The Enemy Within:US Female Soldiers Raped.

reply to post by plutoxgirl


Well, like I said in an earlier post,

I know some army girls that could give some of the guys I know a run for their money both in strength and intelligence.

They get a +1 mod for being military females..... j/k - dnd joke. Sorry.

raven bombshell

Especially about the fact we are not taught hand-to-hand combat in the military.

Is that the same for all units?
Just curious because i have a cpl of friends in the US military and they have learnt basic hand to hand combat.




poet1b

These explanations have all been put forth on this thread, but your consistent response is to attack those who explain the reasons.

Its quite simple,this thread is not about the comparison of rapes in the military to rapes at colleges or anywhere else,its about women who are raped in Iraq by their own side.How many times do i have to say it before you grasp that fact??

All you response shows that you don't a thing about the reasons behind more women reporting being sexually assaulted, all you want to do is bash U.S. soldiers.

I'll bash any soldier who rapes their fellow soldier,no matter what their nationality is.Note i said soldier,not the whole damn force.

If you were interested in a discussion, you wouldn't have started this thread in attack mode. You deserve everything that you get. If you want to honestly discuss the situation, than you should start all over, and appologize if you seem to come off as wanting to attack the reputations of U.S. soldiers.

I am interested in the discussion of female soldiers being raped in Iraq by their own side.But you are like supersuckviking,you didn't address that issue at all,you went straight off topic.

Your first responce;

If these articles provide no statistics to show that rapes are higher in the war zone than they are in civilian life, than all you who pile on to put down U.S. soldiers are the real scumbags. Nothing worse than a bunch of hypocrits.

What percentage of men are potential rapists?

What percentage of men commit rapes in the military. If these numbers are roughly the same as in the civilian world, then all you civilians should be laying all these harsh judgements on yourselves that you are so eager to lay on U.S. soldiers.

Are you as readily willing to condemn other groups who are also known for high rates of rape? The same groups willing to put down U.S. soldiers for rapes that occur in the military without looking closer at the facts, would probably bend over backwards protecting other groups that are shown to have higher incidents of rape.

My first source talks of rapes in Iraq,not ratios and not comparisons with everyday society.My second source also talks of this.My third source talks about Iraq and mentions figures from the whole of the military stationed around the world,the only comparison they do is with different years.And my final source talks about the same things as the first and second.So stay on topic.

Well, how easy is it to dig up all the stories of sexual abuse about the British and Polish armies. There are basically two recently released stories on the problems in the U.S. armies, and that is all, so stories that came out last year or the year before will be very hard to find.

Of course there is abuse in other armed forces such as Britain's,i worked on many cases myself when i was with the military police.But theres one major flaw with your sources,they're about sexual abuse in the military as a whole,not sexual abuse in Iraq,like i asked and like this thread is about.


Now either stay on topic,sod off,or sod off start your own thread about how the ratios blah blah blah....

And i'll apologize to you the very moment before i apologize to that chuff superuperduperviking ok? i'm sure you won't mind waiting til hell freezes over.





[edit on 5-11-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by jakyll




You're a disinfo agent is your best response? You're the one taking things off topic and the sad part is you're too stupid to even recognize that.

You specifically created this thread to try to discredit the US army. When it was pointed out the ratio was about the same, military and civilian, you didn't have a response (except to make a fool out of yourself by exhibiting you didn't know anything about statistics). Then you tried to act as if the American military footprint and others in Iraq was even close to comparable when it wasn't, and even then you relied on media reports instead of actual cases to support your already-wrong supposition! And you have the nerve to still post in this thread? I'm impressed.

reply to post by jakyll


I too was under the impression that all units were taught basic hand-to-hand combat in basic training. But it is completely possible that different branches or different units/MOS' do not go through that training since they typically do not ever see combat. I'm not sure about that though.

Also, I think that the main reason statistics comparing rapes in the military to rapes outside the military were brought up, at least by me can't speak for anyone else, was because of the wild accusations being thrown around in this thread and others about all military men being rapists. That made the statistics for rape outside the military relevant. One can hardly expect accusations to be thrown about without a few who have lived part or most of their life as members of the military stepping in saying "That's not how it is." and then proving their point with sources and statistics.

