Are you a Christian or a Paulian?

Originally posted by badmedia
For example, there is no such thing as "Time" on a higher level of understanding.

This is true. For time is opposite eternity, and there is nothing opposed to the eternal. Time is an imposter, imposing itself upon eternity, as if to usurp its place. Time steals the prime attribute of eternity - always - for itself, combining change with no change. The result, magically, is perpetual change, constant change, change forever. And this is simply another example of how the combination of GoD [good] and nOt gOd [evil] is expressed in terms of magical manifestation. Likewise, for every attribute of GoD, the world of time proposes a substitute and an opposite [thesis and antithesis], by which it would turn GoD upside down, inside out, backwards, and otherwise mangled beyond recognition.

Time is a vast illusion, and seems to sequence in linear fashion. Rather, it is more like a holograph [think: apple]. It has a "beginning" and an "end". The beginning of time is the "end" of Christ, who is eternal. So, Christ stands before time. But, Christ also stands at the end of time. The good news is that Christ also stands while time seems to stand in his place. Christmas is "Christ time", or, the time of Christ. As Christmas is introduced into time, time is brought to an end, and eternity takes its rightful place as Lord.

The linear experience of time, keys off of guilt. Guilt demands punishment for *past* crimes, and fears for a *future* retribution. This sets up a fearful, past/future consciousness. Consciousness is a mind apart from Christ, another mind, separate and feeling guilty about its stolen existence. As the prodigal Son identifies with this wayward mind, he feels guilty, and experiences time in linear fashion, always looking over his shoulder for the posse he fears must be coming after him...always looking forward to a time when he must expiate his guilt...running...running.

As a holographic apple, time does not pass by. Rather, a guilty consciousness worms its way through it, savouring the sweet mush of applesauce, and rotting the apple to the core. Though it changes form, the worm never really dies, except it die to guilt. Dying to guilt, innocence miraculously consumes vast tracts of time, collapsing the holograph in upon itself.

The body is an image, a concept of vulnerability. Its design is for punishment, for pain, for suffering, and little else. The body exists as something a guilty consciousness can project its guilt upon...that the body may be punished, and not itself. It is an image...symbolizing its maker...consciousness itself. Body is an outpicturing of mind. It seems to be something other than mind. But it is 100% a mental machine...imposing a limit upon the unlimited...combining limited and unlimited together...magically.

The body is what the mind makes to decieve itself, to defend itself against the truth...that separation may be "the truth" instead. For if separation were not the truth, consciousness would not exist, for it is a separate mind, another will, apart from the Kingdom of God. Rather, consciousness is an idol in the mind [temple] of the prodigal Son of God. The idol deems itself gOd, and makes man in its image. Guilt is "the beast", and *many* [ie. man] is its "number".

Without guilt, there would be no body. It would vanish. The body is a time machine keying off of guilt. The dispelling of guilt is the end of time for the body...and for the world. Christmas time is a time of innocence. The innocent return home at the speed of Light. And that is the meaning of GoDspeeD.

GoDspeeD,

Christ!




[edit on 20-12-2008 by Christ!]

I'm not sure how to respond Christ!. There is nothing you say I disagree with exactly. I do know that eventually what you say is what will happen.

The question as I see it however becomes - for what reason did I take on this reality in the first place, what did I want to learn, and have I learned all of that yet. Also the question of how exactly does 1 just "accept" these things to get back.

I'm not exactly sure I want to go back to source yet. I'm not sure if I want my entire ego(self being) dissolved. I know I don't want ego to determine my entire reality, so I think I seek a bit of balance there. To where I do not put myself above others, and vice versa.

I also believe that reality isn't possible unless people understand the truth.

It is very nice to actually hear another person talk in the way you do. It's very rare I see such a high level of truth. I do "know" that truth, but I am still in the process of trying to understand why and most importantly - how and what it means to do such things.

For example, I always hear - just accept Jesus in your heart. But what does that actually mean? Yes, you do need to do that - but how exactly do you do that? 8 times I was saved as a kid under these things(and John 3:16), and nothing every happened to me. How can I accept that which I do not actually know or understand? It wasn't until after I knew why and what it meant to accept Jesus that I was able to do stuff.

So I do see your destination as being correct. Of issue however is the path to get to it.

Originally posted by L.I.B.
You are thinking of heaven as an after this life sort of thing. Heaven can mean that and is most often used to mean that. However, no matter what or when, we go to the level that our consciousness is in. Some are able, at will, to put their consciousness into a different level.

There are different heavens and we can access them while living.

Actually, I do not believe in life or death. I only see a change in experience. Life and death are just states of the vessel my consciousness occupies, not a state of my consciousness itself. Life and death doesn't exist in eternity. Thus why Jesus rose after "death" to show he wasn't actually dead at all.

The closest thing to life and death my consciousness is experiences is only in relation to ego and physical.

