Obesity: Far more deadly than eating disorders, yet increasingly socially acceptable.

reply to post by unityemissions


I agree with you, I see these 300+ pounders and I can't comprehend how they got that big. It's one thing to be slightly overweight, even moderately so, but to carry on hundereds of extra pounds? I just can't comprehend it.

That being said, I do eat small portions of fatty food, quite regularly. That is, natrually occuring fats, like nuts, eggs, penut butter. I feel sick without that.

That's good, and it brought up an "s" I forgot to mention: Serving size.

Calorie dense (but good for you) foods like trail mix can seem good but if you eat them in large portions, you'll be eating quite a bit of fat, sodium, and carbohydrates. For example, the medium sized Planter's trail mix bags are about 150 or so calories per serving and about 6 servings per bag of mix. So if you sit down and snack on a bag of trail mix between meals, you're actually injesting nearly half of the calories an adult should injest in an entire day! Isn't that crazy?

In the case of eggs, one and half eggs will set you at 100% of what your body should injest in cholesterol for a day, unless you don't eat the yolk and stick to the egg white (my recommendation).

Yes, people on the whole are uneducated about nutrition. I also feel like the farm lobby (like corn and cane sugar), as well as the big box grocers like wal-mart, only benefit from a fat America. It's the exact same thing we just went through with the bad mortgages, just a slightly different situation: the food industry is fattening us with crappy, cheap, sweet products laced with insecticides in order to keep us eating. They benefit in that they get short term profits, but they (and us) will lose greatly in the future when us and our children are by and large...too large. Healthcare in a few decades is going to be insane

reply to post by Aggie Man


Yeah, I know, just thought that since I was being honest and it could be seen as cut-throat, that I should try to speak softly in some respects. I don't mind someone who is overweight, it's just that if you can see that you are gaining weight and you do nothing about it, then it goes to the point of being obese. It's your fault and responsibility to fix that!

People naturally gain some weight in midage as their metabolism rate declines. Then they tend to lose it as they become very old. It's when you are consuming more than you burn off year after year, that it becomes a problem. I've heard a rough figure of consuming 100 calories less for every decade over the age of 30. As an example 2000 @ 30 1900 @ 40 1800 @ 50 etc. You're not going to become malnourished if you eat more nutrient dense foods..

edit for: spelling

[edit on 29-10-2008 by unityemissions]

[edit on 29-10-2008 by unityemissions]

[edit on 29-10-2008 by unityemissions]

reply to post by Avenginggecko


Well, there are already studies shoting that this generation may live shorter lives than their parents.

reply to post by Aggie Man


when i was 290 lbs i had a 34" waist. i disagree.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Aggie Man

 

when i was 290 lbs i had a 34" waist. i disagree.

Specifically, what do you disagree with? 290 and a 34 waist seems pretty fit to me. That's what I was saying, if I got you correctly here. I said "big boned" folks, if there really is such a thing, can be just as fit as the "small boned".

I never said if you were heavy then you were fat...did I I hope not.

Just to add a couple of what I consider to be clarifications:

- The "Freshman 15" definitely does have some merit... it's no rumor. But while stress from living on your own may play a small role in this, I suspect that the real reason behind the "Freshman 15" is the change in diet -- and a negative change, at that. I mean, let's be honest. I don't know about you, but when I first came to college, I didn't eat homemade chicken dinners and salad and vegetables like Mom makes. I ate pizza. I ate fast food. This wasn't because of stress, it's because I didn't know how to feed myself properly, because this was a responsibility that was unfamiliar to me.

- Trail Mix: The fact that this stuff has a ton of carbs and fats and whatever else comes as no surprise to me. Do people honestly believe this represents a healthy snack food? Trail mix is called "Trail mix" for a reason. This is the kind of stuff you eat if you're hiking along a mountain trail. It's meant to be packed with carbs and fats, because the whole point of trail mix is to give you energy during those times when plain old sandwiches three times a day just won't cut it. This is what you eat if you're putting your body through a long-term endurance test, not if you're relaxing on the sofa and looking for an alternative to Cheetos.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by Magnus47]

A few people have made reference to it, but over-eating really is a recognized eating disorder - falls under the label of Compulsive Over Eating (among other things). as I understand it, it's sort of tied to emotional eating, but on an extreme level. For whatever (assuming emotional?) reason, people literally cannot stop eating. There are also documented cases of people who "sleep-eat" - they'll eat their entire freakin' refrigerator while ASLEEP and have no idea they did it til the next morning.

