Rape victim, 13, stoned to death in Somalia

To me this is just another party that uses Religion as an excuse to have it their way. Religion needs to be put up against a wall and stoned to death.

reply to post by AshleyD


I agree!

Originally posted by Solarskye
To me this is just another party that uses Religion as an excuse to have it their way. Religion needs to be put up against a wall and stoned to death.

Enough with the stoning, next you'll be wanting to burn at the stake.

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
Perhaps it was the most humane thing to do. Perhaps the head warlord looked at her and thought "this is only the start, she's going to have to endure this her whole life because she's trapped in this hell-hole" and decided the only decent thing to do was this.

Not that I think it was right. I just like to think people have other's best interests at heart.

? okk, so a little girl is raped, and instead of love and compassion she is
"stoned to death" and you say they did this because it was the best thing for her? Jeesh, if that is true why did they not just give her a nice little pill to gently send her on her way? Instead of the torture that stoning is?

No, the "decent" thing would have been to find the rapist and then stone them to death. Then take the little girl to a loving, caring, compassionate facility that could take care of her emotional and physical needs.

reply to post by _Volt_


Hi Volt There is a thread that details shariah law existing in Britain here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Of course it may not be as bloodthirsty and sociopathic as shariah law operated and ran in other countries but I think it should be regulated and overseen by the local authorities to ensure no sexist,mysogynist judgements and punishments occur.
Cheers Karl

reply to post by sos37


Hi sos37,its interesting to hear your opinions.
I´ve heard the ´new convenant´ reasoning before but to me it does not make the homicidal instruction of the OT (particularly deuteronomy and leviticus) any less palatable,justified or forgivable.
Also,when looked at objectively,other people´s claims of ´mistranslation´ or ´comments taken out of context´ seem not to ring true.
Theres an interesting thread here which documents homicidal bible quotes:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Cheers Karl

Originally posted by drwizardphd
reply to post by karl 12

 

This sort of nonsense has nothing to do with Islam in particular, remember that Christians were doing this same exact thing to innocent young girls two centuries ago here in America (Witches, anyone?).

Dr Wizard-thanks for the reply,I think the specific organised religious institution involved has to bear some (if not all) of the blame because these actions are a direct consequence of (and directly attributal to) the extremeist wahhabi islamic interpretation of abrahamic lore.
Whilst its fair to say that each individual iman interprets ´islamic law´ differently in each shariah court;there does exists an extremist wahhabi mindset which often acts as a catalyst for these heinous acts like stoning,scalding,amputations etc...
Its all based on mysogynistic insecurity but goes unchallenged by the rest of the world so is destined to continue.
There are some quite sickening images in this report including stonings and scalding of women but it quite comprehensively details the inherent sexist,bigoted,sociopathic attitudes of many islamic imans and acolytes:
www.dhushara.com...
Cheers Karl

Thank you OP for posting this sad article.

Where I come from in Europe, this kind of story does not even make it
to the big & mainstream medias. Shame on them.

I am so mad that I won't tell you what is on my mind but it is not nice, trust me...

Cheers,
Europa aka Buck

Originally posted by LoneWeasel
But the extension of your point is that if Islam did not exist Somalia would not be as it is.

it is not a logical extension, but rather a fact, it would be patently different without the Islamic influence

The logical extension of all "religion is the inspiration for evil" ideas is that were religion removed from the face of the earth, people would stop killing one another, some countries would not be poorer than others, and all crimes against humanity would cease. Which is nonsense.

which is good, because I have never said "religion is the inspiration for evil"- this is patently nonsense

It's not religion that's killing people, it's PEOPLE that are killing people. Religion's an excuse, and as long as we blame this frankly abstract term for all the worlds ills, we are failing to do anything about the real problems that cause suffering.
LW

People are killing people, absoloutely, and I am a big one for individual responsibility, we are responsible for choosing the paths we take- I cannot deny that movements, religion etc can influence people, and this certainly seems to be the case with Islam in terms of extremism- I see no contradiction with holding the invidivudal accountable while acknowledging the wider societal influence of other factors

Originally posted by nixie_nox
We absolutely should be in Somalia, the Congo, and other war torn places where atrocities like this go on everyday.
There is no excuse. And I agree with you that it is really about oil, because these countries are far worse then Iraq ever was.

exactly!

why didnt bush ever invade any of these dispicable african countries

Originally posted by enlighten2012

exactly!

why didnt bush ever invade any of these dispicable african countries

Look, Im no supporter of action in Afganistan and Iraq, I think they are not places where "democracy" as we know it, will be established, particularly Afghanistan, however, are you saying you support invading every country where there is a conflict?

Yes, I can picture it, largely white US troops killing Africans in Congo, that is really gonna work

Originally posted by blueorder
it is not a logical extension, but rather a fact, it would be patently different without the Islamic influence

I accept your point. I just think that colonialism, the Ogaden War, the Somalian Civil War, invasion by Ethiopia, desperate famine, massive poverty and health problems, tribal conflicts and an out of control arms trade have a more direct influence.

As I said, using Islam to explain it is disingenuous. It may be the oft-repeated excuse, but that excuse holds no water because there is nothing more inherently violent about Islam than there is Christianity. Religion is used to excuse (inappropriately). It is not the cause.

