this were brought about to prevent people from becoming sexual addicts, incestuous, or possibly worse. They also were not ignorant of communicable disease back then and sex requires alot of touching. Since they already knew about said diseases than this could hardly be seen as prophetic or spooky.

"eating of blood & strangled beasts that weren't thoroughly bled"-
rules against this were brought about because back then they believed that consuming blood meant that you were consuming the animals spirit or soul or essence or life force, whatever you prefer. Consuming to much of an animals blood made you an unclean animal. They also knew that consuming too much blood makes you sick. Since they already knew that blood had something bad in it, current discovies of pathogens are hardly surprising or unexpected.

incestual relationships-
the bible has many passages that both support and oppose incest. Deuteronomy 27:22 Leviticus 20:17 Genesis 20:11-12
Genesis 17:15-16 2 the genesis passages support it. Also, Any immediate family of Adam and Eve....sons and daughters would be forced into incest
due to there being no other people around. This is assuming that the bible is correct.

"4,000 years ago...before man had any notions about pathogens, stress hormones, and genomes something or someone was making sure we don't screw ourselves too much..."-

As far as fornication or blood consumption go, the only thing making sure we didnt "screw ourselves" was our common sense, ability to reason, and our ability to determine our own current state of health.
There was no "god" sitting around beaming rules into our heads for later scientific analysis. It was our ability to determine that touching sick people will get us sick, or realizing that the stuff you drank that made your stomach ache is probably best avoided.
People made these scientific observations and then preserved them in print. Since they are in the bible though, somehow it makes them prophetic or precognitive or a gift of future knowledge from "god".

reply to post by meadowfairy


They portrayed themselves in the movies?

I wasn't aware that they had movies back then

Anyways, The Bible is followed to the letter by most Christians, and the way they behave towards non-Christians is just as bad as the way Muslims treat non-Muslims.

All Religious books are bad & should be burnt.

Just because a man dose not follow a book, dose not mean he is a bad person, yet to a Christian, this dose mean he is a bad person. No matter how many people he helps in his life, no matter how many lives he saves, no matter how pure a life he leads, if he dose not carry the gospel, he will go to hell.

If he dose not bow before God in a christian church & go to confession, if he dose not give money to the collection plate, if he dose not sing versus, if he dose not Hail Mary...

He is evil and will burn.

Even if he is the most compassionate, caring loving man in the world. If he is not of the Roman Catholic Church, he is of the Devil. A man who believes in righteousness & justice and in a higher power in his own way, who worships with his deeds instead of bowing to his knees to pray & waste time that can be spent better helping people, is fit only for the fires of hell.

This is why I fear the god of the Bible!! This is why I fear the people who worship the bible.

[edit on 11/30/2008 by Ironclad]

Oh my did christians take your binkys when you were children ?

Look I have been BEATEN,mistreated horribly,mentally abused,raped,molested .... etc by UNBELIEVERS my whole life (only a few supposed Christians were ever mean to me) ,...But do I spend my days and nights starting post after post at how ungodly the heathen have been to me ? NO >>>>

It really is time for yall to learn some forgiveness and move on ..

Hi All,

I've been visiting ATS off and on for several years, lots of interesting topics. But the topic of God vs. no God intrigues me the most.
I am a Christian and I hate seeing "believers" getting beat down by some of the intellectuals here.
This post is not directed to all non-believers, just the ones who ridicule, mock and are just nasty.
You know who you are.
You use big words and science, facts and quotes to establish your viewpoint. You are full of knowledge and wisdom. You are intelligent and possess great writing skills. You can look up facts to support your therories. You have the awnswers to most everything. You indeed have great human wisdom.

I understand all this, we need science, physics, knowledge and wisdom. It has made us who we are. Humans now have more knowledge than we ever had before.
God has given us the tools to become successful, that is what he wants. But He did not want us to forget Him.
Your mistake is relying on flawed human wisdom over God's infinite wisdom.

