Why do you need a bank?

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posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 02:05 PM
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I am quite happy to say that i have not condemed my self or future generations to debt. I am probably one of the few americans that has not went overboard and bought useless stuff just cuz i had to have it. I only just recently got a credit card, its only a lowes card because i did not have 2000.00 to replace my water heater and bring my house up to code. This all happened last month i currently only owe 900.00 on that card. i have Paid off my car and truthfully the only debt i have is my fixed rate house loan only for 150,000.00, probably less i've lived here for about 5 years, other than that i live week to week and purchase everything out right. I on the other hand am one of thoes people that have not been to college, but was able to find a great job that pays for everything i need or would like. I am lucky very lucky, also i am not married so that helps out, no one else racking up debt. plus i am young and have a 401k thats getting up there, well not since the crappy market, i bet ive lost 5,000 so far. I feel sorry for the millions of americans that live off debt, have not job cannot find one, or that have used there retirement funds to keep afloat.

I'm sure that people will truly feel the pain of that debt when the world market collapses and people are held accountable for their debt ( there will never be a bail out for regular people) and put in work camps as slaves. only time will tell.




posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by absente
 


I do believe that Americans who have 16 credit cards are in a VERY small percentage of our population. We have one, which we use for emergencies and credit building. If it were up to me, we'd pay it off and cancel it, but my spouse and I do not agree on everything. Demand for good credit and use of credit is a vicious cycle. Inflation is high, salaries are low, costs of living are high, and you can't buy cars and houses without credit, unless you have cash. In which case, children wouldn't be leaving home until well into their thirties, if at all. I wouldn't mind that scenario, since our American culture has grown far away from the "it takes a village" mentality. They boot their children out at 18, and put their elderly parents in old folks homes because they don't have the time to return the "favor" that their parents once gave to them when they were babies. I think this has been far more detrimental in the degradation of our society than the credit system.

Just for the record, I do agree about the usage of cash only. I've long stated that we all, both here and abroad, should get entirely independent of banks and investment firms. If it means spouses sharing vehicles, or riding or walking to work, then so be it. If it means children living at home and bringing in second, third, or even fourth incomes to help stabilize the security of the family unit, then I'm for all that as well. Once the family is secure, then efforts can funnel into helping the oldest child branch out, or add on to the house, or build another structure on the property...whatever suits the family. There are so many better ways to get around this economic "crisis", which really isn't a crisis for most. Yes, people are losing jobs, people are losing investments and retirement funds, and house values are dropping like mad. But I'm inclined to believe that the crisis is not with us nearly as much as it is with the Bank CEO's. And while it does trickle down into our everyday lives, I can live without banks, just like I can live without TV and cell phones and internet if I have to. Life may actually start to have some meaning if that were to happen, and maybe people will slow down long enough to realize that money doesn't rule their world, unless they choose to let it.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by JipStix

I'm $20,000 in debt for my college education, and 2 months out of school that seems like an insurmountable number. This whole system is decrepit


It may seem that way, but its not. Please don't feel picked on here, but you opened a door.

Credit can be positive or negative, depending on the user and how its controlled.

That $20,000, if it garnered you a Masters Degree, is the best investment you will ever make. This recession won't last long, don't let the gloom and doom crowd get you down. Positive people will survive this much better than the negative bunch.

With a Masters Degree, you can expect to recover that entire amount your first year. Without that degree you could expect a job that pays minimum wage or not much better. With the degree, you can expect a starting wage of $38,000 or more. Even if this recession delays you a year or two, the upside is still good. Ten years into your career you can expect to make 4 to 5 times what you would make had you not got that degree. Its hard to find a negative when your first year you can make more in extra income than the entire cost of your education. Look at the big picture.

People don't need to eliminate credit from their lives, they need to use it responsibly. Of course people who lied on their mortgage application, or abused their credit cards are looking to blame the system for their own mistakes. It is human nature to spin the truth when it makes us look bad. That does not change the fact that people who get into trouble with credit, do it to themselves. Blaming others for their own mistakes just makes matters worse. The Banks and those who lied on their mortgage applications, share equal blame. They both knew they were doing wrong. They both knew that the payment would not be made.

Credit and I mean good credit are an absolute requirement to succeed. In the long run, credit used wisely can increase your wealth. Not having good credit can likewise ruin your financial lives.

Without good credit, unless you were born rich, you can not:

Buy a house.
Buy a new car.
Start a business.
Get a decent education.
Take advantage of investment opportunities.

