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The Enemy Within:US Female Soldiers Raped.

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posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 07:14 PM
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The news? You thought I was talking about the news?
I'm fairly certain the Polish army doesn't distribute information nearly as freely as the US one does, and when it does it's not done in English.

Not that any of that has to do with the overwhelming ratio at play that you conveniently entirely ignored and, in fact, tried to obfuscate.




posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 08:35 PM
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reply to post by Jenna
 




I honestly think that a lot of the posters, not all but a lot of them, are missing the point that while rape is horrible regardless of what occupation the perpetrator happens to have, and that yes some men manage to get into the military and then go and rape someone, it is not something that happens more often in the military than in the civilian world. I provided my own research a few pages back that shows this. Yet it was over-looked and ignored by the majority of the posters since then because it does not fit in with their view of reality. And again I say, that is just asinine.


I agree with most of what you say.

I keep trying to get across to people that this thread isn't about the rate of rape in the military,its about the raping of women in Iraq by their own side.

Your information and views are appreciated though.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by SuperViking
 


Oh dear me now,that wasn't funny at all!

And just to clarify,you said;



And your response was to ask about reports filed in less transparent armies


I said,



Now,just how many breaking stories of rape and other crimes has their been...


Breaking stories does not imply official military reports,it implies the news,the place where these crimes are first read by the vast majority of people.






[edit on 4-11-2008 by jakyll]



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 08:51 PM
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So you're just asking about media reports and not actual facts? Uh...? Who cares about reports? Why are you more concerned with reports than with actual cases?

Jesus, you're just making this worse and worse.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by SuperViking
 


And again with that logic of yours.

I asked one person about the news,not you or anyone else.

And in my OP i quoted 4 sources.Its reported in the media but it comes from;source 1-actual court testimony./source 2-the Pentagon and members of Congress./source 3-Jane Harman,a seven-term Democratic member of the United States House of Representatives and member of the Committee on Homeland Security./And finally the only unofficial source,source 4-personal conversations with female soldiers.



[edit on 4-11-2008 by jakyll]



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 09:27 PM
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Are you moving the goalposts again? You're more concerned about media reports when it fits your agenda, and not when it doesn't. Typical. You have an agenda and scour sources to support that agenda (kinda obvious in your posts). It should work the other way around- give it a shot.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by SuperViking
 


You mean asking one person about news reports makes me concerned?

You're getting desperate supersoldier.

The media is the biggest source of news for people,the military passes reports on to them,not random civilians.

And i scoured nothing.Follow the link to see what i did.I think every link in the first 3 pages alone are on this subject.
www.google.co.uk...



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


You attempting to correct me and tell us how you were concerned more with media reports than facts concerns me. It's basically your MO.

Not understanding ratios.

Refusing to understand foreign relations in any realist fashion.

Attempting to discredit NATO simply...because.

It's how you operate- it's not surprise. You honestly said you cared more about media reports of sexual harrassment than actual cases. What more needs to be said?



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by SuperViking
 


More desperation.

Find the post where i used that exact phrase.

And again,this isn't about ratios,its about women in Iraq raped by their own side.Is that too difficult to grasp??




Refusing to understand foreign relations in any realist fashion.


Raping a fellow soldier is about foreign relations,since when?



Attempting to discredit NATO simply


And going off what you mentioned in another thread,questioning whether NATO in fact still exists,this comment is laughable.




[edit on 4-11-2008 by jakyll]



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


LOL! YOU said you weren't talking about actual cases, you were talking about media reports! Why on earth would you make that distinction if not because one supported your agenda and another didn't?

My "question" about NATO was a rhetorical one, LOL.
As in "The Warsaw Pact doesn't exist, does it?" (Hint: I know the answer) "NATO still exists, doesn't it?" (Hint: I also know the answer).

Your gross ignorance about virtually everything you post is making you look like a fool. Like at this thread. No one responds because they realize you're just looking dumber and dumber.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by SuperViking
 




LOL! YOU said you weren't talking about actual cases, you were talking about media reports! Why on earth would you make that distinction if not because one supported your agenda and another didn't?


Again,show where on this thread i said such a thing.Coz right now you're grasping at straws.




Your gross ignorance about virtually everything you post is making you look like a fool. Like at this thread. No one responds because they realize you're just looking dumber and dumber.


