Best western states to escape to when SHTF

This guy has done all the hard work in ranking the best states to live and retire to in case the *&^% hits the fan (SHTF). The criteria he used is very insightful. For instance, length of growing season, State Firearms Laws Ranking, Crime Safety Ranking and ACT/SAT scores ranking. I like the last one, nothing worse than the hills full of gun totting hillbillies with 2nd grade educations. !!

Anyway, here is the list.

1 Idaho
2 Montana
3 Oregon
4 Washington
5 Wyoming
6 Utah
7 South Dakota
8 North Dakota
9 Arizona
10 Colorado
11 Nebraska
12 Kansas
13 Texas
14 Nevada
15 New Mexico
16 Arkansas
17 Oklahoma
18 Louisiana
19 California

Alaska and Hawaii were left off because of the remoteness, however, it could be argued that for hardcore survivalists, Alaska is nirvana. I'm not comfortable with Oregon being listed that high. IMHO, all west coast states ( CA, OR and WA) are too risky due to earthquakes.

A detailed ranking can be found here:

www.survivalblog.com...

But the real question is when it hits the fan, how can one even go across the other states not listed to get to those mentioned?

You'd have to be yet already in those states listed before it hits the fan, basically.

Originally posted by Mabus
But the real question is when it hits the fan, how can one even go across the other states not listed to get to those mentioned?

You'd have to be yet already in those states listed before it hits the fan, basically.

Yes, that's why I mentioned in the op it is a list for the SHTF scenario and retirees.

Apparently, like minded folk are already settled in 4 counties in Wyoming and are looking to expand the communites.

Free State Wyoming

reply to post by venividivici

The Southwest States are safer than northern , deep southern ,or coastal states. The deserted and less inhabited areas of Texas in the panhandle and close to Mexico and New Mexico are pretty safe especially if you can aquire a well. Arizona is good ,but it is dry. New Mexico is probably the best place in the southwest because they have mountains and forests. Ironically being closer to chaotic Mexico is a good thing at this time.

reply to post by eradown


Why would it be better to be closer to Mexico when food and fuel are scarce?

I love Arizona and New Mexico but the desert is one of my last choices due to lack of water for consumption and irrigation for crops. THey do have great golf courses however !!

Nice find, thumbs up.

Originally posted by venividivici
IMHO, all west coast states ( CA, OR and WA) are too risky due to earthquakes.

I've lived in Oregon all of my life and have never experienced any kind of earthquake. When I was living in Portland, never experienced one, or where I currently live. But, I'm aware that if you live near the coast, there has been a lot of seismic activity up there this past year that was hitting hard off the coast. So, my plan would be to just stay away from the coast, in a the SHTF scenario.

I'd be going somewhere far...far away from any major city. If food becomes scarce, there will complete chaos in major cities. People will flood out from NYC, Chicago, etc. to try and live and eat. Imagine that...MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of people flooding the countryside. That means that if you are sitting comfy on some farmland you could possibly have many new friends wanting a piece of your pie.

I hope this never happens..it's a scary thought. People will be killing each other just to eat.

This isn't like the Great Depression. There are just too many people to feed and so much of our food is already imported from other countries.

Didn't I read on ATS that the CIA is moving to Denver? When the SHTF, it's gonna come flying out of their S cannons. Maybe Colorado should be taken off the list. Great state otherwise.

reply to post by venividivici

the best for me and closest would be the pass coming from the central valley over to the barstow calif area. one of the few places that has the highest number of days for continueous wind (for windmill power) coupled with one of the highest amount of days with sun (solar power), at night you could set out huge sheets of plastic shaped like a funnel to catch the evening moisture, because of the dew point. high enough for any global icesheet melting and remote enough to defend.

Originally posted by venividivici
reply to post by eradown

 

Why would it be better to be closer to Mexico when food and fuel are scarce?

I love Arizona and New Mexico but the desert is one of my last choices due to lack of water for consumption and irrigation for crops. THey do have great golf courses however !!

It is because the southwest has a reputation for being a wild inhospitable place, it is a good retreat. With careful exploration you can find pocketts of perfection which fortunately always escape envious eyes. Many places in the Southwest have plenty of ground water.

