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Are you a Christian or a Paulian?
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reply to post by badmedia
Hi,
I don't know if I am yet or not.
Because, previously you have said many things like: How can you enter into the kingdom of heaven without knowing the truth? You can't. Thus why Jesus(truth) goes to the graves first - to raise those who were poor in spirit by showing them the truth.
This statement and others like it have given me the impression that you are thinking of heaven as not applying to this realm that we live in and instead is for those who have passed on, where Jesus goes to the graves to show them the truth and then take them to heaven.
Now, I won't limit God and say that that cannot occur, however, the kingdom of heaven, God's kingdom, is supposed to be here on earth. We are each to bring it here. The more who do could eventually cause a 100th monkey scenario through critical mass tipping the scale and all will receive the gift. And then there is another possibility for if that doesn't occur, but I digress.
As for if the poor in spirit remain poor in spirit after receiving the kingdom of heaven... do those who mourn and have been comforted, still mourn? Or does that stop even though understanding has been given?
Do those who hunger and thirst after righteousness after being filled, do they still desire to remain righteous, or does that stop?
Those who are pure in heart and see God, do they stop being pure in heart afterwards and then no longer see God where ever God might be seen in this realm?
The blessings ... more than one can be received. Each, I believe is addressing a quality of spirit received. Some may not have any knowledge, yet they do know for a fact that God provides for them and is within them. Their quality of spirit may be an unwavering unquestionable faith... the kind that maybe they cannot explain why they are so confident and assured, but nothing can effectively challenge it. And, what's more they don't care if no one else understands. They got it and are thankful for it.
The non-illumined soul is lifted up and given the Holy Spirit to what ever degree they are capable of receiving.
Do the poor in spirit, remain poor in spirit? I think they do, but the word "poor" does not necessarily have the connotation that we might automatically apply to it.
What you mention is one of the reasons for the evil and events, which is to get people seek. Yet, I believe you will agree that many instead of seeking turn angry, and question "how can there be a God, if fill in the blank of what God allows, which then can lead into them becoming an atheist.
Some seek, and can't find answers and give up.
Another scenario is that those who want to be good, but begin to believe that they also have to act evil, dishonest and mean in order to just exist in this world.
No, I don't think that the in your face stuff always makes a person seek, but can still be a reason that causes the seeking.
And, for me personally, it wasn't the evil and the events of the world that caused me to seek specifically. I found myself not understanding God when I had previously considered myself as knowing God when instead I only knew of God albeit on a very personal level.
You lucky stiff! Though, I too wouldn't want it to end, whatever it was.
I was SO in the spirit for so long straight, nearly 3 months, that I literally passed on three times, but I was kept being sent back... and oh, this world was oh so painful to me then. Odd, in a way, to say that it was painful when at the same time it was so full of bliss too, but only when the world did not intrude.
In hindsight and also through some discoveries of what my pre-birth agreements were, I see why I was required to stay. Still, if I had my druthers sometimes, lol, I'd go home permanently instead of just visiting now and then.
Boy, I sure will be glad when this cold is over... I don't understand, again, what you mean. What is the difference? I don't see any, heaven is to be brought to the earth and it is accomplished through such events as you experienced, and by those who worry about nothing, and by all the other many stories that could be told.
Hi,
Aren't you agreeing with me? They are poor in spirit until it is added to them.
I don't know if I am yet or not.
Because, previously you have said many things like: How can you enter into the kingdom of heaven without knowing the truth? You can't. Thus why Jesus(truth) goes to the graves first - to raise those who were poor in spirit by showing them the truth.
This statement and others like it have given me the impression that you are thinking of heaven as not applying to this realm that we live in and instead is for those who have passed on, where Jesus goes to the graves to show them the truth and then take them to heaven.
Now, I won't limit God and say that that cannot occur, however, the kingdom of heaven, God's kingdom, is supposed to be here on earth. We are each to bring it here. The more who do could eventually cause a 100th monkey scenario through critical mass tipping the scale and all will receive the gift. And then there is another possibility for if that doesn't occur, but I digress.
As for if the poor in spirit remain poor in spirit after receiving the kingdom of heaven... do those who mourn and have been comforted, still mourn? Or does that stop even though understanding has been given?
Do those who hunger and thirst after righteousness after being filled, do they still desire to remain righteous, or does that stop?
Those who are pure in heart and see God, do they stop being pure in heart afterwards and then no longer see God where ever God might be seen in this realm?
The blessings ... more than one can be received. Each, I believe is addressing a quality of spirit received. Some may not have any knowledge, yet they do know for a fact that God provides for them and is within them. Their quality of spirit may be an unwavering unquestionable faith... the kind that maybe they cannot explain why they are so confident and assured, but nothing can effectively challenge it. And, what's more they don't care if no one else understands. They got it and are thankful for it.
The non-illumined soul is lifted up and given the Holy Spirit to what ever degree they are capable of receiving.
Do the poor in spirit, remain poor in spirit? I think they do, but the word "poor" does not necessarily have the connotation that we might automatically apply to it.
What makes them look for it? The evil and the events of the world, it just keeps getting more and more apparent and in your face until you can't ignore it. Then you seek and get.
What you mention is one of the reasons for the evil and events, which is to get people seek. Yet, I believe you will agree that many instead of seeking turn angry, and question "how can there be a God, if fill in the blank of what God allows, which then can lead into them becoming an atheist.
Some seek, and can't find answers and give up.
Another scenario is that those who want to be good, but begin to believe that they also have to act evil, dishonest and mean in order to just exist in this world.
No, I don't think that the in your face stuff always makes a person seek, but can still be a reason that causes the seeking.
And, for me personally, it wasn't the evil and the events of the world that caused me to seek specifically. I found myself not understanding God when I had previously considered myself as knowing God when instead I only knew of God albeit on a very personal level.
I was offered the chance to leave.
You lucky stiff! Though, I too wouldn't want it to end, whatever it was.
I was SO in the spirit for so long straight, nearly 3 months, that I literally passed on three times, but I was kept being sent back... and oh, this world was oh so painful to me then. Odd, in a way, to say that it was painful when at the same time it was so full of bliss too, but only when the world did not intrude.
In hindsight and also through some discoveries of what my pre-birth agreements were, I see why I was required to stay. Still, if I had my druthers sometimes, lol, I'd go home permanently instead of just visiting now and then.
So perhaps what you consider it to be added to you and what the kingdom of heaven is "manifested" in this realm is the difference.
Boy, I sure will be glad when this cold is over... I don't understand, again, what you mean. What is the difference? I don't see any, heaven is to be brought to the earth and it is accomplished through such events as you experienced, and by those who worry about nothing, and by all the other many stories that could be told.
reply to post by Christ!
My sincere apologies for not responding previously today to your two posts to me and now I see there is a third.
Mondays are always my busiest day of the week, and it has been almost more than I could do to do my responsibilities today due to this cold.
I just wanted you to know that I'm not ignoring you. I've just run out of steam for right now and hope to address them soon.
My sincere apologies for not responding previously today to your two posts to me and now I see there is a third.
Mondays are always my busiest day of the week, and it has been almost more than I could do to do my responsibilities today due to this cold.
I just wanted you to know that I'm not ignoring you. I've just run out of steam for right now and hope to address them soon.
Originally posted by L.I.B.
Do the poor in spirit, remain poor in spirit? I think they do, but the word "poor" does not necessarily have the connotation that we might automatically apply to it.
... heaven is to be brought to the earth and it is accomplished through such events as you experienced, and by those who worry about nothing, and by all the other many stories that could be told.
"Blessed are the poor in spirit" simply means, blessed are those who are not so enthusiastic about the world anymore. You see, one's entrance into the world is not by birth, but by a spirit of desire to express Christ as many separate wills. In the beginning of time, these wills leave the Kingdom of God like high-spirited stallions, full of wanderlust. After millions of years, the separate wills grow "weary"...one by one...each in his own time...at his own pace. And this is to be "poor in spirit". The "rich" in worldly spirit are content to continue desireing the world. And this desire keeps them in the world. And so long as they remain in the world, they will suffer under the sacrifice of truth.
In this way, the universe of space time and form is manifested by a kind of fanatical faith in fantasy...as if the untrue could be "realized" and made real instead of reality [Christ]. This is the insanity I call "sin": seriously insane notions about reality [Christ].
