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Debunking Chemtrails

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posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by SuperSecretSquirrel
Please remember that the perps would still have to breathe the chemicals. Would they do that to themselves??


Maybe they have been told, and even believe a lie about what they are doing.

All chemtrail believers aren't in the same belief system. We don't know what IS going on, just that something isn't right and we don't buy the explanations so readily.

There are many theories, most people I read on here aren't claiming answers as much as questions.




posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by Snift
 


Documents uncovered via freedom of information.


A collection of BioMass collected via hepa filters

The phenomena is real. People are collecting samples and providing factual data, this is no conspiracy, it's reality.

They did it in 1968, and they are still doing it today.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 09:00 PM
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My twisted mind often wonders if the "debunkers" aren't really believers who just want to keep the discussion alive!

Doesn't really matter does it? I enjoy these threads particularly when new and different info comes out.

Good job, dreaming and others!




[edit on 6-10-2008 by interestedalways]



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by YouAreDreaming
 


When you see them "turn off the spray" it could be the plane dropping altitude/change in temp.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by SuperSecretSquirrel
 


Mate, dont even bother trying to convince these guys. They dont know about meteorology, they dont understand upper weather patterns, they dont know what sublimation or low vapour pressure is, they do not know about aeronautics, they do not know what cloud seeding is. Despite all these things they know something is wrong??


Several of us have tried but these guys will believe what they believ while we will believe what sciene and scientific evidence tells us.

At least half of ATS (from what Ive seen) will agree with you, some of us like myself that work for weather agencies and have been pilots or aircraft mechanics. I wont post anymore here at the risk of having a disinformationist accusation shot at me, but just saying there's no point arguing anymore

Anyway a flag for your trouble and for your interest below

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by YouAreDreaming
 


I did not see anything peculiar in the pictures of the microbes nor in their description. There are all sorts of bacteria in the air. The fact that the filter captured things is irrelevant. As far as the video goes, there have been hair-brained scientists that think up some crazy things to control global warming but I don't see spraying microscopic glass into the high stratosphere a viable solution. No one has linked what chemicals "they" are using and especially not evidence has been presented. I am getting, "I know that I am being sprayed and that is that!" That is not good enough for me.

I am most definitely not a believer in the chemtrail theory and I started this thread to try to show those who are convinced that they are being sprayed to try and get some comfort. The last thing that we need in this scary world is to worry about all the bad planes spraying bad stuff about us.

Please take solace in the fact that just the pure amount of money that would be required to make this theory a reality would be so immense that no black funds could finance it alone and still have money to run all the black ops that we know already exist.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 09:18 PM
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reply to post by interestedalways
 



GOOD point ! I appreciate your intelligence and insight



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 



You KEEP promising you won't post anymore spin about 'contrails' are Chems .... but then you never keep your promise !



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 


Lol, I figured that with all the chemtrail talk that there wasn't a debunking page already up! I have to agree with you on this. Some people will defy all the science and all the evidence and trust their gut that "something is wrong."



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 09:21 PM
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I'm not letting my opinion leak into my post in any way, Just stating US Patents that imply for doing exactly what people are saying in this thread.
In fact, for the ones who choose not to believe that they are putting anything into the air, feel free to google these patents yourself.

Chemtrail Patents:

Method and apparatus for altering a region in the earth's atmosphere, ionosphere, and/or magnetosphere
United States Patent 4,686,605 / Eastlund / August 11, 1987

A method and apparatus for altering at least one selected region which normally exists above the earth's surface. The region is excited by electron cyclotron resonance heating to thereby increase its charged particle density. In one embodiment, circularly polarized electromagnetic radiation is transmitted upward in a direction substantially parallel to and along a field line which extends through the region of plasma to be altered
(Haarp anyone?)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Method of modifying weather
United States Patent 6,315,213 / Cordani / November 13, 2001

A method for artificially modifying the weather by seeding rain clouds of a storm with suitable cross-linked aqueous polymer. The polymer is dispersed into the cloud and the wind of the storm agitates the mixture causing the polymer to absorb the rain.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Process for absorbing ultraviolet radiation using dispersed melanin
United States Patent / 5,286,979 / Berliner / February 15, 1994

This invention is a process for absorbing ultraviolet radiation in the atmosphere by dispersing melanin, its analogs, or derivatives into the atmosphere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Liquid atomizing apparatus for aerial spraying
United States Patent / 4,948,050 / Picot / August 14, 1990