Using your earthly wisdom, your famous quote is "show me the proof/evidence". Well guess what ? If there was absolute proof it wouldn't be a faith based religion would it. You ask for something we don't have, so you win every time, right ? Wrong !
Your earthly logic and wisdom cannot except somethihg without cold hard facts.

I have a few tidbits of information concerning knowledge and wisdom for you from the most published Book on the planet. Yes, you know what Book I'm talking about !

"For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength." (I Corinthian 1:25)
In other words, If you take the wisest man who ever lived, his knowledge would be foolishness to God.
Does that impress you ? Do you feel a little inadaquate? Where do you fit in when compared to the wisest man that ever lived ?
For all you intellectual non-believers this means all, I repeat ,all of your feeble attemps to dis-credit
or dismiss the Word of God is foolishness, you can't do it !
Although, I'm sure you will continue to try. I will have something to say about that later.

Do you think your earthly facts and science can compare to God's infinite wisdom. He created the universe/multiverse ! What have you created ?
Even Albert Einstein recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. Ah, but the intellectuals who post on this board are smarter than Einstein, aren't you ?

"There is no wisdom, no insight, no plan that can succeed against the Lord." (Proverbs 21:30)
Intellectual non-believers can post on message boards, place ads in newspapers, pay for TV/radio time etc. They are wasting their time, nothing they can do or say will discourage true believers.
If their point is not to discourage believers, then why do they do it ? Maybe they want to impress us with their knowledge. They indeed know much about worldly things, but what about things beyond our planet ? For example, what do they know about the afterlife ?
Christian's know much about the afterlife, all they have is one Book.

"Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?" (I Corinthian 1:20)
Which one you you intellectuals is the next Einstein ? How many books have you published ? How many magazine articles have you written ? All of your talking down to those who may not be as intellectually gifted as you is demeaning. Do you get enjoyment from this ? Does it make you feel big and powerful ?
You seem to get some kind of thrill by picking apart posts that do not agree with your thinking.

"Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such 'wisdom' does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil." (James 3:13-15) I have read several posts here directed toward Christians that seem to be bitter and hateful. Once they have degraded someones faith, they brag (boast) about how smart they are.
Wow, the Bible certainly is insightful, it seems to have a passage for everything.

"The wise will be put to shame; they will be dismayed and trapped. Since they have rejected the word of the Lord, what kind of wisdom do they have?" (Jeremiah 8:9)
True wisdom comes from the Lord. If a person posesses great worldly wisdom, what does he gain. In the end, it will be death. On the other hand, if a person possesses great wisdom from the Lord, what does this man gain ? Life in paradise ! To me, it's a no-brainer !

"The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice." (Proverbs 12:15) This applies to many here. You are right !!! You have the earthly facts and science to prove it. Who would dare argue with you in face of all your earthly facts ? Guess what ? I would wager that God doesn't care about your earthly facts near as much as you do. I'm sure He could take them or leave them.
Seems to me that a wise man would take advice, its just common sence.

"When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom." (Proverbs 11:2) I can also tell from reading alot of the posts here, that some of you are very proud of your accompishments. You can't wait to come here and degrade someones faith and hope. Read the above passage, Disgrace is what you can expect. Plus, its not very nice !

"For wisdom will save you from the ways of wicked men, from men whose words are perverse." (Proverbs 2:12) Man is inherently wicked. The old saying is true "Its hard to be good, it's easy to be bad". It takes God's wisdom and lots of human effort to always do the right thing. You do not have to know the Lord as your personel Savior to do good things, but it helps. We all know good deeds will not get you into Heaven. There is only one way to enter Heaven. You must accept Jesus Christ as your personel Savior to be admitted into the Kingdom of Heaven, it is the only way.

I am not trying to shove my beliefs down anyones throat. I am merely defending the attacks on my faith.
Forcing yours beliefs on someone is wrong. The correct way is to simply tell people about your faith, plant a seed. Once a person has heard the Word, it's up to them how they respond to it.

As I promised, I will leave you with one last thought, the very fact that you are on this board putting down Christians is fulfilling prophetsy.
You see, it states in (2Thess 2:1,3) that in the end times there will be a great "falling away" from the Faith.

