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American Patriotism Terrifies me!!

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posted on Oct, 23 2008 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by SideWynder
 


I do not disagree with what you are saying. It is the more radical posters that seem to think that gun ownership is all there is to defending yourself and being a patriotic American. I would just like to know where they draw that line but everytime I ask it gets deleted. I am not at all advocating for gun control or any other restrictions. I am asking about where the limits should be but more importantly, like you, I see many other rights being stripped while they reassure everyone that they can keep their guns and that seems to pacify. I think it is scary that anyone would trade almost every right they have as long as they get to keep their guns. What are you going to defend?




posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 03:20 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 12:32 PM
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Can someone please post a list of what parts of American Patriotitsm we can talk about and what we cannot. How about a list of what about gun ownership is allowed and what is not. This thread is going to be nothing but post removed stickers. Why is this thread being censored more carefully than 9/11 threads are? Why is stuff being removed that does not attack another poster, is not a lie, does not violate the TOS? What exactly are we allowed to discuss in this thread because so far patriotism and gunownership seem to be off the table.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by Tiamanicus
Can someone please post a list of what parts of American Patriotitsm we can talk about and what we cannot. How about a list of what about gun ownership is allowed and what is not.


How about you talk about it then? Because this....



This thread is going to be nothing but post removed stickers. Why is this thread being censored more carefully than 9/11 threads are? Why is stuff being removed that does not attack another poster, is not a lie, does not violate the TOS? What exactly are we allowed to discuss in this thread because so far patriotism and gunownership seem to be off the table.



Is nothing to do with the topic, has no place in this thread, and is drama for the sake of it.

The topic is "American Patriotism Terrifies me", and anything to do with that is fair game. Anything else - particularly peoples attempts to to disrupt the forum is off topic. Its really that simple, and its the last time I'm going to explain it. If you can't understand that, or want to be spectacularly obtuse over it, don't post.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by neformore
 


Seems pretty on topic to me since it refers to another particular post that was ONLY about patriotism and guns and it got swept away with the two above it. So...since I have seen a post that was entirely about gun ownership, patriotism, and how they relate deleted. And then my questioning why that was deleted is deleted. Then...yeah, I would have to say I am a little confused as to what is acceptable as on topic. I see the words, I understand what they mean, but watching this board and the actions taken by mods so far...kinda nulls them. But hey, I get it. This thread is being more heavily moderated than any I have ever been on. I guess we cannot have anyone expressing a thought or idea here in a thread about American Patriotism. I mean, even if it is on topic and within the TOS, we cannot just have people saying whatever they like. It apparently must support one specific ideal. That is patriotic!



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by Tiamanicus
Seems pretty on topic to me since it refers to another particular post that was ONLY about patriotism and guns and it got swept away with the two above it. So...since I have seen a post that was entirely about gun ownership, patriotism, and how they relate deleted. And then my questioning why that was deleted is deleted.


I don't know the circumstances of the Off topic'ed post, but I can assure you that the post wondering why is Off Topic.

Also, keep in mind, that this thread is 36 pages long. The topic has been kind of lost and people tend to start segueing very discreetly into their opinions and associations rather than continue along with an objective presentation of their perspective regarding the initial topic.


Originally posted by Tiamanicus
This thread is being more heavily moderated than any I have ever been on. I guess we cannot have anyone expressing a thought or idea here in a thread about American Patriotism. I mean, even if it is on topic and within the TOS, we cannot just have people saying whatever they like. It apparently must support one specific ideal. That is patriotic!


With all due respect, the above paragraph is tongue in cheek and sarcastic. Of course people may speak their opinion. Of course people can express American patriotism. What should be stated is that people's interpretation and presentation of what exactly patriotism constitutes will vary. Some will take a gung ho attitude and denigrate every other nationality. Others will take an interest in domestic issues as it pertains to their fellow citizens.

That said, their is a complaint feature located on the left side of the MemCenter page (tab up top of this page). Please utilize it if you would like to continue this conversation with the entirety of Staff and let's give this thread a chance to get back on track.

Thank you.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 


Then I suggest that you get in touch with Nefermore and ask why the post about patriotism and guns was removed. That is my point now. Yes it was sarcastic. Because I read 3 posts. Two were removed justifiably. One was exactly on topic. Yet, it seems mods just remove stuff based on feelings or personal grudges more than relevance to the thread.

So in response, yes. In a thread about American patriotism, when I see a post about patriotism with NO TOS VIOLATIONS WHATSOEVER get removed for no reason...well I cannot help but find that saddly ironic and a little more than disturbing.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by Tiamanicus
 


I am unclear as to why the post you are referring to was removed. I am positive there was a reason (when was the last time you went through the Terms and Conditions thoroughly?)...

However, if you think there is some bias happening, perhaps you could go back through this thread and find examples of similar opinions to the removed post that are still standing....clearly, we are not talking about censorship as the very idea would be contradicted by the many differing posts in this thread alone.

I would like for this to be resolved, as we are currently derailing a thread. Please u2u me with your specific example of a deleted post that wasn't in violation (paraphrasing works in this case) and we can begin an actual communication.

Thank you.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 07:08 PM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 


Any post on this thread that is only about patriotism and/or gun ownership. That is what it looked like. Either remove every post that is about patriotism and how it is related to gun ownership, or ask Nefermore to clear it up for you. Yes, I do think there is a great deal of bias. I also know that saying it in a thread means that this post will be removed and that there is a good chance that my ISP will be banned very shortly as well simply in response to this post. So, yeah, I will stick with bias. I cannot any more clearly explain to you how on topic it was. It was about the 2nd ammendmant and its relationship to patriotism.