With this topic, as with most others, the truth lies in the middle. Credit is not evil. Some people are just credit stupid.

To those who think you have it bad in the US. Go to a third world mess like Mexico. Leave the tourist areas and go to a remote village and stay for a while. When you return, you will have a new found respect for what we enjoy. There is a reason so many are trying to move here. Ignore the wild theories you read here. We are not even close to collapse. Two years from now this downturn will be a footnote in the history books.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 02:22 PM
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Outstanding post!!!! Sometimes I'm ashamed of my peers for the way they live. (I'm an American.)

My ex-wife was the pit of all evil. She ran up all the cards to keep up with the Jones'. It was insane and I had to divorce her because of it. I knew the day would come when all this credit would come to an end. I divorced her and paid everything off.

I operate on cash only now and I have perfect credit scores. I'm proud to not use cedit and I agree it is true freedom when you don't.

Unfortunatly, my ex-wife tapped most of the equity out of our house (which was half paid for when I met her)... to buy stuff. We divorced in 2004 and I figured that over time I would build my equity again. Now here I am upside down on my house because of her, years ago... It's sad but that is the one area I'm not free. I can't do anything but make my house payments (30 year fixed at least) and wait. Sucks! She was the typical moron that contributed to this whole mess. And I say screw you to anyone who blames the lender for this mess. Give me a break.
If I walk into a bar an say, "Hey loan me $20." and you do. And then I say, "hmmm... I can't really pay you back." and you kick my ass for it.... well I deserved it. I wouldn't blame the lender. People should know better. Period.

And for anyone who says what some of my friends said to me back when I was married, "Why don't just put your foot down with your wife?". Um... how exactly does one do that? I cut up the cards... she just got more. She didn't care if she ran us into the ground. Marraige can be a dangerous thing with someone with no ethics. I blame myself for marrying her though.

I only had one option and that's what I did. Divorce. It cost me everything I had and had to start all over at 37 years old, but at least I'm free.

By the way, she is about $40k in debt now (on cards in JUST THREE YEARS), and upside down on her new house (that was paid out of divorce monies that I gave her). It's just a matter of time until she goes under.

Good post. I gave you a star!

Jon


I edited to add this:

I'm sure she won't go under because the "boo hoo hoo, poor me" club will save her under the leadership of Barak Hussain Obama and his socialist policies!!! And once more will she F**K me via taking my taxes to bail her a** out along with all the other morons!

[edit on 15-10-2008 by JonInMichigan]



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by JonInMichigan
Outstanding post!!!! Sometimes I'm ashamed of my peers for the way they live. (I'm an American.)

My ex-wife was the pit of all evil. She ran up all the cards to keep up with the Jones'. It was insane and I had to divorce her because of it. I knew the day would come when all this credit would come to an end. I divorced her and paid everything off.

I operate on cash only now and I have perfect credit scores. I'm proud to not use cedit and I agree it is true freedom when you don't.

Unfortunatly, my ex-wife tapped most of the equity out of our house (which was half paid for when I met her)... to buy stuff. We divorced in 2004 and I figured that over time I would build my equity again. Now here I am upside down on my house because of her, years ago... It's sad but that is the one area I'm not free. I can't do anything but make my house payments (30 year fixed at least) and wait. Sucks! She was the typical moron that contributed to this whole mess. And I say screw you to anyone who blames the lender for this mess. Give me a break.
If I walk into a bar an say, "Hey loan me $20." and you do. And then I say, "hmmm... I can't really pay you back." and you kick my ass for it.... well I deserved it. I wouldn't blame the lender. People should know better. Period.

And for anyone who says what some of my friends said to me back when I was married, "Why don't just put your foot down with your wife?". Um... how exactly does one do that? I cut up the cards... she just got more. She didn't care if she ran us into the ground. Marraige can be a dangerous thing with someone with no ethics. I blame myself for marrying her though.

I only had one option and that's what I did. Divorce. It cost me everything I had and had to start all over at 37 years old, but at least I'm free.

By the way, she is about $40k in debt now (on cards in JUST THREE YEARS), and upside down on her new house (that was paid out of divorce monies that I gave her). It's just a matter of time until she goes under.

Good post. I gave you a star!

Jon


I edited to add this:

I'm sure she won't go under because the "boo hoo hoo, poor me" club will save her under the leadership of Barak Hussain Obama and his socialist policies!!! And once more will she F**K me via taking my taxes to bail her a** out along with all the other morons!

