Palin: Obama Is ‘Palling Around With Terrorists’

Since for some reason the last post was in italics, weird. Reagan supported Annenberg and Annenberg placed William Ayres on the committee. Therefore Ronald Reagan supported domestic terrorism. So all you republicans are saying RR hated America and wanted it destroyed. Or will you now shut up about Ayers since your man RR was a supporter and follower of Ayers in the same way you claim Obama is.

reply to post by jsobecky


OK, this is my last post on this issue. I never condoned the actions of militant radicals then and I still don't now. My point here is to distinguish the difference between a militant radical and a terrorist due to the emotions that the term terrorist brings with it since 9/11.

Weatherman, known colloquially as the Weathermen and later the Weather Underground Organization, was an American radical left organization founded in 1969 by leaders and members who split from the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) (or claimed to be the actual SDS).

...

The bombing attacks were mostly against government buildings, along with several banks. Most were preceded by communiqués that provided evacuation warnings, along with statements of the particular matter to which their attacks were allegedly responding.

Source.

Again, I did not and do not condone the actions of this group, but I do understand their motivations. It was not to terrorize the public, it was to get the government back in the hands of the people, something ironically familiar today. Terrorists do not warn you that they are going to blow up a building, militant radicals do. To further understand their point of view:

We felt that doing nothing in a period of repressive violence is itself a form of violence. That's really the part that I think is the hardest for people to understand. If you sit in your house, live your white life and go to your white job, and allow the country that you live in to murder people and to commit genocide, and you sit there and you don't do anything about it, that's violence.
Naomi Jaffe

These were college students who saw injustice and reacted to it. Let's not forget that the government at the time was equally violent to students who protested the war:

The Kent State shootings, also known as the May 4 massacre or Kent State massacre,[2][3][4] occurred at Kent State University in the city of Kent, Ohio, and involved the shooting of students by members of the Ohio National Guard on Monday, May 4, 1970. Four students were killed and nine others were wounded, one of whom suffered permanent paralysis.[5]

Some of the students who were shot had been protesting against the American invasion of Cambodia, which President Richard Nixon announced in a television address on April 30. However, other students who were shot had merely been walking nearby or observing the protest from a distance.[6][7]

Source.

I would also argue that they took the Declaration of Independence to heart:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Source.

These students considered themselves at war with the establishment and that the establishment was at war with them. They saw a corrupt system and felt it was their duty to do something about it. America was not their enemy, the government was. They would have never considered bombing a school. Al Qaeda would not hesitate to.

To the poster who claimed that this group didn't kill anyone, that is not entirely true. Read the source for the above. Again, I did not nor do not support the actions of the Weathermen, but using terrorist to describe them is just not accurate and is very inflamatory.

[edit on 11-10-2008 by JaxonRoberts]

So what you're saying is that Obama pals around with militant radicals who want to overthrow the American system.

That sounds sooo much better.

reply to post by jsobecky


No, that Obama has political ties (albeit loose ones) to a former militant radical, who is now a University Professor and active Democrat. Do you consider yourself a subversive? By your definition, you are because you are a member of ATS, and there are subversives here, some even calling for militant radicalism.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
BACK TO THE RACES -

Article Here Ayers/Obama connection deeper and longer then most people realize.

This is a pretty good article by FactCheck.org if you want to get past the lies and exaggerations from the McCain camp and other anti Obama sources!

"He Lied" About Bill Ayers? - factcheck.org

In a TV ad, McCain says Obama "lied" about his association with William Ayers, a former bomb-setting, anti-war radical from the 1960s and '70s. We find McCain's claim to be groundless. New details have recently come to light, but nothing Obama said previously has been shown to be false.

In a Web ad and in repeated attacks from the stump, McCain describes the two as associates, and Palin claims they "pal around" together. But so far as is known, their relationship was never very close. An Obama spokesman says they last saw each other in a chance encounter on the street more than a year ago.

McCain says in an Internet ad that the two "ran a radical 'education' foundation" in Chicago. But the supposedly "radical" group was supported by a Republican governor and included on its board prominent local civic leaders, including one former Nixon administration official who has given $1,500 to McCain's campaign this year. Education Week says the group's work "reflected mainstream thinking" among school reformers. The group was the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, started by a $49 million grant from the Annenberg Foundation, which was established by the publisher Walter Annenberg, a prominent Republican whose widow, Leonore, is a contributor to the McCain campaign.

