Thank you Slaves of the World,You can call me convict

Times are going to get bad. They know that they cannot hold every one of us. Thats why the FEMA concentration camps were build. Most of us will not be lucky enough to go to jail...

reply to post by LostNemesis


Well you are kind of right...somewhere on the web there is a study which correlates the incidents of theft reported by Wal Mart and the state of the economy. Which brings us to the point I think the OP is trying to make. Sometimes crime does pay. Not that I condone it in anyway...just an observation.

My point is if the laws were stricter and help the criminal be more productive in society and not alienate them after they get out ,there might actually be less of them and less likely for them to go back

For starters,jail is a sentence to county for anything from a year and under. Anything over is prison unless you run 2 bullets which is 2 single, consecutive year sentences back 2 back. So technically the max you can do in county jail is 2 years with a manipulation of the sentencing.

So unless you plan on doing many years in prison, you're basically talking about a skid bid in county then have to come back to the real world and live by society's rules and do everything you claimed you don't have to do.

Also, if you have ever been to jail or prison you are assigned a job and do have to work. If you refuse to then you are written up for disciplinary action and sent for a hearing. If found to be non complient that means they take away any of your good behavior (so much for an early release) and then you are sent to solitary where you spend 23 hrs a day in a cell and are allowed 10 minutes to shower and an hour for yard.

So if you enjoy sitting in a cage for 23 hrs a day, yeah I guess you don't have to work or have any type of a life. Just sit and let your mind eat itself apart until you are an incoherent vegetable.

Yeah I can see the benefits of this and why you would thank everyone.

I was saying it from a third person point of view not my own,

and from the third person perspective what would be the worst case senerio your locked up in solitary confinement(safe in a cell away from the people that might want to hurt you)

Im playing the devils advocate here and thinking from both sides of the coin

sure I might go crazy being locked up alone but i'm safe.

I thank the inmates for a TOTALLY secure job, full benefits and an excellent wage. Not to mention I get to sleep in a decent bed, eat decent food and get to do whatever I want 16 hours of the day.

Prison is no fun. The food sucks, the bedding is uncomfortable, they have to work in places like the laundry and I can tell you, you need a gas mask to work there. Oh, wait, they aren't provided with them.

Im sure once people get distracted with some natural disaster... that soilent green will show up and our inmate population will mysteriously decline. mmm mmmm good.

Originally posted by rtcctr
I was saying it from a third person point of view not my own,

and from the third person perspective what would be the worst case senerio your locked up in solitary confinement(safe in a cell away from the people that might want to hurt you)

Im playing the devils advocate here and thinking from both sides of the coin

sure I might go crazy being locked up alone but i'm safe.

First of all there is no "SAFE". You act as if these guards are really there to help. They could care less. Prison is full of drugs rape and murder. If you think the streets of NYC are unsafe, try prison. Even in solitary, if htey want to , they will find a way to get you. It may just be the guard who sets you up. Believe that.

Just to disprove your safe theory, here's a link to an interesting documentary.

Some Content is GRAPHIC, Viewer Discretion is Advised

Honestly brother, there's nothing pleasant or no "ADVANTAGES" to being behind bars. A minor bid is something you look at and say "that was an experience. Spend a few years behind bars and watch as the reality sets in. It sucks.

So to answer your post. Theres a hell of a lot more disadvantages to being locked up. You would just have to unfortunately be there to experience it and watch as your entire list of advantages shrinks while they disadvantages list would easily quadruple.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
I think, existentially speaking, the point of the OP is that often, unfortunately, it is more beneficial to be bad than good.

Speaking only for myself, I actually did understand that that was the point rtcctr was trying to make, and I was just trying to respond.

It is not more beneficial to be bad than good. In my opinion, it is never in the long run more beneficial to be bad than good – even though I don't believe in an afterlife or reincarnation. I genuinely believe that the cost in self-loathing and alienation from society is higher than the benefits that cheats and thieves get.

In the particular instance of prison, though, I think it is a gross misunderstanding of human nature to think that you can measure punishment in economic terms, or that it is only punishment if you are forced to work. Being locked up is a terrible punishment for most human beings; having so little control over who and what you are exposed to would be unbearable for most of us; the atmosphere of fear and paranoia, of always having to watch your back, is brutal.

Most people can only bear a certain amount of inactivity – when you're feeling overworked and stressed out, it sounds great to get to sit around and watch TV for the next ten-to-fifteen. But try to actually imagine that. And remember you probably don't get to hog the remote, you don't get to go the fridge for a beer or a sandwich, you don't get to call up a friend when you're bored, you don't get to multitask and surf the Web while the commercials are on. You don't have your comfy chair, you're watching with a whole bunch of people who are looking for ways to get over on you or each other because everyone is just trying to make the time a little more bearable.

