The Promised Land

War is bad we agree rite We was breeding for 40 years out in the desert till we had a army then as being trained its a hard life living on mana for 40 years.ye purged the land so that meant they had to go .so we did what we had to do.and streets were red i n blood .'If you can take the promise land .and do the world a faver the worlds the better for it. we took it for the reason that we could breeed there better.u know we could settel make nice citys ok it was coveting thy nieghor land and killing him and taking his land u dont do that,but thats war.so think what you wanna think !Its was a good move for us ! now we are a war like poeple.anyway good luck with the search.peace out.my fellow humans.

You ask a question as to why, but you don't read the texts in question to find the answer within. That's brilliant. Besides, we can't have an atheist delving into the Scriptures for any reason. Even to find the answer to a question. A truly scholarly approach. No. You're just lazy.

You sure seem to spend a lot of time on religion for one who is an atheist. What's the matter? Not so sure anymore? You want to know these answers, why don't you get off your butt and do some homework for yourself?

You don't want to find the truth, you just want to spout off your personal distaste for violence, and seemingly focused toward Jews and their God. So in addition to being lazy, possibly illiterate, and certainly unknowing, we can add biased.

Those who disagree with your assessment are insane.

Let's see. So far we're curious about religion, lazy, possibly illiterate, certainly unknowing, biased, and now we can add judgmental. When the answer to your question is provided by the same source that documents the event, you call that person a sick, twisted SOB.

If that's what being an atheist is, then your belief is now easy to understand, and you can keep your misery to yourself.

But in the event we should ever meet face to face, unlikely that is since you live in Australia, you'd be advised to refrain from calling me names. You POS.

I concur. If I saw children being slaughtered, women being raped and disposed of, families displaced from their home all over a piece of land that someone claimed god told them was theirs, I would feel evil for ignoring it.

Thou shalt not kill should have come with the stipulation that you expect us to swallow.... Thou shalt not kill except when I, God, tell my ppl or President Bush they can do so for land or monetary gain or to show them that I think they are worth more than all the little kiddies they are savagely murdering. Let me guess, you also buy into the fact that "in God we trust" put on the dollar bill was talking about the true God, correct?


No manipulation in the Bible, huh? Funny how the most pivotal person in the history of our world is spoken very little of in the book that is supposed to be in existence BECAUSE of him. Ironic how most of his words have been left out regardless of the fact that they *were* documented and that Saul's words were considered important enough even though they still bind in chains, albeit spiritual chains (and let's not forget Saul's background as a brown-noser of the law to the point of enjoying the persecution of those who were following after the Rabbi who came to liberate people from the obvious bondage they were in and that it must have been obvious that the law they once used to control was now losing effect). Let us also not forget that the true apostles, the INTIMATE disciples of Jesus were opposed to Saul.. and yet, he gets the biggest part of the new testament?

In testing the spirits, it doesn't make sense to me. Do *not* try and accuse me of not reading the bible as well. I am well read and continue to search and study them.. I just don't ignore the obvious to try and justify the clear contradictions and hypocrisy.

Thou shalt not kill and thou shalt not covet are stated emphatically. So, which God do you serve? The one who stated those things or the one who defied those under the excuses that you are stating (because I am not seeing the stipulations you are claiming that supposedly justify god breaking his own commandments).

I leave you with this. ""The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" (Prov. 1:7). Very true! and God's wisdom makes it clear that the angel of light has helped to distort the truth into something that resembles the truth, but is far from the truth and thus most claiming to be christians today are "denying the power of Christ."

It is sad because I see through your posts here that you have missed the power of what the Son of God came to do. I see that you are bound to being obedient to a god who IS a respector of persons.... killing is killing whether you are a jew, a christian, a muslim, catholic, buddhist, black, white, red, brown, spotted, retarded, gay, dog lover, cat lover, man, woman, alien, or george dubbya. It is either wrong for all or okay for all if they deem something evil.






[edit on 23-11-2008 by justamomma]

[edit on 23-11-2008 by justamomma]

reply to post by justamomma

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The King James version is a beautiful, honored interpretation of the Bible, and extremely well done.

However.

Thou shall not kill. That's a bit of a misinterpretation from the original texts. The word more closely would say, "murder." Thou shalt not murder.

You'll recall that David, a "man after God's own heart" wanted so badly to rebuild the temple. But God said no, your son will build it because you have too much blood on your hands. Nothing wrong with killing, but too much dirties your hands, and those hands were not permitted to build the holy sanctuary of God.

David wasn't damned for it, as after all he was a man of God's own heart.

We find two swords present at the Last Supper. Odd.

We find executing wrong-doers by the populace by stoning. Nothing wrong with killing there.

In the New Testament, we find a Roman Centurion obeying the Gospel. After accepting Christ, he was still a soldier. And we all know what soldiers are compelled to do, don't we?