If you want to get away from all the Republican campaign rhetoric, this article will shed some light on the truth about the Obama - Ayers "connection"!

And here's another article for those who think "Obama and Ayers ran a radical education foundation together." (at least that's what McCain believes and put in his ad!)

Not a Radical Group, and Ayers Didn't Run It

Now, was the foundation radical?

The McCain campaign cited several pieces of evidence for that allegation, including a 1995 invitation from the foundation for applications from schools "that want to make radical changes in the way teachers teach and students learn." The campaign appears to have confused two different definitions of the word "radical." Clearly the invitation referred to "a considerable departure from the usual or traditional," rather than "advocating extreme measures to retain or restore a political state of affairs."

I guess the McCain camp didn't realize that there are two DIFFERENT definitions to the word "radical"!

I just think it's because McCain didn't like the part that said, "want to make radical changes"!

And as for them running this "radical education foundation" together?

However, Ayers "was never on the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge," and he "never made a decision programmatically or had a vote," Rolling said.

"He (Ayers) was at board meetings — which, by the way, were open — as a guest," Rolling said. "That is not anything near Bill Ayers and Barack Obama running the Chicago Annenberg Challenge."

The McCain campaign can really pile it high!



[edit on 10/11/2008 by Keyhole]

And this is also a pretty bad article, for McCain!

Prosecuting Weathermen

As the lead federal prosecutor of the Weathermen in the 1970s (I was then chief of the criminal division in the Eastern District of Michigan and took over the Weathermen prosecution in 1972), I am amazed and outraged that Senator Barack Obama is being linked to William Ayers’s terrorist activities 40 years ago when Mr. Obama was, as he has noted, just a child.

Although I dearly wanted to obtain convictions against all the Weathermen, including Bill Ayers, I am very pleased to learn that he has become a responsible citizen.

Because Senator Obama recently served on a board of a charitable organization with Mr. Ayers cannot possibly link the senator to acts perpetrated by Mr. Ayers so many years ago.

I do take issue with the statement in your news article that the Weathermen indictment was dismissed because of “prosecutorial misconduct.” It was dismissed because of illegal activities, including wiretaps, break-ins and mail interceptions, initiated by John N. Mitchell, attorney general at that time, and W. Mark Felt, an F.B.I. assistant director.

William C. Ibershof

Mill Valley, Calif., Oct. 8, 2008

reply to post by Sublime620


For your viewing pleasure.

Barack Roll



You didn't hear this from me.

Darn you!!!!!!!!!! i've been rick rolled once again!!!!!!!!! haha

actually i've seen this before. Thanks for posting it....nice to get a laugh in the middle of all the chaos on the message boards.


This clip is almost worthy of it's own thread. Good times.
Two thumbs up


[edit on 11-10-2008 by David9176]

reply to post by Keyhole

Originally posted by Keyhole
And as for them running this "radical education foundation" together?



However, Ayers "was never on the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge," and he "never made a decision programmatically or had a vote," Rolling said.

"He (Ayers) was at board meetings — which, by the way, were open — as a guest," Rolling said. "That is not anything near Bill Ayers and Barack Obama running the Chicago Annenberg Challenge."



The McCain campaign can really pile it high!

Dissembling at it's best...

Chicago Annenberg Challenge

Beginnings

The three co-authors of Chicago's winning Annenberg Challenge $49.2 million grant proposal were:[18][19]

1. William Ayers, associate professor of education at the University of Illinois at Chicago; co-director of the Small Schools Workshop; co-director of the Chicago Forum for School Change—an affiliate of the Coalition of Essential Schools;[20] chairman of the Alliance for Better Chicago Schools (ABCs) coalition;[21][22] former Chicago assistant deputy mayor for education (1989–1990);[22] brother of John Ayers, executive director (1994–2004) of Leadership for Quality Education (an affiliate of the Civic Committee of the Commercial Club of Chicago) and former associate director (1987–1994) of the Civic Committee of the Commercial Club of Chicago; son of Thomas Ayers, former president (1964–1980), chairman and CEO (1973–1980) of Commonwealth Edison and former vice president (1980) of the Chicago School Board
:
:
[edit] BeginningsAt a meeting with Simmons and Patricia Albjerg Graham, Deborah Leff suggested that Barack Obama would make a good board chairman.[37] After meeting and being impressed by Obama, Graham told Obama that she wanted him to be chairman of the Board of Directors.[37] Obama said that he would agree to serve as chairman if Graham would be vice chairman, to which Graham agreed.[37]

en.wikipedia.org...

