Some of the responses on this thread I must admit are quite frightening to me. It seems like some are you are ready at the drop of a hat to turn on your neighbor. This is not the human way. I feel like this is one of the things that makes us human; compassion. I understand that desperate times call for desperate measures, but I feel like it would be much wiser to prepare now for a survival situation, rather than relying on stealing another's food when TSHTF. Practice setting rabbit snares or catching fish, learn what vegetation is edible in your location, and try lighting a fire without a lighter/matches. With just some basic survival skills, one could survive in the wild without having to resort to a betrayal of the human spirit.

Remember what they always taught us: Divided We Fall; United We Stand!

Great post OP!

[edit on 19-11-2008 by Gigliorononomicon]

Some pretty damn tough talk from alot of you all here in this thread.

First thing most of you all start talking about is be on your own and killing people. No wonder you are all so afraid of what might happen if that is the overall mentality you carry.

I know over half of you all wont have the heart to go through with it, dispite your words here. Maybe in the end when your weak and hungry, but I suppose its too late then.

Let's not forget that in the end, rationality goes out the windows in times of survival. We are no longer any different from an animal in the wild. That's what's in our D.N.A..

This is an excellent post. I truly believe that how people really are and what they are made of comes out in times of panic and despair. I am first and foremost, all about MY family. That means my kids and my wife are my first priority. Everything i do now I have them in mind. After that, it's my siblings and in-laws, and my best friends. WE all know that hard times are coming and we all know that we will do to help each other out as best we can. i am not afraid to do whatever it takes-and all that implies to ensure the survival of my Family......................

I don't have a clue what I'd do in such a situation, but I'd hope it was a reaction that could actually be justified years later in a new civilised society (not that it would be discussed).

However, while it is interesting and possibly disturbing what people are saying on here, the discussion seems to be of a total SHTF in which case attacking only to incapacitate would likely lead to the death of the opponent anyway, due to the fact that:

A) total SHTF describes a complete breakdown of society such that medical treatment (effective, at least) is extremely unlikely and any injury will, even if not immediately lethal, probably kill due to either direct effects like blood loss or will lead to starvation through restricted movement.

B) You can't use non lethal methods easily in such a situation. Tragic as it may be, but against someone who means to use lethal force on you, you want to hit them. With any sort of projectile, that means you would be aiming for their centre of mass (approximately), also known as their chest. And even if you only hit their leg, well, assuming you miss major arteries or veins, they now find it very painful to walk. Not good. Similarly with close ranged weaponry, be it spear, knife, sword, chainsaw etc, any injury will likely be really damaging, especially if you want them to immediately stop.

All in all, even if you don't intend on using lethal force, it is quite likely it will become lethal force in such a situation.

reply to post by Shystargazer

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As for me personally, I know that I would do whatever I can to help others. That is simply who I am. So I would NOT raise my hand against another to try and kill them. I would protect myself however I can but I will not try to kill.

But, when I start to bring my family into the mix. I see my four year old daughter and know for a fact that I would do WHATEVER IT TAKES to ensure her and her siblings safety. I would do WHATEVER IT TAKES to feed them and shelter them. If the well dries up I would be forced to go and find someone elses well (to put it bluntly).

So yes, I do fear what I would become if forced into a situation. For those elites that think that the people will simply cower and wait for help, well, I believe they are sadly mistaken and will wake up one day to a mob at their doors. No matter how many armed guards they have they will find themselves inundated with the hungry and I would fear for them.

I don't fear what I am capable of becoming if the SHTF.

I am aware that I'm human and that extreme circumstances would lead me to behave differently. But, I would do my best to act according to my current values, with any kind of calmness and wisdom that could be mustered.

I also realize that the illusion of civilization can disappear very quickly.

So, it's not me I fear, but other people who may forget all the lessons of how to play nice with others and how in the end it's actually in your own self-interest to do so. Because "no man is an island".

Well, this is the heart of what it is to be human. I believe what would actually happen, at least for us in mid Ohio, would be our community would band together. Kind of like in 'The Postman' or the stand. There will be those bad eggs that will need to be dealt with but I feel that humans will group together. It's basic survival. Sure, there will be those that feel they deserve more than others but what it will come down to is what you can provide in skills. Doctor's will receive more than guards. Plain and simple. Leaders will get more. But in the end, everyone will benefit from the community.

I also do NOT believe that the U.S. military will attack its own people. Period. Maybe UN or something along those lines but then they will have to deal with the U.S. military that stays behind. Even without leadership from the government they will defend the people. That is what I truly believe.

reply to post by dariousg

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I'm glad we are on the same page. It's funny you mentioned "The Postman"; IMO, great movie, highly underrated. I was thinking of this same movie when writing my post!

But anyways, I also 100% agree with you that the American military wouldn't turn against it's own people. I'm sure there will be those wacko's that actually would, but the majority I do not believe would do this to their own countrymen.

