Religion causing society to regress

I was reading today in my book that studies have shown that a constant radical outlook on religion is actually causing a regression of mankind. This is due to how the radicals interpret the bible any way they want, then claim their interpretations are literal truth. Sadly, most americans are so poorly educated in mythology, theology, and ancient history that they get excited when a preacher preaches human origin and they actually believe it with no further research of anything else.

Human regression, they found, is also due to what they call catastophobia.
This primary phobia blocks the human mind, reduces intelligence, and has profoundly retarded the progress of human evolution.
You could say that monotheistic religion only fuels this fire....Armagedeon

Well, while I agree that religion could indeed cause a society to regress, and set themselves back by decades... I would imagine that is relatively difficult...

Organized Religion is slowly dying... I know people will cry foul on this statement, but it is true... and I am positive census statistics will show this trend yet again in 2010.

The organized religions know this... hence the huge push for new membership, which is why you are hearing more and more religious talk lately... it isn't so much that the religions are growing, as a marked increase in the noise levels generated by those organized religions.

Some estimates predict almost a complete "death" within the next 2 or 3 generations... the majority of churches are filled with aging patrons... not too many young members. The children are the future of the religion.

With that being said, it would appear reason will win in the long run... so I'm not entirely too worried about regressing too far as a society...

I suspect there is a correlation between the dominance of radical religion and low standards in public education.

For a country to do well the poorest must be lifted up through good education so that all can be productive members of the community.

Uneducated people who are alienated by society, who do not have decent food, health-care or jobs are going to find a way to escape their situation.
Many will turn to drugs, crime or radical religion.

Everyone, except for the half dozen or so families who think they own the country, does better when a larger proportion of the community are living productive, fulfilling lives.

The better educated people are, the more they will question authoritarian dogma.
The happier people are the less they need to believe in a God of Vengeance.

I believe this is why the religious right has starved public education for funds and wants to push creationist teaching onto schools.

Well, common sense tells me you are wrong. And what exactly do you mean as a society? Our social skills or progress techonologically speaking?

Fact is, religion is getting smaller, even my parents stopped going to church and they preached it as if it were the only thing important while I was growing up. Church memberships are getting smaller, I can tell by the church up the hill. The number of cars for mass are shrinking.

Yet, if you think religion is growing, we are still evolving technologically. Religion has been around for thousands of years, yet we still move on. However, one may argue that we are slacking in the social area, but that would also depend on your perspective. As in, are we progressing because we go out more, drink more, do more drugs and sleep around more? Is that progress? Or is it really no worse off in that aspect than before.

The only advantage Science has over religion is that it changes. Religion has purposely not been allowed to evolve. And by evolve, I don't mean something new, but evolve into better understandings of what is being told, and how they apply to our lives.

I would say this is directly responsible to the fact we have evolved technologically so much, but relatively little in spirituality. Which even according to religion - will happen and does lead to the demise of ourselves.

This is exactly the same issue and problem Jesus ran into with the pharisees. The pharisees kept strict interpretations of the written word, and when people questioned it, they used their authority to bash people down and get people to stop questioning. When Jesus encountered them, they would argue with him because the understanding Jesus brought didn't agree with their traditions. Even today we still have this problem, and the church consists of these same people. Jesus called them hypocrites, and no doubt the church of today is full of hypocrites. They actually go against the teachings of Jesus even though they preach the words simply because they do not understand.

Science works on a single level - action and reaction. When things do not meet those criteria Science by it's very nature breaks down. Quantum physics is all but destroying conventional physics simply because it does attempt to do these things, and at the same time is held back because of traditional science. Countless times we see this. Imagine if all science were to cease to further tomorrow, and the only understandings allowed were those of today. That is what has been done to religion, and by design.

But Science is not suited for handling what consciousness brings - reason, understanding and choice. These in their nature go against what can be proven repeatable in a lab. This most directly affects humans, as we are consciousness. Science simply can not handle choice. Its only understanding action and reaction, and that in itself brings forth theories of authority(those who create the action) over the rest (those who react). You put these principles in place over the things religion handles, and woe to you.