I'm skeptical of astral planes and other things I'm sorry to say. I see them as more images and a shadow of the truth. More variables of an equation, which puts the variables as being the truth, rather than the equation that controls them as being the truth.

You could be right, but you are still just looking at the images/variables and not the equation. The equation and principles such things are based on is the true higher level. The equation and principles of Paul are not based on these higher levels, the equation and principles of Jesus are.

I hope that this explains to you why I was saying that the beatitudes are for those now living. The beatitudes are speaking of the spirit, not souls. The spirit is of God, the soul is not necessarily so.

But as Christ! says, you are assuming soul and spirit to not be the same. The soul is part of the overall spirit. They are not separate in truth, just separate in our perspective which gives us individuality(soul) within the spirit.

Whom you are calling poor in spirit, to me, are the souls who do not yet know that God is inside them. Those souls who are still believers and who have yet to have the work begun in them finished.

If what you said is true, then those people who can see heaven would be rich in spirit, not poor in spirit. The pure of heart see god, not the poor in spirit.

I was thinking of your strong message of repentance and of following what Jesus taught and how perhaps the beatitude of verse 6 might apply to you: "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied." It seems to me at times that you are quite satisfied with your present state of consciousness. I could be wrong.

Hardly am I satisfied. As far as righteousness goes, I won't be satisfied until the truth is apparent across the entire world, or the return of Jesus/Truth. That I am not satisfied is why I am still here. I have merely been comforted that such will happen. I hunger for truth. Not for just my own soul, but for all souls.

It is times like this disagreement that the matter of not knowing the bible better in addition to your considering Paul to be a false prophet is disadvantageous for you for he gives reference to this matter of heavens: I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows--such a man was caught up to the third heaven. 2 Corinthians 12:2

So, it can be seen from that verse that the third heaven is accessible both as out of the body, and as in the body... while living.

Half the truth is often the greatest lie. Of course he can do and say many wonderful and true things. But it doesn't change the fact that his methods were done in sin. As well, even a demon can tell you those things can they not? Tell you how to get to that level, as Jesus did in his example/path is another thing.

Nobody ever answers the question - Why does the rich man get into heaven according to Paul and the church, but does not get into heaven according to Jesus. Why is the path of Paul and the church so broad, and the path of Jesus so narrow?

There's another reference to this in Revelation: 10I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet,

It's just not as clear as the other verse.

But this is talk of being poor in spirit. Your example is of someone rich in spirit. To get to such levels requires you to be rich in spirit. Are we to believe that Jesus was poor in spirit? I think not.

The soul on earth, when joined with the Spirit, can and does travel to heaven. And those who are poor in spirit, to me, are those who rely solely on God and on nothing in this world.

The separation is not true, thus the deception/lie. There is no separation, it is the individual soul which has turned it's back on spirit and said that it is not of the spirit. When the soul is "joined with spirit" it is merely the soul recognizing the connection that was ALWAYS there. On that day you will realize that Jesus and the father are in you. That is the day you are no longer poor in spirit, that is the day you see the truth, and after that truth is why you need to be comforted. There is the saying - you shall know the truth, and the truth will make you mad(jesus says free). And without the comforter that is exactly what the truth will make you. With the comforter and the wisdom it brings, it sets you free.

As I said, those who are poor in spirit are blessed because they have not seen the connection, and all their actions have been based because they have not seen that connection. Upon the return when this truth is made apparent to all, and the veil is lifted will all these people return. Thus why Jesus first raises the dead - those who were poor in spirit and did not waited in separation.

And again, this all ties in with the only thing that is not forgivable, and that is blasphemy against the holy spirit. Because to do that you have to know the truth, and then insist on being separate and view ONLY your individual soul as being God, and keep everyone else ignorant to the truth etc. AKA what the anti-christ is about, as it tries to take the place of God.

I do understand your meaning however. It just isn't biblically sound to confuse the souls who have no knowledge/experience of and with the spirit, with those souls who do. The souls that do, can have the blessing of being able to go to heaven... while living. The goal though is the third heaven.

Good and evil are merely symptoms of a deeper problem. Ignorance vs wisdom are what causes these things. And yet, even ignorance vs wisdom also has it's root causes - those who accept rather than seek. Those without knowledge and wisdom to see the connection with god are poor in spirit because they don't recognize the spirit, so they are ignorant to it. Because they are ignorant to it, they do evil things. Bless them father for they know not what they do. Because when those people do know the truth - and they will - they would NOT do such a thing. As they would not do such a thing, then it is automatically forgiven and thus theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

The way you see these things is also the way I first thought it meant. I thought it meant they were poor in spirit on the earth and did bad things because the bulk of them were in heaven. Which when you realize all is one, is somewhat true. However, what I have come to understand is that there is a why and way for this.

Keeping in mind the differences between soul and spirit can be helpful.

Keep in mind that they are separated to begin with has always been the lie/veil.


