American Patriotism Terrifies me!!

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posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by DisgustedOne
 


(Originaly posted by DisgustedOne....)
"Strictly interpreted, this does not mean we must check our religion at the door when we enter political office, we just are not allowed to force ours on others."

Thank you for either substantiating my point or trying to argue my understanding of this ammendment ... you have posted what actually is written.. I just tried to post my understanding of what is stated... And the way I read your post you do agree with my understanding of it...Again,,, thank you...

I do however have a small problem with the following part of your post... that being the last part of it..Here it is in full.. and I will copy and explain my problem with the part I do disagree with..

{The following was originally posted by ThedisgustedOne....}

"Many people have a problem with the current presidential candidates because of their religious beliefs, but this is wrong headedness. Their religious beliefs are irrelevant. "

I congradgulate you on your openmindedness, and the only part of your post that I do disagree with is the part that states that thier "religious beliefs are irrelevant"

I am not "flaming you" but. I will give you the benefit of the doubt, that what you were trying to say was... No matter thier religious beliefs.. it would not matter, or interfere as far as thier elected positions were concerned...This (if I am correct) does not bother me..

But the way you posted it.. I can not agree that thier religious beliefs are irrelevent..Yes, as far as I am concerned thier religious beliefs actually do not influence thier patriotism.. and if that is what you ARE trying to say... I do understand that... and agree with it whole heartedly...

Please respond, and let me know if I have misinterpreted your post... because I think that the OP "Thebudweiserstuntman" might actually enjoy and find your post informative..., so in other words please clarify your post... so that the OP does not interpritet in the wrong manner...

[edit on 27-10-2008 by SideWynder]

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posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 12:38 AM
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reply to post by jackal17
 


To reply to your post,, even though obviously you do not have the same faith as "GWB" and you think that he and his administration are "Faith based"..

What exactly, does this have to do with being an "AMERICAN PATRIOT" (not "yelling".. just embolding the original threadline. "Partialy") So therfore what you are saying is, if you belive in the "Christian God" you should not be allowed to hold "office"???or be able to be "Patriotic" to you Country""",, or have access to your 1st ammendment rights or any of them???

Just asking, because of the way your post was worded, and the way it was written.. I am a bit confused...that is all. Please do not get upset. because I would like you to expound on your reasoning is all..



[edit on 27-10-2008 by SideWynder]

[edit on 27-10-2008 by SideWynder] sorry people, I am tired and my "oratory" skills are very impaired this evening

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posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 01:02 AM
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reply to post by MorningStar8741
 


I had typed a huge reply to MORNIGSTAR.. and Just found out that He/she/or other/ was banned..don't know why.. but just thought I would share this with y'all as it has happened before it registered on ATS Profiles...

yes, read this quick because I do understand that this is an "off topic post" IE as far as I am not contributing to the current "topic" of this thread... but in my most humble opinion..I am relating important information about an individual that was contributing on a regular basis to this thread...

so now MODS it is up to you if this post should be deleted or not.. either way I will not "harp" on what you decide to do... my word, and "garuntee"!!!!"SIDEWYNDER"

[edit on 27-10-2008 by SideWynder]

[edit on 27-10-2008 by SideWynder]

[edit on 27-10-2008 by SideWynder]edit due to multiple spelling errors,

[edit on 27-10-2008 by SideWynder] {garuntee was misspelled on purpose}LOL

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posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 01:17 AM
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reply to post by SideWynder
 


Do you not know what "Faith Based initiatives" are?

You seem to have a clear lack of understanding as to what it is I am speaking about. Perhaps you are ill prepared for this discussion.



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by SideWynder
reply to post by MorningStar8741
 


I had typed a huge reply to MORNIGSTAR.. and Just found out that He/she/or other/ was banned..don't know why.. but just thought I would share this with y'all as it has happened before it registered on ATS Profiles...

yes, read this quick because I do understand that this is an "off topic post" IE as far as I am not contributing to the current "topic" of this thread... but in my most humble opinion..I am relating important information about an individual that was contributing on a regular bassis to this thread...

so now MODS it is up to you if this post should be deleted or not.. either way I will not "harp" on what you decide to do... my word, and "garuntee"!!!!"SIDEWYNDER"

[edit on 27-10-2008 by SideWynder]

[edit on 27-10-2008 by SideWynder]

[edit on 27-10-2008 by SideWynder]


um......what important information are you sharing. This is an entire post about something that will be said but is not?



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 01:33 AM
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reply to post by Tiamanicus
 


Actually, that was why I posted what I did,, and that was for clarification.. I did say that I was not "flaming you" I just wanted clarification for my own "enlightenment" and also for how this pertained to the Oringinal post..
However, I did reply to Jackal, and that post was to him/ her/ or whatever..