We need both. Science is great at explaining action and reaction. Religion - if understood, is great at explaining reason, understanding, choice and the results of consciousness, and what it means to be an "observer".

So religion is not the problem. It's the people who have kept religion and it's understandings regressed that are the problem. If people completely throw out religion - it's progress for them. If it is kept literal instead of understood - it's progress for them. If you actually understand and make your choices based on understanding, instead of reacting to their actions - then you are free and that is not progress for them.




[edit on 26-11-2008 by badmedia]

I disagree with you Badmedia .
Religion has changed drastically in the last five or so years .
You now have all the Rick Warrens (all the fluffy feely preaching) and many religions are joining up with the Interfaith crowd ....
so it is changing .... ...a falling away from the faith of the One True God and his son Jesus Christ is happening in just about all denominations ..they have all gone PC ...and are now playing the harlot and committing adultry by joining up with the Interfaith crowds (Merging all religions into one) ......just like the bible said would happen ...

instantly while reading this opening thread my mind was filled with thoughts that i have been pondering for a long time now


radicals just interpretting religion to work for them and their ideas

i mean the language the original scripts were in,

how many people can really read that, and how many people actually have??

theres sooo much that gets lost in translation with everything how can we take something like 2000+ year old scripts word for word

when even the words we are interpreting are from interpreted sources?

the movie lost in translation is a good medium to see how easily that phrase can become true

i mean american figures of speech can mean a good thing in the usa, but be completely derogatory in another culture

its insane we can wage wars worldwide over interpreted beliefs and translations


and to the person who said religion hasnt changed

it has, for one quick example, just look at the catholic church and its views on the beatles music or their views on extra terrestrial's


i think it would be interesting to do a modern day interpretation of the original works of the different books of scriptures throughout modern day religions and see if the ideas still hold up the same

Originally posted by Simplynoone
I disagree with you Badmedia .
Religion has changed drastically in the last five or so years .
You now have all the Rick Warrens (all the fluffy feely preaching) and many religions are joining up with the Interfaith crowd ....
so it is changing .... ...a falling away from the faith of the One True God and his son Jesus Christ is happening in just about all denominations ..they have all gone PC ...and are now playing the harlot and committing adultry by joining up with the Interfaith crowds (Merging all religions into one) ......just like the bible said would happen ...

Superficial change is what that is. That is not the kind of change I am talking about.

The change I am referring to is changes that help people better understand the reasons why things were done as such, why they are important to follow, and how to best apply the understandings to life/society. In all religions.

I'm not in favor of a 1 world religion. Mainly because the only way such a thing could/would happen is through force or manipulation, and would likely just be a bunch of do as I say without much understanding. I am in favor of people understanding what things mean on a decent level. I don't hate other religions, what I understand of them they teach the same basic understandings.

Originally posted by Dramey
instantly while reading this opening thread my mind was filled with thoughts that i have been pondering for a long time now

radicals just interpretting religion to work for them and their ideas

i mean the language the original scripts were in,

how many people can really read that, and how many people actually have??

theres sooo much that gets lost in translation with everything how can we take something like 2000+ year old scripts word for word

when even the words we are interpreting are from interpreted sources?

the movie lost in translation is a good medium to see how easily that phrase can become true

i mean american figures of speech can mean a good thing in the usa, but be completely derogatory in another culture

its insane we can wage wars worldwide over interpreted beliefs and translations


and to the person who said religion hasnt changed

it has, for one quick example, just look at the catholic church and its views on the beatles music or their views on extra terrestrial's


i think it would be interesting to do a modern day interpretation of the original works of the different books of scriptures throughout modern day religions and see if the ideas still hold up the same

The meanings of the text are for the most part the same through translations. Sometimes words get a bit mixed up, but the individual words aren't the important thing, it's the understandings in the stories that is important.