[edit on 15-10-2008 by JonInMichigan]


probably not, she will be like most the other breeders out there too lazy to do work for anything , ill bet she finds the bbd, ( i hope you dont have kids ) she will probably get knocked up and depend on her sugar daddy for support. or the government to tell said daddy to pay for lifestyle after 2nd divorce.

you know 20 years a go you really would not have taken in to account the debt someone had created for themselves, now days that one of the things i look at when thinking about a wife. I will not take on 40,000.00 of debt for anyone, especially if they personally dont care.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by absente
 


Yes all of what you said there is accurate. I won't give you the credit for the statement but your boldness is completely welcome. Your frustration is apparent and I think that comes through more than anything.I'm wondering who will say though what we have resigned only to thought, that we need to be organized and ready. Everyone claims to be waking up...but I wonder if its real. I think everyone myself included is waiting to either feel like a fool when nothing happens (even though it's happening now.) or to be awestruck by our own inferiority thus allowing anything to go down. I'm serious, we're telling one another to jump off the grid but do we realize the implications.I'm Canadian and I'll say it. Get your Guns!



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by osirus82
 


We do have kids. (2) I pay her $1400 a month in child support. Nice huh? Michigan is a no-fault state. Don't get divorced here.

I want my kids to be taken care of so I pay it faithfully every month on time. I also take the kids 1/2 of the week every week. I didn't get screwed either. It's just what they expect me to pay in this state based on our incomes and income earning potential. She uses most of the money I give her to pay her debt, no doubt. But let's not get off topic.

The only point I was trying to make is. I know first hand how people are approaching credit and debt and I know how I was raised. Cash unless you have an emergency, then have a good credit rating. That was what credit used to be for. So I agree with the OP.

As far as the one poster who said, unless you're born rich you can't get a car, etc etc etc.

Yeah...no duh. That's exactly right. You have to save for one. I know you must be younger and have no concept of doing without, but that is the way it's always been in this country. You worked your way up.

Every kid now expects to have a car, a house, etc.

Two twenty-five year olds marry and they need to sell one of their houses. That was unheard of in my parent's time!!!!

They rented or lived with their parents and saved and when they got married they bought their very small modest house together.
The MSM has been eating your brain with all this EVERYONE IS A ROCK STAR mentallity.

We are doomed.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 03:07 PM
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Excellent thread George. A star and a Flag for you Sir.

A little story of my own. I remember a few months back when a friend of mine happily announced how tomorrow is payday as she was in so much debt that she almost breached her limit again. So, I laughed at her. And then another friedns said the same thing, that she was also about to breach her limit. And than, another person after her said the same thing. So three out of four people at our table were less then broke.

As it was obviously my turn to say something, I did. I said I haven't been below zero on my bank account in more than 12 years. Everyone started laughing and I was considered to be the weird one.

Currently I own everything I have, except for 17% of my car, which was a strange thing to do but i did it. The company gave me 3 years extended waranty and an additional 10% discount only because I took a credit contract with them. But being as I am, I always keep enough cash on me to repay the entire debt should I ever need to.

My humble regards.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 03:12 PM
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speaking from a personal perspective, we are not screwd but thoes rockstar people living the lifestyle on debt and expecting eveything on a silver platter with a side of orga$m definately are in for a rude awakening the shtf for real.

I personally grew up in a poor family in nebraska, 3 brothers, never met my father, he never paid childsupport, my mom's had to work 2 jobs, i hardly ever saw her. We were poor, poor enough that the people in the town we lived had the police deliver christmas presants too us. I was working as a babysitte when i was 13 and in the summers i would rouge and detassle corn until my family moved to colorado, i have been the dish washer working 6hr a week, ive worked nursing homes, convience store stooge, and worked my way up the ladder. when you grow up like that you realize what money is acutally worth, the kids these days that take for granted what they got and have their parents foot the bill for everything have no idea of what the true value of a good/responsible decision is. personally i wish the best for all people, but some people just dont deserve what they have. I have worked for every cent i have spent, and im grateful that i have a job that lets me pay my bills and live comfortable out of bad debt.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 03:26 PM
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OP I like your post.