And really no thread stays on the specific topic of the original post after 15 pages, that it has lasted this long without being locked is an achievement few threads see. From what I have seen, with rare exception, every poster has agreed that rape is horrible regardless if it happens in or out of the military, in or out of a war zone, or if it is a male or female who is raped.

reply to post by SuperViking


Seen as you have yet to find the exact quotes where i said;

1)All military zones were of equal size.

2)

You honestly said you cared more about media reports of sexual harrassment than actual cases.

3)

YOU said you weren't talking about actual cases, you were talking about media reports!

I hestitate to ask you to do the same for this statement;

You specifically created this thread to try to discredit the US army.

When and where did i say this,hmm?

Was it before or after i said this to mf_luder?

I agree that there are plenty of soldiers who do not carry out such actions,on fellow soldiers or the enemy.War can turn some men into monsters,their minds become unhinged.Some are already that way inclined and war gives them a chance to give vent to their violent natures.Other men manage to retain their humanity.

I do not think it is OK if the rate of rape in the Military matches the rate of rape in civilian life. The fact that it is being actively covered up is what you should be extra concerned about. I really hate it when there is an attitude that you can do whatever you can get away with.

reply to post by Jenna


Oh,i understand your replies to such posts.

And i know threads can take a natural migration to something else,I just have a great dislike for people who join a thread simply to derail it,as those 2 chuffs poet1b and simpleviking have tried to do.





[edit on 5-11-2008 by jakyll]

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by SuperViking

 

Seen as you have yet to find the exact quotes where i said;

1)All military zones were of equal size.

Why did you tell us the country was divided into four zones then? What was the point? Why not say how many of what nations soldiers are there? I KNOW why- because you wanted to further your agenda by using misleading language.

We can all see what you're doing.

reply to post by SuperViking


Instead of making even more daft accusations find these quotes.

1)

All military zones were of equal size.

2)

You honestly said you cared more about media reports of sexual harrassment than actual cases./YOU said you weren't talking about actual cases, you were talking about media reports!

3)

You specifically created this thread to try to discredit the US army.

Copy and paste them and give the page number they were posted on.



[edit on 5-11-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by jakyll

Its quite simple,this thread is not about the comparison of rapes in the military to rapes at colleges or anywhere else,its about women who are raped in Iraq by their own side.

Really, I call BULLSHEET, cause from the beginning you posts have been about attacking U.S. military personel, and has consistently been about attacking military morality. Where do you contribute anything intelligent about women who are raped by their own side in the military. I just posted a well written article on the subject, and you had nothing to contribute.

You don't want an intelligent discussion about the subject you claim you want to discuss, you just want to use the thread to slander U.S. military personnel. All members are allowed to participate in any thread offerred on ATS, you don't get to dictate who joins in the conversation. You created this thread to slam U.S. military personnel, I joined it to show what an ignorant bigot your are, as is my right.

reply to post by poet1b


Blah,blah,blahhhhh.
From the very beginning you have failed to address the fact that these rapes have been happening.You have ignored the reports released by the military and governments on these rapes.Are you hoping it'll all go away if you ignore it? Will that make it easier for you to believe that this war is a noble cause?

You created this thread to slam U.S. military personnel, I joined it to show what an ignorant bigot your are, as is my right.

Don't act like you know me.

I will slam any military personnel from any country if they carry out such actions and those who cover up such things.


You're almost as desperate as simpleviking.
Find in my posts where i have claimed that all US soldiers are like this.
Copy and paste 'em and give the page numbers.

reply to post by jakyll


I knew you were mildly ignorant, but you DO know you don't have to say something clearly in order to imply it, right? Why else mention the fact that there were only 4 zones? Why not bring up troop numbers themselves? We all know why.

reply to post by SuperViking


Find these quotes.

1)

All military zones were of equal size.