As I mentioned before, when I talk about change and evolving in the religion I am not talking about replacing this word with that word. Or changing what it believes. The things in the bible are correct when understood. As Jesus says - he didn't come to change the laws, but to fulfill them(following them and bringing understanding to them). For the religion to evolve it needs to take the existing truth and work and find ways to bring out the understanding in people better. The dogmatic ways of literal reading turns people off like crazy, not to mention the extreme things those people do as a result. These people do not understand Jesus who they worship, and as a result don't do the right things.

What the church does in terms of the beetles is not change, it's just superficial fluff for their image. They have a bad image and they are doing nothing more than trying to improve the image. Just like they came out with the stuff about ET's being brothers, agree or disagree it was really nothing more than a PR stunt to keep as much business as possible. When they stop with the dogmatic preachings which are only dogmatic because they don't understand - then that is progress.

reply to post by SlyFox_79


Yes organised religion has harrassed and persecuted a lot of society's enlightened freethinkers down the years - the first example that springs to mind how the Vatican dealt with Giodanio Bruno.
This very intelligent and enlightened man was burnt alive at the stake for his 'heretical' and 'blasphemous' scientific,Copernican views.
I wonder how far we would have progressed along now if it was not for religion threatening and intimidating many objective freethinkers like Bruno,Galileo,Darwin,Copernicus etc... down the years?

I think the crux of this intolerance is deeply rooted insecurity-If I was a betting man I'd put my money on
'objective,enlightened freethinking'
rather than
'fear and ignorance based on superstition' any day.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

I disagree with the point from the OP if Im understanding the stance correctly.

Religion has caused more separation, bloodshed, pride, greed and war then any other factor in history. Religion has CAUSED the regression.

If any teaching teaches separation, it is a deception.
If any teaching teaches to shed blood in Gods name, it is a deception.
If any teaching teaches man that only some men are to be proud, this goes back to deception for separation.
If any teaching shows a greedy God, it is a deception (there is no reason for the most High to be greedy, for THEE IS ALL.
If any teaching claims a history of war and teaches a future war, it is a deception.

The serpent has been ever so sly to make us all believe that Gods way is separation amongst man kind, along with the bloodshed, pride, greed and war in the name of God.

The regression is coming to an end...the divine beings are coming and teaching...peace.

Why didn't Jesus fight?????

It is not because he HAD to die....its because a righteous man wont even kill in his own defense....God will not lower Theeself to our human ways of problem solving through war and killing.

My fear is that all the Bible thumpers wont even be able to allow this to happen. Same as when we killed the Christ. The whole fear of 'OH MY GOD< A NEW WORLD ORDER< OH MY GOD< IT MUST BE THE ANTICHRIST

Mabey I agree more with the OP then what I thought.

"Religion causing society to regress"-Yes, I agree, its been a long ugly road.

Am I reading your stance correctly? If not, pls clarify...

reply to post by nj2day


I agree with one thing you said... ORGANIZED RELIGION is bad, I equate them to Organized Crime and an Extortion racket. I love God and the Bible and I read it daily, however I can not find one church in 12 years in the Denver area that actually teaches the Bible. They all teach as you say their own twisted interpretation of a simple message, I think this is the reason for the fall in church goers. Organized Religion turns people off from God and the Bible and they may be doing it on purpose, who knows.

Let me give you an example of what my friends went through in Minnesota with the Catholic Church they used to attend. They stopped going and after about a year of not going they got a bill i the mail from their Church saying they owed the Church so much money for the last years tithes they hadn't paid. Guess what they did when my friend ignore the bill? The Catholic Church sent the bill to a collection agency and put it on y friends credit report, can you believe that crap?

Edited for the example

[edit on 11/26/2008 by theindependentjournal]

Leave those who want to go back to the dark ages go there, the rest of us will be laughing at them from our air conditioned flying cars as they pull over to let there horse rest.

Here is what I was in disagreement with

'The ones who interpret the Bible any way they want'.

I find the opposite, the ones that take it literally word for word are the ones that have held us in regression.


