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Tonights Town Hall Debate Discussion

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posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 07:11 AM
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My $0.02 on the debate:

Short analysis, no big changes. Neither guy said or did anything terribly unexpected, mostly more of the same from both.

I do not like the degree to which both avoided answering the questions, and both did not adhere to the rules to which they had agreed governing the behavior of the debate. I sincerely wish Brokaw had nailed them both on it more.

This may seem trivial, but having the discipline to stand by agreements is an attribute to which I hold value. Neither of these guys was terribly impressive with the degree of discipline displayed. Obama was less horrible than McCain... McCain mostly seemed to just drone on a lot. To the point that I sometimes had trouble even figuring out what he was trying to say, let alone what he was saying having any relation to the question.

Same on the time limits... they both essentially ignored an agreement they had made... again Obama was less bad about this than McCain.

And having the discipline to stand by one's agreements is important.

Finally, watching McCain on the floor, I was, for the very first time, aware of his age. He was stumbling around on the floor out there, maundering around with his speech, and just came across to me as a doddering old man. Again, for the first time. That was unsettling.

No reason that I saw to change my attitude on either guy. I was impressed with Obama's class (for lack of a better term) in handling McCain's little jabs, but that is nothing new. I consider Obama a class act, love him or hate him.




posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 07:18 AM
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Nah, I'd say John McCain made a good account of himself. Reagan looked far worse IMO when he took to the debates and he still got in as president.

The fact that Obama is being lauded with victory is quite insane and some of you need to step back from the hazy Obama factor for a few minutes and clear your heads. When the haze clears you'll be able to see things a bit more even-handed.
J McCain may be getting on a bit, but he's an ordinary american. The other guy is IMO, by the way he operates on the debating floor akin to a snake oil salesmen hussling his way into the White House.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
Finally, watching McCain on the floor, I was, for the very first time, aware of his age. He was stumbling around on the floor out there, maundering around with his speech, and just came across to me as a doddering old man. Again, for the first time. That was unsettling.


I just said something similar in another thread. Even used the word "doddering". "I was very uncomfortable watching McCain shuffle around like a little doddering old penguin. His awkward physicality was too apparent when juxtaposed with Obama's confident stature. Add to that the fact that McCain strayed off his topic and wandered into stump "slogans" and talking points again and again... trying (and failing in delivery and substance) stupid jokes about hair implants and Brokaw... he came off looking extremely out of touch and unappealing."

I have been aware of his age before, but never like last night.

I give the "win" to Obama, although it wasn't by much. I think he listened to and answered the questions more responsively than McCain. I'd give Obama a 60% - 40% "win".



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 08:08 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Just got done watching, love Tivo, and I was less than impressed with either man. Questions sidestepped, or ignored completely.

Neither man has touched a chord with me. At this point I remain firmly undecided...though I am firmly decided that America needs better candidates...this is the best we can do? What are the next ones gonna be like, I shudder to think.




As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 08:18 AM
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Can someone please tell me what I am missing? I intently watched the whole thing and not once did I find any answers. Can someone point them out? I have an I.Q. of 143 but am aparently too stupid to follow along and connot for the life of me figure out which exact statement either candidate made that could be possibly construed as anything coined with the definition of the word "Answer."



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 09:48 AM
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Right after the debate was over, I flipped the channel to FAUX NEWS, and there was a live audience reaction down in VA. The reporter polled the public who won the debate on health care, and the majority raised hands for Obama. Then the FAUX anchor said something to the effect that well, probably McCain did much better on economy. The reporter looked a little unsure, then decided to poll the audience again, on that issue, and guess what, a tiny minority raised their hands for McCain.

Now, get this, this is live on a rabid right-wing channel. In Virginia. In a conservative audience. Just priceless.

Obama got this one down cold.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem
Right after the debate was over, I flipped the channel to FAUX NEWS, and there was a live audience reaction down in VA. The reporter polled the public who won the debate on health care, and the majority raised hands for Obama. Then the FAUX anchor said something to the effect that well, probably McCain did much better on economy. The reporter looked a little unsure, then decided to poll the audience again, on that issue, and guess what, a tiny minority raised their hands for McCain.

Now, get this, this is live on a rabid right-wing channel. In Virginia. In a conservative audience. Just priceless.