No, there's a time for planting, a time for harvesting, a time to heal, a time to kill. You just try to kill those who really need it.

After a firefight when we lost a comrade, there was no Chaplain present to say a few words. They guys asked me to say a few words. So I prayed.

"Our Father in Heaven, we present you with our companion. Do as You will. Take him if you want him, but I wouldn't. He was lazy, wouldn't pull his own freight, and I for one won't miss him. But it's Your house, Your rules. Your decision. For the rest of us, we pray for eyes that see the enemy first so that we may kill them quickly, legs that carry us quickly into battle enabling us to run them down when they attempt to escape and kill them too, strong arms to slay these godless bastards hip and thigh, feet to tread surely through the ankle deep blood we hope to shed, and fingers to pull our triggers with precision and rapidity. And those we kill, we then forgive. All things according to thy will, Amen."

I was never asked to say anything over another body.

Yet not but one would disagree. That's the way we all felt.

All this peace, love, forgiveness, and such is fine, but that other SOB just may not be of the same mind. And a lot of folks aren't. They'll kill you for ten dollars, your car, your daughter, or just because they can.

Just one way for certain that you can guarantee that he'll never, ever do anything like that again.

You compel him to assume ambient temperature.


[edit on 23-11-2008 by dooper]

haha! that made me laugh. I personally am not anti killing. I hope to God that I never have to do such, but if the lives of my children are threatened (whether by an intruder, a gov't, or a nation claiming to be doing the bidding of god), I do not doubt that I will be seen going down taking out as many with me as I can.

If I am wrong about the following, then so be it and may God have mercy on my soul considering that I am not coming from a humanistic point of view (because I *do* think there are justifiable causes.. I just don't limit them to my personal agenda or the agenda of those jews (bc it really is only a handful along w/ the leaders of this country) who are out to cause distress in this day in age in the name of "god") or a bad place in my heart.... BUT,

I think that killing mass populations over a piece of land in the name of god is deception and is classified as murder since it serves a selfish reason. I personally, being a NON jew find it scary that so many are willing to back them w/out question because they think that is what God wants. Sounds like something set up to get by with much personal agenda.

And to clarify, I do not see all of the jews as being in the above catagory. In fact, if one would really take the time to question rather than buying what you are being fed for personal agenda through the pulpits of your churches who benefit by preaching what they are told, it would become quite obvious that the normal everyday jew is being oppressed severely by the jews who claim God for their agendas. I have no problem standing up for those jews to battle against the jews (holding the $$) and oppressing/ controlling/ manipulating all the world even at the present moment.

The jews that are being supported fervently w/out question are getting their reward here on earth. I do not support them or their murderous agenda. Their dogs are MUCH better off than the children of the people they are murdering. Cannot and WILL not EVER support that regardless of the fear of god that others try to instill in me. I fear God,..... I fear defying his son's teachings... but not those handful of jews who are pulling the strings of this country and who honestly could care less about the plight their own people are going through. Jesus rebuked them in his time and I have no problem calling out and rebuking their evil deeds now.

Well, they've been assigned that land since 1948, and even since 1948 Arabs have been trying to wipe them out.

They've been kidnapped, held for ransom, killed, suffered suicide bombers on buses and in shopping areas, rocketed, mortared, been invaded in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, and the attacks on them have continued without ceasing.

The best way is often the most painful way, but the solution is quick, decisive, and the suffering is over. That is the way that has been proven effective all through the millennia, and that is the way that fewer lives total are lost, and suffering is curtailed.

Originally, they were to purify the land by purging it of the local inhabitants. To keep their religion pure, their families pure, and their laws pure. You'll note that those areas they didn't purge, later caused them no end of grief.

And the Christ you refer to is also of the same Godhead that we find in the Old Testament giving these orders.

reply to post by dooper

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Still getting your facts wrong i see.

Israel has had the Gaza Strip,the Golan Heights and the West Bank under military control since the 6 day war in 1967.That land was designated to the Palestinians,not the Jews.And if you want to go back to ancient history,bare this one important fact in mind.The Jews only have the right to land in that area if they keep God's laws and commandments.Have they done this? I don't think so.Therefore,by their own faith,they have no right to the land until they stop killing,stealing,lying etc etc etc.

reply to post by jakyll

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No, dear, I'm not getting my facts wrong. The original land partitioned was given to the Israeli's in 1948, and they have in fact been under attack ever since.

The war that the Arabs had talked up so much leading up to 1967 saw them get their collective asses kicked beyond embarrassment. As a result of losing the war, Syria lost the Golan Heights which they previously used to bombard Israeli farms and villages, the West Bank was taken from Jordan, and Gaza fell, quite by default when the Egyptians got their asses kicked.

