The Enemy Within:US Female Soldiers Raped.

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by IAF101
If the girls want to enter to boys locker room, they shouldn't expect to leave unscathed. War has always been the preserve of men.

This is exactly the type of insensitive, chauvinistic comment that gives rapists the idea that what they are doing is ok.

Rape in the military is not like rape in the civilian world. So stop preaching.

Soldiers are under extreme pressures in a very demanding environment that requires them to be away from their wives, girlfriends or lovers. A moments indiscretion is not the same as some crazy sicko on a power trip in the civilian world.

War and rapine have always gone hand in hand through out human history. When you force a man to go out and kill day in and day out, you make him regress to his baser instincts. You just cant expect him to flip a switch in his brain on and off between killer and gentleman.

It is not chauvinistic nor is it insensitive. You poor attempts at generalizing everything into some crime and expect these men to always to behave like how you want them to is what is insensitive and chauvinistic.

calling rapists as mentally insane, psychopaths, monsters etc. is actually counterproductive.

Most aren't insane or anything, no doubt some are, but most are ordinary men electively doing what they want - iow being evil.

reply to post by poet1b


And you will continue to ignore the issue of the OP.Women being attacked in Iraq by their own side.Is there some reason you keep avoiding it?

Female Iraq soldier brutally killed/raped by US soldiers.
Three years ago, on July 19, 2005, Army Private First Class LaVena Johnson was found dead in Balad,Iraq.Her body was found in a tent belonging to the private military contractor KBR.She had abrasions all over her body,a broken nose, a black eye,burned hands,loose teeth,acid burns on her genitals, and a bullet hole in her head.The Army labeled Johnson's death a suicide.

uk.youtube.com...


And have you done this yet?

Find in my posts where i have claimed that all US soldiers are like this.
Copy and past 'em and give the page numbers.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by IAF101

A moments indiscretion is not the same as some crazy sicko on a power trip in the civilian world.

You describe rape in the military as a moments indiscretion? How messed up is that! Consensual sex is a moments indiscretion,not rape.Not in the military,not in society.

The pressures of war cannot be used as an excuse by everybody.There are sadistic feckers already that way inclined,and it is usually they who influence the actions of those poor souls who are losing there their grip on reality or have lost it all together.

You just cant expect him to flip a switch in his brain on and off between killer and gentleman.

Yet millions of soldiers around the world do just that.They keep control in violent and insane situations.



[edit on 6-11-2008 by jakyll]

Originally posted by IAF101
Rape in the military is not like rape in the civilian world. So stop preaching.

Wasn't aware that calling you on a chauvinistic comment was preaching.

Soldiers are under extreme pressures in a very demanding environment that requires them to be away from their wives, girlfriends or lovers. A moments indiscretion is not the same as some crazy sicko on a power trip in the civilian world.

A moments indiscretion? Really? You call rape a moments indiscretion? You can't be serious. Anyone who will force someone else into a sexual act, yes I mean rape, is a crazy sicko who needs a head check. A momentary indiscretion would be kissing a consenting adult when you are married to someone else. Forcing yourself upon someone just because you are strong enough to do it is not a momentary indiscretion. But please continue giving rapists excuses.

War and rapine have always gone hand in hand through out human history. When you force a man to go out and kill day in and day out, you make him regress to his baser instincts. You just cant expect him to flip a switch in his brain on and off between killer and gentleman.

Yet hundreds of thousands of men do it every day. Hundreds of thousands of men who are over-seas right now, and those who have been there and came back home, have made it through an entire tour or two or three and not raped anyone. Talk about broad sweeping generalizations.

It is not chauvinistic nor is it insensitive. You poor attempts at generalizing everything into some crime and expect these men to always to behave like how you want them to is what is insensitive and chauvinistic.

Providing excuses for rapists is not insensitive? Perhaps you would like to ask someone who has been raped if that is insensitive. Of course I am probably asking too much of you there.

Where did I generalize anything into a crime that is not, in fact, a crime? Rape is a crime. It is about the worst thing you can do to someone, whether you are in the military or not. Now where in that did I generalize something into a crime that isn't one? Please explain.

So expecting men to behave like human beings is insensitive and chauvinistic but providing excuses for rapists is not? Really?

reply to post by Sonya610


Not just that, but soldiers have issued weapons that they are REQUIRED to keep with them! It is obviously sad that it happens but it happens everywhere....that doesn't make covering it up wrong either.....but they have "battle buddies", weapons, even peeing in a cup like previously suggested....lots of options...sad that it happens, yes.....maybe a bit blown out of proportion.....yes.....but people are who they are, war or not and sadly the population that joins the military is the same population that we deal with everyday in the U.S. surely these women understand that when enlisting......they have the same chance of getting raped here as they do there......just because they are in a different situation doesn't make a difference.....could just as easily be a target of rape while walking in a parking lot to vehicle after shopping, etc. So, I do have sympathy but still think people are making a bigger deal of this than should......by the way, I do have military ties, my spouse is deployed and I have many friends...both male and female that are currently deployed as well

Wow, lot's of entrenched positions here...

