The Promised Land

Originally posted by Prima Facie
Whats really interesting is, according to the bible Joshua only ascended half way up the mountain where the ten commandments were revealed. after Moses(PBUH) death, joshua claims moses instructed him to go into canaan and take the land. So joshua slaughtered every living thing in canaan. My question is? Did moses really tell joshua this, or could joshua have thought more on the lines of, our prophet has died we are homeless more or less, lets go into canaan??

I like this question and cannot say one way or another. It might explain why he was defeated. Perhaps this shows my lack of understanding in this part of the Bible, it is the most difficult for me. Looking forward to the answers though.

This thread is all about speculation, considering the things that were not written. Love to have these discussions and believe some questions were intentionally not answered for us.

[edit on 26-11-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God


I dont know the answer either, another important question is the canaanites did not know of the ten commandments because they were not present at the mountain, as far as we know,so did joshua show the canaanites the ten commandments or did he just go in and kill innocent people...

Originally posted by miriam0566
where did ashley say that? im confused...

LOL. I didn't. He rephrased the original question after it was answered to make it look like I had said those people were created just to die.

Edit to add: I just saw the second post as well. Still something I never said. Victorious in battle, yes. Committing genocide because they were favored, no. That is a gross twisting of my post. I completely avoided the cause issue since he made it clear that is not what he was interested in when other people responded to that issue.

[edit on 11/26/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by Prima Facie
I dont know the answer either, another important question is the canaanites did not know of the ten commandments because they were not present at the mountain, as far as we know,so did joshua show the canaanites the ten commandments or did he just go in and kill innocent people...

It seems clear he did not sit the canaanites down for a class, however the argument could be made that the canaanites knew they were not to replace God and yet did. This digs back further from Genesis. Even though the Tower of Babel was torn down and people spoke different languages, they all knew prior to the event who God was and the price of affronting Him. What's also interesting in this section of the Bible were the conditions and directions such as (paraphrasing) "Go into this town. They will welcome you there. When you go to this town, speak with so-and-so, if he lets you stay, stay, if not move on." It seems almost like tests not only for the Israelites, but the citizenry and/or leadership of these towns.

Do innocent people die? Yes, all the time. Does God treat them fairly afterwards? Yes, all the time.

For us, death is the worst possible thing. For God, it's one step in the process.

[edit on 26-11-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God

And you know this...how?

Its called research.

Originally posted by jakyll
Its called research.

It must be nice to make claims without citation. When successful, please tell me how it is done because currently I know all things I say that have any shadow of a doubt requires reference. The implication of your assertion is that I do not do research, to which I suggest you contact the university that granted my bachelor's degree and notify the company I work for who hired me on the premise of research to have me prompty removed before I cause any misrepresentative damage.

[edit on 26-11-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Prima Facie
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

Interesting, I thought Jesus(pbuh) was the only son of god, so god had other son's too. It's all quite confusing.. Not that i believe jesus(pbuh) was the son of god. As i believe god had no children. Though i do believe jesus was god's spiritual son, like all the prophets..

Jesus was GODS only BEGOTTEN SON ..


Here is what Strongs says about the sons of God in Gen 6
1) son, grandson, child, member of a group

a) son, male child

b) grandson

c) children (pl. - male and female)

d) youth, young men (pl.)

e) young (of animals)

f) sons (as characterisation, i.e. sons of injustice [for un- righteous men] or sons of God [for angels]

g) people (of a nation) (pl.)

h) of lifeless things, i.e. sparks, stars, arrows (fig.)

i) a member of a guild, order, class


Begotten
1) single of its kind, only

a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)

b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God


Son
www.blueletterbible.org...

The Bible does repeat on many occasions "one and only Son" as well.

If you throw out those parts, may as well throw the whole thing out.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." - John 3:16

"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." - John 3:18

"This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him." - 1 John 4:9

reply to post by Simplynoone


THE Bible also say's

Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
Job 2:1
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.
Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

The sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. All the sons of God shouted for joy when the morning stars sang together. Scientifically speaking, there are no morning stars or night stars; stars are stars. Also, stars do not sing.

www.articlesbase.com...

Originally posted by Prima Facie
THE Bible also say's

Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
Job 2:1
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.
Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

My Bible doesn't say this. It says:

"One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them." - Job 1:6

"On another day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them to present himself before him." - Job 2:1

"while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?" - Job 38:7

I can say the version I'm using was translated from original Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic texts with over a hundred scholars in a ten year period (www.ibs.org...) . Which version are you using?

