US Supreme Court to Conference on Obama's Presidential Eligibility, page 7

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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 08:16 PM by die_another_day

Once again, I should emphasize that Obama is more American than many U.S. born citizens that I know of. What's the most he could do? With this checks and balances presidents are more limited than any other president. Remember, these are judges appointed by the Bush administration.

Personally, I wonder what Justice Marshall would say if he was still alive.

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 08:18 PM by MAINTAL

Originally posted by southern_Guardian

I am actually real glad that we are finally towards the end of this where the supreme court will confirm the Obama as a natural born citizen. Will those over here be satisfied? No... apparent everybody who is not of the conservative base is in on this conspiracy. Just like the last 8years of lies... oh wait no the administration over the last years were those of the conservative base. My... the nation is in a great mess aint it?

So am I glad and for what it's worth, Ill be satisfied but Ill not ever like all the rigorous bull one has to go through with this guys past so sewn up and sealed tight at every turn. He did the same thing in Illinois as a senator and many there are STILL angry at what he did to our state now 44 Billion in the hole thanks to his "redistribution" of the so called wealth. Plus there is the thing only us Chicagoans have known since Kennedy was Pres. That to get from where he was to where he is now and knowing what we do about the Chicago Daley Political Machine, one has to be well connected to the Mob and he was, in addition to being one of the daley Darlings, which he is.

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 08:22 PM by PowerSlave

Wasn't the Panama Canal considered a US territory until recently? So wouldnt that make Mccain US born?

Just asking

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 08:23 PM by MAINTAL

Originally posted by die_another_day
Once again, I should emphasize that Obama is more American than many U.S. born citizens that I know of.
Personally, I wonder what Justice Marshall would say if he was still alive.

Really? how is that? I know some things he has done and said that wouldn't be so typically "Americana"

What's the most he could do? With this checks and balances presidents are more limited than any other president. Remember, these are judges appointed by the Bush administration.

HUH?

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 08:32 PM by Blaine91555

Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868.

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States...

I did not vote for Obama, however I'm opposed to his being removed even if the Supreme Court were to find him ineligible. He won in a decisive manner and it is time for intelligent human beings to put the Partisan garbage aside and instead pray for his success; whether you agree with him or not.

I posted this excerpt of the US Constitution to show what I think the deciding factor should be. As I read this it would mean any decision he should be denied the right to run for President Unconstitutional on its face. "No State shall make or enforce ANY LAW which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens..." Obama and McCain are Citizens and that is not in dispute.

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 08:35 PM by danx

Originally posted by PowerSlave
Wasn't the Panama Canal considered a US territory until recently? So wouldnt that make Mccain US born?

Just asking

Hi PowerSlave,
Please see my post on page 4 of this thread, it has a link and a quote from a Department of State's document that addresses that question.

Short answer: US Military Installations abroad are not US territory.

Regarding the Panama Canal case:

On July 28, 1904, Controller of the Treasury Robert Tracewell stated, "While the general spirit and purpose of the Constitution is applicable to the zone, that domain is not a part of the United States within the full meaning of the Constitution and laws of the country."

In 1953, Congress passed legislation to specify the status of Americans born in the Canal Zone--and to exclude non-Americans born there from citizenship. Title 8, Section 1403 of the United States Code grants citizenship to those born in the Canal Zone with at least one parent who is a United States citizen. This differs from the provision in the Fourteenth Amendment which grants citizenship to all born in the United States, regardless of parental nationality. (source)

So anyone born on the Panama Canal would been granted American citizenship, provided that at least one parent was a United States citizen -- in McCain's case both his parents were.

But again, no one is disputing that McCain (or Obama) are US citizens. The problem is that US Constitution names being a natural born citizen as a requirement for being eligible for President of the United States.

All the legal confusion arises from the fact that people have doubts on what exactly natural born citizen means, since the US Constitution never explicitly explains it.

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 08:51 PM by die_another_day

Originally posted by MAINTAL

Originally posted by die_another_day
Once again, I should emphasize that Obama is more American than many U.S. born citizens that I know of.
Personally, I wonder what Justice Marshall would say if he was still alive.

Really? how is that? I know some things he has done and said that wouldn't be so typically "Americana"

What's the most he could do? With this checks and balances presidents are more limited than any other president. Remember, these are judges appointed by the Bush administration.

