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Debunking Chemtrails

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posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by SuperSecretSquirrel
 

"you hear a jet in the sky and you look up and don't see one, its not because they are invisible,"

Are you sure of this. I mean are you absolutely sure? Because if you are absolutely sure, then that's that.




posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by SuperSecretSquirrel

Thanks drock, no real evidence, only "feelings."


This is completely untrue. I don't believe that I have decided something is amiss based on feelings. My own experience was of lying in the park a couple of years ago and I observed at least two planes going back and forth (I made the assumption that it was the same two because of the frequency of flybys and the similiarity of the way the planes looked) as they continued to fly over they left the criss crossed, checkerboard, "grid" pattern above my head, it eventually dispersed into complete overhead coverage.

About an hour later I observed a slight "rainbow" colored shiny area in the sky that of course will be called a "sundog" by those who want to deny that anything unusual is ocurring in the sky. I looked up criteria for sundog at that time and it seemed that a sundog is most likely to appear around 4pm and has to do with the sun's position on the horizon.

This is what made me start looking into this subject. NOT MY GUT, or any other part of my body, except maybe my BRAIN.


Although science is a wonderful thing and has it's place in our society it is not the beginning and end of all as far as answers go, as a matter of fact it is constantly changing based upon new information and advancements. If you don't like the earth being flat as an analogy, there are many more to gleen. For instance, how long have we had the technology we know have and how fast does it grow? Do you guys believe science is etched in stone and has no potential to change what is known as time goes by???


I have called out people to provide evidence of equipment on aircraft or of samples taken from the chemtrails and nobody has done it yet.


Called out people, huh? Well isn't that special. This subject is far from over my freind, you yourself may well be surprised someday at what is found. Unfortunately most of us don't have our own private means to fly up and collect some crap that is floating around and labratory access to test it, but the time will come I hope that it is done.


The believers of this theory know nothing about aviation.


This isn't about aviation, it is about our skies being filled with white cover that appears to come from airplanes.

Trust and believe, if I had all the money and peoples at my disposal to keep a BIG secret I could do it, just like those that know what is behind the trails are doing.

Open your minds, you might just learn something NEW!

And Phange, if you are so tired of this type of thinking then take a NAP!



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 05:04 PM
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posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by SuperSecretSquirrel
 


For the record:

The German government has admitted to spraying under orders of the NATO command. The link to the article I kept it for some time while doing the research but after having verified it's really happening (the spraying I mean, after I've done my own research) that chemtrails are real, I discarded it. It's not guts or science, it's reality.

For what purpose is this spraying going on... who knows?, certainly not you or me, maybe them (question being: who's them?). But it's happening all over the world. The only thing really, really annoying it's we don't know why... and I hate not knowing.

Still not to worry, the world as we know it will end in 2012, so enjoy while can...



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 05:54 PM
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Ya know what? When I was a kid, way back in the 50's and 60's, I was facinated watching planes and watching the contrails disappear and watching the clear blue skies, watching the beautiful fluffy normal clouds go by while standing in the backseat of our 57 ford looking out the back window(no seatbelts required back then), then at times laying in the yard on a blanket looking up at the sky watching the planes go by and the contrails disappearing and wondering why they did that. Then as I got older, science was my favorite and I found out why. Still the sky and the clouds were beautiful, still watching the contrails disappear as they soared out of site, with not one remanant of them even flown by!

Now, as the years went by, I became busy with being one of slaves of the establishment and still looked up in the sky when I could, still the same beautiful sky, with disappearing contrails. But then, around 1987, I noticed they started hanging around, didn't think anything except, has something changed, but of course, too busy to pay any mind to it, like most people do, and I felt like I'd been living in a cave since the 80's when all this crap started clouding our beautiful blue skies and I happen to stumble upon chemtrails, I thought, aha. I was a skeptic at first too until I stumbled upon some other stuff. Now, I am a believer, my brother even scoffed at it, and now he is a believer. He is watching them now too. He is older than I am, and he remebers them disappearing too. So, I know you are a skeptic, OP, but you need to do more research before you debunk.

I was at the lake one day this summer, it was a beautiful day here in Oregon, I mean beautiful. 84 degrees crystal clear blue skies. And all of a sudden, out of the NE come 2 planes, (white, no markings) and just mucked up the whole sky in just a few minutes, no more beautiful blue sky. Those were the thickest trails I've ever seen. Now, on another beautiful blue skied day, finally, we were getting spring and sunshine, I looked up, lo and behold, our sunshine disappeared after some major spraying!! And that is only a couple of incidents, don't want to put them all here just in the past year, or you'd have a book.

