How to save the World, and influence things.

Derrick Jensen on Civilization

Endgame, Part 1
Endgame, Part 2

This thread kicks ass. A while ago I read a bunch of stuff about Tesla's experiments with earth and human resonance. These vids really lay out how everything connects and reacts together. Good vibrations all around, thank you

if consciousness dictates who the observer is, and an object can be set in motion by an observer then how is there anything left that hasn't been converted to an observer? even the electrons should be observing themselves.

what about dead flesh, when we die our flesh doesn't vaporize inside a coffin. what dictates the length of time an object can be left as an observer? what stops an object from flucuating from observer to observee? if observing a non observed object can make it become the observer then doesn't that mean non-observing objects should pull the observed object back to non observer status?

at what point does the electron become observed? surely it was seen before at some time in the past. there has to be some sort of reservoir or generator in the machine that fires the electron, hence, they have been observed but are still in wave form.. ??

Good to see some people are catching up.

However, it is what is in the "True Heart and Mind" of human beings that must be dealt with and because the truth is most people know they are corrupted and embraced evil, they pursue justice. Self serving and deluded as most humans are, you will deny this but, I am telling you that most adults (I exclude children that are pure up-to some point in their lives) know that are and have done evil; even if it is by way of allowing evil, and as a consequence, they are seeking and reinforcing payback.

There are pure souls on this planet who have lived lives without evil and have been praying for the world but they have been being killed off and even all the false religions, which all are, have lost their few redeeming qualities; such as confession and forgiveness of sins.

I personally have been way past mincing words or trying to split hairs in order to say anything to anyone because there is no point. So, I am going to tell you straight up.

Mankind knows in its heart of hearts that it is bad and deserves destruction and consequently, nothing is going to stop, side step or prevent the mass retribution that has begun. The High will be brought low, the low will be brought lower, all according to where they are; few will be raised but, since all that lives has a spirit, none will die, just their current physical existence.

You will undoubtedly think, say and do what you like but, I am telling you that mankind knows it deserves to be punished and will be all but wiped out, just as it has several other times. I do not know if it will be utterly or minorly..that is to say, I do not know if what is now will be wiped so cleanly from the planet that 10,000 years from now there will be no record of us or if it will be something like the Dark Ages. What I am sure of is this; mankind today is as sick and corrupted equal to the worst in recorded history; that deep in the heart and minds of most, we all know this and nothing is going to stop us from destroying ourselves..or as the case is, this civilization.

He who is WITHOUT SIN is a liar.

And so, yes Energy will adapt to whatever the "Viewer" expects, mankind expects to be stomped and is going to be.

Now, go prove me wrong.

When I first saw the "What the Bleep" movies it brought me closer to and improved my faith in Jesus. Whether you believe it is God or you someone/thing/universe is listening when you pray.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by verbal kint

 

Out my league too. All I have to go by is "quantum mechanics for dummies", which say that unless you can do the math none of it is going to make any sense and even if you can it's beyond weird.

I can't do the math. I get to calculus then freak out. "They" tell me that at the quantum level it can happen, an electron just turns into a wave and back. You can see where it is but not how it got there, where it's going but not where it will end up. Don't bother me with details. What happens at the quantum level has very little relationship to what happens at the "real" level and attempts to join the two are bound to give one a headache.

For all of you that can't grasp the concept of quantum physics, or feel that it has no real bearing in science.

I will leave you with two important perspectives.

One man once said, anyone who tries to tell you they understand everything about quantum physics is a complete liar.

Another man once said, to believe or disbelieve any peice of information is the true pinnicale of ignorance. To claim one can know the answer to any question is in fact a fallacy as every answer in the Universe we can attain was derived by another beings perspective.

In other words kids. 2+2 may equal 4 and make sense to you.

But if you start at a different reference point, say base 6 in stead of base 10.

2+2 does not equal 4

additionally. If you count in binary, the numbers 2 and 4 do not exist.

Therefore, to allow your perspective of reality (the holograph that is our universe) to change or lock onto an answer as absolute TRUTH or absolute FICTION you disallow the other perspectives to emerge within your own perspective and show you the real reality of life, that everything happens and nothing happens.