If all people without any debts would stop their bank account and demand their work/social security/whatever to pay them cash.

the banks wouldn't receive that money every month (though it is sad you still have to pay some bills through bank transactions) and the banks could never loan out as much as they have done now I think.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by osirus82
 


Being from humble beginnings myslef, I totally understand. I worked full time to pay for college I went to full time. Now I have a masters degree in electrical engineering and a 6 figure income. My dad was blue-collar all the way and achived the american dream by having a child do better than him. I wanted to quit. I got two hours of sleep a night between a full load of classes and working full time to pay for the classes.

Now I'm looking down the barrel of a gun heald by a presidential candidate who is winning in the polls and believes that it is "fair" to take from those who have and give it to those who maybe didn't work so hard to get ahead (wow - that has to be the most polite way I have ever described that demographic). Someone I work with thought that seemed heartless. Well, I adopted two kids from the state "system" and gave them a home since they were babies. Am I heartless or do I just choose to do charity in my own way, on my own terms. Taking taxes from me to bail out dumb a$$sses and the companies that loan money to them takes away from my ability to support these two humans that I have taken on.

It's not fair. It's socialism. Robin Hood was only a romantic hero when I was a kid. Once you work for what you have, Robin Hood becomes the devil. And that devil was born in Kenya and can't even produce a birth certificate that looks real!!!!

Sorry - this topic is semi political but outside the politics portion of ATS. Sorry.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 04:11 PM
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I always believed this, but when I was a bit younger an was starting to feel quite confident about my earning power I starting thinking about the things I wanted but couldn't yet afford and how every one around me had all this nice stuff just because they decided they were going to pay it off over a period of time.... I knew well enough that it was a trap... but I thought maybe just one or two things, like a nice car and good computer.
Well, I didn't. I got a credit card and promised myself I would only spend off it what I had already put on it before hand. That means before I even use it I have to transfer some funds into it. The balance never drops below zero and I don't use it like a credit card at all. It's more like a spending account that pays no interest, is very versatile and generates a credit rating. I upgraded to a gold card for the free travel insurance and all it took was a 5 minute meeting. I had to tell them to give me the minimum limit.
Another thing that has really worked for me is keeping a spreadsheet for budgeting. I enter in the amount of income I have received and it splits it into percentages for me, giving me say 5.3% to pay the phone bill and 12.7% to pay the power bill and so on and so forth. I have a wife and two children, I'm the sole bread winner and working in a first level helpdesk call centre (lowest of the low in the IT world) and I can save at least $100 per week and I have a $50 auto payment going to diversified funds every two weeks. We have a lot of good food in our house and keep two vehicles on the road, and my wife takes our two little ones to music classes on Wednesday, Japanese play group on Friday and I take my daughter to swimming lessons on Saturday. We have so much on such a small income because the debt trap didn’t catch me and I know about every $0.01 that comes and goes.
It is easy... If it's what you want, just do it.
You're infront of a computer reading this, so start right now.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 04:15 PM
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The founding fathers conceived of the U.S. Treasury that would be a publicly-owned bank that did not charge interest for loans.

The Rothschild/Rockefellor/Vatican/City of London/Warburg financial terrorism & coup d'tat of a privately owned central bank that charges interest and uses fractional banking is what has destroyed America.

There is nothing wrong with borrowing and credit so long as there is no interest charged.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 04:29 PM
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Absolutely agree with the OP. I'm only in my mid 20's but I have lived my life debt free to date and have always gone by the saying 'if I don't have the cash, I can't afford it'. I don't have a credit card, but my partner does have 1. It is sometimes hard to make internet purchases without one, which is why we have it. BUT, a great idea is to have a low limit on the card, in our case we have a $1000 limit, which is more of a security thing than anything. Even with our 1 card, we never put anything on credit if we don't have the cash to pay it off immediately. Great thread



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by absente
 


Really...you bought a house without any loan? You guys must have real cheap housing. I think it would be pretty hard to save up 100,000 dollars for a house.

Say I take all my excess money, and save it for a 1000 dollar tv. Say it takes 6 months to save that up. You know how long it would take for a cheap house in this country? 25 years. If you are 25, you won't own a house till you are 50 years old.

So how do you go about getting a house in this country?

I don't say vehicles because you can usually get one used without credit if you aren't in an emergency.

Let us move onto emergency situations. Lets say your car breaks down. Total costs, 1200 dollars. Maybe you just had something happen where you had to use up 1000 of the last 1600 you have in the bank. You now have 600 dollars in the bank.

How are you going to raise 600 dollars without a vehicle to get to work? You need money NOW, not in a couple months. In a couple months you will be starving and unemployed.