Anyway, you need to do more investigating before debunking. The pilots of these planes even call themselves "Sky Spiders". Go ahead, google it, and also, go to William Thomas.com, and google chemtrails. It is a conspiracy, it is not a figment of our collective imagination. Even google "what chemtrails really are", you can also go to the "Freeman Perspective" he has also done a lot of research on this. Well, there's my perspective and you have every right to state your opinion, cause this is what this site is for, I'm just stating mine and my experiences. Thanks



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by stardust1955
 


I was a kid in the sixties and seventies and grew up with clear skies. My first sight of chemtrails was in 1994. I am amazed at the amount of ridicule that gets thrown at those of us that observe and make mental notes of the odd and unusual. Having an inquiring mind these days has been turned into a sin worthy of nothing else but insult.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 06:44 PM
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Be prepared for a couple of pics from the 50's that show a couple of chemtrail looking stuff from the planes, there are not many, but they always pull them out of the hat!

There will probably be a reference to a movie or two from the 70's with a shot of a chemtrail looking sky.

But like both of the previous posters said, it is not the same thing as what we are seeing now!



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 06:52 PM
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First of all, who says the perps are aware of what they're doing?!

"D'uh gee sir wassat on the side of the plane?""

"That's a weather sensor, it collects data about the atmosphere, now run along and pump this liquid in that hole there."

"Duh OK...what is it?"

"It's special water for business class. Stop asking questions peasant, don't we pay you enough?"

Second, the chemtrails are supposed to be high in barium and aluminium, incredibly toxic if left to be absorbed into the system. If you know about the dangers you take precautions to detox the body of excess metals, just as I'm sure you will when you finally wake up and realise we are being sprayed with poison every day of our lives. Bet you think Mercury fillings are good for your teeth too eh?

Seriously it takes a lot for me to get wound up by people's ignorance, but anyone who denies chemtrails is either compliant with the perps or just an absolute moron. I fear you are the latter. Come stay at mine for a week in Manchester near the airport. Watch one plane take off and it's trail disappear into vapour within seconds, then watch the following one tear up the sky seconds later, same altitude. Wake up please, the coffee's going cold.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by Witness2008
 


Thank You Witness2008. Sometimes when I read some of these posts about stuff that is proven and has been investigated and someone tries to debunk them, just tells me they haven't done their homework or considers some common sense about the matter at hand. But oh, well, I guess this is how they learn. And even if it bit them and proved they were real, they would probably still try to debunk them huh?
There is also another website.

www.educate-yourself.org...



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 07:28 PM
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It's to control and manipulate weather using HAARP. The chemtrails contain magnesium and aluminum. HAARP then sends billions of volts to said place to manipulate weather.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 07:34 PM
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Personal experience? OK.

I can't tell people what they are or aren't seeing but I'm not seeing anything. I live near an international airport. I see many aircraft in the sky but few, if any, leave any sort of trail. There are roughly 1000 flights per day, in and outbound.

I think, but I'm not sure, the reason for this is that the atmospheric conditions in my area just aren't conducive to the formation of contrails (I'm pretty far south). But since it is claimed chemtrails are not contrails why am I not seeing much of anything?



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by interestedalways
This is completely untrue. I don't believe that I have decided something is amiss based on feelings. My own experience was of lying in the park a couple of years ago and I observed at least two planes going back and forth (I made the assumption that it was the same two because of the frequency of flybys and the similiarity of the way the planes looked) as they continued to fly over they left the criss crossed, checkerboard, "grid" pattern above my head, it eventually dispersed into complete overhead coverage.

Most commercial aircraft look the same now, because they are all going to the more fuel efficient designs with two under wing engines. The main workhorse for the airlines used to be 727’s with the distinct three engines on the tail, now it’s the 737 family with the two underslung engines. B737’s, B757’s, B767’s, B777’s, B787’sA300’s, A310’s, A318’s, A319’s, A320’s, A321’s, and A330’s all look the same from the ground unless you know specific little differences between them. Some of these aircraft are even difficult to identify on the ground to experienced aviation professionals. The only way that I used to be able to tell an A300 from an 767 on the ground was by the shape of the fuselage where it met the tail.
As I explained above, the reason that they fly in grid and “X” patterns is due to following air routes and navigational beacons. Additionally they all tend to show up at the same time because of the way that airlines “bank” flights.