In this process, children are born because of insanity [sin] which is a strong, almost fanatical desire for the world of falsehood against reality [Christ]. By the time they are teens they have an abundance of "teen spirit" and are "rich" in *faith* in the world and its ways.
At some point, perhaps after many incarnations in the world, the enthusiasm wanes, and a kind of despair or despondency sets in. There is no more optimism about the paths of the world...as they all lead to death. This is a "blessed" time, for it marks a turning point. It is the point at which the prodigal Son turns around and heads back home. It is when we become "weary" of the ways of the world, and "hungry" and "thirsty" for the ways of heaven that we turn the corner, and begin to experience the blessings that meet the returning son of God.
This is simply to put the words of Jesus in the context of the parable of the progigal Son. One must understand that this parable is a parable of the genesis and exodus of the world, just as the crucifixion and resurreciton were a parody of genesis and exodus. In this way, Jesus was a parody of the "alpha" and the "omega" of the world.
You still have much enthusiasm for the world...so much so that you want to bring heaven to the world so that the world can "work". But the world does not work because it is disfunctional from its very inception. The concept of separate identities, unique individuals, special talents...all of this is disfunctional. This is the way of the world. The way of the world is to attempt the impossible: to marry the truth with a lie about the truth. This is the fundamental definition of magic...the attempt to reconcile the irreconcilable...as if the "good" could be reconciled with an opposite ["evil"]. To this end, the yoking of "good and evil" is magic, which manifests the strange world of duality. It begins with a lie, which states that "in the beginning GoD created the heavens and the earth". Rather, there is only Heaven, and earth is a lie. These can never be reconciled. If the laws of Heaven were to be reflected in the world, the universe of time, space and form would collapse, vanish, and pass away. That's how unreconcilable they are. And yet, those who are rich in revolutionary spirit continue to keep calling their universe "reality". And when they put down their arms and turn their swords into plowshares, they will be "poor in spirit", humbly breaking up [plowing, unmaking] what they made.
Christ!
[edit on 30-12-2008 by Christ!]
reply to post by Christ!
Good Morning,
That's a wonderful way of putting it!
I believe that manifested form and all that involves exists not only because we all have an agreement that it does (the fantasy), but also because it's original design was so we could have a playground wherein our consciousness could play and take delight. That this intention we all once knew has been forgotten does not change it's illusory nature.
I also believe that there are worlds where the inhabitants have not forgotten and their world is a delight to be in.
I like how you have worded this.
Yes, and the Father is always looking from afar expecting our return as he never forgot his son even though the son has forgotten the father.
And, all that Jesus went through is a template of what each person must go through also. And, unlike your statement above of begin to experience the blessings that meet the returning son of God, the returned son of God enjoys the fullness of blessings.
As for my wanting to bring heaven to the world, this is not something I am capable of providing... it would be insanity to think so. I am content to move, exist and have my very being in God.
As for it being dysfunctional from it's inception, I think that it was all very good, until the players (adam and eve) tried to hide themselves from God. How crazy was that? Thinking that they could.
Isn't the dysfunction actually the consciousness that says it is separate and doesn't know it really isn't? Isn't the dysfunction this lie of the beast, the carnal animal human unaware of reality? Isn't the dysfunction actually the will that thinks it has the right to impose itself upon another?
We all have an "I am", or a consciousness, just as the fully returned son of God has. Is the fully returned son dysfunctional? Or does he know reality as it truly is?
I believe that the only real thing there is, is Love as expressed by the Christ spirit, all else is not real. Our true nature is this. Not living this true nature is the lie... pretending to be something other than what we each really are.
Why do you think Jesus came?
I believe this world one day will be fully manifested as Heaven, and as such, it will be known that the manifested form is an illusion, but as long as there are those who are fully enmeshed living the lie it is not heaven.
I do agree... the word "create" is an act of imagination. Whereas, the word "make" and "form" is an actuality.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7
What happens to the only thing that is real? The Christ spirit and it's consciousness?
Like oil and water. Yet even oil and water have an emulsifier.
And then what?
[edit on 30-12-2008 by L.I.B.]
Good Morning,
"Blessed are the poor in spirit" simply means, blessed are those who are not so enthusiastic about the world anymore.
That's a wonderful way of putting it!
In this way, the universe of space time and form is manifested by a kind of fanatical faith in fantasy...as if the untrue could be "realized" and made real instead of reality [Christ]. This is the insanity I call "sin": seriously insane notions about reality [Christ].
I believe that manifested form and all that involves exists not only because we all have an agreement that it does (the fantasy), but also because it's original design was so we could have a playground wherein our consciousness could play and take delight. That this intention we all once knew has been forgotten does not change it's illusory nature.
I also believe that there are worlds where the inhabitants have not forgotten and their world is a delight to be in.
In this process, children are born because of insanity [sin] which is a strong, almost fanatical desire for the world of falsehood against reality [Christ]. By the time they are teens they have an abundance of "teen spirit" and are "rich" in *faith* in the world and its ways.
At some point, perhaps after many incarnations in the world, the enthusiasm wanes, and a kind of despair or despondency sets in. There is no more optimism about the paths of the world...as they all lead to death. This is a "blessed" time, for it marks a turning point. It is the point at which the prodigal Son turns around and heads back home. It is when we become "weary" of the ways of the world, and "hungry" and "thirsty" for the ways of heaven that we turn the corner, and begin to experience the blessings that meet the returning son of God.
I like how you have worded this.
This is simply to put the words of Jesus in the context of the parable of the progigal Son. One must understand that this parable is a parable of the genesis and exodus of the world, just as the crucifixion and resurreciton were a parody of genesis and exodus. In this way, Jesus was a parody of the "alpha" and the "omega" of the world.
Yes, and the Father is always looking from afar expecting our return as he never forgot his son even though the son has forgotten the father.
And, all that Jesus went through is a template of what each person must go through also. And, unlike your statement above of begin to experience the blessings that meet the returning son of God, the returned son of God enjoys the fullness of blessings.
You still have much enthusiasm for the world...so much so that you want to bring heaven to the world so that the world can "work". But the world does not work because it is disfunctional from its very inception.
As for my wanting to bring heaven to the world, this is not something I am capable of providing... it would be insanity to think so. I am content to move, exist and have my very being in God.
As for it being dysfunctional from it's inception, I think that it was all very good, until the players (adam and eve) tried to hide themselves from God. How crazy was that? Thinking that they could.
The concept of separate identities, unique individuals, special talents...all of this is disfunctional.
Isn't the dysfunction actually the consciousness that says it is separate and doesn't know it really isn't? Isn't the dysfunction this lie of the beast, the carnal animal human unaware of reality? Isn't the dysfunction actually the will that thinks it has the right to impose itself upon another?
We all have an "I am", or a consciousness, just as the fully returned son of God has. Is the fully returned son dysfunctional? Or does he know reality as it truly is?
This is the way of the world. The way of the world is to attempt the impossible: to marry the truth with a lie about the truth. This is the fundamental definition of magic...the attempt to reconcile the irreconcilable...as if the "good" could be reconciled with an opposite ["evil"].
I believe that the only real thing there is, is Love as expressed by the Christ spirit, all else is not real. Our true nature is this. Not living this true nature is the lie... pretending to be something other than what we each really are.
To this end, the yoking of "good and evil" is magic, which manifests the strange world of duality. It begins with a lie, which states that "in the beginning GoD created the heavens and the earth". Rather, there is only Heaven, and earth is a lie. These can never be reconciled.
Why do you think Jesus came?
I believe this world one day will be fully manifested as Heaven, and as such, it will be known that the manifested form is an illusion, but as long as there are those who are fully enmeshed living the lie it is not heaven.
I do agree... the word "create" is an act of imagination. Whereas, the word "make" and "form" is an actuality.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7
If the laws of Heaven were to be reflected in the world, the universe of time, space and form would collapse, vanish, and pass away.
What happens to the only thing that is real? The Christ spirit and it's consciousness?
That's how unreconcilable they are.
Like oil and water. Yet even oil and water have an emulsifier.
And yet, those who are rich in revolutionary spirit continue to keep calling their universe "reality". And when they put down their arms and turn their swords into plowshares, they will be "poor in spirit", humbly breaking up [plowing, unmaking] what they made.
And then what?
[edit on 30-12-2008 by L.I.B.]
Originally posted by L.I.B.
reply to post by Christ!