Everything exists and nothing exists.

Nothing is True. Everything is permitted.

Deny ignorance, embrace knowledge, explore the unknown and create your own reflection of the world you desire. Desire begets results and we are divine creatures created by desire.

Manifest your paradise.

reply to post by Quantum_Squirrel


Nicely done and worthy of a star. Indeed, we do influence our reality. There have been many on this planet who taught this and many who are practicing these principles 24/7. As individuated souls or entities of like cosmic makeup, we all contribute to the collective consciousness which is our collective soul. We must maintain the root of love in all we do and eventually, the darkness of ignorance will disappear.

I just want to say thank you Quantum_Squirrel for these videos and this thread...absolutely amazing!

I do have some questions, though, so forgive my lack of understanding of this subject. Definitely way over my head.

First, if a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it does it make a sound?

Second, this looks to me like it could cause huge problems with relativity, yes? If information cannot travel faster than the speed of light, it seems like the whole idea of relativity goes down the drain when two particles, or one particle in two places, are connected and instantly 'changed' no matter the distance.

Also, how far has the 'observer' or 'willpower' experiments gone? I'd love to know of any more connections between the observer affect and natural consequences (such as the water videos posted on page 2).

Once again, thank you for this thread, astonishing! Star and Flag for the breath of fresh air to ATS in lieu of all the negative end-times threads.

Just got done watching the whole what the bleep do we know, down the rabbit hole on youtube, and the center of my head hurts now, but I think what I took away from it is the fact that whenever we are feeling depressed / oppressed, we just need to take a step back and ask ourselves, is this good for me? Are my thoughts acting as an anchor to an already sinking ship? And last; how can I become a steel plate to stop the bleeding?

I think right now the world as a whole is technically like the titanic. Whether we wake up to whats going on, and try to better ourselves for the good of our race, instead of being whores to TV, and internet, or whatever else it is that we may be addicted to; will determine if that beacon of hope will go out or not.

I joined ATS to say that this is truly an amazing thread. A star and flag for you!

When the electron was exposed to the observer I got reminded of the research method in psychology which is of course named Observation.
Why?
When the observed one knows that you are observing him, he will act differently than if he wouldn't know. If he will know, you will infuence the whole observation process thus influence many realities (his and of those that are also participating)...

Interesting videos!

What I don't understand is how is it possibly for a particle to know that it is observed? Does it have a consciousness of its own (based on logic and what we know, it can't have since it's only matter) or do we have some kind of influence on it? If it is the latter, then why the effect of our influence on the electron is for it to behave as a particle as it already is instead of a wave which normally does when it is not observed? Even if we influence it when we observe it, I don't understand why our influence only has to do with the wave-particle qualities of it. Of course, it is also equally mystifying the way we influence it. What kind of interaction takes place between us, the observers, and the electron...?

Alexandros

Originally posted by Cairowoman
When I first saw the "What the Bleep" movies it brought me closer to and improved my faith in Jesus. Whether you believe it is God or you someone/thing/universe is listening when you pray.

I would highly recommend a read of Neale Donald Walschs' Conversations With God, you may well find it compliments what the bleep.

Here is a possible and simplest explanation;

As a particle travels through space/time it emits a wave of energy. Therefore, the pattern can be either particulate or wave depending on the environment.

Now, when a nearby electronic device is introduced (observer) it probably interferes or cancels out the wave emission of the particle. Canceling the wave will result in a regular particulate pattern.

I believe the test is flawed if it does not consider the "observer's" possible interference.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by nikolat23]

Originally posted by Alexander_Supertramp


First, if a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it does it make a sound?

Based on my observations and extensive reaserch into trees falling and making a sound i can say 100% of the time when they hit the ground they make a sound.. so yes.

Maybe a better 'Quantum' question would be ...

if i dont observe how will i know if the tree ever fell down at all? because until you go and look , the tree is still standing, in the process of falling and felled ALL at the same time.

