US Supreme Court to Conference on Obama's Presidential Eligibility, page 8
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 11:53 PM by Evisscerator
reply to post by Gools



CSPAN should broadcast the US Supreme Court hearings on this matter. Enough SMOKE AND MIRRORS behind closed doors. The PEOPLE deserve the see the facts and the truth.

If they discover that OBAMA is not a natural born American, then he ought to have his win thrown out and McCain declared the winner. Better yet, the Electoral College should throw every single vote behind McCain and validate the election that way.


reply posted on 21-11-2008 @ 12:00 AM by Evisscerator
Originally posted by Blaine91555

Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868.

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States...


I did not vote for Obama, however I'm opposed to his being removed even if the Supreme Court were to find him ineligible. He won in a decisive manner and it is time for intelligent human beings to put the Partisan garbage aside and instead pray for his success; whether you agree with him or not.

I posted this excerpt of the US Constitution to show what I think the deciding factor should be. As I read this it would mean any decision he should be denied the right to run for President Unconstitutional on its face. "No State shall make or enforce ANY LAW which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens..." Obama and McCain are Citizens and that is not in dispute.


You are wrong. Application of the 14th Amendment does not constitute the means test for the Office of the President of the US. The Constitution is very clear in defining WHO is eligible and OBAMA, for all the whinning out there, was born in KENYA, by a white American woman who also did not pass the test of the LAW as of 1961, for her newborn to be an American citizen.

If OBAMA was not BORN in the United States, being a NATURAL born citizen of the United States, then he, according the US Constitution, is INELIGIBLE to run or be PRESIDENT regardless of what you bleeding heart left leaning liberals might say about the POPULAR VOTE.

The POPULAR vote does not an election for the Office of the President of the US decide. That is left to the Electoral College, who can, still overturn the election when they vote.


reply posted on 21-11-2008 @ 12:12 AM by goldbomb444
Originally posted by Evisscerator
reply to
post by Gools



If they discover that OBAMA is not a natural born American, then he ought to have his win thrown out and McCain declared the winner. Better yet, the Electoral College should throw every single vote behind McCain and validate the election that way.


That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. If a president gets impeached, the vice doesn't go with him. If Obama is found to not be natural born, than Biden with be Pres.


reply posted on 21-11-2008 @ 01:37 AM by stander
Originally posted by danx

US Code Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter III, Part I, Section 1403
(a) Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.


8 USC 1403(a) applies to John McCain since he was born in 1936. Therefor, McCain was declared a US Citizen, making him a naturalized citizen.

Thus, John McCain is not a "natural born" citizen. He is ineligible for the office of President of the United States.


Regarding Barack Obama,
If he was in fact born in Hawaii, then he is a "natural born" citizen.

From the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 Section 305:
Sec. 305. [8 U.S.C. 1405] A person born in Hawaii on or after August 12, 1898, and before April 30, 1900, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900. A person born in Hawaii on or after April 30, 1900, is a citizen of the United States at birth. A person who was a citizen of the Republic of Hawaii on August 12, 1898, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900.



Sec.305. [8 U.S.C.] 1405 still lacks the defining term "natural born citizen" required for the elegibility to become US President.

John McCain hasn't been issued any document stating that he became a naturalized citizen of the United States of A. What is his nationality, then?

There is nothing wrong with both guys to prevent them from moving into the White House. Common sense and an obvious circumstance of their birth will decide.


reply posted on 21-11-2008 @ 03:47 AM by Eulogy
It really depends on how the Supreme Court looks at everything. There is no defining code, regulation, or authority that describes EXACTLY what natural born means. It could refer to a natural birth (none C-Section), doubtful but bear with me.

I also had a friend back in school who was born on an Air Force base in Germany. Both of his parents were American. He was NOT a natural born citizen and could NOT have ran for President. I remember him being upset by this...Lol.

So, if that holds to be true, McCain would most likely NOT be eligible for President either. I voted for McCain, but at this point, I'm curious to see what Obama could do too. Fact is, neither of them may be eligible for President.

If that's the case, then Biden would not become President either because Obama/Biden was never technically sworn in to office. Technically, until the electoral votes are cast and counted, Obama isn't even the President-Elect. This is all on presumption that the electoral votes are casted properly.