Good Morning,
"Blessed are the poor in spirit" simply means, blessed are those who are not so enthusiastic about the world anymore.
That's a wonderful way of putting it!
I believe that manifested form and all that involves exists not only because we all have an agreement that it does (the fantasy), but also because it's original design was so we could have a playground wherein our consciousness could play and take delight. That this intention we all once knew has been forgotten does not change it's illusory nature.
I also believe that there are worlds where the inhabitants have not forgotten and their world is a delight to be in.
You do make a good point here. The prodigal Son leaves as one and expresses as many. So there is indeed a kind of "agreement" between the role players in fantasy. I call this agreement the "old testatment". The old testament is a covert agreemtent to work together to fulfill a fantasy. It is not much different from an agreement between a dominatrix and a submissive to fulfill a fantasy of bondage.
The prodigal Son does expect to add to or increase his joy. As he does so, he makes up laws. The basic law of the universe of the prodigal Son is the law of perception. Perception is not a law of GoD, rather, it is an adaptation of the law of GoD. Perception allows the prodigal Son to see what he wants to see, and to rejoice in what he sees, calling it "good".
But as the old testament plays out, he can see that it brings a lot of conflict, war, confusion, pain and suffering. The old testament is scripted...as in a stage play...and the role players recite their lines flawlessly. The "deja vu" experience is a reminder of this fact. As such, the old testament is mainly scripture about the crucifixion of the prodigal Son. It predicts pain and suffering in so many different ways. And since all the role players are one, it predicts and plays out the crucifixion of the Son of God.
Because the old testament is scripted, it is really about voluntary bondage to the laws of perception and fantasy. When the players are no longer joyful about what they see...no longer rejoice in the crucifixion of the Son of God...then they are ready to exit stage right [righteousness] instead of stage left [wickedness] whereby they keep coming back [reincarnation] to play additional roles.
In this context, "blessed are the poor in spirit" means blessed are those who are no longer inspired by cruelty....blessed are those who no longer rejoice in fantasy...blessed are those who are ready for a new testament.
The new testament is an *overt* agreement to break the old - covert- agreemtent. In this way, the old testament is about lies, and the new testament is about the truth. The old testament begins with a lie, and ends with the truth. The lie is: "In the beginning GoD made the heavens and the earth". The truth is, the prodigal Son left the Kingdom of God and said to himself: "for now, let us confine ourselves to this 'reality'".
The old testament is about covert love. It is about love because it gives to all what they ask. This is the basic law of perception. But what they ask for is not truth, and so, they ask for fantasy. The truth is life, so the fantasy is about death. Not just one death but many. In this way, death is like a paycheck that fantasy role players [sinners] collect on a regular basis [reincarnation].
The truth overtly sets the players free from this kind of bondage game. The truth about the old testament law of perception is this: the prodigal Son has kept his covert agreements flawlessly and perfectly. In this way, none are "guilty". No one has broken the law! When you identify with Christ, you come to understand that you have "kept the law".
...Continued from above.
As you identify with Christ, you come to understand that you were crucified under the "old law" which is the law of perception. The law of perception allows you to see the Son of God as separate individuals, guilty of this that and the other. And guilty, perception allows you to see the Son of God punished in various ways.
The "old law" is a set up...a false witness against the Son of God. So it is a false witness against all that you see. The way it is set up, there is no way anyone can keep the various "laws" you set up to define them as "good". There are many laws, rules and expectations you set up for others to "fulfill". And, as they are unable to fulfill them, they are "guilty", "nuts", "crazy", "fool", "idiot", "sinner", "bad", "evil", "nasty", "perverted", "wicked", "filthy rags", "douche bags", "perpetrator", "son of a bitch", "bastard", "dog", "adulterer", "insane"...ect.
In this way, with so many expectations unfulfilled, and so many rules made to be broken, all are somehow "convicted" under the "old law". But these are false witnesses against the Son of God, that you may see him as guilty, and rejoice. A false witness is paid off to tell a story. The world is a false witness which, under the "old testament" you have paid to tell a story about guilt. It is paid in blood...in the blood of the truth. It needs only the blood of the truth for its wages, that it may "make a living" as a false witness. In this way, the world thrives on the blood of the innocent.
In the new testament, you break the old testament by identifying with Christ. Under the new testament, you can see that you have paid the world to testify against you with your own blood. For as you identify with Christ, you come to see that you are the truth. And the truth is: the old testament is entirely false. It is a lie from its very inception. Nothing about separation is true. And if you see separate individuals, you are still under the old law.
The old law states that separation is the truth, instead of oneness. This is a *judgement*. It is a false judgement, percieved to be true. So the old testament is about judges judging falsely. And by a false judgement, fantasy is percieved to be true and real. A fantasy of non-truth is a fantasy about guilt. And so, by judgement, the Son of God is condemned to death. But death is a false judgement...a misperception...an appearance. It seems real to the extent that perception is judged to be "reality". If you see a brother as a separate entity, a separate body, a separate "light body", a separate anything...you are still judging under the old testament. Separation destroys the oneness of the Son of God, and blinds you his glory.
The belief in separation filters your "sight" through mental filters in consciousness. No matter how lofty the sight may be, it always must fall short of the glory of GoD. So you never see the Son of God as he is. And this is to "destroy" the perfection of Our Father's true creation.
Under the new testament, you agree not to judge anymore. Judgement transforms the Son of God from him Self into self-concepts. Before self-concepts there was no such thing as judgement or judging. It is not an attribute germain to the Kingdom of God. It does not apply, and makes no sense. So it is by judgement that the world of perception arises and thrives. It is by judgement that self-concepts seem to exist. So judgement is the "life-blood" of self-concepts, and when it is drained, the self-concept dies.
The new testament is an agreemtent to judge with the Holy Spirit who comes to save percievers [judges] from their perceptions [false judgements]. As the Holy Spirit judges, he brings judgement to it "last judgement", after which there are no more judgements. And as you come to your last judgement as a self-concept, the concept "dies". This is the death that Jesus showed us to accept willingly.
As you identify with Christ, you come to understand that you were crucified under the "old law" which is the law of perception. The law of perception allows you to see the Son of God as separate individuals, guilty of this that and the other. And guilty, perception allows you to see the Son of God punished in various ways.
The "old law" is a set up...a false witness against the Son of God. So it is a false witness against all that you see. The way it is set up, there is no way anyone can keep the various "laws" you set up to define them as "good". There are many laws, rules and expectations you set up for others to "fulfill". And, as they are unable to fulfill them, they are "guilty", "nuts", "crazy", "fool", "idiot", "sinner", "bad", "evil", "nasty", "perverted", "wicked", "filthy rags", "douche bags", "perpetrator", "son of a bitch", "bastard", "dog", "adulterer", "insane"...ect.
In this way, with so many expectations unfulfilled, and so many rules made to be broken, all are somehow "convicted" under the "old law". But these are false witnesses against the Son of God, that you may see him as guilty, and rejoice. A false witness is paid off to tell a story. The world is a false witness which, under the "old testament" you have paid to tell a story about guilt. It is paid in blood...in the blood of the truth. It needs only the blood of the truth for its wages, that it may "make a living" as a false witness. In this way, the world thrives on the blood of the innocent.
In the new testament, you break the old testament by identifying with Christ. Under the new testament, you can see that you have paid the world to testify against you with your own blood. For as you identify with Christ, you come to see that you are the truth. And the truth is: the old testament is entirely false. It is a lie from its very inception. Nothing about separation is true. And if you see separate individuals, you are still under the old law.
The old law states that separation is the truth, instead of oneness. This is a *judgement*. It is a false judgement, percieved to be true. So the old testament is about judges judging falsely. And by a false judgement, fantasy is percieved to be true and real. A fantasy of non-truth is a fantasy about guilt. And so, by judgement, the Son of God is condemned to death. But death is a false judgement...a misperception...an appearance. It seems real to the extent that perception is judged to be "reality". If you see a brother as a separate entity, a separate body, a separate "light body", a separate anything...you are still judging under the old testament. Separation destroys the oneness of the Son of God, and blinds you his glory.
The belief in separation filters your "sight" through mental filters in consciousness. No matter how lofty the sight may be, it always must fall short of the glory of GoD. So you never see the Son of God as he is. And this is to "destroy" the perfection of Our Father's true creation.