I think many of the people who have responded here are reacting to the same thing I reacted to: the concept that sitting around in prison is remotely comparable to sitting around anywhere else, and the idea that being locked up is not punishing in itself.

The OP is not trolling.

I didn't think he was a troll, and if he has been made to feel that way by any of my posts in this thread, I'm sorry. I can strenuously disagree with someone but still recognize that they were asking a genuine question

Example. A shoplifter can net 10X more per hour than the clerk he/she is stealing from makes in a week. The clerk is probably held accountable and the company just makes a claim to it's insurance company to recoup its losses.

And the shoplifter is a thief. I'd rather be the clerk, myself.

Who is the slave? What is the intrinsic cost of immoral choices? Just asking...

And it's a perfectly valid question.

But, slave to what? I think criminals are most often slaves to greed, a false sense of entitlement, and mistrust of others. I think they are much less happy than honest people.

I'd rather be content with myself and with others than rich. Trusting other people is one of the most rewarding experiences that we can have – I'm still working on getting there, but I know the way there is not through crime or taking advantage of others, but through being trustworthy myself.

Originally posted by americandingbat
I'd rather be content with myself and with others than rich. Trusting other people is one of the most rewarding experiences that we can have – I'm still working on getting there, but I know the way there is not through crime or taking advantage of others, but through being trustworthy myself.

Agreed. Excellent points, eloquently made.



[edit on 16/11/2008 by kosmicjack]

I went to jail for stealing so I could eat because there were no jobs available where i lived(out in the boonies)

Yes I commited a crime but it was not out of greed it was out of necessity and now im labled a thief which noone wants to hire me and I collect cans just to survive in society...I am living with people that care that im struggeling to live and I thank them for it

And for the one that thanked the inmates that you have a steady job...your welcome and remember that i sometimes dont eat for two days....now dont you feel so good about yourself

but thats the american way ...me me me and never think about the people that are struggling to survive

Actually, career criminals make up a relatively small percentage of prisoners in America. Malconformist, of whatever flavor, make up the greater portion. Those who accept jail as a consequence of their lifestyle, and are comfortable with that idea, are usually found only among that group defined as "working criminals", meaning those who choose "employment" in those pursuits deemed "unlawful", and this choice is almost always based on the idea of a greater return on investments/time.

Most crimes, aside from those that fall under the heading of crimes of passion, which include the mentally twisted, are more of the "odd job" variety and opportunistic in nature. Very few crimes, despite Hollywood, are done except by those just too lazy to miss a chance on a big score, and too stupid to know the deck is stacked against them, or in moments of altered judgment.

The rest just become politicians or investment bankers.

Originally posted by rtcctr
And for the one that thanked the inmates that you have a steady job...your welcome and remember that i sometimes dont eat for two days....now dont you feel so good about yourself

I feel fine about myself. I lived in a repressed part of Canada(not the US ) I wasn't making enough to support my family, they lived on welfare. I moved to a prosperous part of the country, without my family for 2.5 years. Started from scratch and 6 years later we owned a house, 2 cars and live quite well. There are always options to criminal behavior. One just has to make the right decision and have the cohones to make it work.

It takes a certain type of person to adapt to prison life.(for the long run)
1) Be willing to live with the fact that he or she is the property of state in wich sentenced.
2) Being said property, would be subject to penalties for disobediance that is similler to the conditions imposed upon a mongrel dog ie Isolation, restraints, physical abuse not to mention death in some cases.
3)Knowing that (if first visit) you will forever be labelled as a convicted felon or at best ex-felon by "proper society" upon release.(what a title!)
4)Be willing to accept medial vocational training,for wich one is compensated for at the rate of about 12 cents per hour.(barley usefull for anything more then the hope of one day becoming assistant MGR of the tire and lube express) where of course you'll recieve regular visits from your CONTROLLER,oh I mean parole officer.(that is if one is released)
5)Be willing to have knowledge of your "celly's" bathroom routine and habbits(all of them)

6)Know exactly how many cinder blocks your cell is made up of, and all of the little inperfections that make each one up.
7)Be willing to submit urine samples when and where told to do so(while a member of your same sex vigilently watches)
8)Have limited menu choices daily( hmmm I think I'll go with the ramen noodles and kool-aid and for desert I'll have the honey bun...Yummmm!
9)If one is a "lifer", have the down deep knowledge in oneself that they just could not make it in the "free world" so a life of state controlled day to day routines and activites await as well a fitting rec program minus the swmming pool( it's called the yard most people keep their animals contained in something simmiler) and in the end after the state has carried the burden of your care for years and years you will expire(naturaly or otherwise) having lived a very fullfilling life or what was left of it as another outcast of socitey having been denied for so long the small freedoms that your so call "slaves" enjoy daily.
Of course these are just some of my thought on your post, I have plenty more should you like to know them,but really who are the slaves again?