More than likely, what would happen is that Bush would be left in office until such a time when new campaigns could be ran, but I don't see them offsetting the cycle of elections so Bush might even be left in office FOUR more years until the next cycle of Presidential elections. You figure 4/9 justices on the Supreme Court were appointed by Bush. It takes 4 for the Supreme Court to hear a case and 5 to actually agree yes/no on the subject once it's heard. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

Just my two cents on the subject though, I'm curious to see how this plays out. If it's not decided by the time Jan 20 comes, could the Supreme Court order a halt of the inauguration or would it continue?


reply posted on 21-11-2008 @ 09:42 AM by danx
Originally posted by stander
Sec.305. [8 U.S.C.] 1405 still lacks the defining term "natural born citizen" required for the elegibility to become US President.


From all the reading I've been doing about this subject, any addition to US Code or legislation defining the meaning of "natural born citizen" would be unconstitutional.

The only way this would be possible would be through a Constitutional Amendment.


John McCain hasn't been issued any document stating that he became a naturalized citizen of the United States of A. What is his nationality, then?


Well, in theory when John McCain was born he received Panamanian nationality by
jus soli.

I say in theory because I do not know how Panama's laws or constitution work, but usually if you are living in some country and you have residence there (as this was the case for the McCains), your child will receive the nationality of that country.

Some countries however make some restrictions, so we'd have to look into Panama's law or constitution.
Anyway, I don't think that is very important, since in 1952, with the Immigration and Naturalization Act of that year, when John McCain was 16, the US declared that people born to US parents in the Panama Canal Zone since from 1904 on, were US citizens.

At this point, my guess is that John McCain had dual citizenship. At least from a legal standpoint, not sure how that was reflected in his papers, and I admit that I have not looked into it.

But since John McCain doesn't live in Panama, and haven't in a long long time, my guess would be that he lost his Panamanian citizenship.

For instance, the laws regarding nationality in Kenya when Obama was born, Kenya was still a colony of the United Kingdom and United Kingdom Colony code applied. In this code any child born to a United Kingdom and Colonies citizen (Obama Sr.), would automatically receive United Kingdom and Colonies (UKC) citizenship, even if the child was born somewhere else.

If he was born in Hawaii, at the time of his birth, he had dual citizenship because of this fact. Shortly after, Kenya declared independence and this code would no longer apply, and the new Kenyan Constitution prohibited that adults have dual citizenship, so at this point Obama lost his Kenyan citizenship.

I have no doubt that John McCain is a US citizen, and so is Barack Obama. From my understanding however, John McCain is not a "natural born citizen", but a naturalized US citizen since his citizenship was declared.


edit: corrections and clarifications



[edit on 21-11-2008 by danx]


reply posted on 21-11-2008 @ 11:35 AM by maybereal11
Originally posted by MAINTAL
Ill not ever like all the rigorous bull one has to go through with this guys past so sewn up and sealed tight at every turn. He did the same thing in Illinois as a senator and many there are STILL angry at what he did to our state now 44 Billion in the hole thanks to his "redistribution" of the so called wealth.


You aren't by any chance in the fertilizer biz are you Manny? I just have never seen someone so adept at packing so much manuer into so little space.

I have lived in Illinois my whole life and followed politics here closely here for decades.
Who is still angry?
What are you saying Pres Elect Obama did to our state?
How is Illinois current debt situation the fault of Pres. Elect Obama?

Originally posted by MAINTAL Plus there is the thing only us Chicagoans have known since Kennedy was Pres.
That to get from where he was to where he is now and knowing what we do about the Chicago Daley Political Machine, one has to be well connected to the Mob and he was, in addition to being one of the daley Darlings, which he is.


Like I said...I am a lifelong Chicagoan and I must have missed the whole Obama is Mobster thing. LOL The idea that every politician in Chicago is corrupt is just another far reaching attempt at guilt by association...and frankly given how it worked out for the GOP during the campaign I am suprised that anyone still embraces such a failed propoganda device.

* Mods...Please consider this an off-topic rebutal to an off-topic derailment/political baiting posting.
Feel free to remove this post along with Mannys if you deem it appropriate.


reply posted on 21-11-2008 @ 12:37 PM by ZindoDoone
reply to post by danx



"From all the reading I've been doing about this subject, any addition to US Code or legislation defining the meaning of "natural born citizen" would be unconstitutional.

The only way this would be possible would be through a Constitutional Amendment."

If SCOTUS rules on the term 'Natural Born' to mean what the plaintifs believe then that ,I would think, would set precedent for future inquiries without the need for a constitutional problem. It would become cannon law and would negate any need. But, I ain't no jack leg lawyer so I'm just asking!
Zindo


reply posted on 21-11-2008 @ 12:44 PM by Jenna
reply to post by Avenginggecko



Now don't go scaring people like that! You might give someone with a weak heart a heart attack talking about Cheney being president!
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