HUH?

They won't let him go too radical, how hard is that to comprehend? U.S. government is nicely structured compared to other governments.

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 09:05 PM by BlueTriangle

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I hope it is for real. At this point, I think we need to see what's happening and either reveal the nasty truth or put it behind us.

*gasp*!! I agree with BH. This has been happening more and more lately and that's pretty scary.

As I've said in other threads, I don't know if any of the birth certificate "conspiracy" is true or not. Honestly, I consider it unlikely. However, I think there's enough of a doubt that it needs to be thoroughly checked out. I still think it's fishy that Obama won't just produce the hospital birth certificate and end this once and for all.

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 09:16 PM by stander

reply to post by danx

Some influential people didn't like both Obama and McCain. It doesn't take much to pass a word to those folks who practice Constitutional Law.

The United States Constitution requires that Presidents (and Vice Presidents) of the United States be natural-born citizens of the United States. While it is undisputed that people born in the US are qualified to hold the office of President, and that naturalized US citizens are disqualified from holding that office, it is disputed whether people born to US-citizen parents outside the United states are natural-born citizens or not.

If that person initiated the legal proceeding in order to disqualify the winner of the presidential election from taking the office, then the person is hopelessly naive. But if the reason was to see what happens, then the action is commendable: there should no dispute about which park bench is reserved for whom.

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 09:31 PM by TheRandom1

reply to post by die_another_day

Lol, you obviously do not live in America (checks poster's Location), yep, you live in Florida, that is not America, it is the dying grounds of the old lol.

Seriously, if you think that Americas "structure" is a good thing, then you don't know squat about politics, laws or rights.
America's "structure" is one of the most corrupted, America is just like any other country, all these people are out for one thing GLOBAL DOMINATION!

I greatly doubt the African will be denied dictatorship over America, soon The Crown will completely reclaim America and The Beast will come in to power, Obama and his being elected is just another piece to the puzzle, look at the box and you can see the picture all the pieces form once the puzzle is put together.

-Lahara

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 09:34 PM by PowerSlave

reply to post by danx

I did in fact see your post on page 4. However the legislation you posted was passed in 1953 well after Mccains birth. And the statement made by Robert Tracewell is just that. A statement, and a vague one at that with no reference to the subject at hand.

The reason I mentioned Mccain, was because so many others were bringing it up. He is also named in this suit as well.

The differences between Mccain and Obama are significant if they are to be investigated and ruled to fit the meaning of the constitution.

I suppose the senate has already weighed in on Mccains situation so it is irrelevent at this point. However should Obama be found ineligible, and Mccain is the only one left standing. I would think this would be brought back into the spotlight.

I find it rather disturbing that the MSM was all over Mccain for this issue until he finally produced his BC to the media and the whole issue exploded. And this was before the election.

Now we have Obama, who has the same if not worse situation. He is already elected and the Media is absolutely no where to be found. I would like them to explain to me why they have no interest in this what so ever.

They still seem more concerned about what happened to Sarah Palin's clothes and what dog the Obama's will choose.

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 09:35 PM by Indy

I think the SCOTUS will say they've reviewed this and will accept the BC provided by Hawaii as sufficient proof. That requiring additional proof single him out unfairly since this hasn't been required in the past. And the SCOTUS is big on equal protection. They will drop this even if they have doubts because I am confident they realize the damage that will be done to this country if they attempt to disqualify Obama. Believe me the consequences for all would be severe.

I do believe that this case is racially motivated. Had he been given a more American sounding name and/or had a different skin color this would have never come up. Its as if there is no possible way a dark colored person with a name like that could be American. I get ignorant comments even from family that claim he is Muslim. Ignorance is unfortunately alive and well in this country.

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 09:40 PM by Agit8dChop

Originally posted by BlueTriangle
As I've said in other threads, I don't know if any of the birth certificate "conspiracy" is true or not. Honestly, I consider it unlikely. However, I think there's enough of a doubt that it needs to be thoroughly checked out. I still think it's fishy that Obama won't just produce the hospital birth certificate and end this once and for all.

I think your right, There's something to answer for but I dont think the born in Kenya thing will turn out to be legit.

And I cant think of any good reason why he wouldnt just put this crap to bed and display the documents early on.

What happens if its found he was born in Kenya though?