[edit on 20-12-2008 by badmedia]

Originally posted by badmedia
The question as I see it however becomes - for what reason did I take on this reality in the first place, what did I want to learn, and have I learned all of that yet. Also the question of how exactly does 1 just "accept" these things to get back.

So I do see your destination as being correct. Of issue however is the path to get to it.

The only thing that can be learned in the realm of the unknown is how to not be Lord, all knowing. This is basically what the world teaches you...to deny your Self. So it seems now that there is a lord over you..."the world". From gravity to cavities, it seems there is alway something else beyond your control which dictates what you can do, how you should feel, what you should think.

Salvation is for unlearning what the "reality" of the world has taught you. Think of unlearning as a gradual acceptance, over a period of time, or a number of "lessons", in which your Lordship is restored to your awareness. Toward the end of your schooling, for example, you may turn a little water into wine, walk an water, heal the sick, raise the dead. These are all "lessons" that teach you that your magnitude [holiness] far transcends the limits imposed upon it by a world which teaches limitation. And this is why those who truly follow Jesus will learn to violate all the alledged "laws" of "the universe", simply by accepting the truth about themselves.

Acceptance of truth, although not dependent upon time, usually takes some time, because time has so perfectly destroyed your awareness of truth, having belittled you to not much more than a speck of dust which must feel what the body dictates you feel...think what your brain dictates you think.

A good first step toward acceptance is to accept that this has been a *mistake*...*meaningless*...*an exercise in futility*...*madness*. Another step may be to accept that it is also an expression of freedom and curiosity...for the hell of it. Why must there be a reason? Why must it make sense to you? What if it does not make sense to GoD? Can you accept that it is truly not understandable?

Truth is accepted as it is placed topmost in your mind, and repeatedly considered as you gradually learn to trust it. At first the truth may make you say, "hmmm....". At last, you come to accept it as the truth, and nothing else as the truth which is not the truth.

The truth is attractive. As you grow to appreciated it...to be grateful for it...your willingness to let it be the truth will increase. Watered with gratefulness, desire for the truth will increase. Faith follows gratefulness and desire. This is because you believe what you want. You will believe the truth because you want it to be true. And believing, you will "see" that it is true.

The experience of ignorance of lordship was fueled by desire, and brought to you by faith. It was brought by faith because it could not be brought by the truth. Look at the world and see it as evidence of an ancient desire. Hot at first, it is now cooling, and your desire that it be true is gradually dying. Merely encourage the death of your desire that the world be true and real, and be grateful that you are awakening to yet a stronger desire that only the truth be true.

Also, accept that the world is built on a false premise [ie. "sand"]. It is only as you let the hot faith in the premise die that the images and appearances of the world begin to fade. Believe it or not, there is another world that you can see. It is not "heaven" or "home". But it reflects heaven. Understand that all sight is through mental filters. As Einstein noted, man's experience is a "delusion of conciousness". As you change your mind about the world of sin, another world will spring to your sight. This world will lead you home, as you come to accept the truth as the only experience you want.

Christ!


[edit on 20-12-2008 by Christ!]

Originally posted by badmedia
So I do see your destination as being correct. Of issue however is the path to get to it.

Step carefully, observantly along the path. Begin with an accurate assessment of where you seem to be, and where you are headed.

Also, if you must have a "reason" for choosing such a alt-"reality", know that it offers you everything that reality does not offer you. Reality does not offer you anything less than bliss. The world offers you everything but bliss. The world defines who you are in negative terms. As such, you are learning about yourSelf, by learning everything that you are nOt. Understand that this is nOt necessary...though in confusion, you think it is. *Our Father* has given you yourSelf complete. There is nothing you need to learn to be who you are, or prove yourSelf in anyway. You do not evolve into a "high" being.

Think of "life" in the world as *lies for feelings*. You have "come" for the feelings that Reality knOws nOt. How does it feel? Feel the feelings. Feel them fully. For when you return home, you will feel them no more, and they will be gone for ever. So, satisfy your curiosity. The "path" is very much about how to most efficiently satisfy your curiosity, in a way that the experiences that seem to evoke the feelings do not repeat over and over for a long time. For that is to suffer. When you are insulted, feel the insult. Say to yourself, "hmmm....". Then let it go. Give it to the "Lord", with whom you gradually become one with as you let go of more and more of what does not define you as Lord. You can even give thanks for the feeling.

Keep in mind that all feelings are what you asked to experience...because as Lord...you must be given what you have asked. You seem nOt to have asked for ill feelings. But then, that is the experience of what it is like to not be the Lord...which is what the world was asked to teach you. So there is reason to give thanks, and to appreciate your mistakes. Your lordship is still - always - the truth, whether you are aware of it or not. So there is always cause for rejoicing. This attitude is the basis of "turn the other cheek". To turn the other cheek is to accept that you are the lord of anything that seems to "happen" to you. You are the lord of the first slap, and you will be the lord of the second slap. Feel the slap fully...until your curiosity about such feelings is satsified, and you can truly let all such experience go as what you do not want.