LW

Originally posted by LoneWeasel
As I said, using Islam to explain it is disingenuous. It may be the oft-repeated excuse, but that excuse holds no water because there is nothing more inherently violent about Islam than there is Christianity. Religion is used to excuse (inappropriately). It is not the cause.

LW

Religion is not the only factor, however, in Somalia's case it is a major factor, hence religion being a reason given by those thousand plus people in the stadium. Now you will not find a stadium with a thousand christians in it requesting a stoning based on someone's interpretation of the bible, certainly not without a time machine.

Basically I see it is a combination of man and the teachings- they go hand in hand, but don't get me wrong, ultimately the individual is responsible for who and what he follows

Originally posted by blueorder
Now you will not find a stadium with a thousand christians in it requesting a stoning based on someone's interpretation of the bible, certainly not without a time machine.

But isn't that the fundamental point? Because the implication of what you say is that it's Islam itself is the cause of these people living an existence that appears to be backward in time. That's not the cause and effect here. There was a time when Moorish, Islamic peoples were the most scientifically advanced in the world. Islam was the religion not of the underdeveloped, but of the leading societies in the world. Christianity has its origins in exceptionally repressed, marginalised social groups. At a time the most developed society on the planet believed in Roman Gods.

The Bible hasn't changed. Society's interpretation of the Bible has changed. The Koran won't change either, but it's got to be our hope that Somalian interpretation of it does. But whether it does or not - Islam itself is not the cause of the problem. The society that interprets it is the cause of the problem. And the reason that society is underdeveloped is nothing to do with religion. It's to do with the history of the country in question.

LW

reply to post by AshleyD


In Islamic Sharia law a woman cannot testify against a man unless her testimony is verified by two male witnesses, or one male and two female. Most likely there were no witnesses, at least none willing to come forward. I'm thinking that explains why the rapists were never pursued, found, or punished.

reply to post by TrekFan


Oh, that is a good point. I hadn't thought of that. You're probably onto something. Still seems pretty crazy, though. She didn't 'fornicate' with herself.

And just to make sure: Please don't anyone get me wrong. I am totally 110% against what happened to this girl. I'm just saying if this is truly done to retain some sort of sexual purity for religious reasons, then the men would get the stoning as well.

The one thing people do not realize is that in these third world counties they do not have the luxery of television and such like we do. If you looked into witch persecutions in the middle ages you would find that it was for entertainment purposes with religion as a cover. Look at the slasher flicks that are so popular today. How many ways have people been tortured and killed on screen. Could you imagine if we did not have the access to movies? Bored mobs would look for different excuses to kill people for sport in a stadium.
The other reason why we read about incidents like this in third world countries is becouse they have never read the Quran. It is like the Christain wacko's who have their own interpatation of the Bible. Their followers will not read on their own for fear that they might come across something that counters what their leader preaches.
To judge all of Islam on incedents like this is like judging Christianity on what Warren Jeffs preaches and practices.

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by TrekFan

 

And just to make sure: Please don't anyone get me wrong. I am totally 110% against what happened to this girl. I'm just saying if this is truly done to retain some sort of sexual purity for religious reasons, then the men would get the stoning as well.

It is done for religious reasons, but it's a misconception that it has anything to do with sexual purity.

Where it comes from is somewhat convoluted and like drawing upon morality and righteousness from the bible, is very much open to interpretation. In the ritual re-enactment of Abraham's pilgrimage to Mecca, one of the acts includes the "stoning of the devil" where Muslims cast stones at three stone pillars representing the devil's incarnations and illusions put to Abraham. It symbolizes the casting out of evil spirits, denying the temptations of the devil and cleansing of the individual.

This then ties into why women wear veils. It's believed the female body, citing the face mainly, is the source of moral/social corruption (implied that it turns good men immoral and sexually deviant against their will). You take that and view it as metaphorically equivalent to the story of Abraham defeating the devil's temptations and casting out the devil's habitation through stoning.

Although there are many ways the burqa is interpreted as part of Islamic society, differing most in the more modern parts of the middle east where it's seen as a sort of rejection of western ideals; generally this is how fundamentalist believers justify stoning women. In their minds, they're saving them from the devil and purifying their soul...

This is how I understand it anyway.

[edit on 11/5/2008 by ZombieOctopus]

reply to post by ZombieOctopus


Yes, I'm aware of all that. Thank you. When I say it really has nothing to do with religion, the point I am trying to make is this:

Let's use the analogy of a fake evangelical preacher. You know, one of those 'put your money in the bowl for Jesus' types. Now, are his actions really about Jesus or for Jesus? Of course not. He is using Christianity but what he is doing really has nothing to do with the religion, the Christian faith, nor is it honoring God.

Now in this thread's instance, in my own humble opinion, it also has nothing to do with the religion at the core. If it did, the men would be stoned, too. But they weren't even arrested. Therefore, I see it as religion being used but it really isn't for religion or for 'Allah.' It's just a way to abuse the people while doing it in the guise of religion.

My $0.02.

Believe in the Almighty God who perceives all things, judgment shall come to the wicked and corrupt, none shall be spared.