Oh, please.

The obesity epidemic was created when the insurance tables [notice these weren't created by medical researchers] were lowered for what was acceptable and then, overnight, people became "obese." People weigh, on average, about ten pounds more than they did in the 1970s -- and this is likely due to the number of people who no longer smoke cigarettes.

First, there are absolutely no studies show that fat in and of itself is a health risk. Not one. In fact, there are studies which show that being 50 pounds overweight and active is better than being ideal weight or even ten pounds underweight and inactive.

There are also many studies which show that having extra weight is actually good, and losing weight is dangerous. There are significant health risks associated with dieting.

There are many, many fit and fat people. There are many, many unfit and skinny people.

If the correlation of fat = unhealthy were true, then skinny = healthy. It doesn't follow. These are cultural issues which have conditioned you into believing that thinness (usually along with a sun tan and fake white teeth) equates health. At the turn of the 20th century, most pornography featured Rubenesque models because most people were positively gaunt.

Thinness is often viewed as a virtue in this society, as if it shows willpower and self-deprivation. Stop hating people who are different than you.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Blah, just wrote a long msg and lost it when firefox crashed. Sigh. Ill try again.

First off, back a few pages I said thin is healthy, when I said that I was not suggesting or implying kate moss thin. The weight tables set out (in canada) are healthy guidelines, and at those weights most people are healthy.

ATS. What your trying to say is right, but wrong at the same time.

Being a few pounds over weight but being active will likely result is a healthy person. Being underweight and unactive will likely result in an unhealthy person, very correct.

But the assumption you made next is fundamentally wrong, and that is when you said that weight loss can be damaging to your health.

The true root of all evil in weightloss is dieting itself. Restricting ANY part of a balanced meal plan is dangerous, thus fad diets that restrict fats or carbs etc are the real problem here as they are the cause of unhealthy weight loss (which on a side note, are often very unsuccessful).

The problem is that society has been trained to fall on a fad diet instead of making real changes.

If you for one second think that a slightly overweight person, who cuts down on trans and saturated fats opting instead of real fats and omegas, then cuts out MSG, Sugars, and Artificial sweeters, and then opts for truer forms of protein such as whey and white chicken.... and as a result loses some weight is unhealthy, your out of mind.

Your absolutely correct about fat, fat itself is not the evil here at all, and infact a proper intake of fat is REQUIRED in a balanced, healthy diet. Fats such as omegas even release growth hormone after consumption which is great for building lean body mass.

Another misconception is that, people see a big person and they think wow overweight but, I believe like FurryTexan some of these people fall into a different category. My friend Tony is 6'4", and at his peak in weight training weighed 295 pounds and was absolutely shredded. His body fat percentage was very low ( I wont even try and quote the exact percent ). The key is having a lower body fat percentage, because if your overweight but you are physically strong and have a large muscle mass under a layer of fat, then I dont believe that to be unhealthy.


Also another assumption you made ATS, is that society has taught people that thin, fake teeth and a tan are healthy yada yada. I think the inverse is actually correct and thats that society is taught that being fat is wrong, and instead people begin to see the thin, and tanned is healthy.

Another thing that most people completely fail to realize is that your body is simply a machine. The more muscle you have the more energy your machine needs, so sedentary people will no muscle mass have NO problem gaining weight, where as the same person with more muscle can eat the exact same meals and gain far less weight.

To sum it up, I believe that proper weightloss in almost all cases is not only great for your body but will improve long term health. Exercise really does release endorphins, I feel great after working out, which for the record I include ZERO cardio in my workout, due to a bad knee, but also due to the fact that I do not want to be stripping calories from my body in that fashion. I simply do 45 minutes of weight training 3 times a week, and eat proper food (and I eat alooottt) and I maintain a great weight, low body fat and what society would call nice muscle tone.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


I think you're not getting what we're talking about quite on the money. Like king explained above, we're not extoling thinness as a virtue, we're pointing out the medically proven benefits and detractions of the building blocks of food.

Study after study can show you that trans fats, saturated fats, and hydrogenated oils increase the risk of certain health factors, and people who consume them in large amounts also have a higher rate of obesity. Obesity is not being a few pounds overweight, it's being grossly over what a human body should be for that age/gender/height.