Obama got this one down cold.



Reminds me of this:



Yes that was definitely close.

[edit on 8-10-2008 by davion]



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 10:00 AM
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It doesn't really matter. McCain needed to lay out Obama, but failed to do so, so he lost the debate, simple as that. The debate wasn't about the debate, as much as it was about recovering the decline in the polls. He needed something huge, and he failed to deliver. Obama did not have to do a thing other than cruise along, since McCain failed to get angry, make a statement, call out Obama on anything, and so on. Even if some folks think McCain won the debate (which I don't think he did honestly, best I can do is call it a "tie,"), Obama is clearly winning the war.

I think had either of them laid out a serious plan regarding the CURRENT crisis of massivly declining stocks, or heck, even acknowledged it, they would have earned big points. But I don't think either one wanted to touch it, too much chance of it backfiring.

Finally, I think McCain did a bit too much backtracking and pounding his chest (yes, we know you flew back to Washington and had zero effect, as did Obama, who also had zero effect), while Obama at least touched on some stuff that McCain did not (I don't think John even mentioned education, Obama did).

McCain needs to be going for the throat here, NOT talking about projectors ending up in museums. That's a terrible waste of time and oomph. Like Joe Public is going to be upset with Obama for putting an improvement in a museum.

[edit on 8-10-2008 by fleabit]



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 10:18 AM
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I have a question directed at the conservatives......

Why is it that every 2 minutes someone feels the need to invoke the name of Ronald Reagan?? I mean, for all the "messsiah" talk......seems to me he is revered in an almost.....dare I say it "messianic" way.

I came to this conclusion long ago he is some kind of savior to Repubs. Just wondering, because I heard McCain use his name several times in last nights debate.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by Grafilthy
I have a question directed at the conservatives......

Why is it that every 2 minutes someone feels the need to invoke the name of Ronald Reagan?? I mean, for all the "messsiah" talk......seems to me he is revered in an almost.....dare I say it "messianic" way.

I came to this conclusion long ago he is some kind of savior to Repubs. Just wondering, because I heard McCain use his name several times in last nights debate.


Reagan: What the hell my administration was trading arms with terrorists behind my back to negotiate hostages? They were helping traffic drugs to Contras and rebel groups? I apparently don't have any control over my administration! I didn't know anything about this! Excuse me while I go shred these documents before the investigators bust open my door.

Conservatives: [Sigh] My hero, he's so dreamy. Best. President. Ever.

[edit on 8-10-2008 by davion]



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by Taledus
I intently watched the whole thing and not once did I find any answers.


I started to go through the debate and highlight the answers for you, but I realized that if I could find them, then surely someone with your IQ could find them if they tried.

Here's the Transcript


I agree that relatively few questions were answered and certainly not in the detail we would have liked, but some were answered. You just have to weed through the stump speech and talking points to find them.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by Grafilthy
 





Why is it that every 2 minutes someone feels the need to invoke the name of Ronald Reagan?? I mean, for all the "messsiah" talk......seems to me he is revered in an almost.....dare I say it "messianic" way.

Oh, you mean like the way liberals constantly invoke JFK?

Oh, I see.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


What I understood to be answers were just very vague phrases that have been said before, preceeded AND followed along with every other main point they are representing in thier campaigns. These would have been just simple answers...simple responses. The questions were easy to understand, it was the jumbled responses that were not. The young guy in section A who asked how these economic problems would specifically effect people his age (or something to that effect without looking)...The responses seemed to not even touch that, but everything else.

Now I know why presidents have people to write thier speaches for them. However, I believe a leader of a great nation should be able to cognitively answer simple questions...or atleast follow along with the rules of a debate...not like the current one we have. Everytime I have seen him attempt to answer a question it is resonded to with "Uh...well, I uhhhh".

I caught the spot for the movie "W" that is coming out...I nearly wet myself laughing so hard



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 



Oh, you mean like the way liberals constantly invoke JFK?

Oh, I see.

I think you misunderstood me. That was a relatively straightforward question. By the way....I disagree with the JFK reference. I rarely hear his name used, with the exception of Obama being a young popular politician.

Why is the name Ronald Regan invoked on a seemingly daily basis??

Is there something that I'm missing? There have been many, many Republicans past and present, yet he is the one constantly brought up as a example of what the right strives to be.