Under the new testament, you agree not to judge anymore. Judgement transforms the Son of God from him Self into self-concepts. Before self-concepts there was no such thing as judgement or judging. It is not an attribute germain to the Kingdom of God. It does not apply, and makes no sense. So it is by judgement that the world of perception arises and thrives. It is by judgement that self-concepts seem to exist. So judgement is the "life-blood" of self-concepts, and when it is drained, the self-concept dies.
The new testament is an agreemtent to judge with the Holy Spirit who comes to save percievers [judges] from their perceptions [false judgements]. As the Holy Spirit judges, he brings judgement to it "last judgement", after which there are no more judgements. And as you come to your last judgement as a self-concept, the concept "dies". This is the death that Jesus showed us to accept willingly.
reply to post by Christ!
Possibly interrupting your post progression here. Haven't read the one just posted yet, but thought I would address one of those posts you have made that I haven't replied to yet.
Is it possible, Christ!, that you neglect to be aware of an emulsifying affect that makes the one reality become apparent? And, that we currently live in a world where the majority are lost in the illusion/lie being without the benefit of that emulsifying.
Also, you did not follow the conversation. Check it out, it started as follows:
"How can something be added when it already exists" makes talking about the emulsifying impossible. My comment that has been taken out of context was made by me in order to address the process.
If you wish to ignore that there are people who are yet "to have added to them" and believe that everyone in the whole world is already experiencing oneness IN AWARENESS, that is your right; but, while engaged in that fantasy, please do not misrepresent me, my intentions, nor intimidate that you know where my loyalties are. That it is a fact that we are all one, does not change the additional fact that the major percentage of people do not know it.
There is a process. Do you deny it?
I shall not address the rest of your post due to it's accusatory nature. You can make your points without pointing a finger, can't you? Note that when you point a finger, there are three fingers pointing backwards at yourself.
Possibly interrupting your post progression here. Haven't read the one just posted yet, but thought I would address one of those posts you have made that I haven't replied to yet.
Even though we are both aware of the different realities, just for now let us confine ourselves to the reality that we live in.
Maybe there is also a conflict of concepts in how "the kingdom of heaven" is manifested in this realm? Is there?
Look at this statement:
"...for now let us confine ourselves to the reality that we live in".
This shows the direction you are heading, and where your loyalties lie. It also teaches why anyone is "here" in the first place. There are not two realities. It is this kind of thinking that confines one's experience to the unreality of the illusion.
Is it possible, Christ!, that you neglect to be aware of an emulsifying affect that makes the one reality become apparent? And, that we currently live in a world where the majority are lost in the illusion/lie being without the benefit of that emulsifying.
Also, you did not follow the conversation. Check it out, it started as follows:
Originally posted by badmedia
reply to post by L.I.B.
But how do you add to something if it is already present as you say? Only on the level of time does not actually exist could you do such a thing, which you dismissed as the reason when I mentioned it earlier.
Adding and taking away are only possible in the construct of time, and time consists of past, present and future.
"How can something be added when it already exists" makes talking about the emulsifying impossible. My comment that has been taken out of context was made by me in order to address the process.
If you wish to ignore that there are people who are yet "to have added to them" and believe that everyone in the whole world is already experiencing oneness IN AWARENESS, that is your right; but, while engaged in that fantasy, please do not misrepresent me, my intentions, nor intimidate that you know where my loyalties are. That it is a fact that we are all one, does not change the additional fact that the major percentage of people do not know it.
There is a process. Do you deny it?
I shall not address the rest of your post due to it's accusatory nature. You can make your points without pointing a finger, can't you? Note that when you point a finger, there are three fingers pointing backwards at yourself.
Continued from above...
When Jesus said, "Lay down your life that you may take it up again", he meant, let the self-concept die that the Self may live as he is, as he was created by GoD, perfect, equal to Himself, alive always, Life itself, free of fantasy, and full of reality. What dies is a self-concept, and what rises is the Self...Life itSelf. And this is the same as to say, "know thySelf".
The death of the self-concept is accomplished by draining it of its life-blood: judgement. So Jesus said, "Judge not". In this way, the "last judgement" is the death of self-concepts. "Man" is a self-concept. Likewise, personhood is a self-concept.
A self-concept has its own "name". And these names are seen to be a kind of salvation, which save the individual from the truth of oneness. But there is no other name under heaven by which man a man can be saved except the name of the Son of God. Whatever that name is, it is one name. That is the whole point. It matters not what that name is, so long as all are called by that name. What is the name of the oneness of reality? What do you call the one reality? What do you call the Truth? What do you call true Life? Whatever that name is, it must be the same for all. And by identifying with that name, the one is saved from many self-concepts.
Jesus is a self-concept which Jesus knew must "die" if he is to "live" as Christ, the one and only Son of God. Jesus knew that the world is a self-concept that "lives" off the "death" of the truth, which is the one and only Son of God.
Jesus knew that the maker of the world - "s.a.t.a.n." - is a self-concept. So the "gOd" of this world is a false self-image of GoD. Who can make a false self-image of GoD but GoD? Or rather, who but the "prodigal Son" of GoD? It is this false self-image that defines the prodigal Son as "prodigal". The prodigal Son is the "gOd" of another kingdom, redefining himself according to foreign laws, ie. perception. And the law of the foreign land is: *all things are separate and independant and autonomous and free to exercise their own will*. In this way, the prodigal Son become his own maker, making another "father" instead of "Our Father" in heaven. So, "s.a.t.a.n" is an idol, and all its offspring are idols. Whatever "satan" is, so are its offpring. S.a.t.a.n. is *different* from everything. Everything is the Son of God. So, s.a.t.a.n. is everything that is different from the Son of God. Accordingly, everything in its kingdom is different.
S.a.t.a.n. is the concept of another mind [consciousness] which thinks differently from truth. S.a.t.a.n. is the concept of another will, which wills differently from Life. S.a.t.a.n. is a mind which thinks in terms of separation, instead of the truth of oneness. So, s.a.t.a.n is an "image" of Self...a false image. In psychological terms, it can be called an "ego", or "alter ego".
Jesus knew that the world was made in the image of an alter ego of Self, which uses a thoughts system opposite Self to think. So, the world is an image [as a symbol opposed to reality], in the image of "many", or "legion" self-concepts. Jesus knew that these false self-concepts existed in the mind of Christ as beliefs about himself...false beliefs...false images...false idols. Jeus knew this false self-image was interested only in its own survival, and the survival of its false self-images.
Jesus knew that Christ has the power to cast out false self-concepts out of his own mind at will. Jesus knew that to do this, he must be willing to identify with Christ, and not with a self-image. When Peter tried to talk Jesus out of "dying" the death of the "last judgement", Jesus judged with Christ, and said, "get behind me s.a.t.a.n". And this is because it is the function of s.a.t.a.n to keep the false self-image alive, for its own purposes.
Each time a self-concept truly "dies", it brings s.a.t.a.n. that much closer to non-existence.
When Jesus said, "Lay down your life that you may take it up again", he meant, let the self-concept die that the Self may live as he is, as he was created by GoD, perfect, equal to Himself, alive always, Life itself, free of fantasy, and full of reality. What dies is a self-concept, and what rises is the Self...Life itSelf. And this is the same as to say, "know thySelf".
The death of the self-concept is accomplished by draining it of its life-blood: judgement. So Jesus said, "Judge not". In this way, the "last judgement" is the death of self-concepts. "Man" is a self-concept. Likewise, personhood is a self-concept.
A self-concept has its own "name". And these names are seen to be a kind of salvation, which save the individual from the truth of oneness. But there is no other name under heaven by which man a man can be saved except the name of the Son of God. Whatever that name is, it is one name. That is the whole point. It matters not what that name is, so long as all are called by that name. What is the name of the oneness of reality? What do you call the one reality? What do you call the Truth? What do you call true Life? Whatever that name is, it must be the same for all. And by identifying with that name, the one is saved from many self-concepts.
Jesus is a self-concept which Jesus knew must "die" if he is to "live" as Christ, the one and only Son of God. Jesus knew that the world is a self-concept that "lives" off the "death" of the truth, which is the one and only Son of God.
