32 people killed every single day

That is not at all an alarming statistic. Welcome to Chicago, murder capical of the United States of America.
(news.bbc.co.uk...)

This summer, being in Chicago was statistically more dangerous than being in Iraq (www.learnaboutguns.com... -than-iraq/). Sure, most of these are gang-on-gang shootings which rarely spill into "good" neighborhoods, but still. When I was still a student and living in the Ukranian Village neighborhood of Chicago, a gunfight occurred not more than 15 feet from where I was standing. How could this be? Aren't handguns illegal in Chicago? Yes, but only illegal for law-abiding citizens. The bad guys follow no such laws. Should the bad guys have an advantage? Heck no. To state otherwise would be madness.

Chicago has the most restrictive gun laws in the United States. The good guys in Chicago are not allowed to defend themselves with like firepower. These laws even go so far as to contradict the Constitution of the United States of America; handguns are illegal within city limits.

Don't worry about guns. Worry about the people who have them. Guns, in the hands of the right people, actually augment/improve the peace. Plus, guns are the one tool that allowed this country to break free from tyranny and become the great nation we all know it is.

When I was about 6 years old, my Father taught me to respect guns. He taught me that they can kill, he taught me how to take them apart, put them back together again, and finally how to hit bullseye from 100 yards. My parents taught me

right from wrong. I would never dream of hurting anyone....unless my life or the life of a loved-one were threatened. In that situation, I could kill without hesitation. I would then reload.

I found an another interesting line of thinking. Consider this:

The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.
Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year is 120,000.
Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.
(Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of Health & Human Services)

The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000 (yes, that's 80 million.)
The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500.
The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .000188.
(Statistics courtesy of FBI.gov)

So, statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun. Not everyone has a gun, but almost everyone has at least one doctor.



Granfalloon

Originally posted by calihan123
im talking about a situation we could actually change.

cancer we cant. vehicles we cant. but guns we can.

No, we can't. If all the guns and gun manufacturers magically disappeared from the face of the Earth, people would start to build home-made guns. We're talking about technology that has been mastered by the human species; it cannot be "un-learned." We would start to fabricate fully-functional firearms in our basements, garages, etc.

We all want to live in peace, but there will always be criminals. Be prepared and teach your kids to also be prepared.

Granfalloon

[edit on 7-11-2008 by Granfalloon]

reply to post by Granfalloon

Not everyone has a gun, but almost everyone has at least one doctor.

Then I guess I'm the exception. I have quite a few guns, but no doctor. Now I feel really safe!

Great post!

TheRedneck

Originally posted by calihan123
im talking about a situation we could actually change.

cancer we cant. vehicles we cant. but guns we can.

before continuing after reading this post i realized i must post this link


www.thenhf.com...


i actually found it from right here on ats

cancer
car accidents
etc

we can do something about all of that, we just dont focus on the things properly


but guns

we'll always need guns

the minute our government takes away our guns, we have had our government taken away from us



there will always be weapons and the bad guys will always have them

all you do when you have stricter gun control laws is take away the guns from the good and make it impossible for the good to defend themselves from the bad


the only way to get rid of gun death and crime is to rid the world of all of them, destroy every gun there is


does anyone see that happening?

didnt think so

guns should never have been created in the first place.

thats my point of view.

they were built for the sole purpose to kill and thats why i dont like them.

almost every other thing that could possibly kill you, was also made for other reason.. but a gun? no. just to kill

reply to post by calihan123

That's a nice sentiment, but hardly realistic. It reminds me of a challenge someone (can't remember exactly who) on a talk radio show made... a challenge concerning the Iraqi War. The challenge was this: you are the President of the USA, and you have a Congress that will obey you. What do you do to end the war and still fight any terrorism threats on mainland soil?

No one could (or would) answer. All he got was hysteria about 'we shouldn't have done this' or 'we should have done that'. No one gave an explanation of what they would do at the present time in the present situation.

Such is your argument. Unless you have discovered a way to change the past (in which case why aren't you starting a thread on that? ), your point is moot. It cannot be changed. Energy and thought is much better spent on trying to solve our present problems than in bemoaning things we cannot change.

You're crying over spilled milk.

TheRedneck

wow only 32, that isnt that many really i expected that many dead in LA every hour

reply to post by calihan123

they dont matter,not to me anyways. i have my own problems i got to deal with why do i care what people in the ghetto are doing. sure im sad that theres people killing people but to be honest its none of my business what they do each other.

reply to post by calihan123


Its the human mind you should be talking about then. Its what the human mind does with the enviroment around it and how it manipulates it for good and ill. Your enemy is the human mind, not guns. A gun, designed to kill, will not hurt anyone if left untouched on a table. The human mind is a pandora's box of evil inventions, take away guns and the evil minds of the world will eventually come up with another, effective way to get you. Its great to wish good on everyone and want everyone to live a long healthy life, but in the end it is a fool's dream because you can not stop the human mind and its corrupt intentions.

reply to post by calihan123


Per capita it's lower in Canada but if you look at Toronto they are still shooting each other.

It's with illegal guns. They'd use butter knives if they had to. Whatever it takes.

Everyone should have guns that would reduce crime.

Canada's gun laws are oppressive and wrong.

reply to post by pieman


We live in a free country.

I should be able to own an Abrams tank if I want to.

It's when weapons are used as part of a crime that the laws need to be stricter.

We need the law to have some teeth and let the law abiding people who are responsible be free.

Over 11 or 12 million die each year to violence and famine.

Which of 6 million are children.

And yet we are amazed at the holocaust, the number of people hitler killed. Although it's not as cruel I find it odd how people can't imagine that statistic, when it in fact happens every year.

