Near-death experiences are real and we have the proof, say scientists, page 3
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 37 times


reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 11:25 AM by pause4thought
reply to post by melatonin


No Sir. The problem is 'science' often lacks the humility to admit there are some spheres in which it cannot operate effectively.

Some facts have to be established on the basis of available evidence as opposed to repeatable evidence, and as such cannot be subjected to the scientific method.

A prime example is the question of whether or not a suspect is guilty of a crime. The decision is based on consideration of evidence of events that took place in the past and which by their very nature are not repeatable.

If you wish to call first-hand and eye-witness testimony "anecdotes", as you do in the case of NDEs, then by analogy you can discount the entire system of justice as "beliefs based on anecdotal evidence".

There are however, literally billions of people throughout history who, on examination of the evidence, have concluded that Christ rose from the dead three days after his death, precisely as he had promised, and also in keeping with millennia of prophetic writings. We have also concluded that he can therefore keep his promise to grant his disciples an unending existence with our Maker.

Having become convinced this is so, and knowing Christ's resurrection is not a repeatable event, I do not pretend science could prove or disprove the veracity of the event.

However if you wish to insist you would only believe on the basis of repeatable facts, you might as well reject all of history.



reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 11:38 AM by Smugallo
reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers



You don't have to take my word for it... think of it this way.

How old is the universe? According to science it's is about 15 billion years old. if you were born, lets say, 20 years ago, then before you were born you didn't exist for billions of years. Dead basically. Any memories of that long long long peroid of time? None.


reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 12:03 PM by Toadmund
Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by melatonin



There are however, literally billions of people throughout history who, on examination of the evidence, have concluded that Christ rose from the dead three days after his death, precisely as he had promised, and also in keeping with millennia of prophetic writings. We have also concluded that he can therefore keep his promise to grant his disciples an unending existence with our Maker.





Is this your evidence?
Billions of believers does not a fact make. Billions could be wrong.
(no I try not like Yoda be)
What evidence is there that Christ rose again? Did he even die the first time?
Words in a book mean nothing.
The evidence that science provides is the evidence we'll go with here.

Are there near death experiences?
Yes, there are.

Are there death experiences?
That we don't know, and we have no evidence for that.

In my opinion a near death experiencer is not dead, if they were totally brain dead they would not have come back at all to tell the tale.

So, to drag religion into this is like saying that water is liquid because we need it that way to quench our thirst.
You can't prove something true with something that itself needs evidence for.

I hope we live on, but NDE's do not the provide the evidence I am looking for, neither does the bible.


reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 12:04 PM by melatonin
Originally posted by pause4thought
No Sir. The problem is 'science' often lacks the humility to admit there are some spheres in which it cannot operate effectively.


So, in a thread focused on a new scientific study on NDEs, we fall into a criticism of the very method that could confirm the hypothesis of consciousness surviving death.

Uh-huh.

If it confirms your pre-existing ideas, it's all about professionals not amateurs, otherwise it a hubristic group of closed-minded fools.

The confirmation bias in this one is strong, young padawan...

Some facts have to be established on the basis of available evidence as opposed to repeatable evidence, and as such cannot be subjected to the scientific method.

A prime example is the question of whether or not a suspect is guilty of a crime. The decision is based on consideration of evidence of events that took place in the past and which by their very nature are not repeatable.


This is an experimental scientific study and readily repeatable.

If you wish to call first-hand and eye-witness testimony "anecdotes", as you do in the case of NDEs, then by analogy you can discount the entire system of justice as "beliefs based on anecdotal evidence".


I call a spade a spade.

There are however, literally billions of people throughout history who, on examination of the evidence, have concluded that Christ rose from the dead three days after his death, precisely as he had promised, and also in keeping with millennia of prophetic writings. We have also concluded that he can therefore keep his promise to grant his disciples an unending existence with our Maker.

Having become convinced this is so, and knowing Christ's resurrection is not a repeatable event, I do not pretend science could prove or disprove the veracity of the event.


And we retreat to the last refuge of the theological rascal.

This is completely irrelevant. The thread is about a new study which will assess the notion that consciousness exists after biological death.

I couldn't care less about Jay-sus.

However if you wish to insist you would only believe on the basis of repeatable facts, you might as well reject all of history.


This is a scientific experiment.

I know it's hard to accept, but all you have shown is that you are closed-minded, after asking others to be open-minded.

Good show though. Now read over the thread with an open-mind and view it in its glory.

Originally posted by pause4thought
The unwillingness of some people to open their minds to the possibility their preconceptions are wrong simply does not lend itself to getting to the bottom of a matter.

...

There is a lot of evidence out there for those with an honest, open, enquiring mind.


Uh-huh.


reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 12:10 PM by Good Wolf
reply to post by Interestinggg


Well lets differentiate all the situations. Out-of-body experiences are different to Near-death experiences (light & tunnel).

Some of these phenomena are easy to explain, most of it comes down to the dyeing throws of the brain and various other organs. The light at the end of the tunnel is explained as the eyes shutting down, where the inner-most light sensitive cells remain receptive long after the outer-most giving the impression of light in a dark tunnel. Then the is the shutting down of particular brain parts specifically. In controlled conditions when have the ability to shut down parts of the brain in the lab. In fact NDEs are completely re-creatable in the lab, down to every aspect.

Out of body experiences are more complicated and unexplainable yet don't appear mystical in any way. Being able to see/hear things that should be unable to be seen or heard by patients in the OR can simply be unconscious deduction that is preserved in memory.

The other thing to keep in mind is that we are only beginning to scratch the surface when it come tos understanding the mind and what it can do.


reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 12:19 PM by Dock6
reply to post by melatonin




You ducked and weaved re: this one, didn't you


If you wish to call first-hand and eye-witness testimony "anecdotes", as you do in the case of NDEs, then by analogy you can discount the entire system of justice as "beliefs based on anecdotal evidence".




Your response: " I call a spade a spade. "


The other guy gets top marks.


reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 12:22 PM by Deaf Alien
There is a very good NDE site that I read from time to time.
www.near-death.com...

This NDE experiencers' account is one of my favorite. While she was out of body, she noticed a red shoe on the roof. Then

I was relating this to a [skeptical] resident who in a mocking manner left. Apparently, he got a janitor to get him onto the roof. When I saw him later than day, he had a red shoe and he became a believer, too.

www.near-death.com...

Here's some evidence that people who are born blind can see during a NDE.
www.near-death.com...

There are plenty of evidence that people do leave their bodies during NDE.



reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 12:25 PM by Good Wolf
reply to post by Distractions4Nothing


They can be preserved though, which is very important in all this. NDEs could all occur under a minute with some time dilation (like in dreams) and then preserved in memory. When the person wakes up at the end of it, in there memory it seems like they have been experiencing something the whole time when they are just recalling something from a while ago.


reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 12:32 PM by Explosions in The Sky
Check this vid out.

www.youtube.com...

Probally the most convincing story to support life after death i ever heard.

[edit on 9-11-2008 by Explosions in The Sky]
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