The Israeli's have tried to give it back to Egypt, but they don't want this contentious people either. No one likes Gaza or the people in it. Everyone hates them. For good reason. Because they are nothing but a source of trouble.!

And no, you're wrong. The land Israel holds today is the land partitioned by Britain in 1948, and the lands added by defeating their enemies. So they hve the right under international law in spite of any of the lying, stealing crap you charge.

No one wants Gaza!

Not Egypt!

Not Israel!

So wall it off, and let them find their own way. Since they clearly can't get alon, put them out of touch, out of reach, and out of sight.

You have to be one simple-minded dumbass to continue to live there. They still live in refugee camps???? How sorry of a human being do you have to be to live in a refugee camp for sixty years??

Man! That is sorry!


[edit on 23-11-2008 by dooper]

God promised Noah he would never again do what he did in the flood - but he did superanturally fight the battles for the Jews. They did not do it by themselves.

In fact in Jericho - God did 90% of the work all they did was march around blow some trumpets and the walls caved in. So you are way off base.

Passover blood is a symbol for Christs sacrifice - so we would know we are saved by his blood not by our own merit.

Oh and not too surprising to see the Dawkins Strawman being employed by Andre to disparage Gods character. I addressed this in one of my videos... also they did not kill all the people only certain nations that were completely given over to demon worship an human sacrifice. Some suspect fallen angel dna had corrupted their tribes as well which explains the need for complete genocide of the affected peoples.

The Dawkins Strawman

YouTube Link

Enjoy!



[edit on 11/23/2008 by Bigwhammy]

reply to post by Bigwhammy

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Excellent response! Some folks can ask questions, but don't want to take the trouble to find the answers.

I believe that's close to what I said earlier. A purification of the land.

Thanks!

In addition I believe Jesus Christ himself fought the battle of Jericho. First you need to be aware that "Jesus" is the Greek version of Joshua or Yeshua which are interchangeable. The modern day image of Jesus as some hippy pacifist is dead wrong.

"“Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword." (Matthew 10:34, NKJV)
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Joshua chapter 5

As Joshua is standing near Jericho, he looks up and sees a warrior with drawn sword in his hand.

"Who goes there?" I can hear Joshua shouting, as he draws his own sword. "Are you for us or for our enemies?"

"Neither," replies the warrior, but as Commander of the army (KJV "hosts") of the LORD I have now come."

Joshua sheaths his sword and kneels, then falls on his face before the Commander. "What message does my Lord have for his servant?" he asks, in humble obeisance.

The Commander replies, "Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy."
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The Commander's words are nearly identical to those of Yahweh to Moses out of the burning bush a full forty years before (Exodus 3:5). An army of angels with swords! Hmmm there's goes Andre's canard about them having to do it all themselves. Take note the the "commander" asks Joshua to take off his shoes he is on sacred ground. Angels of the Lord do not accept worship so this command tells me this was Jesus Christ himself commanding an army of angels!

reply to post by dooper

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Palestinian Loss Of Land.1946-2000.



You were saying....

Oh,and the British partition plan was rejected in favour of the UN plan.

[edit on 23-11-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by jakyll

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I see in the first map that the Jews owned significant amounts of the more choice properties. A lot of the green was previously uncultivated or uninhabited. Especially the lower portions of the map.

The Middle Map seems to reflect the settled Jewish areas.

The last map you'll note that after the 1948-49 invasion to massacre Israel by Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordon, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia that they were in turn massacred, and lost more land.

To facilitate a massacre, loads of Palestinians pulled up stake and abandoned the Israeli's to their fate. These properties were abandoned, and their previous owners were never allowed to return. As it should be.

You'll also note, if you find another map, that after everyone ganged up on Israel again, Israel gained even more territory. Funny, each time they are supposed to get whacked by superior numbers of Arabs, they come out each time better off than before.

Ever notice that?

this i agree with, we as humans cannot judge. but are you seriously saying that god cannot judge?

No, just those who think genocide can be justified – you crazy sob’s….



What the hell are you on about. I’m asking one simple question – why would god desire the Israelites to commit genocide to prove themselves to him? Your answer is murdering is justifiable if god says it’s ok…….

WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE

And then you reply back even though I’ve asked you not to, by insulting me because I insulted you – yeah real mature. The reason you and every other Christian is insane is because no one with a brain would even think about justifying murder unless they literally were insane.

Not an insult – a fact.

You know at the beginning of this thread I said it would be impossible to have a reasonable debate because our moral beliefs are the exact opposite and here we are, a page later arguing about morals.

I was asked by U2U to clarify my comment and thought it was best to include on the thread as well since it seems appropriate:



The complaint the original poster had was that God was killing people. If someone believes God exists, they also believe God created everyone. If God created created, He has the right to un-create. Mankind has not created anyone but they do quite a job killing others. So, even though they haven't been given the right, they still kill.