Originally posted by interestedalways
About an hour later I observed a slight "rainbow" colored shiny area in the sky that of course will be called a "sundog" by those who want to deny that anything unusual is ocurring in the sky. I looked up criteria for sundog at that time and it seemed that a sundog is most likely to appear around 4pm and has to do with the sun's position on the horizon.

This proves that it’s a natural phenomina that you are witnessing, and its nothing more then ice in the atmosphere created by the heat of the engines. The fact that you know what a sundog looks like, and that you can tell this is a sundog, should prove to you that it is formed from the same type of ice that naturally occurs. The only difference between them is that this one came as the result of a hot engine passing through cold, humid, air.


Originally posted by interestedalways
This is what made me start looking into this subject. NOT MY GUT, or any other part of my body, except maybe my BRAIN.

It has nothing to do with this?
Edit to remove link another poster has issue with, out of courtesy, despite its being a currently active thread on this forum.


Originally posted by interestedalways
Do you guys believe science is etched in stone and has no potential to change what is known as time goes by???

It depends on the science, we understand some processes quite thoroughly, and this is one of them.


Originally posted by interestedalways
Called out people, huh? Well isn't that special. This subject is far from over my freind, you yourself may well be surprised someday at what is found. Unfortunately most of us don't have our own private means to fly up and collect some crap that is floating around and labratory access to test it, but the time will come I hope that it is done.

unfortunately, it has already been done, but you all don’t believe the results because they show exactly what we are stating here…. Its ice!
Atmospheric Research
Brookhaven Scientists Sample the Skies
High-Tech Lab with Wings


Originally posted by interestedalways
This isn't about aviation, it is about our skies being filled with white cover that appears to come from airplanes.

Its VERY much about aviation, and its about being slapped in the face by people who think that aviation professionals would allow such a thing to happen, or even partake in it occurring.


Originally posted by interestedalways
Trust and believe, if I had all the money and peoples at my disposal to keep a BIG secret I could do it, just like those that know what is behind the trails are doing.

The one thing our government cannot do is keep secrets.



Originally posted by interestedalways
Open your minds, you might just learn something NEW!

Maybe you’re the one who should open your mind, considering the number of people with inside knowledge that are blatantly telling you this is not happening. As a matter of fact I dare you to go to an aviation forum and even try and bring this subject up…
Want some examples:

Chemtrails (funny stuff)
Pilotpip:
There's a show on Discovery right now called "Best Evidence". They're examining the whole "chemtrails" conspiracy theory. One lady from California in particular is a riot. She has a wall of pictures showing differnet 'chemtrail' styles. The show paid a lab to perform analysis on jet fuel samples from across the country. I'll let you guys guess what they found...

All I can say is wow. This is some funny stuff. If you get a chance I'd suggest taking an hour out of your day for a good laugh.


Chemtrails?
NE_Pilot:
I saw some pictures of the supposed chemtrails, and they looked like contrails. I personnaly think it is all crap, and just some guys poor understanding of meteorology, and have tried to explain that to some of these people, but they won't hear it, because contrails, by some unknown law, can only last a short time.

NE_Pilot:
Well, from what it seems, they don't think all contrails are chemtrails, just the ones that last more than 5 minutes.

I can imagine seeing these people sitting in lawn chairs, with tin foil hats on, and a timer, timing each contrail, then when it exccedes 5 minutes they start running and yelling about the government spraying them with chemicals. I kinda feel bad for them.

I thought I was the only one who had to deal with these people.



[edit on 10/8/2008 by defcon5]



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 



I believe when you pull something from an unrelated thread that is trying to assasinate someone's character it is called Trolling and isn't allowed on ATS.

If that is the best you can do, to pull something rather personal and stupid I posted completely unrelated to this thread when I had a bad week then I am highly dissappointed.

You have stooped low to make a point. Too bad for you. I could sift through your old posts and find a vulnerable moment you have had on here I am sure, but it doesn't have anything to do with Chemtrails.

I would call you an ugly name for your descretion, but hey...........I don't have the need to stoop low like you just did.




[edit on 7-10-2008 by interestedalways]



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 09:57 PM
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No, the German government admitted to using Chaff in an military exercise. Chaff is basically long strings of aluminum foil that are used to confuse radar locking missiles by creating another metallic object for them to lock onto. They have been using this since WWII. It is absolutely harmless to the general population, though it does funny things to radar systems. Here is a video on Chaff being deployed here where I live:



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by interestedalways
I believe when you pull something from an unrelated thread that is trying to assasinate someone's character it is called Trolling and isn't allowed on ATS.