When you post here, denying God, you are actually part of the "falling away". The Bible said this would happen.
Thanyou for fulfilling the Word of God.

reply to post by Simplynoone


If I start forgiving and being a lovely person, but still refuse to sleep with a Bible beneath my pillow, or physically join he christian church..

Will I still be a Heathen & will I still go to hell?

Originally posted by Ironclad
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

If I start forgiving and being a lovely person, but still refuse to sleep with a Bible beneath my pillow, or physically join he christian church..

Will I still be a Heathen & will I still go to hell?

If we give your binky back would you then forgive and go on with your heathen life ...if that is what you chose and are happy with that then hey time to forgive and move on with your wonderful life ...what do you think >?
I know yall have way more important injustices that are done to you than someone stealing your binky ten or twenty years ago ..
Seriously how long can one hang onto all the wrongs people have done to you in your past > > ? You cannot even begin to heal until you learn to forgive ........

Besides ...you cannot hold EVERYONE accountable for the wrongs 1 or 2 people did to you .......time to move on and get over it ....dont cha think ?

Originally posted by HIFIGUY

Everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial.

Hitler thought extermination was better as did Saddam.

Do you really know what is better and under what guide?

Peace

i know right from wrong as do many people this has nothing to do with religeon

if religeon is used to seperate people it is wrong

if religeon is used to promote harm it is wrong

the same goes for law or anything else

there is no precurser to atheism to be able to use it to promote harm, we would need some form of docturine for that

p.s. not sure about Sadam but hitler was a devout christian as were most of germanies army

[edit on 30/11/08 by noobfun]

Originally posted by Ironclad

All Religious books are bad & should be burnt.

this i disabre with

so much of our history and art would be near understandable without knwoing the motivations behind it how would you explain the crusades or religeous persecutions so prevalent in our history

we should keep the books for understanding

but not for beleiveing the sillyness found inside

Just because a man dose not follow a book, dose not mean he is a bad person, yet to a Christian, this dose mean he is a bad person. No matter how many people he helps in his life, no matter how many lives he saves, no matter how pure a life he leads, if he dose not carry the gospel, he will go to hell.

If he dose not bow before God in a christian church & go to confession, if he dose not give money to the collection plate, if he dose not sing versus, if he dose not Hail Mary...

He is evil and will burn.

Even if he is the most compassionate, caring loving man in the world. If he is not of the Roman Catholic Church, he is of the Devil. A man who believes in righteousness & justice and in a higher power in his own way, who worships with his deeds instead of bowing to his knees to pray & waste time that can be spent better helping people, is fit only for the fires of hell.

star for you buddy

This is why I fear the god of the Bible!! This is why I fear the people who worship the bible.

i dont fear the impossable i fear the people waving it around as truth and justifying actions no matter how horendous becasue of it

[edit on 30/11/08 by noobfun]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Oh my did christians take your binkys when you were children ?

ohh my was science so difficult to understand you chose not learning as a better option?

here have a bible its called binky and it loves you .. honest

Look I have been BEATEN,mistreated horribly,mentally abused,raped,molested .... etc by UNBELIEVERS my whole life (only a few supposed Christians were ever mean to me) ,...But do I spend my days and nights starting post after post at how ungodly the heathen have been to me ? NO >>>>

It really is time for yall to learn some forgiveness and move on ..

no part of being an unbeleiver proculdes them to these actions hun

they are bad people and they exit in every religeon as well and as statistically athiets are a minority there are more christians like this then atheists

the bible says accepting jesus makes you a christian, so they may be bad people but as long as they accept jesus they are still christians

Besides ...you cannot hold EVERYONE accountable for the wrongs 1 or 2 people did to you .......time to move on and get over it ....dont cha think ?

isnt this exactly what you are doing?

hypocracy the finest form of religeous belief

[edit on 30/11/08 by noobfun]

Hell (eternal burning fire) is not a Biblical concept. "The soul that sinneth, it shall die" Ezekiel 18:20. Dying does not equate with eternal punishing. I believe the punishment or judgement is eternal.