The problem there is that if the wackos that actually would are highly ranked enough, they can press all kinds of horrible buttons to make all kinds of horrible things happen....

reply to post by anotherdad

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Can't believe you would actually kill. Why don't you just take your three kids, move in to the woods or a forest, build a cabin and plant some seeds. Within a month you'll have a hundred pounds of food. As for water, well...stock up, build rain collectors, find a spring.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by Ferengi]

As with most anything in life, it boils down to where you are, how well prepared you are, and what you are willing to do to advance.

If you are in a metropolitian area, what you will/wont do is vastly different than someone in the Rocky Mountains.

To say that you will kill anyone who comes near your family is all well and good, but the mistake made was getting into that posistion to begin with.

If you are in downtown LA right now reading this, you are going to need to be capable of a hell of a lot more than some guy out in the middle of nowhere with neighbors he trusts and ample food and water supplies.

Honestly capable? Of killing someone, of robbing someone, watching others starve? Sure, why not. I'll go along with the majority of posters on here and give up that answer. In reality however, the likelyhood of needing to be capable of doing any of the above is so remote, I've never really thought about it.

If/when TSHTF, the first few days will be chaos and panic in the cities. Too bad for you. After a week, roaming gangs will emerge as resources become more scarce. After that, anarchy.

The real question isnt how far would you go to defend your life and your family, the question is how willing are you right now to ensure these things are not part of your future?

Move to a small town and make less money? Learn to grow your own food? Start living without the modern creature comforts we all enjoy?

What are you willing to give up now in order to never need to resort to bloodshed and panic and fear when our world implodes?

I think this is a completely bogus statement.

Hunger, poverty and the like have been around in the ages of man for years already. Though it is true it triggers alot of violence, beeing on your own and act like an animal in the wild is just nonsense. We are diffrent from them, hence why we as a species evolved like we have.

I know for a fact if such a thing would happen, I would stick close with my loved ones. That is my family and close friends. Just beeing one man with 3 kids to protect in the meantime will mean you are done for within a week.

in my opinion, there is really no way to know what any of us will do when TSHTF. there are some exceptions, but its not gonna be an easy adjustment for most of us. I say get prepared, tell your neighbors to prepare, and hope you dont have to use deadly force to defend what youve worked for. I personally have been preparing for only a short time, and am worried, but Im trying to get essentials together. I have a new son, only 10months old. I feel my wife and I could live in the wilderness and survive, but I am worried for my son. Ill do everything in my power to keep him safe, but the point is we dont really know what were capable of until put in the situation.
Make plans if you havent,plan for the worst, Pray for your family, and hope for the best.

By reading a lot of these comments i recon that a lot of you have never done any really hard core survival scenarios before at all.

There is only one thing you can be certain of and that is that you dont know what kind of survival situation you will be in under and after the event.

But i most certainly would know that the situation your in will demand that you act on it and not as preplanned.

There is reasons for that.

1. You might not know when the event will take place. You might be caught of guard. And you will not know what kind of event you will have to deal with.

2. You might get injured in the event.

3. You might get trapped by the event.

4. You might be all alone with out your family.

And so on,there are many things you cant preplanned for when it comes to a disaster or survival.

And an other thing if your out there trying to survive and you haven't seen people for days or weeks. Getting back to civilisation might be your nr 1 goal of surviving. I am moust serten of it.

Just go out into the woods and stay there for a week or two. Tell me if i am wrong. You would be happy to see people friends or not.

A thing you have to have in mind is that you will change your opinion on many things when you are out there surviving and having a tough time. They will not be like the once you have now at all.
Your thouht's will be totaly different.
I bet you will have friendly thought's conserning other survivors when the surviving gets realy hard core.


There is a saying that some times we need a desaster as boost to care for other people.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Easy their Frank Castle. Dispensing justice in a survival situation may not be as simple as you believe.

If the SHTF as you put it I'd probably be more concerned about my friends and family than myself, but no, I think it'd go the other way and community spirit would become the strongest and most plentiful method of survival...

I'm not saying that flippently either...look at Cuba; when the USSR fell Cuba was left isolated to international trade, but instead of descending into anarchy, every citizen grew food wherever they could (window-boxes etc.) and shared it amongst themselves. The community spirit there was greater than it had ever been, and now the Cubans are extremely suspicious of outside trade. And rightly so.

When there's nobody listening to those who tell you to fear, we will stop being afraid.

The only thing we really need is food and clean water. Everything else from the roof over your head to your XBox is a luxury. You ever see 'Hurricane', when Rubin Carter (well Denzil Washington, but even if he didn't say it in real life it's worth hearing!) says 'They deny me the right to read, so I deny myself the need to read,' or something along those lines...this is the mental attitude you should take...as long as you eat, keep your head down and trust your survival instincts (you never lose them) you will still see the next day

See you on the other side. It'll be lovely, we'll take tea and talk about the bad old days x

3 days and you will steal for food, 7 days and you'll kill for food. It would really have nothing to do with beliefs if it got to that point.