Of course every human is different and there are people who don't exactly fit the mold, but there are certain staples of consumption that everyone should follow because our bodies have evolved to depend on them to maintain a form of equilibrium.

And great post king, thumbs up!

reply to post by king9072


Thanks for your reply King.

I think that many people who are chronically dieting us this as a form of attention-whoring. Their goal seems to have devolved from actually losing the weight into sustainign their status as the poor (typically) woman who just can't loose the weight no matter how hard she tries.

ANd it is very true that some people can be heavy, and healthy, because they are muscular. My brother for instance... he has to weigh about 220 pounds (he is also 6'3") which would be overweight if you were going to judge strictly by BMI... but he's just a mountain of muscle!

Originally posted by asmeone2
reply to post by king9072

 

Thanks for your reply King.

I think that many people who are chronically dieting us this as a form of attention-whoring. Their goal seems to have devolved from actually losing the weight into sustainign their status as the poor (typically) woman who just can't loose the weight no matter how hard she tries.

ANd it is very true that some people can be heavy, and healthy, because they are muscular. My brother for instance... he has to weigh about 220 pounds (he is also 6'3") which would be overweight if you were going to judge strictly by BMI... but he's just a mountain of muscle!

Right on! Have you ever noticed that a lot of the people that diet, make sue EVERYONE knows they are dieting. It's all they can talk about...not just at meal time but ALL the time. Well, I diet too, but my diet is a way of life, not a temporary change in eating habit!

[edit on 29-10-2008 by Aggie Man]

reply to post by Aggie Man


Yes, I certainly have! And also the people who go on and on about how they felt like they had to get fat to shield their emotions or something like that... they fully recognize their 'problem' but stop short of fixing it because then they would lose their claim to pity.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Fijian people have notoriously been known for being overweight/obese.
And yet their life expectancy is relatively high.
I also think it's bull that obesity kills in and of itself.
I personally think their life expectancy is high because it's culturally acceptable and therefore they don't have the added stresses of anxiety/depression and low self esteem that people in the West have foistered on them.

Fijian life expectancy....

indexmundi.com...

Info on prevalence of obesity in Fijians...

www.nature.com...

There are many cultures around the world that have a large percentage of overweight people.

I believe the reason western culture is unaccepting is because of the fashion/beauty industry that girls are exposed to early in life and the Porn industry that boys are exposed to early in life.
Neither industry portrays real everyday body images and sets these unrealistic images as the "norm" of what ALL people should look like.

Cutlures that dont have access to porn or the fashion/beauty industries seem
to be more accepting of PHYSICAL DIVERSITY.

So I guess societal acceptance must translate into greater life expectancy (aka Fijians) and maybe it's not just obesity that is killing the West but all the stress and depression/negativity that goes with it.

Instead of trying to change obese people it's maybe best to start with ones self and change our perceptions and live and let live.

reply to post by Flighty


Thanks to those who enjoyed my posts, stars work as well as thumbs up

Great post but you have clearly not read all the posts in the thread. One point you do make well is that another society who has more "overweight" people are actually just as healthy, and that right there sums up the entire thread.

The link he points out shows that its not the weight thats the biggest part of the problem, but what you ate to gain that weight. Thus, the manufactured food society that we live in, where people are practically forced (mainstream anyways) to consume garbage food, loaded with harmful ingredients and people eat it all day.

So the weight gained in north america is terrible weight, and leads to more health problems (as side effects) than those of the fijian people that eat more whole foods, but intake a lot of calories to maintain an above average weight.



"So I guess societal acceptance must translate into greater life expectancy (aka Fijians) and maybe it's not just obesity that is killing the West but all the stress and depression/negativity that goes with it."

-Though I agree society is influenced by the media on their perception of beauty, it does not change the fact that people in this country are fat because of what they eat and it creates a vicious cycle resulting in a sedentary life style. It is that, that kills them, the stress and negativity is only a small fraction of whats killing them. Bottom line, make 100% of obese people change WHAT they ate the weight reduction would be monumental, and would not require much if any exercise. For once they cut all the crap food that they eat in a day, loaded with the harmful ingredients that have been covered thousands of times in this thread, their body will just start shedding weight.

