Deliberate Derailment.

My favorite part is when people try to bait you and go off topic, and you respond, certain moderators will remove your off topic response to the baiting but not the original baiting post. This does not usually happen, only when some of the more overtly biased moderators are on who enjoy watching members bait people they don't personally like.

Then when it gets reported, nothing happens.

True, you shouldn't fall for the baiting, but the response just makes it more obvious where the biases lay.

Originally posted by jakyll
There are members on here who's MO is deliberate derailment.They are seen throughout ATS doing the same thing again and again.If they have been warned by the moderators they obviously pay no attention whatsoever to this.

I hear you. I'm pretty sick of it.

I hate to bother the mods with a complaint and I don't want to get the reputation of being a "complainer", but I can't even have a decent discussion without it being interrupted with vile, off-topic crap.

It seems to be a few people. Perhaps I'll employ the ignore feature for a while. That's what I did last time and the person was eventually banned. Maybe we'll get lucky.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by magicmushroom
And "if" things go on behind the scenes how are we to know if you dont reply to us.

THAT is a valid complaint. We could do better at that.

magicmushroom

If it's any comfort (which I doubt) I wrote a thread complaining about the exact same thing many moons ago.

Springer and a couple of the supermods and mods were kind enough to take the time to investigate my complaint and address it.

I came away with a better understanding of the pressure the staff is under and a change in perception as to how the board is "governed" for want of a better word.

The change in perception led me to rethink a lot of the issues I had at the time, and look at then from a different perspective - I'm not going to share that, because yours might be different to mine.

Anyway, from then on (armed with my different perspective) I only complained when there was a blatant violation of the T&C - and especially when it was aimed at me.

Since my contretemps in the thread I wrote, I have stuck to this and ignored the trolls - except when it suited me not to for amusement purposes (my bad)

The thing is, if we as a community ignore them they will go away.

Sorry for rambling

LowLevelMason

My favorite part is when people try to bait you and go off topic, and you respond, certain moderators will remove your off topic response to the baiting but not the original baiting post. This does not usually happen, only when some of the more overtly biased moderators are on who enjoy watching members bait people they don't personally like.

Yeah,that sucks big time.And being super mods/mods,you would expect them to be above such behaviour.

Don't get me wrong,i know they have a tough job,but if you can't be impartial then you shouldn't be a mod.



Benevolent Heretic

I hate to bother the mods with a complaint and I don't want to get the reputation of being a "complainer", but I can't even have a decent discussion without it being interrupted with vile, off-topic crap.

Yeah,i don't like to do that either.And,as i said,you can ignore them but you can't make others do that so your thread can be taken over.Sometimes its hard to ignore when someone comes out with downright lies or the wrong information.I'll have to tell myself to stop saying,'well i can't let that BS slide.'

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Intrepid, let me give you some facts that are valid, the stock ansewr from mods is that you cannot watch everyone, then please explain how I can get punished in minutes of posting a reply yets others dont. When I have complained about members using abuisve, rascist etc. langauge I have not even had a reply from the mods.

That is not a difference of opion as you put it. The point is that some members get away with murder and others do not so that begs the questionis there favouritism for some mebers but not others. And further, many other members have stated the same yet still nothing is done, you either enforce the rules on all members or not at all.

And "if" things go on behind the scenes how are we to know if you dont reply to us. I could go now to any number of threads that are filled with hate and abuse for others yet the members do not get punished so whats your answer to that. The whole essense of ATS is to deny ignorance so why do you allow members to come here and peddle it and peddle it a plenty.

Like a question I posed, does ATS have a anti Muslim agenda, that thread got banned, why, why is it members can come here and be rascist and print hate and ignorance but you cannot print the N word, i'll tell you why its called double standards thats why.

You sound like you got a bone to pick with the mods on this one, maybe if you got a warning, point penelty etc, it was waranted (of course you would never admit it, since it is you, you cannot be wrong if your convinced your right). I have to say I have rarely seen what the Op complains about in any threads I post in. Most of the so called off topic, is actually related tot he subject. Such as the Georgia Russia war thread, people began to talk about Afghansitan and vietnam, it may seem off topic, but it was compareing the US and Russias war record and discussing how both armies have progressed over the years etc, leading back the Georgia.

Saf, no your wrong I dont have any problem sating that I make mistakes but the point is its just happened to me again when I am trying to get a member to stay on topic and he is deliberately trying to derail the thread. Why is it I get punished when it his he that is causing the problem. And yes I do have a problem with mods who take action against some but not others, I have proved that time and time agasin but no one gives a dam.

reply to post by magicmushroom


Wrong. I just checked into your complaint and there was 2 in thread mod notes for civility and the one you complained about had 3 posts removed. Your argument here is invalid.

Intrepid, it does not matter how many times you say it I'm not wrong, the point I was making that I was trying to get another member to stay on topic, I also suggetsted that if he wanted to discuss off topic points he could start a thread on it, eventually I asked him to stop posting and leave the thread because he was trying to derail it.

My argument holds that mods take action when it suits them and not in a fair and even way, if you dont' like that then thats unfortunate but I can prove it and thats the difference.

reply to post by magicmushroom


How bout this for a kick in the teeth.