*Lies for feelings* are the seeming causes of what you feel. You feel hurt because someone seems to have slapped you. But the someone and the slap are lies. Their only purpose is for the feelings that they give you. It is the feelings that you are after. It matters not the apparent cause.

The world is *lies for feelings*. The world seems to cause the feelings you feel. No, no. Rather, the world exists in your imagination to *justify* the feelings brought on by it's false premise. So the world justifies separation, and justifies guilt, and justifies fear. This is all backwards. It teaches that you are not the Lord. Have faith in the truth, and your faith will be justified.



Christ!

[edit on 20-12-2008 by Christ!]

reply to post by badmedia


Hi, I didn't forget about you. We have had a wonderful and busy week full of out of town family visiting.

I hope that this explains to you why I was saying that the beatitudes are for those now living. The beatitudes are speaking of the spirit, not souls. The spirit is of God, the soul is not necessarily so.

But as Christ! says, you are assuming soul and spirit to not be the same.

Please do not put words in my mouth, nor presume that I assume. Why not instead ask me if that is what I think?

The soul is part of the overall spirit.

Yes, nothing would exist if not for the Christ Spirit whom came forth from the transcendent God.

They are not separate in truth, just separate in our perspective which gives us individuality(soul) within the spirit.

So, now you are agreeing with me! LOL

Yes, and also, the soul can be limited in it's own awareness too... unable to even be aware of the Spirit within. Those without this awareness have not yet been gifted with the connection wherein they have re-membered themselves and become One... connected.

Whom you are calling poor in spirit, to me, are the souls who do not yet know that God is inside them. Those souls who are still believers and who have yet to have the work begun in them finished.

If what you said is true, then those people who can see heaven would be rich in spirit, not poor in spirit. The pure of heart see god, not the poor in spirit.

The Sermon on the Mount begins in chapter 5 of Matthew and ends with the first verse of chapter 8. Within that sermon, Jesus says: all these things will be added to you.

"All these things will be added to you."

It is plain as day to me that the poor in spirit are those who have been given something... something has been added to them along with receiving a blessing. When this addition takes place, they are no longer unaware nor are all those others who are blessed for their quality of spirit received unaware.

Your dispute is with what Jesus said and how he said it; and due to this, are unable to grasp the truth of what he is speaking about.

Half the truth is often the greatest lie.

Indeed.

Of course he can do and say many wonderful and true things. But it doesn't change the fact that his methods were done in sin. As well, even a demon can tell you those things can they not? Tell you how to get to that level, as Jesus did in his example/path is another thing.

It is also another thing to actually understand all of what Jesus has said too.

Nobody ever answers the question - Why does the rich man get into heaven according to Paul and the church, but does not get into heaven according to Jesus.

Perhaps because your claim is not supported by scripture and appears to only be an opinion.

Since you have decided to use the bible, it would be helpful if you would provide scripture to back up your claims. So often I see you jumbling up several different concepts with the effect of coming to a questionable conclusion.

Why is the path of Paul and the church so broad, and the path of Jesus so narrow?

Why does Jesus say: "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. John 6:44

There's another reference to this in Revelation: 10I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet,

It's just not as clear as the other verse.

But this is talk of being poor in spirit. Your example is of someone rich in spirit. To get to such levels requires you to be rich in spirit. Are we to believe that Jesus was poor in spirit? I think not.

As I have put forth previously, those who have the kingdom of God rely solely on God. Jesus verifies this was the same for him. Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. John 5:19

The soul on earth, when joined with the Spirit, can and does travel to heaven. And those who are poor in spirit, to me, are those who rely solely on God and on nothing in this world.

The separation is not true, thus the deception/lie. There is no separation, it is the individual soul which has turned it's back on spirit and said that it is not of the spirit.

Is this what you did prior to your vision?

You turned your back on what you didn't know to exist?

Or were you just unaware?

When the soul is "joined with spirit" it is merely the soul recognizing the connection that was ALWAYS there.

That's true in potential; yet, you personally could not have given yourself that vision that allowed you to know this.

The potential for awareness is always there, but is it activated? And for you, from what you have said, it was activated due to your vision. It was a gift to you.

On that day you will realize that Jesus and the father are in you. That is the day you are no [s]longer poor in spirit[/s] (unaware), that is the day you see the truth, and after that truth is why you need to be comforted. There is the saying - you shall know the truth, and the truth will make you mad(jesus says free). And without the comforter that is exactly what the truth will make you. With the comforter and the wisdom it brings, it sets you free.

Yes, I know.

As I said, those who are [s]poor in spirit[/s] (unaware) are blessed because they have not seen the connection, and all their actions have been based because they have not seen that connection.