Ooooh,i have 14 pages of no response.Amazing!


From your very first post on here you have tried to derail this thread.



Calihan= Smoking hot avatar.

Anyway, these stats are about equal to regular US society stats. What is the story again?


In fact,that was also the same question in your 2nd and 3rd posts.Way to go on missing (with intention) what the OP is about.


You're attempting to do what you have in all my other political threads,derail it til no one cares to debate anymore,which is kinda pathetic.Its also like you're admitting you know its all true,and you don't want anyone else to find out.

You are nothing but a disinfo agent and the only reason i continue debating with you is because it amuses me.You're a puppet who's been sent on to this site by the government.But you're too much of a clown to be ever taken seriously,so its been fun scoring lotsa points off you.Its helped me catch up to my dads score.Cheers meat head.





[edit on 4-11-2008 by jakyll]



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by Tricky63

Originally posted by calihan123
Of course women are going to get raped. These men are stuck over there for months, or years at a time with no contact with women.. if one comes in site, you better believe they are going to rape her.

That is a sad reality of having women in the service. But they should know the dangers of that happening, before they decide to become a soldier. How could they they not know that would happen?

Men are very sexual. When you take that away from them.. they do things they wouldnt normally do. Sex literally can control them. So whereas they wouldnt rape a woman in normal life, over there they do because sex is taken away from them.

Please dont lump all men in this crap.As a father of two daughters and a man with morals I sorta take offense to that.NOT ALL MEN ARE THAT WAY.Those jerks that raped those women do not I repeat do not represent all men.Believe it or some of us "men" can work in crazy situations with women and not think about raping them.Get a grip



Jeezus- thanks Tricky! I really am glad you said that. People don't place themselves in these situations and empathize sometimes. All men have mothers, sisters, wives, daughters female best friends- someone female they cherish. You don't have to be female to empathize here! Thank you.

Angleblu (sp?)- Thanks for a lot of well-made points and explanations. Especially about the fact we are not taught hand-to-hand combat in the military. I see that a lot of posters do not know that. I have been in many dangerous situations (by orders) where I didn't even have a weapon issued. And those cotton BDUs aint bullet-proof baby!
I starred most of your posts btw.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 01:09 AM
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Originally posted by craig732

Originally posted by TheOracle
Are they at least allowed to bring their personal security device on camp? pepper sprays, tasers and alarms?


No they are not.

They are, however, REQUIRED to carry their rifle with them EVERYWHERE. In most cases they will also have a sidearm and a knife.


Untrue- while it is true that anyone in a combat area in Iraq will have an m16 at least, not all military in all situations are armed. I was never allowed a weapon while carrying cash- someone else had the weapon. Thats a small example. I was in many situations where i was extremely vulnerable. I mentioned one already- guarding a building with no weapon, phone, or radio. I couldn't even keep mosquitoes out like that. I once had to work with inmates from a nearby prison on a detail and I was not armed then either. And I have never seen an issued knife at all. All of us vets posting are from different branches and career fields. There are a lot of differences.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 01:14 AM
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I think everyone is missing the point. The military is not like civilian life. Our soldiers are, to a large extent, at the mercy of the command structure. If anyone in the military is raped in such a situation, it is a major failure. All such incidents should be taken seriously, and none should be dismissed as part of normal human nature.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:35 AM
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reply to post by liquidsmoke206
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

What you're on is a lot of generalisation, and sweeping statements. Have these sick crimes taken place? Indeed. Have others taken place? Indeed. Have all soldiers partaken in the deeds? No. So instead of making sweeping generalisations, try to be a bit more specific.




As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 03:27 AM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


The fact that the ratios of women to men are so heavily skewered in the military that the number of women to potential rapists is much higher than in places like college campuses, increases the odds the higher numbers of women will be raped. This is not an excuse, it is a fact, a basic statistics. the more potential rapists to the number of women, the higher the percentage of women who will be assaulted. This is all due to the far greater numbers of men than women.

The well recorded nature of the way people behave in highly stressful situtations, shows that people are more likely to do very bad things when under great amounts of stress. Combat zones are as stressful as it gets. This isn't an excuse, it is a well observed reality of human behavior. This noted behavior not only explains why more men might be willing to rape even fellow soldiers in combats zones, it also explains why more women would be more willing to falsely report sexual assualts that never occurred.

