Obama Promised Change, but Picks Insiders Instead

Originally posted by grover
Anyone with any sort of experience with teams (or business) knows that the management sets the tone and the underlings follow suit. If the leader is a sloppy manager then that sloppiness will be translated all the way down the line.... if the leader is disciplined and focused then it too will be translated all the way down the line.

In a perfect organization - maybe. Earth to grover. Government is the last placed you'd look for perfect. In an organization where the "manager" (obama) has no experience, the "underlings" (clintonistas) will take over the show.

Just because someone has served someone else does not automatically mean that they will function in the same ways if the management style above them is totally different.

Sorry, but this is naive. Why hire them, but not for what they bring to the table?

Obama either hired them because he agrees with what their policies have been in the past, or he hired them because he has no clue for himself and will just follow their lead.

Barack Obama is certainly disciplined and focused or he wouldn't be where he is today...

No, he is here today because millions of his voters (87%) couldn't tell the difference between a comedy sketch and real life - among other things.

he didn't have daddy's machine set things up for him... and I expect his team to reflect his attitudes or they won't be there long.

No, obama ran from his past and heritage as long and as fast as he could go.

From what I have seen I fully expect him to run a tight ship and jetison anyone who does not play well with others.... including Hillary Clinton should she come on board.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by grover]

Please share with us what you have seen that gives you this insight.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Well, that's what obama promised. I assume some people (not all) voted for him based on that promise. Now it's been exposed as a lie.

Didn't get my vote. But I will give him a beginning chance, just like I did for Bush.

Sad.

What's more sad is to see so many people steeping in partisan politics instead of ever looking at the larger picture. Conservative this, Liberal that. When those people realize that they've been divided they may amount to something useful.

But I do recall 10 years - a decade - or more of vicious attacks by the left. Many on Bush before he had even taken the oath. Karma - it's real.

So because another group of people did it to your guy, you are going to do it to them. Wow, that's excellent. America is going to get so much accomplished in its future with people so willing to nip and scratch at each other on any opportunity that they have an excuse for.

The clintonistas will never let that happen now that they infest obama's government.

I need an update, is this the trendy hip cool new word we're going to be using instead of "neocons"?

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by grover
Anyone with any sort of experience with teams (or business) knows that the management sets the tone and the underlings follow suit. If the leader is a sloppy manager then that sloppiness will be translated all the way down the line.... if the leader is disciplined and focused then it too will be translated all the way down the line.

In a perfect organization - maybe.

Nope... In any organization. Crappy organizations primarily because those are the one's which see turnover in executive management.


I've been in several startups where the people in the office don't change at all, just the CEO, and what follows is a complete transition from what was there before.

Heck, even at large corporations like HP, IBM, Apple, etc this occurs.


It's pretty standard, and frankly I'm surprised you didn't realize this.

Originally posted by niteboy82

But I do recall 10 years - a decade - or more of vicious attacks by the left. Many on Bush before he had even taken the oath. Karma - it's real.

So because another group of people did it to your guy, you are going to do it to them.

Wow, that's excellent. America is going to get so much accomplished in its future with people so willing to nip and scratch at each other on any opportunity that they have an excuse for.

After dishing it out for so long and in such nasty ways, it is nothing short of hypocritical whining to complain about getting some back. What, we're supposed to be the only ones willing to turn the other cheek? (Oops, forgot. That's something only Christians are supposed to do.)

And if you'll pay close attention here, you notice that instead of calling obama names (like curious george and worse), we are talking about real issues and real concerns about an obama governent. Now, I believe you'll have to admit, that IS a step in the right direction.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by grover
Anyone with any sort of experience with teams (or business) knows that the management sets the tone and the underlings follow suit. If the leader is a sloppy manager then that sloppiness will be translated all the way down the line.... if the leader is disciplined and focused then it too will be translated all the way down the line.

In a perfect organization - maybe.

Nope... In any organization. Crappy organizations primarily because those are the one's which see turnover in executive management.


I've been in several startups where the people in the office don't change at all, just the CEO, and what follows is a complete transition from what was there before.

Heck, even at large corporations like HP, IBM, Apple, etc this occurs.


It's pretty standard, and frankly I'm surprised you didn't realize this.

Frankly, I'm surprised that you didn't read and respond to my entire post. The part where I explained that in organizations with inexperienced managers (obama), the subordinates run the show.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Apple is a prime example between the time they sacked Steve Jobs in 1986 (I believe) and he came back in late 98 it was a ship lost at sea... it's revolving door of CEO's had no idea what to do with or how to sell their product... and even though he can by all accounts be a royal pain in the arse... when they brought Jobs back they brought back someone who could focus, knew the product and more importantly had vision and he totally turned the company around. He didn't gut house when he returned but he gave the marching orders and set the tone and everything else followed suit.

Originally posted by centurion1211
After dishing it out for so long and in such nasty ways, it is nothing short of hypocritical whining to complain about getting some back.

Are you forgetting the eight years the right totally trashed Clinton every which way but lose?

After the way you guys treated him you have no grounds to complain about liberal distain for bush minor.

reply to post by centurion1211


Actually I didn't respond to it because it is irrelevant, I've been in organizations where complete noobs have been made CEO, and the same occurs. Sometimes the noob ceo is great, other times its a disaster. But either way it has to do with the policy which flows from the executive.

Such is the power of the executive. It brings great change.