Unfortunately, most don't seem to 'get' that rape is not the domain of a subclass of men that can be easily detected and rejected from service. There is no 'class' of men that rape.

Many experiments have been done on the particulars of human psychology, in particular how people behave and how/if they remain true to their values and beliefs in groups, defering to authority and handle absolute authority themselves.

Quite simply, all men are capable of rape, they can all be placed on a sliding scale defined by how they handle group-pressure(Solomon Asch experiment), defering to authority(Milgram experiment) and how they wield authority(Stanford Prison Experiment). Very likely to rape at the bottom and very unlikely to rape at the top.

Some can likely be said to be so high on the scale that for all intents and purposes they would never rape, but the vast majority of men can be placed well down the scale.

The issue of women in the armed forces is really very simple. If women are to serve in the military, the military must produce conditions which encourage it's male members to move up the scale, and discourage it's male members from moving down the scale.

Rape IS about power. Rapists usually don't get a hard on when they contemplate the actual sex, but when they contemplate stalking, seizing and subduing their victim. What is more, many men find that very arousing.

Is rape preventable? yes, there is actually some evidence that suggests that the less segregated men and women are, the less rapes occur. However, that evidence is mainly based on perceived number of rapes per capita, rather than official statistics, as statistics are sometimes not accurate.

Example. Saudiarabia Is listed as having lower rapes per capita than greece
www.nationmaster.com...

However, anyone who has lived there will tell you that rape is ripe(excuse the pun) in saudi arabia, it's just that no woman will dare to report it as she will be stoned to death. Most rape victims in Saudi arabia are foreign immigrants, usually married women or divorced mothers from countries like the philipines. Adultery or a nonbeliever having sex with a muslim means automatic death, and the list of foreign workers being stoned to death for being raped is long.




[edit on 6-11-2008 by aaa2500]

Originally posted by aaa2500
However, anyone who has lived there will tell you that rape is ripe(excuse the pun) in saudi arabia, it's just that no woman will dare to report it as she will be stoned to death. Most rape victims in Saudi arabia are foreign immigrants, usually married women or divorced mothers from countries like the philipines. Adultery or a nonbeliever having sex with a muslim means automatic death, and the list of foreign workers being stoned to death for being raped is long.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by aaa2500]

Yet the US Military are the bad guys because we have a percentage of people who rape people. Some of these people need to go back to school.

Gotta love that stoned to death thing..... I sometimes forget that we're living in the 21st century doesn't apply to Muslim countries these days.

reply to post by jakyll


Found in the tent of a private military contractor, which could mean anyone from anywhere.

Your opening lines attack all U.S. military personnel, without discriminaton.

This type of behaviour shows that if these men have such little respect for their fellow soldiers,then the Iraqi 'enemy' stands little chance of being treated with restraint.

Its also bodes ill for the future.America will not be remembered in most of the world for all the good it has done.Instead,when the US is mentioned many people will think of things like this and they will shake their head in disgust.

You make this judgement that the acts of few in a combat zone are enough to condemn all of America. You not only blame all U.S. soldiers, but all of America for that acts of a few.

Like I said, your stance is cartoonishly ridiculous.

reply to post by poet1b


Read what i said very carefully.

This type of behaviour shows that if these men have such little respect for their fellow soldiers,then the Iraqi 'enemy' stands little chance of being treated with restraint.

Do you see it? Obviously not.

"these men" Not all men not all US soldiers. Simply 'these men.' The men who have committed these crimes.Not the whole of the US armed forces.

You not only blame all U.S. soldiers, but all of America for that acts of a few.

Little hope of this,but heres goes.
Find the post where i said this.Not where you think i implied it but where i actually said it.

Copy it and past it and give the page number.


You have yet to quote where i said 'all soldiers' (like you accused me of) so it'll be fun for you trying to find where i said all soldiers,and now all Americans too.Now run along like a good boy and find the evidence to back up your accusations.And try not to quote the same lines that you did.Y'know the one where i say America won't be remembered for the good it has done,it makes your 'jakyll hates all Americans' appear very foolish indeed,as no one who hates America would say such a thing.




[edit on 6-11-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by aaa2500


A star for you.

The issue of women in the armed forces is really very simple. If women are to serve in the military, the military must produce conditions which encourage it's male members to move up the scale, and discourage it's male members from moving down the scale.

I think in a way the military has to become sexless.There is no male no female.Just soldiers.The same for race.No blacks,no whites,no redskins.Just soldiers.