These explanations have all been put forth on this thread, but your consistent response is to attack those who explain the reasons.

All you response shows that you don't a thing about the reasons behind more women reporting being sexually assaulted, all you want to do is bash U.S. soldiers.

As far as what soldiers in other armies do, it demonstrates whether or not such behavior is a matter of culture or more a result of the stress of war and combat situations where women serve with men. If you were honestly interested in an intelligent conversation, instead of attacking me for bring up these points, at least you would ask why they are relevant.

Looking at college age men, who tend to be around the same age as the average soldier, offers another explanation of why such behavior occurs, but according to you I am trying to derail the thread.

If you were interested in a discussion, you wouldn't have started this thread in attack mode. You deserve everything that you get. If you want to honestly discuss the situation, than you should start all over, and appologize if you seem to come off as wanting to attack the reputations of U.S. soldiers.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 04:19 AM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


Well, how easy is it to dig up all the stories of sexual abuse about the British and Polish armies. There are basically two recently released stories on the problems in the U.S. armies, and that is all, so stories that came out last year or the year before will be very hard to find.

They are out there.

www.free-press-release.com...

This blogs shows how biased reports on soldiers can be.

brackenworld.blogspot.com...

The Polish army has very, very few women in service.

www.wp.mil.pl...

If you are looking for an intelligent discussion on the subject, try this link. I especially like this line.

www.villainouscompany.com...


Either it is not true that these women can defend themselves as well as men both verbally or physically (in which case they should be fully integrated into all branches of the military with no special accommodations) or they cannot even defend themselves against the depredations of some of their stronger male coworkers (in which case they require special protections if they are to be integrated, even in a limited way, into the armed forces).

Either it is true that men and women can bunk, shower, and defecate in close quarters without causing problems detrimental to the good order and discipline of the command, OR 4 in 10 women who live and work in close quarters with men are being raped and/or sexually harassed.

They can't both be true.

That is, unless Ms. Harmon doesn't consider rape detrimental to good order and discipline. She can't, unlike many feminists, have it both ways. She can't insist 40% of women are being raped and sexually harassed on the job, yet insist integrating women into the armed forces doesn't have a negative effect on command readiness. That just doesn't make sense.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 04:43 AM
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I have a solution

Put female soldiers in units with only gay male soldiers. There wont be rape, it will be a pleasant environment for the women. And the gay men that want to have sex will find another guy thats willing to have sex.

Problem solved ^^



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 05:14 AM
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reply to post by Isispriest
 


On second thought, maybe we should try to have a little compassion for "calihan123".

I can only begin to imagine how a woman would have such a twisted view of men and their overpowering and brutal sexual urges. She must have such awful low-life role models in her family and her up-bringing to think that it is normal for men to be controlled by their sexual urges. Now, because of these bad experiences, she attracts more undisciplined, uncaring, selfish, controlling men into her life, because that is what she is used to putting up with.

You poor sad woman. You need to be aware that rape is an awful crime, it is never justified, no means no, and the vast majority of men agree with this. Most men are not abusers of women, children, animals, or their fellow men.


[edit on 5-11-2008 by Isispriest]



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 06:25 AM
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Originally posted by calihan123
Of course women are going to get raped. These men are stuck over there for months, or years at a time with no contact with women.. if one comes in site, you better believe they are going to rape her.

That is a sad reality of having women in the service. But they should know the dangers of that happening, before they decide to become a soldier. How could they they not know that would happen?

Men are very sexual. When you take that away from them.. they do things they wouldnt normally do. Sex literally can control them. So whereas they wouldnt rape a woman in normal life, over there they do because sex is taken away from them.



OMG- I can't believe this reply
- and you are a woman!!! for godsake..
I feel offended by your post. You are justifying rape because men (in your words) "are very sexual" and are put in extreme situations??? WTF
- I think you have no clue what you are talking about.


Any "normal" and honorable man wouldn't do that in whatever EXTREME situation they are in.

I don't know if this records are true, if so, it's very sad to hear.

And I disagree with the ones saying women shouldn't be in the military. They have the same right! Why should they do something else if they want to be there??- Of course we are in a world dominated by men, but that doesn't mean women shouldn't venture in whatever field they like or be fearful "of the consequences". Things like that shoulnd't happen not in the military not anywhere.


At the end, it's all about RESPECT.



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