Originally posted by venividivici
Alaska and Hawaii were left off because of the remoteness, however, it could be argued that for hardcore survivalists, Alaska is nirvana. I'm not comfortable with Oregon being listed that high. IMHO, all west coast states ( CA, OR and WA) are too risky due to earthquakes.

I've been told that Hawaii is more red that the former Soviet Union. True or not I can't say. Anyone here have personal experience?

I've been told by credible sources that there is significant contamination in Alaska due to government dumping. If you're tough enough to go this route, be sure to test your groundwater. Also, a detailed check on previous US government presence near your potential homestead might just save your health and money.

Alaska would be the last place you want to be in shft scenario. There is simple reason for that, cold and snow. Farming can only be done in summer, which means heavy rationing at winter. In winter you would need to go back to hunter and gather for extra food. probable shft scenario includes climate going haywire. probably means alaska gets even colder. Heating your shelter after powergrid and fuel supply failure means lots of wood chopping. all this require very well prepared base, with insulated housing and preplanned food mapping.

I live in Finland. we have little bit milder climate than alaska, but i would very much rather be somewhere lots souther in survival situation. Freezing cold is not nice after your central heating fails.

reply to post by venividivici


It's a great list. It's particularly nice that he put a variety of measures into his ranking, which makes it more robust than using only one issue (say, 2nd Amendment considerations) to base decisions on.

Of course, how helpful using this list as a guide is also depends on what kind of S you expect to HTF. For example, in a big ol' nuclear exchange, a lot of those states are bad choices. (Some fallout maps and discussion on this ATS thread.) Or, if you think the Yellowstone caldera is an issue, that should change your list of places to live. Same with earthquakes in California.

You have to cover as many outcomes as you can without being paralyzed by fear of all the what if's that come to mind. Being informed is good, and the list venividivici posted is a great way to get more informed.

Mabus is right: You need to start going to the "country" before there is a need.

Here's what I think: Anywhere you try to go, there will be native people, who already know how to: Hide there, and 2: Eat there. All you need to do is go to the local rangers and ask them what the natives did, and you'll find you can live.

Any place which looks inhospitable, but which you can survive in, is good enough. I would imagine that the best hiding places in America are known by the Natives of America.

And as for the S hitting the F, well, that happened for Indian America over 150 years ago. They've weathered it and they are prepared for the re-emrgence of their ways on the American continent. Maybe if the buffalo were allowed to roam the US again, there'd never be starvation in the US? But do we really want to run over a buffalo in our SUVs? That sounds very dangerous!

Usually when I go walking on a nature trail, I se little forestry signs which tell me what plants the indians ate. How hungry do you have to be to eat a plant straight from the ground? Hungrier than most propertied middle-class Americans have ever been.

Who is holding the S that it gets aimed at the fan so ACCURATELY? That is my question to any historians, or survivalists.

Originally posted by venividivici

Apparently, like minded folk are already settled in 4 counties in Wyoming and are looking to expand the communites.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "when the SHTF". West coast would not be good due to possibility of a major earthquake but wouldn't Wyoming be a bad place to live as well? I believe Wyoming has Yellowstone which is classified as a Super Volcano. I've heard that Yellowstone is long overdue for a major "venting"

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Mabus is right: You need to start going to the "country" before there is a need.

Here's what I think: Anywhere you try to go, there will be native people, who already know how to: Hide there, and 2: Eat there. All you need to do is go to the local rangers and ask them what the natives did, and you'll find you can live.

Any place which looks inhospitable, but which you can survive in, is good enough. I would imagine that the best hiding places in America are known by the Natives of America.

And as for the S hitting the F, well, that happened for Indian America over 150 years ago. They've weathered it and they are prepared for the re-emrgence of their ways on the American continent. Maybe if the buffalo were allowed to roam the US again, there'd never be starvation in the US? But do we really want to run over a buffalo in our SUVs? That sounds very dangerous!

Usually when I go walking on a nature trail, I se little forestry signs which tell me what plants the indians ate. How hungry do you have to be to eat a plant straight from the ground? Hungrier than most propertied middle-class Americans have ever been.

Who is holding the S that it gets aimed at the fan so ACCURATELY? That is my question to any historians, or survivalists.