A rotary liquid spray atomizer for aerial spraying is driven by a variable speed motor, driven in turn by power from a variable speed AC generator. The generator is driven from a power take-off from the engine of the spraying aircraft, a drive assembly includes a device for controlling the speed of the generator relative to the speed of the engine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Laminar microjet atomizer and method of aerial spraying of liquids
United States Patent / 4,412,654 Yates / November 1, 1983

A laminar microjet atomizer and method of aerial spraying involve the use of a streamlined body having a slot in the trailing edge thereof to afford a quiescent zone within the wing and into which liquid for spraying is introduced.

Seriously, how much more proof is needed?
If it sounds like a possum,smells like a possum,looks like a possum, 99% chance that its a possum.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by SuperSecretSquirrel
 



No need to trust guts when the ANALYSIS of Chemtrail gunk is there online for all to read, for FREE


No need to trust guts when your EYES can SEE Chemtrails, horizon to horizon

and when those EYES have seen ordinary, puny contrails since you were a tiny kid

and when those EYES reveal Chemtrails being sprayed in 'X' formations and GRID formations and in PARALLEL streaks from horizon to horizon and in LOOP shapes when the Chem-plane's tanks are nearly empty and the pilot is being a lair.

No need to trust guts when thousands of CAMERAS have recorded these maneuvres, daily, for years, over populated areas and catchments areas

No need to trust guts when thousands of RECORDINGS of Chemtrails in every shape of their development is FREELY available online

Speaking of guts ... where are the politicians with a few guts ? Where are those paid representatives with the guts to go amongst their constituents to tell them the truth about Chemtrails ?

Those as yet undiscovered gusty politicians would KNOW better than to try to get the truth out via the whore media (which is deliberately withholding vital Chemtrail info from the sheep .. because those who control the whore media are the same slime who're engaged in Chemtrail dispersion).

So come on out, all you politicians who claim to have the 'welfare of the Sheepies at heart '.

Come on OUT !

Or we'll remain convinced you do not exist.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by Snift
 


Just because there have been patents applied for or issued for sprayers does not mean that contrails are chemtrails.




posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by Dock6
 


Please post a link to a reliable source giving a detailed analysis of the chemicals of the so called chemtrails. How were these samples attained? I need to see real evidence, real overwhelming evidence to believe any conspiracy theory, not criss-crossing clouds in the sky.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by YouAreDreaming
This site, has proven very accurate in predicting when these events will occur:
www.owsweather.com...

This just about made me fall off my chair when I first read it. It epitomizes everything that I find wrong and indecent about the whole chemtrail mythos, and it shows that many of the supposed chemtrail “experts” are outright frauds.

The person who made this site knows darn well why persistent contrails are forming in that area, and its not because they have some inside information from the agency that is supposedly “doing it”, but rather because they are stealing atmospheric information from sites such as these:
Contrail Predictions
NASA LARC Contrail Information
Which bases its predictions on real science about the atmospheric conditions that cause the creation of persistent contrails.


Originally posted by YouAreDreaming
And I know from my observations living near the airport, that the planes that fly in and leave the clouds vs. the ones that leave a contrail are certainly not the same.

That is because those aircraft are flying at different altitudes, and thus different atmospheric conditions. An altitude separation as small as even a couple of thousand feet can make a difference whether a persistent contrail forms or not.

Here is a contrail calculator that shows how the contrail varies by a change of just a few degrees of temperature or points of humidity:
Contrail Calculator


Originally posted by YouAreDreaming
When the chem planes fly in, it's obvious as hell, they streak the sky up, it gets cloudy and grey. When they are not flying, all things are normal, sky is blue and beautiful.

No, its when aircraft fly through air that forms persistent contrails that this occurs.


Originally posted by YouAreDreaming
They usually do it within a couple of hours, so most of the day you won't see a streak in the sky, until they start their campaign.

Commercial airlines fly in what is called “Flight Banks”, which is why they will all show up at the same time, especially if you live near an airport as you say. The reason why Banks are used is so that connecting flights all arrive at roughly the same time, allowing passengers from one flight to change planes, or even airlines at a connection point.