Why is that?



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by Grafilthy
Why is the name Ronald Regan invoked on a seemingly daily basis??


Not only that, but also quoted out of context, just like Palin did -- Reagan was warning Americans of the insufferable evil that will happen to them with introduction of Medicare; Palin used this phrase with reference to American Freedoms. Duh.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by Grafilthy
 


Apparently, I'm not allowed to name them, but look at the Republican Presidents of the last 40 years, and you will see why they love Reagan. I'm an Independent, btw!



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 01:39 PM
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Obama won, but not by much. It wasn't as clear a victory as the others. It was a dull, pretty event-less debate.

Obama had to keep his cool and not lose it. He did that.

McCain had to press and press and press, and hopefully cause a major mistake by Obama, or ideally, knock him out. He did neither.

They both flubbed the facts a bit. They always do. www.factcheck.org breaks it out well.

McCain should NOT walk around. His age showed.

I was also uncomfortable by how close he was getting to the audience. Felt awkward.

His jokes were not funny. They were awkward also.

He shouldn't have called Obama "THAT one." That's condescending.

He also shouldn't have been so quick to leave. Did you guys catch that? The Obamas stuck around, took pics, signed autographs. the McCains we reported as GONE minutes after the debate was over. Talk about condescending.

He shouldn't have assumed that the African American gentleman might not have heard of Fannie Mae before it became an issue in the election. I know what he meant; that most average Americans may not have heard of this institution until it became a big deal, but perception is reality. You gotta watch those things. He said it to a young man, and a young black man. That's asking to be criticized.

He really needs to address his health plan. If the average cost to Americans is 12K, and your giving a 5K rebate, then how is that good? Where do we get the other 7K? Obama's called him on that a number of times, and McCain's never answered.

I just don't know what McCain's thinking. Every once in a while, he lets his elitist self peak through. If he's really for the people, BE FOR THE PEOPLE. Stick around, sign a picture or two!



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by WatchRider

Originally posted by AndrewTB
Obama agrees with McCain every single time he doesnt know how to answer the question. He does this as a means to buy time and modify it on the fly. HILARIOUS!

I'm sorry but anyone whom thinks Obama won this one is absolutely out of their mind.

The last debate is open for debate as to who won, but this one is a clear cut victory for McCain imho.


So John McCain wom the dabate by a nose. He clinched it in the final half. But only just.

Im willing to admit its not a landslide. I was angry last night by the ignorance the media and a lot of America is portraying. I spend almost all my free time reading up on politics. With school and work I should be using this free time to party and enjoy myself, but I gotta say I am quite hooked to the political arena. Sometimes when you are so passionate about something you tend to lose your temper.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 01:46 PM
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I just posted this on another thread, but I've decided it might be informative if posted here, too:

Sham Debates


Senator Lindsay Graham of the McCain campaign and Representative Rahm Emanuel of the Obama campaign have negotiated a detailed contract that dictates the terms of the 2008 presidential debates, including who can participate and the structure of the formats. The Commission on Presidential Debates has agreed to implement the debate contract.

Yet, in order to shield the major party candidates from criticism, the Commission on Presidential Debates has refused to release the debate contract to the public.
[1]


Some details have leaked on the contents of the 'Memorandum of Understanding', which governs the 'debates':


  • The MOU runs 31 pages.
  • It governs "everything from how the candidates are addressed to the permissible camera shots."
  • Gallup is in charge of making sure "the questioners reflect the demographic makeup of the nation."
  • "Brokaw selects the questions to ask from written queries submitted prior to the debate."
  • "An audience member will not be allowed to switch questions."
  • "The moderator may not ask followups or make comments."
  • The camera will show only the question asked, not the reaction of the questioner.
  • "While there will be director's chairs (with backs and foot rests), McCain and Obama will be allowed to stand -- but they can't roam past their 'designated area' to be marked on the stage."
  • "McCain and Obama are not supposed to ask each other direct questions.
    [2]



  • The person who asks the question will not be allowed a follow-up either, and his or her microphone will be turned off after the question is read.
    [3]


    Disgusting! How is it a 'town hall meeting' when the audience can only ask pre-selected scripted questions, with no follow-up, and the camera aren't even allowed to show their reactions?



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