2)

You honestly said you cared more about media reports of sexual harrassment than actual cases./YOU said you weren't talking about actual cases, you were talking about media reports!

3)

You specifically created this thread to try to discredit the US army.

Copy and paste them and give the page number they were posted on.

reply to post by jakyll



I knew you were mildly ignorant, but you DO know you don't have to say something clearly in order to imply it, right? Why else mention the fact that there were only 4 zones? Why not bring up troop numbers themselves? We all know why.

reply to post by SuperViking


Find these quotes.Have the guts to at least try and back up your accusations you made in the 1st place.

1)

All military zones were of equal size.

2)

You honestly said you cared more about media reports of sexual harrassment than actual cases./YOU said you weren't talking about actual cases, you were talking about media reports!

3)

You specifically created this thread to try to discredit the US army.



Copy and paste them and give the page number they were posted on.

reply to post by jakyll


How long do you want to play this game?


I knew you were mildly ignorant, but you DO know you don't have to say something clearly in order to imply it, right? Why else mention the fact that there were only 4 zones? Why not bring up troop numbers themselves? We all know why.

Originally posted by jakyll
raven bombshell

Especially about the fact we are not taught hand-to-hand combat in the military.

Is that the same for all units?
Just curious because i have a cpl of friends in the US military and they have learnt basic hand to hand combat.

It varies quite a lot between branches of service and career fields. I was in the AF financial management field. I was taught how to shoot the m16 and the 9mm and I was taught how to protect myself from chemical warfare- wearing the protective gear, gas mask, atropine injection, etc. We also learn first aid. There were no knives issued ever- illegal to carry as far as I know. I could not carry cash and a weapon at the same time when i was a paying agent. I had zero hand to hand combat training. I was active duty for 12 years, then I worked as a civilian for 4 more where I kept up with all the training because I still managed military. It is still this way with the training in AF unless they changed it in the past 9 months.

Folks don't realize that all branches are not the same. AF law enforcement and investigation type jobs definitely have a different training than someone like me. I don't expect soldiers from other military branches and civilians to know this. I got a little fired up when some posters insisted that the rape victims should have been able to defend themselves from the attacks.

Edit to add:
I don't think I said this before, but in my 16 years of military experience i met some outstanding people. In fact most of them were fine individuals. I did have some very negative experiences, however, that leads me to trust that the OP with all the posted source links was quite accurate in the extent of rape cover up in the military. I'm not talking about my personal stuff. I was in a position to review non-judicial punishment (art 15) documents and court martial results because I was responsible for taking pay from members sentenced with forfeitures of pay. These papers detailed every offense. Many sexual offenses were punished using the article 15 (read "slap on the wrist"). I'm not talking about winking or squeezing a shoulder. In fact, I have seen thousands of these papers I never saw someone get in trouble for just winking or making an off-color joke.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by raven bombshell]

reply to post by raven bombshell


As i said,i was just curious.As far as i know with the British military,its only the non-combatant units that don't learn basic hand to hand combat.I'll have to double check that though.

I was only in the Military Police for 6yrs,as i knee injury meant i couldn't continue my service,and in that time i met a few assholes,(both sexes)as you can imagine,lol.but no guy ever tried anything with me.I did deal with quite a few sexual abuse cases concerning other soldiers though,female and male alike.And there were a few occassions when the top brass covered up certain cases,as they do.



[edit on 5-11-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by jakyll


And you will continue to come off a someone with a severe personality disorder. Your handle fits you, you sound like a typical villian on some kids cartoon show.

Rapes happen in the military for the reasons I clearly explained, and I posted links which concur. Numerous other posters here have also provided, clear explanations of why these things happen, and given excellent testimony about their experiences.

I think the rape rates on college campuses are far more alarming. When the numbers are looked at, the frequency of rape is actually lower in the military than the civilian world.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by jakyll

 

Your handle fits you, you sound like a typical villian on some kids cartoon show.

LOL!!!!!!!

Sorry - completely off topic, but that was a good one.

No offense to any parties involved.