In this respect, the ignorant are innocent.


continued...

reply to post by badmedia


continuing on...

Upon the return when this truth is made apparent to all, and the veil is lifted will all these people return. Thus why Jesus first raises the dead - those who were [s]poor in spirit[/s] and did not waited in separation.

Right now it is occurring one individual at a time, therefore, in that respect Jesus is returning all the time to those ready.

"Thus why Jesus first raises the dead"

Originally posted by L.I.B.
Please do not put words in my mouth, nor presume that I assume. Why not instead ask me if that is what I think?
Yes, nothing would exist if not for the Christ Spirit whom came forth from the transcendent God.

So, now you are agreeing with me! LOL

Only if you believe your perspective is the true perspective. I would say your perspective, nor mine, is the true perspective, and while we may see them as separate, in reality they aren't. I didn't put words in your mouth, that is what you said. Christ! also seen you as saying such. If it's not what you meant, that's fine - just clarify. But nobody put words in your mouth.

The Sermon on the Mount begins in chapter 5 of Matthew and ends with the first verse of chapter 8. Within that sermon, Jesus says: all these things will be added to you.

"All these things will be added to you."

It is plain as day to me that the poor in spirit are those who have been given something... something has been added to them along with receiving a blessing. When this addition takes place, they are no longer unaware nor are all those others who are blessed for their quality of spirit received unaware.

Your dispute is with what Jesus said and how he said it; and due to this, are unable to grasp the truth of what he is speaking about.

I don't really care what you think about this, if you see and have a connection with god then you are not poor in spirit. PERIOD. How you can even suggest that someone who is poor in spirit has the biggest connection with god is beyond me. You used the present tense form in that sentence, and then I pointed out the same present tense for those who are persecuted. To have a personal relationship with god is to be rich in spirit. To have the holy spirit is to be rich in spirit, as it brings understanding and knowledge, the very things which is seen as riches in the eyes of god. Obviously, Jesus was not poor in spirit.

Perhaps because your claim is not supported by scripture and appears to only be an opinion.

Why do you lie and bear false witness? You know these things ARE in the scripture. You know Jesus talks about the narrow path, you know Jesus addresses the rich man who approaches him. And are you to say the church of today does not say that same rich man will get into heaven?

This is just dishonest and disgusting.

Since you have decided to use the bible, it would be helpful if you would provide scripture to back up your claims. So often I see you jumbling up several different concepts with the effect of coming to a questionable conclusion.

I honestly could care less about the bible. I didn't learn from it, I still don't learn from it. I only quote the bible for YOUR benefit. I use it as a way of being able to better communicate with you and other Christians. If I want to know something for myself, I'll just ask.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I got my knowledge and understanding from source. I was saying and knew the things Jesus said before I even knew Jesus said them. I was trying to explain how the universe works to people, and how there actually is a "path" and how that path should be followed to get to the destination. I tried to tell people god was inside them as John 14:20 says without the bible. I only share what I've learned because I CHOOSE to help others.

I do appreciate clarifications on the bible. I do appreciate help in explaining things better, so that I can explain them to people better. But you will not EVER deliver me up to the bible, nor will you EVER use the bible as an authority figure against me. If you want to choose to think I am wrong because of it - that is your choice. If you want to use it as a way of saying I'm wrong towards others - that is your choice. But you will never be able to get me to think I am wrong because of how you view it. Especially when you just use that I don't know it word for word as a general way of dismissing me as you have done here. If there are verses you would like to discuss, quote them. And if you don't remember the exact quotes, but remember the understanding and general story behind them, that works too. Only from understanding will you get me to change my mind, and I always welcome that.

I'm being blunt because these are things I was taught to watch out for. I will drop the bible and never quote it again before I am forced to it as a literal attachment. I will still keep talking truth to people without it though, just as I did before it.

Why does Jesus say: "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. John 6:44

He was answering a question because he said this.

40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

And of course, what is it said of those who believe? They walk the narrow path.

As I have put forth previously, those who have the kingdom of God rely solely on God. Jesus verifies this was the same for him. Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. John 5:19

So is it your claim that all the things men do in the name of God are relying solely on god? That the crusades, the dark ages, all that stuff they were relying on god for? And if this is true, then why do they act different than Jesus? God is going to tell people they need to sow death and destruction, and then tell Jesus the opposite of that? He gives Jesus a fish, and gave all those people a serpent? Nonsense!

It's simple. The person who is poor in spirit is the person who did not know the truth. They are blessed and theirs is the kingdom of heaven because once they do see the truth, they will choose it. Just as the only thing that can not be forgiven is to blasphemy against the holy spirit - but if you don't know the holy spirit, then you can't really blasphemy against it. It is those who do know the truth and then teach and get people to do otherwise who are not poor in spirit, they see the truth and ignore and go against it. They are able to blasphemy against the holy spirit because they know the holy spirit.