reply to post by reject


It also stated a lot of other nonsensical things which have been completely refuted by rational free enquiry.
As for your title,theres a very good reason you should fear the god of the bible:
www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

the bible is full with stories updated over time (i think the final version is from around 700 AD or so). it's obvious that some of those ideas would be based on true observation and turn out to be sound advice (just like science which - surprise - i also based on observation and reproducibility of the same event in the same conditions). in fact many cultures/religions have these kinds of rules.

but many more things in the bible are just that - stories made up by someone who thought they had a revelation. there are even today people with vivid dreams, hallucinations, various psychological diseases... living alone and isolated with a minimal diet as many of the bible saints did will create all sorts of hallucinations. many of which are described in the bible.

what the bible promoters do is they take a few well known scientifically proven facts and boast the bible was right all this time and science only in the last 100 was able to prove it. but they conveniently leave out the bad parts.

anywho - the bible (just like any other religious book) is constantly misused on every possible occasion by the powerful priests who will make sure the sheeple will do their will (which is not god's will). it's very convenient that god is so powerful to create the world and throw us into hell but just cant be a good accountant and always overspends himself into poverty - thus the sheeple have to provide more donations (have you heard of the e-donations which can now be deducted automatically every week even when you're not in church?)

i'd say leave science and the bible separated. you either believe in the laws of physics or you accept the bible. and if you want to be a good christian just dont go to churches that ask for large amount of money where priests & their families drive the most expensive cars money can buy. and learn to forgive not attack/beat up/kill in the name of jesus.

reply to post by DarkSecret


God $ave$ Je$u$ keep$ blowing it at vega$

dont forget all the tax breaks they get for bieng a religeous setablishment to to help them get nice carparks and better company cars ...... obviously god would agree we need a decent carpark more then .. ya know silly stuff like helping to feed the poor

(note some religeous establishmenst do spend a vast majority of its collections on charity, but the mega churches sure aint one of em)

Originally posted by noobfun
reply to post by DarkSecret

 

God $ave$ Je$u$ keep$ blowing it at vega$

dont forget all the tax breaks they get for bieng a religeous setablishment to to help them get nice carparks and better company cars ...... obviously god would agree we need a decent carpark more then .. ya know silly stuff like helping to feed the poor

(note some religeous establishmenst do spend a vast majority of its collections on charity, but the mega churches sure aint one of em)

it's not bad to give money to the church as long as they use it to preserve the buildings, add medical insurance and a small paycheck to the priest and their family. it's even ok to give money at a church organized even like a lunch or smth like that. i'm OK with that because you need a way to pay the bills.

but those priests who flash their wealth just like jay-Z or some other raper... well what can i say - people believe they can pay for their salvation. and i wont even start with what certain priests did to children for many years and probably still do - and got away with it.

but since this is a "science in the bible thread" i will reiterate my opinion that science and the bible have very little in common and should be kept apart. the bible is smth to be studied privately at home with the family while science smth that you should learn in school for your own good here on earth.

Originally posted by moonrat
The guy described in the bible as God is nothing more than a murdering psychopath.

But he loves you

LOL

Originally posted by moonrat
The guy described in the bible as God is nothing more than a murdering psychopath.

dude....you are a gambling man
you just laid your money down
however i am too
me thinks you might lose this round...


GOD is GOD
for a reason
he EARN IT!

one more thing
WHEN YOURE GOD
YOU do what YOU want
your problem is youre not god
so youre fustrated cuz you dont get your way
too bad GOD is GOD
and if HE WANTS you dead
YOURE DEAD period!

your free to do good or evil. I chose to be nice and kind and my mates respond in that if i project positivly cheerfulness everybody perks up.I chose a Christain church to meet more screwed up folks, than i am lol but my church going buddies are really good folk. I must be blessed to be in thier company.anywayyou can ponder all your life or you can start spending your short time here loving your fellow human beings ,so peace and good l luck ,thay goes for all you posters,cheers!!