Jesus knew that the maker of the world - "s.a.t.a.n." - is a self-concept. So the "gOd" of this world is a false self-image of GoD. Who can make a false self-image of GoD but GoD? Or rather, who but the "prodigal Son" of GoD? It is this false self-image that defines the prodigal Son as "prodigal". The prodigal Son is the "gOd" of another kingdom, redefining himself according to foreign laws, ie. perception. And the law of the foreign land is: *all things are separate and independant and autonomous and free to exercise their own will*. In this way, the prodigal Son become his own maker, making another "father" instead of "Our Father" in heaven. So, "s.a.t.a.n" is an idol, and all its offspring are idols. Whatever "satan" is, so are its offpring. S.a.t.a.n. is *different* from everything. Everything is the Son of God. So, s.a.t.a.n. is everything that is different from the Son of God. Accordingly, everything in its kingdom is different.
S.a.t.a.n. is the concept of another mind [consciousness] which thinks differently from truth. S.a.t.a.n. is the concept of another will, which wills differently from Life. S.a.t.a.n. is a mind which thinks in terms of separation, instead of the truth of oneness. So, s.a.t.a.n is an "image" of Self...a false image. In psychological terms, it can be called an "ego", or "alter ego".
Jesus knew that the world was made in the image of an alter ego of Self, which uses a thoughts system opposite Self to think. So, the world is an image [as a symbol opposed to reality], in the image of "many", or "legion" self-concepts. Jesus knew that these false self-concepts existed in the mind of Christ as beliefs about himself...false beliefs...false images...false idols. Jeus knew this false self-image was interested only in its own survival, and the survival of its false self-images.
Jesus knew that Christ has the power to cast out false self-concepts out of his own mind at will. Jesus knew that to do this, he must be willing to identify with Christ, and not with a self-image. When Peter tried to talk Jesus out of "dying" the death of the "last judgement", Jesus judged with Christ, and said, "get behind me s.a.t.a.n". And this is because it is the function of s.a.t.a.n to keep the false self-image alive, for its own purposes.
Each time a self-concept truly "dies", it brings s.a.t.a.n. that much closer to non-existence.
So when Peter tried to talk Jesus out of dying, he was speaking for conciousness, as consciousness, it its own best interests, for its own purposes.
Consciousness only exists as a belief in the mind of Christ...a belief in a mind apart...a separate mind...a mind that thinks all on its own.
Consciousness dies as each self-concept withdraws faith in it, and puts its faith in the truth instead. So when you truly believe in Christ, you disbelieve consciousness and all of the images it puts in front of your eyes. What consciousness puts in front of your "eyes" is all entirely false...a "false witness". So, to believe in Christ is to disbelieve the false witness. Conversely, to disbelieve in Christ is to believe in the false witness, which is to believe in "sin". Sin is an insane fantasy made to seem real, usurping reality with its own mocked up version. Sin "proves" that separation is the truth. Sin goes on to "prove" that guilt is a valid concept. So sin makes the world to "justify" a belief in separation and guilt, and make them "real". In this way, sin attempts to prove that seriously insane notions [ideas, images, symbols] about Christ are the truth instead of Christ.
Peter tried to talk Jesus out of dying because Peter was not interested in dying to his self-concept. In time, Peter is still not interested in dying to self-concepts. So, 2000 years later, Peter is still incarnating in time...still seeking a self-concept. He has set his sights on a lofty self-concept, which seems "good". But it still falls short of the glory of GoD because it is still a self-concept, limited within the concept of separation...separate identities...separate beings...separate minds. It is still an attempt to combine, yoke and reconcile - magically - the "many and one" concept. And this is to be rich in the spirit of consciousness. It does not matter how "good" or benevolent "Christ consciousness" is made to appear. It is still not the truth, so it is still not Self, and it is still not the death of the desire that fantasy be the truth.
Jesus said, "blessed are they who are poor in spirit". It is the spirit of the world which must "die" that Christ may "live". Those who are poor in the spirit of the world will be rich in the abundance of Christ, who is perfect, glorious, awesome, and whole, without the need for additional self-concepts.
Peter gave the thumbs up to Paul because birds of a feather flock together. Paul was also rich in the spirit of the world, seeking rank and favor from GoD compared to others. So he worked feverishly to build up what he percieved as credits, counting the number of converts he made as the fruits of his labor, with which he thought to gain rank in the kingdom of consciousness, which he believed to be the Kingdom of GoD.
In time, Paul too is still seeking after a lofty self-image. Our Father will not give him this image. So, like all images, he seeks it by faith, giving it to himself as a gift of consciousness. To this end, Peter and Paul often work together, in the various ways they are working in time. And if they should achieve the "ascended master" status they seek, they may well like it. And if they like it, they may well be the last one's to exodus the world before it passes away.
This is an expression of freedom, but is not exactly a "blessing" in the way Jesus meant it. The blessed are those who turn back now toward the Kingdom of God as their reality, recieving the blessings of miracles along the path which leads home. It is only the Kingdom of GoD which can satisfy. The truth is that the Son of God will not be content with less than everything...with less than what GoD gave him in his "creation". In creation, GoD gives himself to his Son. The Son is GoD's gift to his Son. The blessed are those who seek GoD's gift, instead of their own to themselves.
Christ!
Consciousness dies as each self-concept withdraws faith in it, and puts its faith in the truth instead. So when you truly believe in Christ, you disbelieve consciousness and all of the images it puts in front of your eyes. What consciousness puts in front of your "eyes" is all entirely false...a "false witness". So, to believe in Christ is to disbelieve the false witness. Conversely, to disbelieve in Christ is to believe in the false witness, which is to believe in "sin". Sin is an insane fantasy made to seem real, usurping reality with its own mocked up version. Sin "proves" that separation is the truth. Sin goes on to "prove" that guilt is a valid concept. So sin makes the world to "justify" a belief in separation and guilt, and make them "real". In this way, sin attempts to prove that seriously insane notions [ideas, images, symbols] about Christ are the truth instead of Christ.
Peter tried to talk Jesus out of dying because Peter was not interested in dying to his self-concept. In time, Peter is still not interested in dying to self-concepts. So, 2000 years later, Peter is still incarnating in time...still seeking a self-concept. He has set his sights on a lofty self-concept, which seems "good". But it still falls short of the glory of GoD because it is still a self-concept, limited within the concept of separation...separate identities...separate beings...separate minds. It is still an attempt to combine, yoke and reconcile - magically - the "many and one" concept. And this is to be rich in the spirit of consciousness. It does not matter how "good" or benevolent "Christ consciousness" is made to appear. It is still not the truth, so it is still not Self, and it is still not the death of the desire that fantasy be the truth.
Jesus said, "blessed are they who are poor in spirit". It is the spirit of the world which must "die" that Christ may "live". Those who are poor in the spirit of the world will be rich in the abundance of Christ, who is perfect, glorious, awesome, and whole, without the need for additional self-concepts.
Peter gave the thumbs up to Paul because birds of a feather flock together. Paul was also rich in the spirit of the world, seeking rank and favor from GoD compared to others. So he worked feverishly to build up what he percieved as credits, counting the number of converts he made as the fruits of his labor, with which he thought to gain rank in the kingdom of consciousness, which he believed to be the Kingdom of GoD.
In time, Paul too is still seeking after a lofty self-image. Our Father will not give him this image. So, like all images, he seeks it by faith, giving it to himself as a gift of consciousness. To this end, Peter and Paul often work together, in the various ways they are working in time. And if they should achieve the "ascended master" status they seek, they may well like it. And if they like it, they may well be the last one's to exodus the world before it passes away.
This is an expression of freedom, but is not exactly a "blessing" in the way Jesus meant it. The blessed are those who turn back now toward the Kingdom of God as their reality, recieving the blessings of miracles along the path which leads home. It is only the Kingdom of GoD which can satisfy. The truth is that the Son of God will not be content with less than everything...with less than what GoD gave him in his "creation". In creation, GoD gives himself to his Son. The Son is GoD's gift to his Son. The blessed are those who seek GoD's gift, instead of their own to themselves.
Christ!
Originally posted by L.I.B.
Is it possible, Christ!, that you neglect to be aware of an emulsifying affect that makes the one reality become apparent? And, that we currently live in a world where the majority are lost in the illusion/lie being without the benefit of that emulsifying.
If you wish to ignore that there are people who are yet "to have added to them" and believe that everyone in the whole world is already experiencing oneness IN AWARENESS, that is your right; but, while engaged in that fantasy, please do not misrepresent me, my intentions, nor intimidate that you know where my loyalties are. That it is a fact that we are all one, does not change the additional fact that the major percentage of people do not know it.