Originally posted by centurion1211
After dishing it out for so long and in such nasty ways, it is nothing short of hypocritical whining to complain about getting some back. What, we're supposed to be the only ones willing to turn the other cheek? (Oops, forgot. That's something only Christians are supposed to do.)

Nah. Go for it, I personally will just wait until he gives me some good reason to freak. Right now, I am not freaking because this is what I expected. You knew as well as I did that Clinton-era people were going to move in on this.

And if you'll pay close attention here, you notice that instead of calling obama names (like curious george and worse), we are talking about real issues and real concerns about an obama governent. Now, I believe you'll have to admit, that IS a step in the right direction.

Those names will come, this isn't my first time at the rodeo. I got my avatars ready. At least I didn't have to turn Hillary into a woman.

[edit on 11/20/08 by niteboy82]

Originally posted by grover
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Apple is a prime example between the time they sacked Steve Jobs in 1986 (I believe) and he came back in late 98 it was a ship lost at sea... it's revolving door of CEO's had no idea what to do with or how to sell their product... and even though he can by all accounts be a royal pain in the arse... when they brought Jobs back they brought back someone who could focus, knew the product and more importantly had vision and he totally turned the company around. He didn't gut house when he returned but he gave the marching orders and set the tone and everything else followed suit.

This is soooo funny, because using your example above, the grossly inexperienced obama would be equivalent to the "CEO's had no idea what to do with or how to sell their product".

Originally posted by niteboy82

And if you'll pay close attention here, you notice that instead of calling obama names (like curious george and worse), we are talking about real issues and real concerns about an obama governent. Now, I believe you'll have to admit, that IS a step in the right direction.

Those names will come, this isn't my first time at the rodeo. I got my avatars ready.

They shouldn't. That would be against the T&C:

1g.) Political Baiting: You will not engage in politically-charged rhetoric, politically-inspired name-calling, and related right-versus-left political bickering while posting in any topical forum or discussion thread on AboveTopSecret.com. You will not alter political candidate names or party affiliations in order to insult or deride the opposition. i.e. "Shrillary", "McSame", "Obamanazi's", "Repukelicans", etc...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by centurion1211


Yep and as I mentioned above there are two types of noob CEO's


Those who bring great change, and those who bring disaster.


Let's wait and see which kind Obama is. I'm willing to take great risks in order to get great rewards, but then again, I'm a Liberal, and that's what we do.

As in Liberal arts, Liberal Sciences, Liberal Virtues and Liberal Capitalism. Have faith.

Originally posted by niteboy82
And again, I ask. What exactly are you expecting?

Actually, we are getting exactly what I expected. More of the same.

Obama ran on change from the old way of business in washington and that means change from washington insiders who have been 'part of the problem'. He used those terms about people being 'part of the problem'.

Now he's not delivering. (AS I EXPECTED).

True 'change' would be third party - Ron Paul, Baldwin (Constitution Party), Nader, Barr, etc etc. The people they would bring in would not have been 'part of the problem'.

reply to post by FlyersFan


You haven't gotten anything yet because the President Elect hasn't even been inaugurated!

For Pete's sake, you can't claim "THINGS ARE THE SAME" when there are not things to tell by.

Geesh. Some people are just sore losers.

Originally posted by niteboy82
I need an update, is this the trendy hip cool new word we're going to be using instead of "neocons"?

Clintonista - urban dictionary

A neo-marxist.
A die hard Clinton supporter.

The MSM uses it as anyone who was appointed by Clinton and worked as an ideologist in the Clinton administration.

reply to post by centurion1211


Experience is less important than vision and the ability to lead.

The problems with the CEO's at apple between Jobs and Jobs is that they simply could not relate to the whole computer world because their experience lay elsewhere... the first CEO after Jobs had worked at Coke...

... In short all their experience didn't amount to a hill of beans because it didn't relate.

Jobs is infamously difficult to work for but he has vision... knows what he wants... knows how to delegate and how to get out of the way when need be and knows quality... and those skills make all the difference in the world over someone with strictly managerial skills.

reply to post by centurion1211


You know the play on the political game my friend.

Read my computer lips Every politicians that wins the white house have a few jobs that he can not avoid, they are Paying back the big donor base (butt kissing), paying back their own party favors(more butt kissing) with more favors and keeping everybody in the pen happy.

The down fall is that the trash gets recycle in every presidential election regardless of who's party win.

And Everybody expect this and it happens all the time.

All we can do is criticize these political figures and try to bring out all their dirty rags.

Don't you know that this the way that the elite in the nation holds the power in the government?

[edit on 20-11-2008 by marg6043]

[edit on 20-11-2008 by marg6043]

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by centurion1211

 

Let's wait and see which kind Obama is. I'm willing to take great risks in order to get great rewards, but then again, I'm a Liberal, and that's what we do.

Alas, it's always with other people's money and other resources.

As in Liberal arts, Liberal Sciences, Liberal Virtues and Liberal Capitalism. Have faith.

Since most conservatives here are not "noobs", let me say that we have seen all of the above many times before.

That's why we are concerned - very concerned.

Look, folks...hate to burst your bubble but, wake up.

We are heading towards a depression.

Start buying every-day items like shaving cream, razors, tooth brushes, tooth paste, toiletries, socks, underwear, ect.

The prices of these items are going to go jump dramatically.

Buy gold or junk silver where you can.

This is probably going to get ugly.

reply to post by ConservativeJack


Yes, you are right the second great depression will be declared during the 2009.