Soldiers who fight against a common enemy and not each other.Soldiers who protect each other no matter what....(takes off rose tinted glasses)

reply to post by jakyll


Baloney, your statements in fact attack all U.S. military personnel, by claiming that history will look down on the U.S. military for these incidents.

Your first quote:

This type of behaviour shows that if these men have such little respect for their fellow soldiers,then the Iraqi 'enemy' stands little chance of being treated with restraint.

Who are you talking about, "these men"? Do you mean rapists? If so, then your next statement makes no sense. Of course the Iraqi enemy stands little chance with criminals who are willing to commit rape.

The thing is, you tell who these men are in your next statement.

Its also bodes ill for the future.America will not be remembered in most of the world for all the good it has done.Instead,when the US is mentioned many people will think of things like this and they will shake their head in disgust.

In this second statement, you clearly claim that America, all of America, should bear the burden of guilt for the actions of the small number of rapists in the military, as if the U.S. military is the only military in the world which commits rapes

reply to post by poet1b

Who are you talking about, "these men"? Do you mean rapists? If so, then your next statement makes no sense. Of course the Iraqi enemy stands little chance with criminals who are willing to commit rape.

I believe i answered this in my previous post.

"these men" Not all men not all US soldiers. Simply 'these men.' The men who have committed these crimes.Not the whole of the US armed forces.

In this second statement, you clearly claim that America, all of America, should bear the burden of guilt for the actions of the small number of rapists in the military, as if the U.S. military is the only military in the world which commits rapes

Where in the below statement does it say,"America, all of America, should bear the burden of guilt for the actions of the small number of rapists in the military."Hmmm?? Another false accusation methinks.

Its also bodes ill for the future.America will not be remembered in most of the world for all the good it has done.Instead,when the US is mentioned many people will think of things like this and they will shake their head in disgust.

It is sadly a statement of fact that many people will think of such things when America is mentioned.Just as many Chinese people think of the Rape of Nanking at the mention of the Japanese.Just as many Americans think of 9/11 at the mention of Islam.Just as many Jews will think of the Nazi's at the mention of Germany.There is no picking on individuals,its an 'accuse everyone' mentality.Its as natural as it is irrational.


Oh,and i'm still waiting.

You have yet to quote where i said 'all soldiers' (like you accused me of) so it'll be fun for you trying to find where i said all soldiers,and now all Americans too.Now run along like a good boy and find the evidence to back up your accusations.And try not to quote the same lines that you did.Y'know the one where i say America won't be remembered for the good it has done,it makes your 'jakyll hates all Americans' appear very foolish indeed,as no one who hates America would say such a thing.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by jakyll


OMG, are you comparing a small number of rapists in Iraq to The Rape of Nanking and The Holocaust?

It is sadly a statement of fact that many people will think of such things when America is mentioned.Just as many Chinese people think of the Rape of Nanking at the mention of the Japanese.Just as many Americans think of 9/11 at the mention of Islam.Just as many Jews will think of the Nazi's at the mention of Germany.

WOW! Let me see if I got this right, because a few U.S. soldiers have committed rape, the U.S. military is now comparable to Nanking and the Holocaust?

Are you that messed up to think your topic is in anyway on the level of these two horrific historical incidents?

You have proved my point in ways that I never imagined. I couldn't think of any way you could have proven how biased you are than by making such an absurd statement.

In a highly stressful(stress increases dominant male's sexual activity), testosterone-fueled violent male environment should we be surprised to see rape of women? No. It should be expected as an unfortunate side effect of the desired function of a group of aggressive, ready-to-kill alpha males because of the link between high levels of testosterone and both aggression and sex drive.

If we wanted to make sure that our soldiers didn't rape women we could put them on a strict vegan, high soy diet, have them hold tea parties, and train them to get in touch with their feelings. I bet that would prevent a lot of women being raped. The unfortunate side effect of that would be a cowardly military that doesn't have the will to kill.


I'm sorry for all the women who get raped but what do you really expect from men who are trained to have high enough testosterone levels to be aggressive killers? A man who can be your cuddly teddy bear and share his feelings with you? If a woman puts herself in an environment where she is likely to be raped then she must share some responsibility with the men who raped her just by virtue of willingly putting herself into a harmful situation.

[edit on 7-11-2008 by Epinephrine]

reply to post by poet1b


From my OP.

Its also bodes ill for the future.America will not be remembered in most of the world for all the good it has done.Instead,when the US is mentioned many people will think of things like this and they will shake their head in disgust.

'Things like this.' Not just this crime,but things like this.Which clearly implies other crimes as well.Crimes of some US soldiers raping and torturing prisoners,some US soldiers bombing and killing innocent people,some US soldiers raping and killing non Iraqi prisoners etc etc etc.