I'd like to amend that to say that we've become so efficient at killing that we kill people even before they are born.

[edit on 24-11-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by dooper

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1947–1948 Civil War in the Mandatory Palestine.
1948 Arab-Israeli War.The War commenced on the termination of the British Mandate on 15 May 1948.
1949 Armistice Agreements.Israel signed armistices with Egypt,Syria,Lebanon and Jordan.At this time the Gaza Strip and the West Bank were occupied by Egypt and Jordan respectively.Not Israel.


Israel and Jordan.
1966 an Israeli border patrol hit a mine killing three soldiers and injuring six others.The Israelis believed the mine had been planted by militants from Es Samu on the West Bank.At this time Jordan and Israel had been holding peace talks,Israel assured Jordan they would not attack.They lied.2 days later an Israeli force of around 3,000-4,000 soldiers backed by tanks and aircraft attacked Es Samu,a village in the Jordanian-occupied West Bank of 4,000 inhabitants,all of them Palestinian refugees whom the Israelis accused of harboring terrorists from Syria.

Of this incident US President Johnson said,

In response to this action,Syria started to bomb north-eastern Galilee from positions on the Golan Heights,as part of the dispute over control of the Demilitarized Zones.They,along with Jordan,signed protection treaties with Egypt.

1967 The Straits of Tiran crisis.All ideas put forward by the US and the UN were accepted by Egypt but rejected by Israel.Frustrated by the attempt to end the Middle East crisis diplomatically Israel took matters into their own hands.


1967 Six-Day War.Egypt's president Nasser had expelled the United Nations Force from the Sinai Peninsula.The peacekeeping force had been stationed there since 1957 following a British-French-Israeli invasion which was launched during the Suez Crisis.

Israel later made a pre-emptive attack.By the end of the conflict they controlled the Sinai Peninsula,the Gaza Strip,Golan Heights and the West Bank.

The Aftermath.The National Unity Government of Israel voted unanimously to return the Sinai to Egypt and the Golan Heights to Syria in return for peace agreements.The Golans would have to be demilitarized and special arrangement would be negotiated for the Straits of Tiran.The government also resolved to open negotiations with King Hussein of Jordan regarding the Eastern border.

The UN Security Council adopted Resolution 242, the "land for peace" formula,which called for Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied in 1967 in return for the termination of all claims or states of belligerency.

Israel ignored this and has continued to do so,they also continue to oppress the Palestinian people.If this is acceptable behaviour then the dozens of military invasions that have taken place in the last few decades should not have been opposed either.For example,1990 Iraq invasion of Kuwait./2006 Ethiopian invasion of Somalia./2008 Georgia invasion of South Ossetia./1979 Soviet Union invasion of Afghanistan./1980 Iraq invasion of Iran.

reply to post by Bigwhammy

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BIGWHAMMY.. You said some suspect dna froma a fallen angel had corrupted some tribes.. Can show some proof of that?

Are you talking in terms of racial dna? because at some point in history all tribes on earth practiced paganism, all continents and all skin colours.. And they did this before different races/tribes began mixing...

This is a good question and one I wonder about as well. There are many incidents in the Bible where people were killed by God (fire and brimstone, the earth opening up and swallowing them, drowned in the Red Sea, etc.). All I can say to this is: I don't know why the Jews had to take the land in battle. Speculate, sure, but it would be just that: speculation. This is one of those times I wish we had more outspoken Jewish members on ATS. It makes me a bit uncomfortable explaining something about their history. They would be far more knowledgeable than me and might be put off if I give an incorrect answer.

If I had to guess, and it's only a guess, it would be more than just obedience or an effort to set the Jews apart from society (although those are both consistent themes in the Old Testament and probably part of the truth). It could very possibly also be due to the 'live by the sword' mentality of that era. To survive, it was impossible to be seen as weak militarily. Perhaps God wanted them to be victorious in battle to send a message to future tribes that would seek to wage war with them.

Again, total speculation. I don't feel comfortable giving a definite answer for the Jews just like I don't appreciate it when non Christians give definitive answers for my faith.

However, as an New Testament Christian, this is something I can answer from a Christian perspective:



This has nothing to do with God not knowing who lives where. This was very deep prophetic foreshadowing of Jesus who would later become the passover lamb and who would protect us from eternal death, just like the lamb during the first passover 'protected' those from earthly death.

*Edited to fix some typos. Bring back the preview post feature!

[edit on 11/24/2008 by AshleyD]

Now god using natural disasters to punish i can believe.. The problem is the tribes were at war with each other quite often.. And always made accusations against each other of not adhering to god correctly.. Its seems politics played a big part in the bible.. So new leaders would rise up claiming god had told them to attack a neighbouring tribe..