[edit on 26-11-2008 by saint4God]

From here..

bible.cc...

you think hell is unfair? so do i. so does the bible. however the bible does mention unrepentant sinners being destroyed in a lake of fire.

if you are saying that god is inmoral for destroying a person that refuses to love his fellow man, then what do you propose doing to him?

Don’t know really but I’m sure burning them to death in a lake of fire wouldn’t be one of my first ideas………………….

you could put him in prison for all eternity, but lets face it, im sure he would rather die than put up with an eternity confinement. besides the fact that it doesnt seem fair.

It seems more fair to kill him then to keep him alive for ever??
We have prison for one main reason to put away people who commit crime, the sentence (usually or at least it should) lasts as long until the criminal realized his done something wrong and feels sorry for it - rehabilitation. Then they should be allowed to leave. Simple justice system right.

If you send them to hell to die they can’t atone now can they? If he’s in prison forever, he’s eventually going to realize his done something wrong and change for the better. The death penalty doesn’t give you that option of repent.

if god made us, are you saying he is incapable of judging us?

Well of course there’s nothing I can do about it, if god wants to judge me, to strike me down then he will. – it’s up to him. Just like I can judge people for the bad things they do, but that judgment doesn’t mean I’m going to stab my sister just because she’s done something I dislike. I have a morals, I know what’s right and what’s wrong.

God may have the ability to judge me but just because he has the power to send me to hell doesn’t mean he should. If god is god, you’d think he’d have perfect morals but there god is commanding the Israelites to commit genocide.

[edit on 26-11-2008 by andre18]

Originally posted by Prima Facie
From here..

bible.cc...

I see, so NOT established from the original Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic texts by over a hundred scholars who spent a decade to get as close to accurate translation as possible. I can understand your confusion. The Oxford Study Bible was also problematic with translation, was used by universities, and is of course no longer in print.

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1227724820&sr=8-16

[edit on 26-11-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God


I did'nt know that, i am only a mere mortal the site claimed to be translated from various translations, so i thought it accurate.. I have in my possesion a old bible (not with me at present though) it was printed in the 50's it's catholic, i got it from a empty house i was working at. It has books in it that i've never heard of, i think these are all the apocrypha and such, with footnotes..In a few days i will post all the books in this bible, do you think you could tell me the authenticity of these if possible? thanks..

by the way i am not attacking any views , i am merely presenting what i have learned from study.. And hope to learn from fellow ATSers.....

reply to post by andre18

What God does and why shouldn't bother you at all as an atheist, so what is the problem?

Why concern yourself over something you don't believe in?

Why argue against something you don't believe exists?

Why argue against something that by your belief, never occurred?

If a God that doesn't exist, He couldn't have given an order to take a land, then the cleansing of the land never happened either, did it?

So what are you arguing?

"A scorner seeketh wisdom, and findeth it not." Prov. 14:6

reply to post by Prima Facie


You are ok. The NIV is about as inaccurate as any other bible that came from KJV on.

What God does and why shouldn't bother you at all as an atheist, so what is the problem?

Why concern yourself over something you don't believe in?

Why argue against something you don't believe exists?

Why argue against something that by your belief, never occurred?

Do you debate Muslims at about their faith at all? Do you debate atheists about why they disbelieve in god? I’m sure you do.
Why do you concern yourself over something you don’t believe?
Why argue against something you don't believe exists? Etc etc

If a God that doesn't exist, He couldn't have given an order to take a land, then the cleansing of the land never happened either, did it?

So what are you arguing?

Well you’re the one who believes it did, your faith is based on the OT. Of course I don’t believe the cleansing ever happened but I still like to point out to people who do believe such things that its utter rubbish to believe, as I’ve explained in this thread.

Even though I don’t believe in the bible that doesn’t mean I can’t debate those who do believe. It’s not so much that I’m concerned with the content of the bible, as I am concerned with the people who believe such stories could be true. The mentality of Christians is what interests me

reply to post by andre18

If a man doesn't believe in something, and yet argues against it, what profit is there? How can one learn from one who doesn't exist?

Methinks someone is FOS.

Either they do believe and just want to be argumentative, or they don't believe, but want to.

Best of luck.