Like I said before, someone knows why they removed it and I bet that someone knows why the poster was banned shortly afterward.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 


My appologies, I thought that this conversation that A MOD was engaging me in was off topic so I tried to U2U you to get it out of the thread where it clearly did not belong. So, I get flamed for that too. Ok, I cant go off topic here, but I cannot really post on topic either as those get removed too, and if a mod wants to have an off topic conversation, I am rude for taking it private. Gotcha! The only reason I am even still responding in this thread is to the person addressing me. I am pretty done with this.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by Tiamanicus
 


Seems this arguing is classic American patriotism...


Question: How did this thread, which was over with on like the tenth page imo, turn into a MOD/Member Royal Rumble...


Seriously...if you want to post about a derisive topic such as patriotism (how many nations are there in this world and how many people feel strongly about their nation?) and guns without any risk of reprisal...I think 4chan allows pretty much anything and everything.

If you would rather not being flamed or keeping a thought process going from post to post...this place ain't so bad....


Nice try though, MS and Tiamanicus...though I am bored now...


On topic: Middle state American patriotism scares the living hell out of me. Shooting guns off into the night for the 4th of July?...sheesh. Seems like they are just looking for accidents. And the whole religious deal in the same states? Holy crap!



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 07:47 AM
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reply to post by TrustMeIKnow
 


I'm with you on the religion stance. God and Patriotism / boredeline nationalism also seem inextricably intertwined in some parts of America.

Bush's references to God are interesting, you would expect such a diverse country like America would have a secular office.

So does being an American Muslim / Hindu mean you are not a Patriot?



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 07:59 AM
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reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman
 


Bush did claim that God directed him. How will we ever move on with a president without a direct line?



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 08:07 AM
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Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by TrustMeIKnow
 


I'm with you on the religion stance. God and Patriotism / boredeline nationalism also seem inextricably intertwined in some parts of America.

Bush's references to God are interesting, you would expect such a diverse country like America would have a secular office.

So does being an American Muslim / Hindu mean you are not a Patriot?


America's take on Christianity is really odd to me. I don't think there's anywhere in the Western world that likes to merge it all together like America - particularly given the fact that America was one of those rare places to start with a clean slate and keep religion and politics separate.

Sometimes, it comes across as a little arrogant to me when patriotism is espoused with a Christian flavour. Often - perhaps unintentionally - it sounds like somehow the Christian God somehow favours America; as if God personally endorses America above everywhere else and he's theirs. I've often wondered whether this was connected to the belief that some American Protestants have regarding Catholicism not actually being Christian.



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 09:14 AM
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as if God personally endorses America above everywhere else and he's theirs.


wow that is an interesting take on that subject, I never thought of it that way before,

Manifest Destiny

that would make a good topic.

[edit on 093131p://bSunday2008 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 09:29 AM
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One might say the gods throughout the ages put in power who they chose to put in power, and that people were created with the exact mindset to worship or fight for their gods or ideologies,

Keeping in mind once man did think of his great kings as gods
www.spectator.co.uk...

Is love of country a part of this innate desire to worship?
en.wikipedia.org...

Survival and the tribe,

there are a lot of post so this may have been brought up,

but think of any county as a huge tribe, and how we are naturally going to fight and protect the tribe.

Even the OP will, maybe it would be just to protect your home from something you would deem a threat.

It is all very natural.



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by Merriman Weir
 


How dare you suggest that God does not personally endorse the good ol' US of A above all else. That is the prevailing attitude that I hear from the remaining Bush appologists. That is the impression that I have been given over the last 8 years. If you do not believe that God thinks the USA is better than any other country, you are anti-american!



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman
 


originaly posted by Thebudweiserstuntman.
"So does being an American Muslim / Hindu mean you are not a Patriot?"

That is a very interesting question, and one that I cannot answer, but I would like to know myself..As I believe patriotism is a personal feeling..

Personally, I do not see why you could not be patriotic, no matter what your religion, or non religion.(no offense just ignorant on how to try to encompass everyone)

My understanding of seperation of church and state, is not a suspension of your religious beliefs while in office.. It was meant more that the Government cannot limit your religious beliefs, nor could the "church" control government offices..



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by SideWynder
reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman
 


My understanding of seperation of church and state, is not a suspension of your religious beliefs while in office.. It was meant more that the Government cannot limit your religious beliefs, nor could the "church" control government offices..


This is what the First Amendment states:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Strictly interpreted, this does not mean we must check our religion at the door when we enter political office, we just are not allowed to force ours on others.

Many people have a problem with the current presidential candidates because of their religious beliefs, but this is wrong headedness. Their religious beliefs are irrelevant.



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by DisgustedOne

Many people have a problem with the current presidential candidates because of their religious beliefs, but this is wrong headedness. Their religious beliefs are irrelevant.



Was there a box that you got to check to stop your tax dollars from funding "faith-based initiatives?"


I was forced to pay for G.W.Bush's misguied attempt at Christian Doctrine for 8 years now so DO NOT tell us their religion is irrelevent. It may not specifically say check your faith at the door but anyone that does not see how it is only detrimental to both to let them mingle obviously could care less about preserving either the church or the state.



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