Stop blaming credit. Credit isn't the devil. Stupidity is, and when you combine stupidity and a credit card, you get the average american.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 05:00 PM
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I do the same, no credit at all. Im latinamerican but i study in the US and i cant believe i was about getting a credit card there.. They had a really nice deal lol.. I just decided not to cuz as George says, It's better to own your things, you can sure enjoy them a lot more that way.



I have no debts


-edit-

I forgot to say im new here. this post made me register in the site


[edit on 15-10-2008 by aNdReSk]



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by absente
 


well, I agree with almost everything but a statement you made, did you say global crisis wont affect you?... because if it doenst then you just live of the earth and you dont need money to go to the store and buy food because a global market crisis will do exactly that , raise all price of food... wont affect you ? think again... Again Price Raise as BEST CASE Scenario , FOOD SHORTAGE being worst ..wont affect you if you have your own place to grow crops....

Of course another thing is , to my belief most people that Come to ATS are smart enough not to live on credit , I dont own a single credit card myself , BANKS IS THE BIGGEST SCAM YET.

ITS JUST PLAIN LOGICAL LIVE BY YOUR MEAN JUST LIKE GEORGE SAID.
The problem I think it is that Math is so weak in the US that people dont realize what it means to be in the negative side...I can tell I live in the US and math that they teach in school is so much wearker than in many other places even in the caribean math is better taught.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by Awakened_One
well, I agree with almost everything but a statement you made, did you say global crisis wont affect you?... because if it doenst then you just live of the earth and you dont need money to go to the store and buy food because a global market crisis will do exactly that , raise all price of food... wont affect you ? think again... Again Price Raise as BEST CASE Scenario , FOOD SHORTAGE being worst ..wont affect you if you have your own place to grow crops....


That cant happen in LatinAmerica since we dont import most of our food as far as I know.. 1 pound of steak is 2 dollars here in a supermarket and it's as civilizated as an american one.

hehe actually i've seen many americans and europeans moving down here (they even sold their properties back there) cause they are afraid of the crisis. I hope the do well here and dont pay attention to the credit system that barely somebody does here (comparing to the US)



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by BASSPLYR
Have credit cards, but I don't use them so my credit score is in the crapper because of that. weird how if you don't use credit you get a bad credit score.


Isn't that just ridiculous? I suppose it's part of the scam to pull people in. Lure them in with the promise of earning a good credit score.

Last time I needed a loan, when I purchased my car, I was fortunate to be dealing with the same credit union I had gotten my first car loan from. The woman who worked with me to sort out the details was the same one that helped me the first time, and she has done business with my parents. If it hadn't been for that connection, and possibly that credit union, I may have had a hard time getting a loan with a tolerable interest rate. And all because I don't use credit cards and therefore have a questionable credit history. The woman who helped me said my rating was fine, but the history was what would cause concern for most lenders.

But after all that something just doesn't make sense for me. I pay my rent and utility bills on time every month, I have never had a negative balance on my checking account, and I've paid my previous loans (car and school) off waaaaay faster than I was required to. Wouldn't that amount to a good credit situation when I need a loan, as opposed to the person who has $30,000 of borrowed credit racked up already and shows little if any trend of it decreasing? Oh wait, of course not! This is all about INCREASING that number, not helping those who work around it.


The woman from the credit union said that I could probably do some good on my credit situation if I was to get a card from the local supermarket chain store, charge my purchases to that, and then pay it off right away. Tempting, I'll admit, but it flies in the face of my whole cash instead of credit way of operating.

Credit cards, debt, credit...it's all a big business.

Step One - Make credit cards and spending money seem cool.
Step Two - Offer great deals with low or zero interest for a period of time (fine print: but then charge an arm and a leg if the balance isn't paid in that period)
Step Three - Make lots of demanding phone calls for late payments.
Step Four - Profit!



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by aNdReSk
 


yeah your definetly right about latin american , I am dominican, thing is life its hard there .... what I mean is this, If things get bad here in the US well things are gona look even worst pretty much every where else because the dollar is the base of the entire world monetary system, believe me if a crash happens it will affect there even if its just the prices on food,...

now that i think about it latin american is great because hurricanes dont affect the crops like what happend in CUBA, there is a food Shortage because of the two Huricane that passed by this year i cant recall the name of both storms right now...

anyways, i got friends from Ecuador and they say things are rough over there and i take their words..






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