Originally posted by YouAreDreaming
I have watched them turn off/on the spray,

The supposed turning off and on of the sprayers is actually caused when an aircraft flying through cold air hits and updraft or a thermal. These are the same things that glider pilots use when soaring. Like this:



Originally posted by YouAreDreaming
noted how none of the trails ever go towards our airport, the always fly past, and never arc/circle to land.

All this means is that the aircraft that is landing is in an approach pattern that is much lower then the aircraft that is over flying the airport. Again, a difference in altitude causes a difference in weather conditions, and thus a difference in the persistence of the contrails they leave.

[edit on 10/6/2008 by defcon5]



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by Dock6
Commercial pilots do NOT conduct loop-the-loops, or paste massive 'x' signs in rapidly expanding 'gunk' across populated areas. Nor do they spend hours spraying 'harmless contrails' in massive grid patterns and horizon-to-horizon parallel strips above major cities.

Actually they do!
They are called:
Holding Patterns

And…
VOR’s



[edit on 10/6/2008 by defcon5]



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 10:14 PM
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reply to post by Snift
 


None of these things you mention or that you show patents for look anything like what supposed chemtrails look like:
Aerial Spryaing:

This is done at low level, and it disperses quickly. It does not form clouds, nor stay in the atmosphere.
Cloud Seeding

Is done above the clouds, it disperses rapidly, and it (obviously) removes clouds, not causes them.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


Congratulations on the most coherent series of posts I have ever seen in a chemtrail thread.

Hurray for research! Science is pretty cool too.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 11:16 PM
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reply to post by SuperSecretSquirrel
 


Years ago, the government in an attempt to help the farmers of America combat yet another insect pest, supplied farmers with some free pesticides. The poison was petroleum based, had the same octane rating of premium (ethyl) gas and came in 55 gallon drums. All the farmer need to do to get his share of the pesticide was to notify their county extension office, identify the crop and acres planted and he could then pick up the amount needed. The pesticide was to be used in a fogger but if a fogger wasn’t available, basically any gasoline burning engine would suffice in producing the “fog” needed to disburse the poison.

After that particular insect pest threat was over, the County E.O. gave away the remaining pesticide as surplus to whoever wanted it. They just had to go pick it up. Some was used as a residential pesticide, some set it aside for any future pesticide needs and some used as free fuel for the tractor or car, lawn mower, etc. For those that used it as fuel, it produced a very distinguishable cloud of thick bluish smoke that looked like the engine was burning oil so it wasn’t used for the family car but was common on the farm in various other engines and oddly enough didn’t foul the spark plugs as one might think it would. A few years later it was determined that this pesticide wasn’t as safe as once thought and it, DDT, was no longer to be used.

What does this have to do with chem-trails? In a round-about way it shows that a poison, or any other chemical, can be dispensed through an airplane or jet by way of their ENGINE and that a sprayer isn’t really necessary for chemical distribution. It also demonstrates that sometimes our government may think it is doing something safe that may later turn out to be “not so safe”. So unless or until some one can validate with absolute certainty that the fuel being used in these jets or planes, does not contain anything other than aviation fuel, I don’t think you can debunk the chem-trails by simply stating that mechanics haven’t seen a sprayer on their jets while performing routine maintenance. I have no doubt that these mechanics are the best at what they do, but they are not chemists and wouldn’t have the education needed to properly identify all the contents in the currently used jet fuels. The above mentioned poison produced a notable bluish smoke by design, but could just as easily been designed to produce less smoke and even a different color.

Just my humble thoughts on the matter.


[edit on 10/6/2008 by eaganthorn]

[edit on 10/6/2008 by eaganthorn]



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 11:29 PM
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reply to post by eaganthorn
 


As I stated earlier, I was in the aviation field which made me privy to taking many fuel samples out of our military aircraft. JP8 or AVGAS is used and really it is just kerosene. The only additive in it, I cant remember the name because its been 4 years, but it controls bacterial growth. I will admit that I am not a chemist but jet fuel burns relatively clean when compared to gasoline.

As far as you statement about something being applied to fuel to be spread by the exhaust: A turbine engine operates about 2200 degrees F. The fuel itself does not get this hot but the heat of the engine would break apart any "poison" added to the fuel. It is very difficult to not have a chemical reaction at this temperature therefore altering the composition of whatever additive may or not have been added.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


Thanks for your contributions Defcon! Star for you and your scientific self!




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