I think there are many that are interpreting the Bible the way it is meant to be, and that is weighing the good from the bad.

Do we serve a wrathful God who looses hope and doesnt create a path for all to find their way?

Do we serve a God who wont ever demand we serve him, through the teachings of what a 'offering' is and what coming our of ones 'free will' is, a humble soul understands, God is patient, mercy and grace?

LV

reply to post by LeoVirgo


This is a good point and I agree, it's people mistranslating or misinterpreting an easy message. God is Love, be kind and don't harm another person without cause.

I went to churches looking for one that I could attend here in Denver area and nearly everyone of them gave a message of if you don;t do it their way your going to hell. This is absurd and anti-Biblical as the Bible says that God judges each of the souls on the Light they knew and he also says in his WORD. "Love covers a multitude of sins."

To e this means very simply if you truly love your fellow man you're probably going to heaven no matter what you believed and whether you were dunked in water or not and whether you gave money to the church or not etc...

As I said Organized Religion is an anathema to Gods WORD in most cases I have found. That is why I read the Bible and don't attend a church. I have a wife to guilt me up if I need that, HA!

reply to post by theindependentjournal


I too read the Bible, I have about 6 of them and use the topical Bible to search words and root words. I grew up in a easy going church and I thought I understood the Bible word for word...but something wasnt right. I understood it from a human point of view, but not from a Godly point of view. I do find great truths and great lessons in the Bible...but it also led me to understand...we are to weigh all things, even the nature of God. Seek it with all the heart...dont just take someones word for it that he is a God of wrath (fear fear fear).

This past summer I took my kids to Bible school. Its been over 4 yrs. since I have went to church. Dont get me wrong, I talk to my children about God and Jesus and spirituality is highly respected in my home...but 2 days after the Bible school thing, my daughter(10 yrs old) cried herself to sleep in thinking she was going to hell. I have studied the Bible more in the last 4 yrs. then ever in my whole life put together. My spirit has soared higher then it ever has.

So our church is our home, our temples are our bodies, our actions are of love and peace...do more for others then yourself kinda ways.

I havent been back since.
Peace,
LV

Originally posted by badmedia
What the church does in terms of the beetles is not change, it's just superficial fluff for their image. They have a bad image and they are doing nothing more than trying to improve the image. Just like they came out with the stuff about ET's being brothers, agree or disagree it was really nothing more than a PR stunt to keep as much business as possible. When they stop with the dogmatic preachings which are only dogmatic because they don't understand - then that is progress.

The Church did NOT forgive John Lennon, the Church did NOT condemn John Lennon in the first place. His morality and messaged may have been questioned by individual ministers, for fairly good reasons. What appeared in the Vatican Newspaper was an editorial celebrating 40 years since the release of the White Album, appreciating the quality and longevity of their music and in passing mentioning the controversy over Lennon's comments about the Beatles and Jesus. The Pope did not write the editorial, the editor of the newpaper did. But, don't let me saying this prevent others repeating this over and over again as fact.

And if faith hasn't progressed over the last 2,000 years then you must have missed the memo about the Trinity, the Divnity of Christ, The Immaculate Conception and the Assumption, to name a few. Oh and about 40 years ago there was quite an important meeting that took place in Rome called the Second Vatican Council, worth a read.

reply to post by Supercertari


Change and progress are not always the same thing. If science said the earth is flat tomorrow, that is change but not progress.

I don't know about the Lennon thing, was just replying to what someone said. I don't pay much attention to that. Someone else who pays attention to that stuff can argue with you about that if they want.

I have to disagree with the OP simply based on the term "regression". We have to have progressed in order to regress, and as a society things have been much the same for at least 2,000 years. Societal progression is not about political ideology but rather on how society works or doesn't.

So I ask, when have we ever as a society progressed beyond the point of baseless materialism, racism, violence, poor education, poverty, crime or any other of societies ills?

[edit on 26-11-2008 by TravelerintheDark]