Typical American selfishness, "36 people" yeah let's think of "US"
Maybe we should just care about ourselves AND everyone, because if we all did it wouldn't be so and it would get straight to the problem. Instead of us then them and over and over in idiotic cycle.

-peace-love-

Originally posted by calihan123
Heres what I dont get. Why do people always think about the possibilities of other countries nuking us, or our own government killing us, or some sort of genocide, and not about the fact that on average, every single day in america 32 people are killed in gun violence. 32 people a day. And we are so concerned with everything BUT what is happening in our own cities. Our own neighboorhoods.

Maybe we should worry a little more about cleaning up the crime in our country before we start thinking about some outrageous nuclear war claims.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by calihan123]

[edit on 5-11-2008 by calihan123]

If your hollering for gun control, then you might want to consider
what has happened in other countries with gun bans.

The crooks have guns, and the population does not, and then
home invasions went up the UK.

The stats are all there.

The majority of ppl killed everyday in gun violence is drug related,
or gang related.

Ppl have been killed with steak knives, baseball bats, poison,
strangulation, and drowning.

There are other ways to kill, but those are most of the common ways.

The unlisted killers are the toxins and additives that are going
into our food that are killing some of our most experienced citizens
at an early age.

The article on here in regards bottled water is one.

The toxins like melamine also mentioned here on ATS.

There are probably some we have not figured out yet as well.

Originally posted by calihan123
guns should never have been created in the first place.

thats my point of view.

they were built for the sole purpose to kill and thats why i dont like them.

almost every other thing that could possibly kill you, was also made for other reason.. but a gun? no. just to kill

Wow, a hard core anti-gun liberal on ATS.

Guns have also been used to hunt food before the days of the
super market, and they have been used for self defense.

Before guns existed manking killed each other with swords,
spears and arrows.

Removing guns from the equation isn't going to stop the killing
and if you can't see that then you are naive.

With a crossbow I can kill damn near anything with one shot.

Man is and has been a violent beast for 100's of thousands of years.

The problem is mankind, not some inanimate object.

You cannot ban everything that can be used as a weapon.

Originally posted by Ex_MislTech

With a crossbow I can kill damn near anything with one shot.

It's worth mentioning not just for the anti-gun paranoids but also for my own amusement that a bolt from a crossbow or an arrow from a bow are much more capable of blowing through the typical police bullet-"proof" vest than any handgun round and if your concerns are "armor-piercing" then for consistency's sake you should be pushing to ban all bolts, arrow and centerfire rifle ammunition as well as pointy sticks. But then consistency, logic and reason have never been tools of the anti-gun crowd. Just in case any nut out there was getting ready to pull the mythical "armor-piercing" ammo crap that plagues sense and reason like cancer with AIDS in the 80's and 90's.

I cant forget when the NRA told told me how wonderful it is that they supported banning "armor-piercing" ammo. Either they assumed I was a moron when writing back to me or they themselves arent very bright. I almost puked all over myself reading that letter. The NRA can suck my @ss and keep what it gets.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


I have been an NRA life member since 1972. I have become disillusioned myself with the PC that seems to be rampant. JPFO or GOA seems to have a more direct command for what actualy is the problem. That said. back to the thread:

This is beginning to look more of a thread for points than any real dialog with the OP. They wait till several point out her flaws in logic, then proceeds to state another inane point she already made ten posts ago. Further posts to acertain if they actualy have an argument other than utopian phylosophy are nill. Just pointing out facts here folks, Just an opinion!!! I use 'they' because I'm not sure (even with the avatar) if they are male or female!

Zindo

Originally posted by calihan123
guns should never have been created in the first place.

thats my point of view.

they were built for the sole purpose to kill and thats why i dont like them.

almost every other thing that could possibly kill you, was also made for other reason.. but a gun? no. just to kill

There are MANY instruments of death that have been used for thousands of years before guns even were fathomed. You seem to be so anti-gun that you are blinded by your own hatred towards them. So if we ban guns, and everyone starts being killed by arrows, what then? What about slingshots? How about an Atlatl? Woomera? Then we have poisoned darts from blowguns, throwing axes, daggers, and the list goes on. These are all items DESIGNED TO KILL. Your argument doesnt hold much ground when there is so many tools made for the sole purpose of killing. And guess what happens if you removed every one of them? People would STILL be killed. By using specific pressure points, the human hands become deadly weapons - uh oh, better ban them too.

Please take a step back and realize your ignorance. The criminals will ALWAYS have guns. By making guns illegal for everyone, you are only taking away the ability for innocent victims to defend themselves.

If I was a criminal and I knew every house I broke into was NOT armed with a gun, you're damn right I would have a gun in my hand and it would be like taking candy from a baby.

i read the obituaries one day to see the listing for someone i knew who had passed on. i noticed something disturbing. almost all deaths below the age of 40 were MOTORCYCLE related. i thought, that's odd. so i checked it again the next week to see if it was a fluke. nope. same thing. motorcycle accidents. but to make sure it wasn't some seasonal or local phenomenon, i checked later, in a different state and 2 different seasons. same thing. MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENTS.

moral of the story: get a moped if you must bike, and stay off the road! you have no protection and the car/semi/pickup will win any head on collosion, any side swipe, and any fender bender!

[edit on 9-11-2008 by undo]

reply to post by calihan123


Just as with drugs: people who really want guns, criminals, will get them regardless of the legality of it.

How many of those gun murders, everyday, were commited by people who had legal right to carry the gun.

Making guns illegal is like using chewing gum to stop the Hoover Dam from failing. We, are the problem. Not guns. Not drugs. Not T.V. Not the news. Us.