Another Election?

Clinton? Mccain?

Obama got such an overwhealming victory, while some % of them would turn away if he's found not to be a natural US citizen, majority wouldnt. Because they elected him on his values, morals and speaches.

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 09:44 PM by BlueTriangle

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
What happens if its found he was born in Kenya though?
Another Election?
Clinton? Mccain?
/quote]

My original opinion on this was that there would have to be a re-election. However, I argued this very subject in another thread a few weeks ago and somebody came forward with some text that changed my mind. I think we'd be dealing with President Biden.

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 09:49 PM by PowerSlave

reply to post by Indy

I do believe that this case is racially motivated

If that is true, why would Mccain be named as well? Perhaps some of the multiple suits are racially motivated, but I don't see this one as such or the Alan Keyes one for obvious reasons.

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 10:08 PM by danx

Originally posted by PowerSlave
I did in fact see your post on page 4. However the legislation you posted was passed in 1953 well after Mccains birth. And the statement made by Robert Tracewell is just that. A statement, and a vague one at that with no reference to the subject at hand.

US Code Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter III, Part I, Section 1403

(a) Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.

John McCain is a US Citizen, thanks to that addition to US Code. If the United States considered Panama to be a territory and therefor grant the same Constitutional rights to people born there, it wouldn't be needed to add that to the Code.

8 USC 1403(a) applies to John McCain since he was born in 1936. Therefor, McCain was declared a US Citizen, making him a naturalized citizen.

Thus, John McCain is not a "natural born" citizen. He is ineligible for the office of President of the United States.

Regarding Barack Obama,
If he was in fact born in Hawaii, then he is a "natural born" citizen.

From the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 Section 305:

Sec. 305. [8 U.S.C. 1405] A person born in Hawaii on or after August 12, 1898, and before April 30, 1900, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900. A person born in Hawaii on or after April 30, 1900, is a citizen of the United States at birth. A person who was a citizen of the Republic of Hawaii on August 12, 1898, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900.

edit: correction regarding Hawaiian nationality dates

[edit on 20-11-2008 by danx]

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 11:12 PM by PowerSlave

reply to post by danx

Actually after searching around it seems this has not really been decided. Since there has been no official legally binding decision. It is not something that can be stated as fact for either case. Depending on the political affiliation. The laws are vague enough that they can be skewed to fit either side.

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 11:17 PM by Dbriefed

reply to post by danx

The 'IF' is the question. If Barak was born in Hawaii, he's eligible. If he was born in Kenya, then he is not. That is the question. However those who are exposed to POTUS Top Secret information need to be cleared with an Extended Background Investigation (20 year pre-birth). I would expect the president himself to need to pass a background investigation, and by all appearances, Barak could not.

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 11:34 PM by danx

Originally posted by PowerSlave
Actually after searching around it seems this has not really been decided. Since there has been no official legally binding decision. It is not something that can be stated as fact for either case. Depending on the political affiliation. The laws are vague enough that they can be skewed to fit either side.

I'm not sure to what exactly you are referring to of not being an "officially binding decision".

Anyway, here's the definition of naturalization:

c. Naturalization is “the conferring of nationality of a state upon a person after birth, by any means whatsoever” (Section 101(a)(23) INA)

From the Foreign Affairs Manual 7 FAM 1100 1111.2.

And as I mentioned in my previous post, here's the law that governs John McCain's situation, 8 U.S.C. 1403:

Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.

John McCain's nationality was declared, or by other words, he was "conferred the nationality of a state". He was naturalized US citizen.

If one has doubts about the actual meaning of "declaring" a nationality, then you could also have compared it to the the law governing Hawaii's situation, which was also in my previous post:

Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 Section 305:

A person born in Hawaii on or after August 12, 1898, and before April 30, 1900, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900. A person born in Hawaii on or after April 30, 1900, is a citizen of the United States at birth. A person who was a citizen of the Republic of Hawaii on August 12, 1898, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900.

What does this mean? People who were born on or after 1898 (when Hawaii was annexed to the US) and before 1900 (when it became a territory), were naturalized US citizens, as they were declared as such.

People who were born after 1900, are citizens of the United States at birth, or in other words, natural born citizens.

If Obama was born in Hawaii he is a natural born citizen. McCain simply is not a natural born citizen, he is a naturalized US citizen.