I've lost a 1000 points for 1 post that was off topic.
The same amount of points docked from a member who had 4 posts removed for being off topic and 1 post removed for extreme violation.

Fair must be just a place full of rides for some mods.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
... I was trying to get another member to stay on topic, I also suggetsted that if he wanted to discuss off topic points he could start a thread on it, eventually I asked him to stop posting and leave the thread because he was trying to derail it.

Isn't it the mods' job to enforce the rules, not yours?
The more a person demands another "leave a thread" or "stay on topic," the more off-topic the whole thread becomes. It's a self-perpetuating cycle that you join right in to when you try to keep order.

Hit the ALERT button and move on. Let the mods handle it.

Anacryon, quite correct, but what happens when the mods don't handle it, we are constantly told the mods cannot check everything or be everywhere. I understand that and it is because of that, that certain members take the water knowing full well that they will get away with it unless you complain directly to the mods.

One tries to Police ones threads in the nicest possible way but some members here are hell bent on causing grief and are not here to communicate their views or take part in a debate. It is they who should be dealt with and not a member who is trying to keep things on tract.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Anacryon, quite correct, but what happens when the mods don't handle it, we are constantly told the mods cannot check everything or be everywhere.

Well, if I hit the ALERT button and nothing happens to the post I've ALERT-ed, then that leaves me, personally, thinking that one of two possibilities are in play:

1) My alert got overlooked/lost in the ether
2) I was wrong in thinking that the post was against T&C and it didn't warrant action

If the post is something I consider egregious and it isn't addressed, I'd shoot off a quick U2U to one of the mods, be all like "Hey dude, am I wrong in thinking that this post is messed up?"
I haven't had to do that, but based on my previous interactions with a good chunk of the staff, they'd get back to me at some point and either say "Nope, no problems here" or "Sorry, missed that one!"

Meanwhile, if a thread I'd been participating in has gone off the rails and into territory that does nothing but piss me off, I leave the thread so as not to make the problem any worse.

A wise man once said:
You've gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run.

Sorry running away is not in my make up, I take on bullies and those who seek to stifle the views of others, thats what ATS is all about, the bulk of us here are here for a number of reasons but some come just to spoil and cause trouble.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Sorry running away is not in my make up, I take on bullies and those who seek to stifle the views of others, thats what ATS is all about, the bulk of us here are here for a number of reasons but some come just to spoil and cause trouble.

Then keep in mind the more one tries to "police" a thread, the more one drives said thread even further off topic and into hostile territory.

I have had some threads that have gotten nearly totally derailed by someone just belittling me or my posts, many time being accompanied by a laughing "smiley." I don't remember these guys ever getting into trouble. Maybe these guys got U2U'ed, I just don't remember them getting into trouble? They did it over and over. Maybe I just needed to tell the mods?

These guys would rip and tear at you until the whole thread was practically lost. You could not carry on a conversation. It's like how CNN tears apart their guests sometimes.

I had a thread about ancient technology, airplanes, and stuff of this sort, ripped all apart.
It's like some guys are being paid to do this or something. You would tend to guess that there was "something to hide" because these guys worked like beavers cutting away at my thread.

Troy

I think the mods here are far better at dealing with this than at any of the other forums I’ve frequented. I honestly don’t notice any lack of concern on their part, I notice them dealing with thread “derail-ers” constantly.

[edit on 8-11-2008 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

I'm one of the Mods who pinged 'magicmushroom' with a Warn for a reply.

I did so because that reply was 'alerted' via a Complaint. I did not see any 'alerts' - when I was online anyway - in regards to the other previous replies in question.

It wasn't until magicmushroom u2ued me directly and pointed out the prior pages in the particular thread that I reviewed and found a number of baiting replies from one particular Member (whom I subsequently Warned a number of times).

We can't be in all places at all times. And sometimes - though we'd like to be able to read through an entire thread and gain a more indepth context of it - we do not have the time allowance to do so. However the alerted reply (be it in response to baiting or whatever) is what we initially see when we review the Complaint. IF it looks actionable, then we tend to action.

To me there are some lessons here:

- Don't bite the bait. Yes it can be frustrating and even infuriating when someone starts tweeking your nose in replies. Been there, done that, bit back. All it does is make you both look messy at the end of the day

- Alert it. Bear in mind that what you feel to be baiting/insults etc may not be reviewed as such. I'm in no way going to garauntee I/Staff will see it your way 100% of the time...but we can't see it to begin with if we're not there or pointed there. So Alert it.

- If you get no joy via the Alert, then hey, Alert again!
You never know...it may have slipped past us. Who knows.
Or alternatively - at the base of each forum are a list of Mods specifically designated to that Forum...u2u one of them directly and request a follow up on the Alert. SuperMods such as myself also go across the board, so any one of us SuperMods can be approached via u2u as well in regards to any Alerts etc. Our names are in the Staff List on the lefthand side of the Main Forum Page...click on our name to send a u2u.

Again - yes we Staff foul up occasionally. Mea Culpa. But I'd like to think we try our best...that won't garauntee 100% success rate 100% of the time...but again we can but try...and that goes for all of us, be we Mod or Member.


Cheers.