But in response to Tiamanicus
Please Sir or Ma'am I am not being disrespectfull to you I am actually interested in your opinion..I just kind of got a bit lost on your last thread and how it realates to "AMERICAN PATRIOTISM" is all.. no offense meant and I would like to "listen" IE Read whatever you have to post about this...

[edit on 27-10-2008 by SideWynder]



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 01:43 AM
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reply to post by Tiamanicus
 

Originally posted by Tiamanicus
"Do you not know what "Faith Based initiatives" are?

You seem to have a clear lack of understanding as to what it is I am speaking about. Perhaps you are ill prepared for this discussion."

Actually, not to sound "ignorant" but yes you are correct. I do not fully understand "faith based initiatives" as far as they are pertanent in this thread...

and yes I do have a lack of understanding as to what you are speaking about.. therefore that is why I asked for you to give me a clearer understanding of your point..

And, also I will be the first to agree with you that I am very ill prepared for this discussion.. but please at least give me a chance to to either fall on my face arguing with you. or come to agree with your point of view...

[edit on 27-10-2008 by SideWynder]

[edit on 27-10-2008 by SideWynder]



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by SideWynder
 


Well, they are the programs that G.W. has funded with tax dollars that are directed by the religious right. The name "FAITH BASED" should be a clue. Things such as abstinence only programs that worked so well for Sarah Palin's daughter, were taught in the name of the Christian god and funded with our tax dollars. Please take some time and do a little search on the "Faith Based initiatives" that have been pushed in the last 8 years.

Do you really think that it is ok for a president to push through programs funded by everyone that specifically push his religious agenda?

Let me appologize for my tone. Aside from the fact that I am not very polite anyway, I was (and am still a bit) stunned that in 2008 anyone could have still not heard of these programs under that title. Sorry, I just could not imagine that you really did not know and assumed you were just being an ass.

good place to start

[edit on 27/10/08 by Tiamanicus]



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 02:27 AM
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reply to post by Tiamanicus
 


I actually do not get into politics online alot, this thread was about "American Patriotism" and how it "Terrifies" the Original poster...
then this thread degenerated into an argument about the 2nd ammendment and a bunch of "gun nuts" and "anti gun activists"

so when you replied to my post and stated something about religion, I just did not want this thread to get derailed again... but I do thank you for your link,, and if you would like , maybe we can start another thread about faith, religion, and how it applies to American politics.. but as far as this thread is concerned, it would be relevent if you could explain how religion (in your opinion) corresponds to the original post of this thread..

Not to be rude, or dissrespectful, but i have been a part of this thread and I have read every single post on this thread since it has started..

again, not to be rude but please, read all 37 pages of this thread and then post your reply as to how GWB and his religious Zealousness pertains to "American Patriotism" and how it should or should not be "terrifying" to the Original poster...

also I do not have enough points to u2u, but I am serious about starting a thread about religious beliefs and the effect they have in and on political offices... ,we are not so differant in our beliefs.. just read and try to understand how it relates to this particular thread...

speaking of whitch, if "TheBudweiserstuntman" should be so kind as to u2u me again, Sir I would like to give you my E-mail so that we may converse on a more personal level than ATS



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posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 02:47 AM
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reply to post by SideWynder
 


Actually, I was replying to your suggestion to jackal that G.W.'s faith had nothing to do with his policy. You kind of asked what one had to do with the other and I felt obligated to enlighten you. Sorry if we got sidetracked but it just seemed to me that you were questioning him on what being 'faith based' had to do with holding public office. I have a particular problem with this subject so I could not help myself. If you were not asking what 'faith based' had to do with holding office, I appologize. I was just trying to answer your question.

[edit on 27/10/08 by Tiamanicus]



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 02:55 AM
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All I can say about how it relates to this thread is that I think it goes hand in hand with the same confusion as the gun ownership issue. People seem to think you need to be a good Christian to be a real patriot. At the same time, we mock other countries who's religious beliefs rule their policy? What s the difference between associating your patriotism with your god and deciding policy based on your religion. This is America, freedom of religion and such.

It is a little scary when people say things like "America is the best country in the world because we welcome everyone that noone else wants. We accept all kinds, one big melting pot. But man are those muslims and atheists and homosexuals and legal mexicans and ....etc. pieces of 'snip' they better go the hell home."



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 03:04 AM
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reply to post by Tiamanicus
 


Ok, not a problem, I reread my posts and can understand what you responded to.., my fault for not expounding on my opinion more... Or possibly not confering my actual thoughts more eloquently, and more precisely, than I should have..

my fault and my appologies to you...I also would like to thank you very much for the link, and the opportunity that you have allowed me to express my misunderstanding for your last post.. Also for the opportunity to give my opinion on this whole incident,,

if given the chance I whish we were able to u2u each other, again so that we may be able to converse, and explain any missunderstandings to each other... thank you for your input to this thread, but also again if you could, please try to tie it all in to the "OP" so that all your recent posts will not be deleted.. LOL,,,



[edit on 27-10-2008 by SideWynder]

[edit on 27-10-2008 by SideWynder]SPELLING



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 03:16 AM
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reply to post by Tiamanicus
 


Originally posted by Tiamanicus...