Once Jesus(truth) comes to that person who is poor in spirit, then they will choose the truth and that will be the end of it. They only did what they did because they did not know the truth. They were poor in spirit. If they were already in heaven, Jesus(truth) wouldn't need to come down to get them, they would just do it on their own. Because then the father will draw them as per your previous John6:44 quote. Just as I seen not Jesus, but the father.

Is this what you did prior to your vision?

You turned your back on what you didn't know to exist?

Or were you just unaware?

Yes and no. There were times when I did, and times when I didn't. Only after am I able to see which times I truly did and didn't, as I had no real understanding before. I knew things I did were "wrong" but really only because it was said, and even then with no understanding of why it seemed silly. Of course, what did lead me to where I got was to seek out real understanding and answers. I was already looking at things from other perspectives and such years before I seen the real truth. I learned and seen the evil and knew why it was wrong. I knew and seen things weren't right etc. But only later do I realize why. I'm sure you know the Shakespeare quote about all the worlds a stage and each man in his life plays many parts.

That's true in potential; yet, you personally could not have given yourself that vision that allowed you to know this.

The potential for awareness is always there, but is it activated? And for you, from what you have said, it was activated due to your vision. It was a gift to you.

I had to seek. Everything I've needed has been provided for me, and in that way I have been blessed and that was surly given to me. But it has been up to me to seek it out, up to me to make my own decisions, and up to me to live with those decisions. What is and has been provided and given to me are the tools needed to do that correctly.

In this respect, the ignorant are innocent.

Well yeah. Just like any child.

Originally posted by L.I.B.
Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 1 John 2:22

For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh This is the deceiver and the antichrist. 2 John 1:7

There's a couple more verses about the antichrist. Tell me again, what is it that the antichrist does?

With all your knowledge, I have seen you say that you didn't even know if Jesus was real and that you didn't care if he was or not. No matter for: "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. Matthew 12:32

I said it doesn't matter if it's real or not, it's as real as anything else in this world. More real than the things reported on the news, thats for sure. If he walked the earth and did all those things, doesn't really matter to me. I did not see it, I don't know. If you could prove it was made up, I would not care. If you can prove it's real, all the better. I heard the words of the father, not Jesus. The understandings provided by Jesus is proof to me that he did too, and if it was written and made up, then whoever did it also must have - either way, it doesn't change the truth. I don't deny Jesus, far from it. I just think the entire discussion on "proving" it's real is beside the point.

The anti-Christ of revelations tries to take the place of god on earth. Yes, there are many smaller ones, but they all do or work towards these goals in general but the one of revelations is the figurehead of it all.

Jesus didn't say Bless them father... he said: Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.

Fail to see the difference. If they are forgiven, are they not blessed?

Are you saying that you had spiritual knowledge and wisdom prior to your vision? Wasn't it only after receiving this vision that you actually had the connection? As well as a degree of spiritual knowledge and wisdom?

I answered this before, it's all a matter of perspective. If we go by what I knew as I knew it, then it was before and after. If we go by what I know now, then it was immediately after I started seeking.

...[s]are poor in spirit[/s] (unaware souls) because they don't recognize the spirit, so they are ignorant to it. Because they are ignorant to it, they do evil things.

The soul who sins will die. (Ezekiel 18:4)


And this is why Jesus was sent, to show people the truth and example so that they will no longer sin. And when you do that, and when you accept that then you are forgiven, because it is no longer an issue as you will not sin anymore.

Yes, it is repentance that brings forgiveness.

Understanding bring forgiveness. Jesus didn't bring you repentance, he brought you understanding. Unless you view repentance as realizing why you were wrong and then working to no longer do it again, but to do that requires understanding of why you were wrong. Does the man who cheats on his wife over and over and says sorry each and every time, buys her flowers and gifts each and every time, and does good things for that person each and every time really fell sorry for the things he has done when he goes and does it again? He's only sorry that he got caught. That is not to ask for forgiveness. If you are truly sorry for something then you will understand why it is wrong and then work to not do it anymore. At which point you are immediately forgiven. This gets easier for us in time as we work towards it, especially as temptations lose their flavor, and experience(an ingredient of wisdom) is gained.

Or maybe comforted, or will see God, or will be called the sons of God, etc.

If they see God, then they are not poor in spirit. Those who mourn are comforted. And how many deny any one other than Jesus is a son of God?

However, I was speaking about understanding the bible, which you have decided to use. Such as all those things that are added to a person, the spirit, and are thereby blessed for the quality of Spirit they have received.

I replied to this kind of stuff before. It's not about understanding the bible, it's about understanding the truth. The bible is just a tool that can be helpful and a good reference for understanding the truth. It can also do the opposite. But the bible in it's literal form or how anyone perceives it should not be put above one's own understanding of the truth.

I give you understanding on what it means to be poor in spirit, I give you understanding on why things say what they do. I don't just say them for no reason. Again, give me understanding on why you disagree with me.