"Instead of trying to change obese people it's maybe best to start with ones self and change our perceptions and live and let live."

Great comment! But I think its them that need changing for the lifestyle they are leading clearly isn't bringing them happiness, love, and health, what is life for if you don't have that?



[edit on 30-10-2008 by king9072]

Umm yes actually, I have read all the posts in the thread. My reply also was on topic with the Title of the thread.

I could add more, but I would only be playing devils advocate.
As I agree, it would be good for people to lose weight.
But being mean and nasty to them isn't going to solve anything. Especially for the emotional eaters. It only makes it worse.

I agree totally that exercise is really important. And that's for both the overweight and us all.

Well, if things in the economy shape up to a worst case scenario, we may get a real world trial of this idea that it's great to be thin and more healthy than fat.

So if you have 10% body fat and are forced to restrict calories for a year or more, do you think you'll fare better than someone who is 20 or 30 pounds overweight? I'm assuming you won't be stockpiling food because being thin and hungry is actually healthier, right?

This is exactly why nature makes us store calories, because in the past, the food supply was inconsistent. This is why you put on weight as you get older, because you experience longer and more serious illnesses.

Fat is nothing more than stored calories. The reason that it's difficult to lose is that your body taps into them as a last resort before muscle and organs, and instead will opt to maximize the use of food calories first before turning to reserves. Fat people will likely fare a Depression better than the thin gym rats. How ironic.

And when everyone looks like a famine victim, then these same people talking about how terribly fat everyone is now will be extolling the virtues of being "big and strong" and not "thin and sickly." Watch how the descriptions will change to fat=positive, healthy and thin=negative, unhealthy.

Fat is a political issue. To be thin is to be associated with the white, privileged ruling class (more so for women then men because men can overcome fat and ugly with money -- ala Donald Trump.)

When they aren't starving and everyone else is, fat will be desirable.

Complaining about people's weight is really a way to hate the poor and certain minority groups in an acceptable manner. You can get others to agree with you that people who are different in some way are somehow "bad", which makes you feel good about yourself. It is an external measure of worthiness that the truly insecure use to prop up their own flailing ego.

Imagine applying these same criticisms to people who use hair dyes, wear eye glasses, or have crooked teeth. You wouldn't dare attack a thin person in a wheelchair because they didn't have legs (even if you knew they were severed off in a drunk driving accident), but you would be vocal about someone who was fat in a wheelchair, as if they couldn't walk because of their weight and not the other way around. It doesn't even matter WHY they are in a wheelchair, you would criticize them for simply being fat.

Do you think they do not know your contempt for them? Do you think they don't have feelings? And yet they bravely face the world every day knowing how you would spit on them if you could -- and encourage others to do the same.

It is now socially acceptable to make fun of handicapped people, blacks, mexicans, women, mentally ill, the retarded, as long as they are fat.

The fat person (even the 400 pounder in the wheelchair) isn't bothering you. Their fatness has zero impact on your life. You have no idea why they are that way, if it's a medical condition or not. You don't know if they are taking steroids for MS, you don't know if they have a lymph problem, you have no idea if they have cancer.

All you know if that they are fat and you don't like that in yourself or others. It's a vice to you, one that must be stamped out in a self-righteous manner.

I wonder if you expect such a lack of compassion for your own shortcomings. . .?

reply to post by Flighty


Thanks for your thoughts and links but I think that we are comparing apples and oranges here.

American "fat" is not the same kind of fat as a tribal or traditional "fat."

Many people from remaining traditional cultures are what we would consider "fat." For instance Inuit people tend to have very high body fat levels, because they need it in their climate. Others may eat when they can, to put on more weight that would help them survive in places where famine is likely to effect them directly.

That is entirely different than someone here who sits on the couch and binges on potato chips.

Another big difference is the type of fat consumes. What's mostly in our foots is saturated and trans fats--extremely unhealthy--wheras what the people like the Fijians are likely to eat is more natural, digestible fat.

And also, your articles did not seem to go into this, but long life does not necesarily equate healthy life.

reply to post by ColoradoJens


Ah the south, gotta have everything deep fried and smothered in gravy. I seem to recall reading that the prevalence of obesity in the south is due to a tradition of deep frying foods to increase the calorie counts. Deep frying is a fairly inexpensive way to go about that, not that it's healthy, but I recall reading that was the reason for it.