Second, this looks to me like it could cause huge problems with relativity, yes? If information cannot travel faster than the speed of light, it seems like the whole idea of relativity goes down the drain when two particles, or one particle in two places, are connected and instantly 'changed' no matter the distance.

The 'Theory of relativity' is just that a .. theory,

recent experiments of slowing light down and speeding it up has indeed shown that light can break its own speed ..sometimes , so the theory my not be as relative you assume.

this however is not an unusual question, there is a missing link between classical physics and the quantum reality, in fact to find this link is currently considered to be the 'holy grail' of physics. however both sets of rules wor very very well when applied to their own sizes only.. quantum phyisics only works at the quantum lvl etc..

Originally posted by Krisclin
I joined ATS to say that this is truly an amazing thread. A star and flag for you!

When the electron was exposed to the observer I got reminded of the research method in psychology which is of course named Observation.
Why?
When the observed one knows that you are observing him, he will act differently than if he wouldn't know. If he will know, you will infuence the whole observation process thus influence many realities (his and of those that are also participating)...

Welcome to ATS i am honored that you joined after reading this thread, i did a lil pshycology and yes now you point it out , it is strikingly similar, if the subject knows it is an experiment or is being watched the result changes .. interesting.

Originally posted by nikolat23
Here is a possible and simplest explanation;

As a particle travels through space/time it emits a wave of energy. Therefore, the pattern can be either particulate or wave depending on the environment.

Now, when a nearby electronic device is introduced (observer) it probably interferes or cancels out the wave emission of the particle. Canceling the wave will result in a regular particulate pattern.

I believe the test is flawed if it does not consider the "observer's" possible interference.

The whole concept rely's on the observers interference.. it is paramount.

You see, Reality at that level is not exactly as we percieve it , the fact that we observe it forces it to choose its place in the material universe.




[edit on 29/10/08 by Quantum_Squirrel]

i just thought of something if objects are in different places all at the same time, does that mean i can change it from the natural object to one of the other objects hence teleporting it or even myself.

There is an endless stream of possibility here that i am going to attempt to tap into with what i have.

I did catch something in the video i didnt notice before which was the flame meditation, which i feel has potential to solve some of the complications i am having with getting this "ability" to work to my will.

Its very strange the way it works, its like i have to think about it, but not to much, i have to have a deeper motivation for it to happen and sometimes i have to imagine it happening, and sometimes it just happens because of a simple thought out of nowhere, it gets me pissed off sometimes.

btw - I actually used this ability to get a free lunch before... lol i cant believe that was brought up

very nice indeed, I had read a bit about this before but this is much clearer.

Star and flag.

reply to post by Alexander1111

What I don't understand is how is it possibly for a particle to know that it is observed? Does it have a consciousness of its own (based on logic and what we know, it can't have since it's only matter) or do we have some kind of influence on it? If it is the latter, then why the effect of our influence on the electron is for it to behave as a particle as it already is instead of a wave which normally does when it is not observed? Even if we influence it when we observe it, I don't understand why our influence only has to do with the wave-particle qualities of it. Of course, it is also equally mystifying the way we influence it. What kind of interaction takes place between us, the observers, and the electron...?

Everything is about energy. It is said that even God is "dynamic energy." I believe that everyone and every thing influences energy and is influenced by energy. A particle does not need to have feelings or a personality but can be swayed by energy just like it can from a breeze. But we don't see energy in a typical sense but can see the results of energy.

This is why you can have so many people who can influence energy in a positive or negative way. Look at riots; an individual can get caught up in the energy and it may not even be their cause.

Also, a very negative person can influence a crowd of people. It is very rare that a person can get in the mud to help someone and not get dirty.

There are natural principles that also must be applied. I think it would be wrong to assume that it is all helter-skelter! That there is a divine quality to it, and it can be a positive experience or a negative one depending on where the person is coming from.

But how can the universe use it? And are they?

reply to post by tankthinker

Its very strange the way it works, its like i have to think about it, but not to much, i have to have a deeper motivation for it to happen and sometimes i have to imagine it happening, and sometimes it just happens because of a simple thought out of nowhere, it gets me pissed off sometimes.