All is One. All, as of yet, has not been connected, with awareness, as a veil lies between their soul and spirit. Their minds have not been illumned.

When Adam and Eve lost their bodies of light, they tried to hide themselves. The journey ever since then has been to be given those robes again.

And, it is given. This, I think, you tend to forget.

All has always been connected, only the awareness of it is gone with the veil. So we are pretty close in agreement.

However, when you put a pair of pants on, they don't instantly appear on you, you still gotta put them on 1 leg at a time. And sitting around waiting for them to just appear on you isn't going to get them on you very fast.

Originally posted by L.I.B.
Yes, nothing would exist if not for the Christ Spirit whom came forth from the transcendent God.

What you say exists, is nothing. It does not exist but that the truth is drained of power. The only existence it has is the power of faith...power bled from Christ, and used to get drunk on power.

Consciousness, energy, "adamantine particles", quarks, electrons, Higgs boson...these do not exist but by faith because they are not the truth. They are tools of magic. Wishing, judgement and faith are also tools of magic, and do not exist but by magic.

"Christ consciousness" is a machine-mind that takes its existence from Christ, replacing Christ with itself, and its way of thinking. It is spawned of the idea of *different*, *separate*, *special*, *other than*. And as it was begotten, so it begets. In this way, the "many" breaks the "one", masquerading as the "many and one".

Once you understand this, you can understand the "Lord's Supper", and partake in such a way that it saves you, and does not condemn you. You are saved as you accept that your existence comes at the expense of the one Self...the one Soul. You are condemned as you endeavor to suck the life blood of Christ-Soul to empower another soul that is different, separate, special or other than the Soul of Christ...that you may "exist" definitively.

The aquisition of a glorified body, a "light body", or any other kind of body that does not encompass the totality of everything...the aquisition of such things is its own worst punishment...and symbolizes the condemnation of Christ, that what is nOt Christ may "live". The desire for limitation, and self-concepts fools you. Otherwise, you could not be fooled. Should you gain the entirety of "Christ consciousness", you would "gain the whole world". But it would "cost" you your Soul, because it comes at the expense of your Soul.

You are on the path of Paul who was fooled by his desire for a glorified body that was special, different, other than, and ranked among a heirarchy. This is kabbala. Kabbala is dished out by "Christ consciousness", pretending to be Christ, or above Christ, and spoon fed to certain select who align with its agenda with their desires.

Slick, smooth, eloquent, erudite, confident, intelligent, ingenious...words are massaged maniacally into the mainstream. The word of consciousness masks itself as the "word of God", and reinterpreting every teaching aid given by Truth, twists and turns them beyond recognition, that they may serve it's purposes, and not the Truth. So it goes, that it may "live" off the "death" of the Truth.

Consciousness gives you what you desire. And as you desire what is false, you drain yourself of power, hurt, and imprison yourself. This is the effect of magic. Magic has brought you thus far. Do you really think it can elevate your status for long? Reason would tell you that to continue with magic is to further weaken yourself, and bring hell on your head. Can a combination of "you" and "Christ consciousness" really empower you, when such combinations have already betrayed you, landing you in the land of limitation?

Christ!


[edit on 26-12-2008 by Christ!]

Originally posted by Christ!

Originally posted by L.I.B.
Yes, nothing would exist if not for the Christ Spirit whom came forth from the transcendent God.

What you say exists, is nothing. It does not exist but that the truth is drained of power. The only existence it has is the power of faith...power bled from Christ, and used to get drunk on power.

Consciousness, energy, "adamantine particles", quarks, electrons, Higgs boson...these do not exist but by faith because they are not the truth. They are tools of magic. Wishing, judgement and faith are also tools of magic, and do not exist but by magic.

...

Once you understand this, you can understand the "Lord's Supper", and partake in such a way that it saves you, and does not condemn you. You are saved as you accept that your existence comes at the expense of the one Self...the one Soul.

...

The aquisition of a glorified body, a "light body", or any other kind of body that does not encompass the totality of everything...the aquisition of such things is its own worst punishment...and symbolizes the condemnation of Christ, that what is nOt Christ may "live"...

... Should you gain the entirety of "Christ consciousness", you would "gain the whole world". But it would "cost" you your Soul, because it comes at the expense of your Soul.

I know.

You are on the path of Paul who was fooled by his desire for a glorified body that was special, different, other than, and ranked among a heirarchy. This is kabbala. Kabbala is dished out by "Christ consciousness", pretending to be Christ, or above Christ, and spoon fed to certain select who align with its agenda with their desires.

Slick, smooth, eloquent, erudite, confident, intelligent, ingenious...words are massaged maniacally into the mainstream. The word of consciousness masks itself as the "word of God", and reinterpreting every teaching aid given by Truth, twists and turns them beyond recognition, that they may serve it's purposes, and not the Truth. So it goes, that it may "live" off the "death" of the Truth.