"All I can say about how it relates to this thread is that I think it goes hand in hand with the same confusion as the gun ownership issue. People seem to think you need to be a good Christian to be a real patriot.".

Yeppers, I can agree with this statement,to a point.. that is if you watch and listen to the msm. that is how they try to portray American Patriotism, but from what I have seen from your posts here on this thread, you may not agree, But in my opinion you are an "AMERICAN PATRIOT"



[edit on 27-10-2008 by SideWynder]

[edit on 27-10-2008 by SideWynder]



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 03:27 AM
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reply to post by SideWynder
 


Well, thank you. I like to think that I am. Unfortunately, I know plenty of people like I described. I am related to a few. This administration has caused some pretty big rifts. I cannot believe how many people that I know who carry out all manner of sins, living in sin, premarital sex, and on and on and on, suddenly feel that this is their Christian nation and should be as such.

Remember the push to put the ten commandments up in all courthouses?

In fact, one judge made it quite a crusade to prove a point -

Moore spoke passionately, and commentators echoed the notion that the Ten Commandments are the sole source of American law and therefore never should have been removed.
...cont

That, to me is extremely frightening. If the United States laws are to be interpreted FIRST throught the ten commandments, we would be in a LOOOOOOOOOT of trouble.

p.s. I gave you a star for complimenting me, because I am egotistical.

[edit on 27/10/08 by Tiamanicus]



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 03:40 AM
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Originally posted by Tiamanicus
All I can say about how it relates to this thread is that I think it goes hand in hand with the same confusion as the gun ownership issue. People seem to think you need to be a good Christian to be a real patriot. At the same time, we mock other countries who's religious beliefs rule their policy? What s the difference between associating your patriotism with your god and deciding policy based on your religion. This is America, freedom of religion and such.

It is a little scary when people say things like "America is the best country in the world because we welcome everyone that noone else wants. We accept all kinds, one big melting pot. But man are those muslims and atheists and homosexuals and legal mexicans and ....etc. pieces of 'snip' they better go the hell home."


I wasn't the OP of this thread, but I've agreed much of the general sentiment. You've pretty much got this 'bang on' with this post as far as I am concerned.

Now whether people want to pull out particular amendments is immaterial because, ultimately, this is about perception and how Americans and American patriotism are perceived. Particularly when that perception is down to Americans themselves. I'm conscious of the argument that I shouldn't be tainted by the media or Hollywood. However, I don't need a lying Hollywood or mythologising Hollywood to gain this impression. I can get that exact same impression of a lot of Americans through something like ATS, which in a sense, is straight from the horse's mouth and not through some left or right wing media spin.

[edit on 27-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 03:47 AM
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reply to post by Merriman Weir
 


Here here! There is no better place to get an idea of what people think than forums they are so proud to post in. People spill it all in these places, lay everything on the table, and more often than not, it is more than you wish you knew.



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 04:24 AM
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reply to post by Tiamanicus
 


Actually, I am Protestant, to be more specific I am Baptist, But as far as i am concerned no matter what religion you choose to follow, it should not be held either against you nor should it "help" (for lack of a better description) you to be able to gain political office.. again this is my personal belief..

Thid being a thread about "American Patriotism" I would ask all of you to take my folowing comments in context. this being that no matter your religious beliefs, this does not mean you are incapable of being a Patriot..

hopefully if you check out all my posts i have been able to explain what my beliefs of patriotisn are, and if you all check out alot of the posts here you will be able to glean a bit of what patriotism has been and does meen to our European bretheran...

hopefully I have not come off sounding like a buttox again.. LOL

[edit on 27-10-2008 by SideWynder]



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 04:44 AM
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reply to post by SideWynder
 


Don't you think it would be better if people, especially policy makers kept their religions private though? Why should any of us know that George Bush is a Christian? All that does is taint him in some eyes and buy votes with others, all the while it is completely insincere. Religion should never ever ever ever even come up in politics.

The founding fathers wanted to protect both by keeping them from each other. Look around, how do they both stand today? I can start with congress and catholics fondness for young teen boys of recent decades.



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by SideWynder
 


I am in a rush today, busy, busy... I will get back, I promise!



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by JipStix
 


Gun owners kinda scare me aswell, like they need to over compensate for something, particularly the ones who cling onto the second ammendment like it was written yesterday - guns serve no purpose in a civilised society


Are you implieing us Americans are civil?


We need guns because our government is slowly getting out of hand, and we sure as hell are not going to be able to do anything about it with rocks and sticks. I think your analogy between America and Nazi Germany is a good one...I only hope us Americans can fight the power and not have to get into a World War to stop it.





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