The problem is ownership of land. The collapse of the housing market is designed to make as many Americans homeless as possible; it's a land grab. The elite want huge luxurious hunting lodges for themselves.Getting rid of land ownership is not the answer.

The people holding the S wrongly believe that they will win a confrontation with the American elite. What the S holders do not realize is that they are stage managing their own destruction on top of the destruction of many middle class Americans. Instead of asking who is holding the S you should ask who gave the S to those people. The answer is very telling. Also ask why they would give away such weapons if they did not have one better. As much as I dislike these people who have done this ,I know they are not stupid.You find that the people who gave out weapons of mass destruction to American enemies have ties to population control(eugenics)groups. They feed off blood and destruction. If every major city in America went up inflames along with all of China. The subhuman elite of America would set in their overly luxurious bunkers patting each other on the back and roast marshmellows.

Originally posted by eradownThe problem is ownership of land. The collapse of the housing market is designed to make as many Americans homeless as possible; it's a land grab. The elite want huge luxurious hunting lodges for themselves.Getting rid of land ownership is not the answer.

I hear what you are saying, and appreciate your reply very much. I am in the mindset of a native American, so owning land is an imperfect concept, one which will not exist in the future. I don't need to own the land, to survive on it. I need only keep my family/people fed, hidden, and warm.

If the SHTF, this means that all white people will be as hopeless and pitiful as the natives have been for 200 years. Whites blacks, indians and everyone, will be shunted toward government housing, i.e. "the res". But always there'll be people living in the woods, eating small game and nuts/berries/roots.

I don't need to own the land, to survive on it. I need only keep my family/people fed, hidden, and warm. Eventually, natural order says that civilization will return again, is just will ebb for a moment while we pass through this tough transition.

Instead of asking who is holding the S you should ask who gave the S to those people.

You are so right. It is the people, who gave the power to those who can fling the S, and create this panic.

But whereas you, me and everyone on ATS is obviously above-average in terms of intelligence, I think we may have to agree that the mass of common folk need a simpler solution. It's almost as if the 20% of the smart folks on Earth are compelled to dominate the other 80% so as not to have to explain anything to them. Explaining and making people understand is harder them just silently rolling your eyes and hurling the S at the fan, making all the people scatter for cover.


Anyway, the best places in the West, are the places where you yourself are found to be a generous, protective person. I believe a person carries their past with them, and if a person is good in spirit, their foot will be guided by forces external to this world. Rather than worrying about "Where will I hide?" people should be worried about "What kind of person will I be, while hiding under stress?" ...If under stress, and lack of police, a person can still act lawfully and believes in a benevolent Creator who watches and smiles upon good deeds, then it doesn't matter where you go, because the people there, will respect you, and will covenant with you.

[edit on 10-11-2008 by smallpeeps]

If you come to southern Arizona make sure you bring your asbestos suit. You get sunburned in the shade out here.

ahh, it's about time my fair state made number one in something.

Yes it's true, here you can forget about the miserable earthquakes... the deadly smog (unless you live in Boise) and the idea of falling off into the sea.

Frankly though, I feel that within the next 8 to 11 years this place will be exploding in growth just for those very facts alone, and eventually we will be in the same position as the other western states. It hasn't gotten here yet, in my 30 some years... but I see it around the bend. Urban sprawl is already underway, the places I once went camping when I was younger are now pay to camp areas, everywhere I go I see out of state plates, but yet nothing has essentially changed in my neck of the woods (or sagebrush) for that matter.

The economy here is still bunk, we have the highest (relatively speaking) gas prices in the nation, and most of us here drive old cars and trucks that get 8mpg. Californication has stimulated the housing market enough to be outside of most of our means of affordability... and they have yet to decline like the rest of the nation.
(just don't get me started on wages)

But, I ain't bitc**n... in fact, I welcome each an everyone one of you here, and if you are on the same wavelength, we might get along. I wouldn't mind showing you around, ya know, there are still some places.. wide open spaces where the mind can expand.

Here is one, and you are welcome.
Just remember, some of us were born into it.
No matter where you go, you take of it what you make of it.

salutations,
T minus

You can go north to Alaska and catch a fairy across from Senator Palins house to Russia. Otherwise pack a shotgun and find me in the mountains!