There is a process. Do you deny it?
I shall not address the rest of your post due to it's accusatory nature. You can make your points without pointing a finger, can't you? Note that when you point a finger, there are three fingers pointing backwards at yourself.
Let us say that there is an emulsifying effect which attempts to combine and mix what cannot be reconciled...and an emulsifying effect which dispells the notion of separateness till it is no longer believed, and so passes away as if it never was.
Depending on where your loyalties lie, one or the other will be attempted. The attempt to combine will eventually fail, while the attempt to separate truth of oneness from a false combination will prevail.
Christ knows that your true loyalties are with the truth. I am speaking of your secondary loyalties. The secondary loyalties are what I am calling the "spirit" of the world...the desire for what the world seems to offer in terms of self-concepts. Christ knows this is a passing fancy compared to your constant, steady will to know only the truth as true. So, Christ stands outside of time, waiting patiently for you to make your choice that you may be a "chosen" one.
I am not really speaking about "you", but in generalities as "you" offer your state of mind for examination. Thank you! I am speculating about your loyalties based on a perception of your statements. I am looking at your statements as a reflection of your state of mind. Words often betray motive, and the statement, "for now, let us confine ourselves to this reality" is like a Freudian slip. Do you really want to confine yourself and others to the reality of what is not really reality and call it reality? Christ knows you do not. You may think you do.
It is necessary to look at hidden thoughts that keep us pinned down within illusion. It is thoughts like these which betray us...betray our true desire to return to the Kingdom of God....because it is only our false desire which can keep us confined to a "universe" built entirely on false beliefs about the Son of God...false beliefs about what the Kingdom of GoD is or ought to be.
I observe your direction, knowing that anyone is either for Christ or against Christ at any moment in their thinking, because thoughts are not neutral on this point. And if the trajectory of your direction is as it appears in time, you may well be following Paul for another several thousand years toward an ideal self-concept which suits you. And along the way toward this ideal, you will suffer to pay for it with your life, and accept a regular paycheck of death along the way.
I am reminded of a analogy a preacher on the radio used to reconcile GoD and man together. He said that oil and water don't mix, unless you add an emulsifier: egg whites. He explained that this is how mayonaise is made. He said that the blood of Christ is like the egg whites which combines what would otherwise be uncombinable due to "sin". I am saying that he is using symbols to make more magic, following the legacy of Paul. Sacrifice cannot be combined with mercy.
Christ!
[edit on 30-12-2008 by Christ!]
Originally posted by L.I.B.
If you wish to ignore that there are people who are yet "to have added to them" and believe that everyone in the whole world is already experiencing oneness IN AWARENESS, that is your right; but, while engaged in that fantasy, please do not misrepresent me, my intentions, nor intimidate that you know where my loyalties are. That it is a fact that we are all one, does not change the additional fact that the major percentage of people do not know it.
There is a process. Do you deny it?
There is a process, yes, which is bringing fantasy to an end. It is a kind of reverse process, reversing what makes fantasy seem real. And that process can be called "Christ" transforming into what he is nOt back into what he is. It could be called a "creative" process, although fantasy is not a creation so much as an expression of freedom.
The fantasy is one fantasy, not many. So it is one dreamer sleeping, not many. The dreamer dreams of many. And as he awakens, the many awaken, one by one, putting aside fantasy as a way of "life". While engaged in fantasy, they are not aware that oneness prevails over separation, despite appearances. So their experience is of separation, and not oneness. To be fully aware of oneness is to be fully awake, and fully experiencing oneness. And this is the experience of eternal life, bliss, and constant joy exceeding anything fantasy seems to offer by way of temptation.
In exodus, I am aware that there are "others" who sleep on, who will awaken in their own time at their own pace. I would question exactly how "aware" the awake are aware of a dream. To that extent, I do not assume Our Father is aware of our dream, except to the extent that his Son appeared to sleep, and was awakened gently by the Holy Spirit, created equal to the Father and Son, with the purpose of keeping communication lines open for an inevitable return to reality.
In this process, one's current loyalties will determine how he "sees" the word of God. Take the saying "second coming of Christ" for example. If one identifies with the self-concept that is the world, and with the self-concepts within it, then he is likely to interpret that as 'Jesus will come back to earth to get rid of the evildoers once and for all'. And this leads to confusion. But if one identifies with Christ, and believes Christ to be the only reality, then he will interpret it to mean a 'homecoming' in which Christ [Creation] seemed to be destroyed and made non-existent, only to be re-created by the salvation process and reappear in all his glory, as if to be created a second time. But this is only for those who thought he disappeared.
Christ has always been, is now, and always shall be...unchanged by appearances of fantasy about him. While fantasizing about Christ, one cannot see him. While accepting Christ, Christ will appear to him, as if "coming upon the clouds of heaven". It is simply a matter of mental filters within consciousness which either permit or resist the vision of Christ, depending on loyalties. The moment one's loyalties shift to Christ, that moment will be the "second coming".
The first coming of Christ was his creation. The second coming is his salvation from fantasies that blind him from himSelf.
Christ!
[edit on 30-12-2008 by Christ!]
I personally am neither. Paul was a manipulator who made false claims that Jesus was G-d in the flesh. He twisted the sayings of the prophets to fit
this view, but anyone who cares to know will be able to see the obvious lies that came out of this man's teachings.
Paul says in Romans 1: 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
I see it written in Habakkuk 2 (written in context below), but Paul has distorted the point of “the just shall live by (his) faith” by pulling it out of context. Put into context and it sounds like a clear warning about this “faith.’
Galations 3: 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Proverbs 11: 9 An hypocrite with his mouth destroyeth his neighbour: but through knowledge shall the just be delivered.
Paul says in Romans 1: 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
I see it written in Habakkuk 2 (written in context below), but Paul has distorted the point of “the just shall live by (his) faith” by pulling it out of context. Put into context and it sounds like a clear warning about this “faith.’
Galations 3: 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Proverbs 11: 9 An hypocrite with his mouth destroyeth his neighbour: but through knowledge shall the just be delivered.
Hebrews 10: 37-39 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw
back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the
soul.
The passage he is *sort of* quoting actually says (Habakkuk 2):
3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.
4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. (this doesn’t seem to be used in a positive context)
5 Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and is as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:
(the whole chapter seems to be a warning about just this type of faith… the wood and rock references are uncanny parallels to the two religions that have loosely based themselves on Judaism) It is no wonder that Paul had to go speak to the Gentiles considering the Jewish people should be able to see right through the manipulation. It also is understandable why there was so much contention between Paul and the Jews.
There is only one other place where “faith” is used in the old testament and the Hebrew translation into English is actually faithfulness (which is the key difference. Paul’s use of faith translates into “belief” from the Greek word “pistis”). In the context of the faith, aka faithfulness as spoken of by Moses in Deut. 32, it also says: 46 And he said unto them, Set your hearts unto all the words which I testify among you this day, which ye shall command your children to observe to do, all the words of this law. 47 For it is not a vain thing for you; because it is your life: and through this thing ye shall prolong your days in the land, whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.
Knowledge is mentioned over and over again throughout Genesis – Malachi.
All throughout Paul’s writings we see this same kind of mutilation to the old passages.
Philippians 2:9-11
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
G-d’s people are supposed to worship HIM!
Isa 45:22-23
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Don’t see a man/god (Jesus) being mentioned in the following either. Isa 45:21...and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. OR here: Isa 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
And then Paul assumes authority over those who don’t believe in the savior he has invented by threatening them:
Gal 1:9
As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Paul worshipped a god that the ancient egyptians worshipped and he identifies jesus as this god in Revelation 3: 14.
Proverbs 8:
8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.
9 They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.
10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.
The passage he is *sort of* quoting actually says (Habakkuk 2):
3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.
4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. (this doesn’t seem to be used in a positive context)
5 Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and is as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:
(the whole chapter seems to be a warning about just this type of faith… the wood and rock references are uncanny parallels to the two religions that have loosely based themselves on Judaism) It is no wonder that Paul had to go speak to the Gentiles considering the Jewish people should be able to see right through the manipulation. It also is understandable why there was so much contention between Paul and the Jews.
