Wow... companies and market still working fine. What a shocker...

I'm down to the last 10 minutes of the MP3 I posted a link to, if nothing else, (cause you're too busy to listen to the whole thing) at least download it and listen to the ending for some perspective on where we are now.

They have no history of being on the mark. Economists cannot call downswings, they have a worst track record than weathermen. It is a joke how predictive economics is treated like a real science. Darts on a board have better abilities. I am not even going to pretend investment bankers have any more credibility.

Relentless,

I'm just wondering what your opinions are on this,

BBC

Do you think there is any prospect of a real investigation? Why do you think there are absolutely no governments screaming out loud about the real causes of this?

reply to post by The_Modulus

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More bleeding, we don't have the money (you and I - the taxpayer) for any more of their bailouts.

Why they don't admit what's going on is because then they would have to answer for the fact that they knew it all along (aside from the fact that they have all been bought and paid for).

That was my opinion folks - just to clarify.

reply to post by Relentless

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Aah, sorry, I completely misread what I was trying to quote. I skimmed through the article and thought Paulson wanted to investigate, rather than invest

Still my question remains, why is it that not one single nation has called it as it is? Surely these vested interest groups could not have 'gotten to' everyone?

reply to post by The_Modulus

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LOL - Freudian wishfull thinking. They did however announce investigations right after passing the Bailout. As if that isn't a crock, cause they all knew what was going on.

The other countries knew and just took advantage of the good times while they were rolling, now they are screwed. It's the US that HAS to come clean, and we can only speculate as to why they won't at this point, but it probably has a lot to do with how intertwined they are personally in the entire mess.

This is an unfortunate truth, that the solution must come from within the US itself. It is frustrating as a 'foreigner', who for my entire life, has considered himself a citizen of the global community, to be thus far detached from an issue which so closely affects me, indeed us all.

I've charged myself with the duty of telling as many people as I can about what is happening in the world, and how virulent and entrenched our manipulating elite has become, yet it is difficult to convince people of the urgency of a seemingly American issue when my own country is riddled with adversity on par with this crisis.

I want to tell Americans to demand accountability from their government, as well as Europeans to demand it of it of their banks! Yet the only way I can do that is by relaying it to the choir here on ATS...

It is a frustrating matter, and I think many of us must be content to begin change within ourselves and merely allow it to infuse in as many places as the course of our lives will permit.

I'm laughing at the fools that things are bad but we'll eventually get out of it in a few months or a year. Things haven't even gotten started yet. Next year, the options mortgages kick in. I'm sure you'll wonder why Fox News didn't tell you about them, but let me just clear the dust. There were 3 types of mortgages sold. The normal interest + principal payment, the interest-only payment, and then the minimal payment mortgage. The minimal payment-only mortgage are options payment. Those are the ones where the person buying the house only paid a small minimal balance. That means their payment doesn't even cover the interest on their mortgage, so that they loan is actually increasing anywhere from 10-25%. It's like the credit card that says you only need to pay 10 dollars for your 3000 dollar credit card loan. And get this, most of these loans are for huge mcmansions.

reply to post by Relentless

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Right, in other words "all those who disagree with me will be ignored, because the facts don't matter."

The thread is wrong. The thread has been wrong. I'm quoting from economists who have been right about this for quite some time - now, are you going to provide data to dispute them or continue with the "sky is falling" hysteria and ignore anyone who presents facts to the contrary?

reply to post by LowLevelMason

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In what way do you feel the information provided is in fact false? Economics is a science of inaccuracies and questimations.. there is no solid "this will happen" .. from either side, it is quite literally impossible to be right all the time..

But go ahead and present your information .. I don't think anyone here will completely ignore you .. though I would not expect many to agree with you either.

Hi Relentless,

So are you saying that the 14th (right after Columbus day) is essentially d-day? This is not just a -500 Dow Jones drop, but a total economic collapse globally or somewhat resembling a collapse? I'm just trying to see where this is going so I can prepare myself. Thanks...

-Phillip

A Sunday night takeover....and it's HUGE.

HBOS and RBS 'to be nationalised' in £50 billion state intervention


Lloyds was looking to take over HBOS (okay, Gordon Brown was trying to force them to do so), but that deal fell through today. HBOS is the largest mortgage lender in the UK.
RBS - the Royal Bank of Scotland - nearly 300 years of history will be taken over by the British government. RBS is the largest bank in Scotland and the second largest in the UK.

reply to post by anachryon

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We have seen banking consolidation before,
But never has it been consolidated by Governments.. If the Government get's in the business of banking, which turns a huge profit, the laws will no longer be worked out to protect the individual but rather the baking entities and thus the government being attached the banking industry as well. For the little guy, this is concerning to watch.. I will now be paying my high interest rate loans and credit card debts to the Government, and not to the greedy banker.. then again, I guess now there is no discerning the difference between the two?

reply to post by Rockpuck

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Unless of course you have a transparent government which is itself accountable to the people.

I doubt it can get an worse; government is supposed to mediate the will of the people, as it stands we have to plea with them to investigate these banks, if government directly owns them, you just cut out the middle man of accountability.

Hmmm, I didn't ignore you, seriously where are you that things are so wonderful, I'm in the market for a relocation myself.

The data to dispute is all over this board AND all over the news. For every one or two of your experts I'm seeing plenty that disagree. Believe who you want. The financial news has been nothing but crisis talk all weekend.

I'd love to pit KD against your "economists" any day, he'd do it too, and he'd blow them out of the water, because their are a lot more backing him at this point.

BTW - the article you posted basically says Paulson and Bernake will save the day????? Are they kidding? I have to go find the list of lies they've told. Really, that article is such calm down joke on the public, it's laughable. Give us your money and we'll fix everything for you? I've given enough and it's still broken. We've all already given them so much, we, our children and our grandchildren are on the hook.

[edit on 10/12/2008 by Relentless]

Nope - what I'm saying is we have no clue what will happen. There will be a bounce at some point (there always is). I hope it happens Tuesday, because if it doesn't that means no one bought into anything that the G7 or anyone else is doing about the meltdown.

When the Chief of the IMF warns of Global Meltdown on a Saturday, (excuse me for such a poor source of information, I don't know what school he went to :lol and we aren't seeing any solutions being offerred by the world leaders, there is absolutely no advice I could give you, or anyone else for that matter. the uncharted terriotry thing .

We don't have to wait till Tuesday - the markets are open tomorrow (despite the Banks being closed, it is not a Market Holiday).

The only thing I can't stress strongly enough is that at this stage, the stock exchanges are not the whole picture. What we need to be watching now is whether or not credit starts to flow again.

reply to post by Relentless

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I have been reading all the posts here and from what I can gather the critical issue at this time is credit lines inside the country and letters of credit for international trade. If this correct? If so what effect if any will the nationalization of banks effect this? At this time so much of the US infrastructure is dependent on off shore materials, valves, boiler tube, castings, that long delays in shipments will have a very bad effect on us being able to keep the lights on. Any input would be helpful. By the way you are doing a great job. WD

AP


It looks like the countries using the Euro currency will be guaranteeing bank-to-bank lending in what looks like a last-ditch attempt to free up frozen credit.

reply to post by anachryon

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Well just because the EU goverments are taking extreme measures to fix the situation, this does not prove that the situation is dire at all. In fact it proves that everything is OK, and that there is no problem at all. Stop fear mongering. (this post is to be read with a large spoonfull of irony).