OMG, are you comparing a small number of rapists in Iraq to The Rape of Nanking and The Holocaust?

Dude your debate style is wank.You spend all your time discussing what you think has been said instead of discussing to what has actually been said.

If you take my first statement,the actions listed can be called The Atrocities of Iraq.Some people will think of US soldiers raping and killing their own side,they will think of those Iraqis who suffered in places such as the Abu Ghraib Prison,they will think of all the innocent Iraqis killed for no reason that it pleased a handful of sadistic bastards,they will think of the Iraqi women and children who have been raped.They will not think of those soldiers who kept control,helped people,protected people etc etc.


If you want i can provide you with links that list all the known atrocities committed by some US soldiers.

Maybe then you'll understand this statement from my OP.

Now another atrocity,more shame and disgrace has to be added to the list,it cannot be ignored,though the US military and government has tried since 2004.

[edit on 7-11-2008 by jakyll]

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by IAF101
Rape in the military is not like rape in the civilian world. So stop preaching.

Wasn't aware that calling you on a chauvinistic comment was preaching.

Soldiers are under extreme pressures in a very demanding environment that requires them to be away from their wives, girlfriends or lovers. A moments indiscretion is not the same as some crazy sicko on a power trip in the civilian world.

A moments indiscretion? Really? You call rape a moments indiscretion? You can't be serious. Anyone who will force someone else into a sexual act, yes I mean rape, is a crazy sicko who needs a head check. A momentary indiscretion would be kissing a consenting adult when you are married to someone else. Forcing yourself upon someone just because you are strong enough to do it is not a momentary indiscretion. But please continue giving rapists excuses.

War and rapine have always gone hand in hand through out human history. When you force a man to go out and kill day in and day out, you make him regress to his baser instincts. You just cant expect him to flip a switch in his brain on and off between killer and gentleman.

Yet hundreds of thousands of men do it every day. Hundreds of thousands of men who are over-seas right now, and those who have been there and came back home, have made it through an entire tour or two or three and not raped anyone. Talk about broad sweeping generalizations.

It is not chauvinistic nor is it insensitive. You poor attempts at generalizing everything into some crime and expect these men to always to behave like how you want them to is what is insensitive and chauvinistic.

Providing excuses for rapists is not insensitive? Perhaps you would like to ask someone who has been raped if that is insensitive. Of course I am probably asking too much of you there.

Where did I generalize anything into a crime that is not, in fact, a crime? Rape is a crime. It is about the worst thing you can do to someone, whether you are in the military or not. Now where in that did I generalize something into a crime that isn't one? Please explain.

So expecting men to behave like human beings is insensitive and chauvinistic but providing excuses for rapists is not? Really?

reply to post by jakyll


Your debate style seems to be trying to dictate what points others are allowed to make. Sorry, nobody put you in charge, this is an open forum,you do not get to dictate how others will respond.

What people will remember from this war is how religious extremists tried to coerce the world into following their extremist religious dogma by blowing up innocents, including women and children, in the market place where they go to buy food. This is the horrible attrocity of this war on terror. What a few bad soldiers in the U.S. army do in this war will be long forgotten.

Your attempt to compare the actions to a few criminals to the systematic government sponsored genocide of a people as carried out by the NAZI's in WW II is nothing short of pathetic. What has been committed by U.S. soldiers in no way compares to striping down men, women, and children together, stripping them of all dignity, of all their humanity, and marching them into an oven and cooking them alive.

Your attempt to claim these two things are equal is so off the charts, I don't see how you can return and post anything but a retraction of such a claim. You have detroyed all credibility you might have carried by such a claim.

reply to post by poet1b

Your attempt to compare the actions to a few criminals to the systematic government sponsored genocide of a people as carried out by the NAZI's in WW II is nothing short of pathetic....

Your attempt to claim these two things are equal is so off the charts

Yeah,i was comparing people's reactions to atrocities not the atrocities themselves.So where in the below statement did i compare the acts or call them equal??

It is sadly a statement of fact that many people will think of such things when America is mentioned.Just as many Chinese people think of the Rape of Nanking at the mention of the Japanese.Just as many Americans think of 9/11 at the mention of Islam.Just as many Jews will think of the Nazi's at the mention of Germany.There is no picking on individuals,its an 'accuse everyone' mentality.Its as natural as it is irrational.

Oh and have you backed up your many other accusations yet? Have you been able to find the things you think i said? Just wondering coz the list is getting longer and longer and your rants and delusions are getting wilder and wilder.



[edit on 7-11-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by jakyll


Well, to anyone with any level of common sense, the difference between the NAZI's at the holacaust and the actions of U.S. soldiers in Iraq are clearly different. Your claims that they are the same are a sad statement about your reasoning skills, and the whole premise of this thread.