There is only one other place where “faith” is used in the old testament and the Hebrew translation into English is actually faithfulness (which is the key difference. Paul’s use of faith translates into “belief” from the Greek word “pistis”). In the context of the faith, aka faithfulness as spoken of by Moses in Deut. 32, it also says: 46 And he said unto them, Set your hearts unto all the words which I testify among you this day, which ye shall command your children to observe to do, all the words of this law. 47 For it is not a vain thing for you; because it is your life: and through this thing ye shall prolong your days in the land, whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.
Knowledge is mentioned over and over again throughout Genesis – Malachi.
All throughout Paul’s writings we see this same kind of mutilation to the old passages.
Philippians 2:9-11
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
G-d’s people are supposed to worship HIM!
Isa 45:22-23
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Don’t see a man/god (Jesus) being mentioned in the following either. Isa 45:21...and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. OR here: Isa 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
And then Paul assumes authority over those who don’t believe in the savior he has invented by threatening them:
Gal 1:9
As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Paul worshipped a god that the ancient egyptians worshipped and he identifies jesus as this god in Revelation 3: 14.
Proverbs 8:
8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.
9 They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.
10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.
reply to post by Christ!
Hey Christ!,
We are both limited in our posting capacity and I am only addressing certain things from your multiple posts.
That's the "only" way it exists?
"Consciousness dies" hmmmm. What is your definition of consciousness?
Per the dictionary:
Con"scious*ness\, n. 1. The state of being conscious; knowledge of one's own existence, condition, sensations, mental operations, acts, etc.
Without consciousness, how would the Son of God even know that he was satisfied?
Without individuality, drones would exist. True, the separating ego must die, but it then must be rebuilt too. Individuality remains.
That is exactly what was being discussed.
The mercy is extended prior to the sacrifice. The gifts and blessings are part of the later stages of mercy otherwise no one would survive the sacrifice if done too soon.
Best wishes for that reverse engineering way of explaining the process. Hope that didn't sound sarcastic, it is sincere. My own personal experience has shown otherwise. As you continue in your exodus, after your arrival in the Holy Land (land... earth... body), you'll continue to discover more and more.
So tell me, if a person was combining two concepts that then caused confusion, and then after receiving clarification of how those two concepts was affecting getting to an understanding, how would you word... let's put that concept aside for right now as it is complicating matters unnecessarily? The person I was speaking to was using the word "reality".
Thank you for at least saying "is like" a freudian slip. Paraphrasing Freud: Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and is nothing more.
Yes, I know.
Just because the father is watching from afar doesn't mean he doesn't see the child. The father sees the child coming long before the child is even close and 'rushes' to the child.
Since you are in exodus, and have stated earlier that you have not yet had that moment, these statements indicate to me that you have not yet arrived to the Holy Land. When you do arrive, perhaps it will be found that even while the body is sleeping, the consciousness is still aware, awake and actively engaged in activities concerning the kingdom.
Careful, lol, you are speaking about the emulsifying... the magic that you seem to so disdain.
And yet, you still question where I am. What have I been saying? How would anyone know this unless they knew it? What's more, who could accept it if it wasn't already proven to them? Nevertheless, at the same time, I will not limit just how God's plan might be enacted in all it's possible variables. "Life happens as you make other plans."-- John Lennon
Hey Christ!,
We are both limited in our posting capacity and I am only addressing certain things from your multiple posts.
Consciousness only exists as a belief in the mind of Christ...a belief in a mind apart...a separate mind...a mind that thinks all on its own.
That's the "only" way it exists?
Consciousness dies as each self-concept withdraws faith in it, and puts its faith in the truth instead. So when you truly believe in Christ, you disbelieve consciousness...
"Consciousness dies" hmmmm. What is your definition of consciousness?
Per the dictionary:
Con"scious*ness\, n. 1. The state of being conscious; knowledge of one's own existence, condition, sensations, mental operations, acts, etc.
It is only the Kingdom of GoD which can satisfy. The truth is that the Son of God will not be content with less than everything...with less than what GoD gave him in his "creation".
Without consciousness, how would the Son of God even know that he was satisfied?
Without individuality, drones would exist. True, the separating ego must die, but it then must be rebuilt too. Individuality remains.
In creation, GoD gives himself to his Son. The Son is GoD's gift to his Son. The blessed are those who seek GoD's gift, instead of their own to themselves.
That is exactly what was being discussed.
Sacrifice cannot be combined with mercy.
The mercy is extended prior to the sacrifice. The gifts and blessings are part of the later stages of mercy otherwise no one would survive the sacrifice if done too soon.
There is a process, yes, which is bringing fantasy to an end. It is a kind of reverse process, reversing what makes fantasy seem real. And that process can be called "Christ" transforming into what he is nOt back into what he is.
Best wishes for that reverse engineering way of explaining the process. Hope that didn't sound sarcastic, it is sincere. My own personal experience has shown otherwise. As you continue in your exodus, after your arrival in the Holy Land (land... earth... body), you'll continue to discover more and more.
Words often betray motive, and the statement, "for now, let us confine ourselves to this reality" is like a Freudian slip. Do you really want to confine yourself and others to the reality of what is not really reality and call it reality? Christ knows you do not. You may think you do.
So tell me, if a person was combining two concepts that then caused confusion, and then after receiving clarification of how those two concepts was affecting getting to an understanding, how would you word... let's put that concept aside for right now as it is complicating matters unnecessarily? The person I was speaking to was using the word "reality".
Thank you for at least saying "is like" a freudian slip. Paraphrasing Freud: Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and is nothing more.
While engaged in fantasy, they are not aware that oneness prevails over separation, despite appearances. So their experience is of separation, and not oneness. To be fully aware of oneness is to be fully awake, and fully experiencing oneness. And this is the experience of eternal life, bliss, and constant joy exceeding anything fantasy seems to offer by way of temptation.
Yes, I know.
In exodus, I am aware that there are "others" who sleep on, who will awaken in their own time at their own pace. I would question exactly how "aware" the awake are aware of a dream. To that extent, I do not assume Our Father is aware of our dream, except to the extent that his Son appeared to sleep, ...
Just because the father is watching from afar doesn't mean he doesn't see the child. The father sees the child coming long before the child is even close and 'rushes' to the child.
Since you are in exodus, and have stated earlier that you have not yet had that moment, these statements indicate to me that you have not yet arrived to the Holy Land. When you do arrive, perhaps it will be found that even while the body is sleeping, the consciousness is still aware, awake and actively engaged in activities concerning the kingdom.
...and was awakened gently by the Holy Spirit, ...
Careful, lol, you are speaking about the emulsifying... the magic that you seem to so disdain.
In this process, one's current loyalties will determine how he "sees" the word of God. Take the saying "second coming of Christ" for example. If one identifies with the self-concept that is the world, and with the self-concepts within it, then he is likely to interpret that as 'Jesus will come back to earth to get rid of the evildoers once and for all'. And this leads to confusion. But if one identifies with Christ, and believes Christ to be the only reality, then he will interpret it to mean a 'homecoming' in which Christ [Creation] seemed to be destroyed and made non-existent, only to be re-created by the salvation process and reappear in all his glory, as if to be created a second time. But this is only for those who thought he disappeared. Christ has always been, is now, and always shall be...unchanged by appearances of fantasy about him. While fantasizing about Christ, one cannot see him. While accepting Christ, Christ will appear to him, as if "coming upon the clouds of heaven". It is simply a matter of mental filters within consciousness which either permit or resist the vision of Christ, depending on loyalties. The moment one's loyalties shift to Christ, that moment will be the "second coming". The first coming of Christ was his creation. The second coming is his salvation from fantasies that blind him from himSelf.
And yet, you still question where I am. What have I been saying? How would anyone know this unless they knew it? What's more, who could accept it if it wasn't already proven to them? Nevertheless, at the same time, I will not limit just how God's plan might be enacted in all it's possible variables. "Life happens as you make other plans."-- John Lennon
reply to post by justamomma
Hi,
Surprised that the following verse wasn't included in your post. Seems it would be the most convincing regarding the Jesus is not G-d issue.
God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent;
Has He said, and will He not do it?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good? Numbers 23:19
Jesus repeatedly referred to himself as a Son of Man.
So? Are you Jewish?
Hi,
Surprised that the following verse wasn't included in your post. Seems it would be the most convincing regarding the Jesus is not G-d issue.