Actually cross posting threads URL’s inside ATS is done all the time, and even the staff engage in it when they wish to show someone’s motivations or discrepancies in their stories. It is not trolling, and in fact shows your motivation to believe in this subject and support those who believe in it despite it having been put to bed on here many times.

Originally posted by interestedalways
If that is the best you can do, to pull something rather personal and stupid I posted completely unrelated to this thread when I had a bad week then I am highly dissappointed.

It does relate to this subject, because the topic of “Chemtrails” comes up in that thread multiple times. If you feel that pointing this out it is some sort of personal attack, then maybe you should not have posted it on a public forum. It is a well known fact that many Chemtrailers believe that the two subjects are interrelated despite there being ZERO proof of any connection.

Trolling by definition is coming into a forum and creating disharmony by posting simply to cause arguments, or posting known untrue information.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 



Why don't you just leave it alone. You know exactly what and why you posted that.

I must be threatening your chemtrail lies in some way or you wouldn't have gone to the level of a personal attack.

Any respect I had for your post history here on ATS is now......well History.

But it is all good, Defcon............Yeah I made a mistake by posting something I should have kept private until it passed, but I didn't. I won't worry too much about it now. Life goes on.................but it is complicated as is what is occuring in the skies above our heads...........Complicated.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by stardust1955
Anyway, you need to do more investigating before debunking. The pilots of these planes even call themselves "Sky Spiders". Go ahead, google it, and also, go to William Thomas.com, and google chemtrails. It is a conspiracy, it is not a figment of our collective imagination. Even google "what chemtrails really are", you can also go to the "Freeman Perspective" he has also done a lot of research on this. Well, there's my perspective and you have every right to state your opinion, cause this is what this site is for, I'm just stating mine and my experiences.

Maybe then you can explain this…
I used to live about 10 miles north of the two parallel runways that were used by 90% of the arrivals and departures, R36L & R36R. All the traffic in those areas was funneling into or out of the airport, it is not somewhere where they would allow someone to intentionally place a visual obstruction. Anyway, the sky up there is constantly covered in persistent contrails when it gets a bit colder out. Those contrails would form into clouds, same as these supposed chemtrails do. While I was living there I also worked as a supervisor for that airport, and I was responsible for all the ramp procedures for an airline. Therefore, I know for an absolute fact that those trails were coming from aircraft at our airport, and I know for an absolute fact that none of them are spraying anything. Airports are like small cities where most everyone knows each other, and they borrow equipment, hang out, swap gossip, play cards, go to the bars after work, etc. There would be no hiding this kind of thing if it were in fact true.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 10:47 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


Defcon, you were 'harsh' to Interested!
You know this topic has been hashed and re-hashed and not many change their mind!
Also, not many of us claim that commercial airliners are participating, so, why claim it's been thoroughly de-bunked and
criticize interested as if she is a troll?



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 11:04 PM
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reply to post by interestedalways
 

First off, I removed the cross link quite a while back, when you first complained, despite its being valid to this thread, because I am an honorable kind of person. At this point your playing the sympathy card to win over opinion, despite the fact that you posted that in a public forum. That does not make me the bad guy, considering that most people would assume that if you were going to take such offence to something you would not have posted it in the first place. Now all the drama aside, don’t you think that I get sick of being basically called a chemspraying, debunker? You think that all the aviation folks out there, who work in hazardous environments, who spend years training to protect the public, are a little bit sick of people accusing them of doing something wrong?

Oh, and one more little fact, considering that I now work in the medical field (specifically with pulmonologists), chemtrailers hurt people. Whether they know it or not, they cause far more damage to the public then any aviation person ever has. The way in which they hurt people is by making them believe in fantasy rather then face facts and treat medical conditions properly. I have had multiple U2U conversations with folks here that either have medical problems themselves, or their children do, who do not seek proper medical treatment because they think airplanes are causing their problems. They are busy building chembusters rather then getting breathing treatments. Personally I think that all the Cornicom type sites need to be taken down, replaced with an apology to the public, and prosecuted for fraud.

To sum up, I am not the bad guy here!



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 


See above post.
OH, and I was not the one who made accusations of trollery.

As a matter of fact, how was I harsh?
By linking to a thread where she posted on this board?
What are you people thinking?
Besides being WAY WAY off topic at this point.

[edit on 10/7/2008 by defcon5]




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