Christ!

Thank you for your judgment/opinion incorrect as it may be.

"Christ consciousness" is a mind that takes its existence from Christ, replacing Christ with itself, and its way of thinking. It is spawned of the idea of *different*, *separate*, *special*, *other than*. And as it was begotten, so it begets. In this way, the "many" breaks the "one", masquerading as the "many and one".

So why are you still here? What are you doing that is any different?

Originally posted by L.I.B.
Thank you for your judgment/opinion incorrect as it may be.

So why are you still here? What are you doing that is any different?

Think of me as a messenger whose judgement means nothing unless it is aligned with the judgement of Christ. In this way, I do not judge, Christ judges for me, until the "last judgement", when judgement is no more. In this way, Christ uses what was made to condemn him - judgement - to turn the tables on the gOd of this world. As such, the gOd of this world has been judged, as suggested in the pop gospel of John, and the judgement is this:

"Christ consciousness" does not exist. The gOd of this world does not exist. And so all of it's effects: perception, energy, dimensions, levels of mind, dominions, powers, time, events, circumstances, mass, distance, speed, forms, "souls" and symbols. Man is one of its symbols, so man does not exist.

This is the judgement of Christ, not mine.

Why am I still here? Why was Jesus still teaching after a voice came from Heaven saying, "This is my beloved Son, hear him"? I am destined to fulfill a role in the salvation of the Son of God which no other can fulfill. To that end, I am in the process [atonement, baptism] of laying down my so-called "life", that I may "take it up again" as Christ, that my part in the atonement may be fulfilled. Without my part, the Son of God would not be saved from his self-concepts.

Why am I still here? I am "dying"...can't you tell? A self-concept is dying. But how can it die when it was never really alive? Rather, I am coming alive to Christ...and setting an example along the way.

Christ!





[edit on 26-12-2008 by Christ!]

reply to post by Christ!

The gOd of this world does not exist. And so all of it's effects: perception, energy, dimensions, levels of mind, dominions, powers, time, events, circumstances, mass, distance, speed, forms, "souls" and symbols. Man is one of its symbols, so man does not exist.

Still quite a convincing illusion isn't it? Move through any "seemingly" solid objects or see through them lately?

Why am I still here? Why was Jesus still teaching after a voice came from Heaven saying, "This is my beloved Son, hear him"? I am destined to fulfill a role in the salvation of the Son of God which no other can fulfill. To that end, I am in the process [atonement, baptism] of laying down my so-called "life", that I may "take it up again" as Christ, that my part in the atonement may be fulfilled. Without my part, the Son of God would not be saved from his self-concepts.

Ah, to help free those caught in the illusion. But what does it matter if it is all an illusion? Afterall, you said: "Christ consciousness" does not exist.

Why am I still here? I am "dying"...can't you tell? A self-concept is dying. But how can it die when it was never really alive? Rather, I am coming alive to Christ...and setting an example along the way.

From the way you are talking, I would think that you would have been assumed into the rainbow light as the Buddhists have been known to do, or maybe as Elijah was and then wasn't... POOF into the ineffable in the case of the former or into the upper realms as it was for the latter.

But, since you haven't and are still enmeshed in the illusion too, as you come alive to Christ, what kind of consciousness will you have? What kind of body will you then have? True, the labels don't matter, but just for the "illusion's" want for definition, please advise.




[edit on 27-12-2008 by L.I.B.]

reply to post by badmedia


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Trying again...

[edit on 27-12-2008 by L.I.B.]

reply to post by badmedia

The Sermon on the Mount begins in chapter 5 of Matthew and ends with the first verse of chapter 8. Within that sermon, Jesus says: all these things will be added to you.

"All these things will be added to you."

It is plain as day to me that the poor in spirit are those who have been given something... something has been added to them along with receiving a blessing. When this addition takes place, they are no longer unaware nor are all those others who are blessed for their quality of spirit received unaware.

Your dispute is with what Jesus said and how he said it; and due to this, are unable to grasp the truth of what he is speaking about.

I don't really care what you think about this, ...

That's fine; you don't have to. Nor do you have to strive to figure out why Christ Jesus said "all these things will be added to you" as well as why he is speaking in present tense about those blessings.

See how easy it is for those whom you say are deceived to just go right past anything that doesn't line up with what they think?

Since you have decided to use the bible, it would be helpful if you would provide scripture to back up your claims. So often I see you jumbling up several different concepts with the effect of coming to a questionable conclusion.

I honestly could care less about the bible. I didn't learn from it, I still don't learn from it.

It was written specifically for those with revelations. So, really, that is truly unfortunate that you have deemed yourself either as unteachable or as already knowing it all.

I only quote the bible for YOUR benefit.

Well, isn't that considerate and thoughtful. Yet, when I ask you to do so, you don't. Like in my last post, I asked: "Thus why Jesus first raises the dead"