God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent;
Has He said, and will He not do it?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good? Numbers 23:19
Jesus repeatedly referred to himself as a Son of Man.
So? Are you Jewish?
Originally posted by L.I.B.
reply to post by justamomma
Hi,
Surprised that the following verse wasn't included in your post. Seems it would be the most convincing regarding the Jesus is not G-d issue.
God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent;
Has He said, and will He not do it?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good? Numbers 23:19
Jesus repeatedly referred to himself as a Son of Man.
So? Are you Jewish?
Hi back atcha! Depends on your definition of Jewish. I am a descendent of the line of Judah but not purely so. To those who believe that being Jewish is through bloodline, then I am partially Jewish.
I do not practice Judaism to the full extent since one is required to go through teaching first, which I am doing at the present time. So, to those who believe that only those who are complying fully with all the laws laid out, I am not Jewish... yet.
Thus, with all that confusion, I guess the most assured way to answer your question is that I am me.. created.
And yes, there are many passages that would have been appropriate to draw out. I have recently put together an article concerning Romans 10 in hopes of showing the complete mutilation of the Hebrew Scriptures courtesy of Paul.
I have not yet read through this thread and so I do not know your position on Paul; however, considering what you have drawn from that verse, I assume that you position yourself in Truth, correct?
Originally posted by L.I.B.
God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent;
Has He said, and will He not do it?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good? Numbers 23:19
Jesus repeatedly referred to himself as a Son of Man.
Shakespearean actors refer to themselves as, for example, Hamlet. But that is merely to make a point. It is not to truly identify themselves. On the other hand, a Shakepearean actor could attend an afterparty and say things like, "No really, I am Hamlet! Seriously, I'm Hamlet". And then it is up to the party goers to laugh at such good acting.
It's imperative, for understanding, to "get" that Jesus was acting out, in parody, an identity crises in the mind of Christ. Kind of a doctor-Jekyl-mr-Hyde sort of thing. And this is because he was acting out the concept of a split mind [ie. "a house divided against itself cannot stand"]. One side of this mind is insane, and thinks like Hamlet. Such is the "son of man". The son of man basically crucifies himself with the way he thinks.
On the other side is the Son of God, representing sanity, health and wholeness. This is the side that lives, and defies death scenarios.
Either way, Jesus acted out the genesis, existence and destiny of everyone and everything. The genesis of the son of man is the same as everything in the world. Everything in the world comes at the expense of truth about Self, the Son of God. And yet, everything in the world is somehow made by the Son of God. The existence of the son of man is the same as everything in the world: everything in the world exists in a kind of "tomb". What appears to live is not really alive, and what appears to die was never living. As such, the universe is a "dead" Christ. The term a scientist might use is "closed universe". Everything that will happen has already happened. There is really no creativity going on. Things are just going through the motions as scripted by the thinking of a wayward mind.
The "sign of Jonah" that Jesus spoke of means that Jesus showed the way to escape the "tomb" that is the universe, which is likened to the "belly of the whale". He escaped by identifying with Christ, the maker of the beast.
As the son of man, Jesus symbolizes everything unreal.
As the Son of God, Jesus symbolizes everything real.
As each of us identifies with "Christ crucified", we identify with everything unreal. This is simply to "confess" that "we" are the consciousness that makes everything unreal. This is an affirmation of oneness. We are the "maker" of a fantasy world, in which consciousness is but a tool of self deception. And our experience as "man" is but an "optical delusion of consciousness" [sic Einstein]. As such, we are the character "s.a.t.a.n", but we are not really s.a.t.a.n.
As we "confess", so are we "forgiven". And forgiven, our awareness is restored to us. We are forgiven as we identify with "the risen Christ", who is without beginning and without end, and without sin [fantasy]. This is basically to choose loyalties. If we insist we are s.a.t.a.n. we may well be laughed at and mocked...and crucified. But, what is one cannot be guilty for the way it expressed freedom. It cannot be guilty because nothing can happen to the Son of God without his consent, as nothing happens to an actor without his consent. So what appears to have "happened" is simply a gift he has given himself which satisfies curiosity about what is different from everything that is real [what is different from himSelf].
Thus, the Son of God is not really a man, lest he should lie. Nor is he a son of man, that he should claim to actually be Hamlet. That is why Jesus also said, "Call no man father". How can he be the son of man if he calls no man father? Matthew foolishly traces his lineage back to "son of David".
Christ!
[edit on 30-12-2008 by Christ!]
reply to post by justamomma
Ah, very cool!
Well, it may surprise you then that I haven't thrown out any books of the bible... finding it all useful.
Ah, very cool!
I have not yet read through this thread and so I do not know your position on Paul; however, considering what you have drawn from that verse, I assume that you position yourself in Truth, correct?
Well, it may surprise you then that I haven't thrown out any books of the bible... finding it all useful.
reply to post by Christ!
The son of man as I understand it is the perfect man as The Adam was prior to "pretending to hide from God"... to use lingo that you'd relate to.
Jesus said: No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. John 3:13
As the son of man, Jesus symbolizes everything unreal.
As the Son of God, Jesus symbolizes everything real.
The son of man as I understand it is the perfect man as The Adam was prior to "pretending to hide from God"... to use lingo that you'd relate to.
Jesus said: No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. John 3:13
Originally posted by L.I.B.
reply to post by Christ!
As the son of man, Jesus symbolizes everything unreal.
As the Son of God, Jesus symbolizes everything real.
The son of man as I understand it is the perfect man as The Adam was prior to "pretending to hide from God"... to use lingo that you'd relate to.
Jesus said: No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. John 3:13
There is no such thing as a perfect man, unless you think that some storms can be perfect. Man is perfect alright...perfectly disfunctional. Only the Son of God is perfect, even as his Father "in heaven" is perfect, for like comes from like. Man is nOt like GoD, and is made by a concept-mind nOt like the mind of Christ.
Man is a concept which is perfectly imperfect, answering perfectly a somewhat silly question, "What if everything was different?". The world answers that question perfectly for the Son of God. That is its highest purpose. Man is part of an answer to a question which pictures what is different from perfection Itself. As such, man is not "guilty". Man is not a cause of anything. Man is an effect of a question, being an enigma wrapped inside a riddle and manifested by a mystery.
Man is a concept which combines pseudo-attributes of the mind of Christ with pseudo-opposites. So it is *thesis and anti-thesis* in the mind of Christ. The combination makes a "mockery" of Christ, and jokingly pokes fun at perfection. Thus, to insist that there ever was a perfect man is quite funny. That's like saying there is a perfect idol somewhere on Easter Island.
Rather, man is what the thesis mind of Christ hides behind...like a fig leaf. In fact, the whole universe is a defensive shield against the truth, that it might not be found out that it is like the "Emporer with no clothes". The thesis mind of Christ is "Christ consciousness". It expresses itself as a combination of "good and not-good [evil]". It's good is theoretical...and its evil is hypothetical. So it is neither good nor evil...it just does not really exist.
Likewise, what seems to take its existence from it also does not exist. As such, man's experience is an "optical delusion of consciousness" [sic Einstien]. As such, man does not exist. But while he seems to exist, he exists as a parodox, an oxymoron...a "sophomore" [wise fool]. All of man's wisdom is not truly wisdom, and all of his foolishness is not necessarily foolish. It is well staged.
As an oxymoron, man possesses "eyes" which really cannot see.
As a sophomore, man speaks wisdom but is full of #.
As a parodox, man is an unlimited mind possessed by a limited form [body].
And in so many ways, man is a magical mix of mindless mindfulness. As such, the concept of another mind besides the mind of Christ is a joke. If you can finally "get" the joke, you may be beside yourself with hysterical laughter. Man is an effect of a joke which would conceptualize a mind "out of its mind". Man's behavior mimics its maker accordingly. The maker blames man. Man blames his kids and punishes them in order to "love" them. Here again is the insanity manifest, and in 101 other ways more.
No, man is not something to become. Man is something to abandon and escape from. So, "call no man 'father'", lest you imply that *Our Father* is insane. And if you maintain that Our Father is insane, how would you be saved from insanity?
No, man is an effect of a mind driven mad by guilt...running...hiding...blaming. Salvation is for the mind, and peace is the only way to save it. While there is a conflict of mind between real and unreal, there will be no peace. The gospel simply empowers us to make a choice between our motivational loyalties, that we may experience the peace of oneness instead of many conflicts.
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