I have very similar experiences. I will say one day: we could really use some rain and it will rain within 24 hours. This is without listening to any weather forecast's and without clouds. And the most ironic thing of all? At times like these it will only rain over my house and the surrounding houses!

This would also include major decisions in my life. I will know what needs to happen and then will await the vehicle (whatever the instrument my be) to make it happen.

At times my spirit aligns with Gods reality. When that happens I know that I am connected...I can feel it. The light bulb goes off in my head and I know that I have just received something from outside myself that is divine. I can connect the dots, whereas before, I could not.

I appreciate this thread as it needed to remind me of some things...so thank you all!

[edit on 29-10-2008 by MatrixProphet]

reply to post by Alexander1111


As far as what's going on with an electron that is being "observed"...

Be careful not to take this out of context. Remember that we're talking about subatomic particles, here, and don't forget what's really going on when you "observe" something in the first place. What, after all, is observation?

Photons of light are streaming out from the sun or the lamp in your room. Some of these are reflecting off of the matter around you, while others are being absorbed as energy (i.e. heat). Ultimately a number of these photons, after bouncing around for a bit, are coming into your eyeball and exciting the "rod" and "cone" cells in there. This causes small electrical signals to be sent along your retina to your brain, where they are processed as visual information.

So, what happens when you "observe" an electron? Well, I'm honestly not sure what the preferred process is for observing electrons in this experiment, but I do have an idea of what's going on, so I'll put forth this hypothesis. Suppose you wanted to "look" at the electrons in this experiment, as one of the videos suggested with an animated mechanical eyeball. How would you see it?

Answer: You would see it the same way you see anything else. You'd bounce photons off of it. Of course you'd have to use some kind of microscope to see anything, I'm sure, but the fact remains that you can't "see" something unless that something has redirected (or emitted) a photon toward your eye.

The reason this "observation" affects the state of an electron is because electrons and photons are of a comparable size and energy. Bouncing a photon off an electron is in some ways like bouncing a marble off of another marble. You cannot bounce photons of light off an electron without altering its course / position / energy, and you cannot see the electron without bouncing light off of it; therefore, it is impossible to observe an electron without changing its state in the process.

Remember also that there are other ways of "observing" an electron. When the electrons in this experiment hit the wall on the other side of the slits, that is a form of observation, too. They are reacting with the material in the wall in such a way as to produce a pattern that is visible to the human eye. My point is, whatever process you choose to observe an electron is still going to require some kind of reaction that will, by definition, affect the electron itself.

Of course... the crazy thing about quantum mechanics is that, BEFORE you observe this electron, and thus alter its state, you'd think that it would simply have some other singular state. In other words, the electron is moving along in its one single course through space and time, minding its own business, and then you observe it, which causes it to simply change to a slightly different course through space and time. But this is not the case. Before you observe it, there are numerous possible courses it could be taking... and the crazy thing is, ALL of these possibilities are true, and also NONE of them are true, all at the same time. So instead of having simply one truth that just happens to be unknown, you actually have a situation in which all unknowns are simultaneously true (and also false)... that is, before you observe it, at which point it sets upon a singular, "known" course through space and time.

Anyway, that's about as far as I understand it. But be careful not to take this out of context. We're still talking about the subatomic scale, here. Don't assume this means you can alter the state of your computer screen just by staring at it hard enough, or that you can improve your future just by thinking really hard about winning the lottery. Many rules in quantum physics simply do not apply on a larger scale... for that, we have good ol' fashioned Newtonian physics.

Squirrel,

S & F from me, but I do have a question about your reference to Imoto's water experiment being successfully carried out 100's of times. I was most moved by that experiment when I first saw it in 'bleep' -- more so than any other part of that film -- so I went to research it and found that those experiements have never been reproduced with the same results.

Perhaps that has changed in the few years since I last looked? I did a cursory Google, just now, and am still not finding any corroborating evidence to back up your claim, and I really want you to be right about that. Can you please link to any data you have found that points to Imoto's work being sucessfully reproduced even 10's of times?

Thanks for the thread!
TWISI