reply to post by Wertdagf


No to mention sharing the ol' posterior. I like it out here where I get to have sex, eat bad food and play with guns. And the drinking... love the drinking.

reply to post by rtcctr


I wonder if you are aware of any resources in your community that could help you get on your feet? a city shelter should be able to provide you with a list that is if you are willing to work and support yourself with the premise that "one step at a time" will improve that situation given enough effort .

I just caught on to third person view in your post so I any of responces were crude I didn't mean them that way I was only defending my view of one's freedoms though some don't agree that they are indeed free.Being incarcerated for any period of time does not intail what the movies make it out to be, the inmates do whatever they have to do to survive on their on terms and that varries greatly from facillity to facillity, and all that "free" stuff that is mentioned is minute compared to the time it takes to even earn a lower security level enough so to use that 'free" cable or the limited yard time and if an inmate has no money on his or her books guess what? no commissary that means all meals prepaired by other inmates is what is being served and the quality control might not be what you would expect.Movies depict this lifestyle in a bad light.

The one thing we should provide them with, but in most cases don't. How about a Free Electric Chair to keep them nice and toasty.

I hate to say this, but I know some women in the teen to twenties range who are mothers. Three of them would be not-immediately related had I wed.
The fathers of their children...well let me break it down.
One is a repeat offender and doing 46 months in prison.
One is a repeat offender and will be transported from a 6 month jail encarseration to prison for 40 months.
One is a repeat offender and I'm sure he will be back in when he is caught again.
There is a fourth as well. Yet another repeat offender but has stayed out awhile, has shown signs of change, but hops from job to job and spirals for the worst at times. He too may be back there sometime in the future.

What blows my mind, is that these women, (I should say girls due to their adolescent behavior) not only at times throw money at these felons for extra goodies or whatever, but I've had to, out of protective kindheartedness towards their children, at times give money to them for diapers, formula, gas, basic expenses because they gave their felon "better halves" money that should have gone towards raising the children.
On top of this, they find ways to cheat the phone system to engage in conversations at times, and huddle by the phones at calling hours for they dare not miss a call from prison.
They are mentally controlled over the phone and I've heard them answer as a slave would to a master, including explaining who might be visiting, where they were play by play since the last call, and basically treat them like dirt from prison phones.
Yet, these females I'll call them now, are devoted so blatantly to these criminals and I feel they get some sort of excitement out of being Bonnies to a den of Clydes.
It thoughouly discusts me to no end yet, I am powerless to do anything but insure the children have what they need and some nuturing.
I will never understand the mentality of their non-desire to pursue anything else, and IMHO, they are the prisoners by choice mind you, as well as slaves to men who are no more fathers than the wind blows.
Any attempt to show them better ways to live their lives than to cater to a phone spewing harsh words is met with indignation and stubborness.
Lastly, when the two in prison were free (last year it was), they were hanging with their kind, and with whorish women constantly, only to be with these girls when they ran out of places to stay, people to use, or needed to sleep off their drug and alcohol induced exhaustion.
I gave the one who is trying a Mercedes I rarely drive this summer for pennies on the dollar and payments.
Within a week, he quit his job and got it towed for illegal parking. I have yet to see a dime.
Am I foolish? Some may say so, but I try and help those who show incentive. It seems that they relapse before they get on their feet, and either revolve to the jail doors, or just lose all signs of effort.

Anyways, my point is, These girls would be better off if they were the ones in jail for, they have less freedom than an inmate...all by enigmatic choice.

I'll still be here for the children no matter what.

reply to post by rtcctr

i retired from the Department Of Corrections after 24 years of service..Either you were NOT incarcerated in prison/jail Or you were in a very, very minimum security prison. Also you state that you do not work, maybe in jail you don't, but I will assure you that unless you are on death row..YOU WILL WORK. in prison..I have conversed with Thousands of inmates over the course of my career and they hate losing freedom when you are incarcerated.

You are told what to do, when, and how to do it. Aids is/was rampant when I worked in Corrections and if you are not: 1) the biggest baddest inmate.

2) affiliated with a gang.

3)Homosexual to start with and love being there..


You will in the course of your stay be somehow exposed and possibly contact aids, tuberculosis.
or some other disease..I think either you are not truthful and have never been incarcerated to start with...