Ayers introduced Obama to the Hyde Park crowd in his (Ayer's) living room and launched his (obama's) political career. Ayers got the money from Annenberg and funneled it through Obama to groups that promoted radical extremism.

The only person I ever read who died from the bombings was a member of the group who killed themself when making a bomb. It would be like calling OBL a terrorist because a Taliban member blew themself up while making a bomb and ignoring the whole 9/11 attacks which may or may not have been OBL since a lot of people think its the government looking for an excuse to invade the middle east in an oil grab that has gained the oil companies RECORD profits. So still, According to JSO and other republicans on here, Ronald Reagan thought Ayers was a legend of legends, a God on Earth, in the same way they tie Obama to Ayers. They are calling Ronald an Anti American terrorist loving radical. AND THEY STILL IGNORE SARAH PALIN TELLING A GROUP OF TERRORISTS TO KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!

reply to post by jsobecky


jsobecky....I am really having a problem with your post.

You 'quote' very clearly the facts that Sen. Obama agreed to be on this Bi-Partisan Board, there in Illinois.

What is more to the 'point' is that the knowledge of William Ayers' activities, back in the 1960s....when I was about 5 years old, and when it has been acknowledged that Barack obama was about 8 years old...can NOT in any way be ascribed to Sen. Obama, any more than they can be ascribed to ME....or to Pres. Bush!!!

Look.....jsobecky.....I once flew then candidate Jerry Brown, in the 1970s, on a campaign tour. (I even have a (terrible) photo of myself, with him).

So, does that mean I 'associated' with him, when I was about 20 years old????

Originally posted by jsobecky

Ayers got the money from Annenberg and funneled it through Obama to groups that promoted radical extremism.

Can you show some credible sources that state where any of this money went anywhere besides the Chicago Annenberg Challenge?

Or that it was "funneled" through Obama, away from the Annenberg Challenge, to promote "radical extremism"?

And what kind of "radical extremism" did these "groups" promote?

Credible sources are always helpful when trying to establish the truth!

Again, the word "radical" was linked to Obama by the McCain camp only due to the fact that they wanted "to make radical changes in the way teachers teach and students learn."

Scary stuff there!

Please see this post again about how the word "radical" is being used!
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by jsobecky
Ayers introduced Obama to the Hyde Park crowd in his (Ayer's) living room and launched his (obama's) political career.

Here is the source from Wikipedia for this piece of information you gave in this quote. (source #37)

Remember now, this is the source for Wikipedia from which you have quoted above!

Obama and ’60s Bomber: A Look Into Crossed Paths

... at a lunchtime meeting about school reform in a Chicago skyscraper, Barack Obama met Mr. Ayers, by then an education professor. Their paths have crossed sporadically since then, at a coffee Mr. Ayers hosted for Mr. Obama’s first run for office, on the schools project and a charitable board, and in casual encounters as Hyde Park neighbors.
******SKIP******
But the two men do not appear to have been close. Nor has Mr. Obama ever expressed sympathy for the radical views and actions of Mr. Ayers, whom he has called “somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8.”
******SKIP******
In fact, according to several people involved, Mr. Ayers played no role in Mr. Obama’s appointment. Instead, it was suggested by Deborah Leff, then president of the Joyce Foundation, a Chicago-based group whose board Mr. Obama, a young lawyer, had joined the previous year. At a lunch with two other foundation heads, Patricia A. Graham of the Spencer Foundation and Adele Simmons of the MacArthur Foundation, Ms. Leff suggested that Mr. Obama would make a good board chairman, she said in an interview. Mr. Ayers was not present and had not suggested Mr. Obama, she said.
******SKIP******
It was later in 1995 that Mr. Ayers and Ms. Dohrn hosted the gathering, in their town house three blocks from Mr. Obama’s home, at which State Senator Alice J. Palmer, who planned to run for Congress, introduced Mr. Obama to a few Democratic friends as her chosen successor. That was one of several such neighborhood events as Mr. Obama prepared to run, said A. J. Wolf, the 84-year-old emeritus rabbi of KAM Isaiah Israel Synagogue, across the street from Mr. Obama’s current house.

So, it isn't very clear to me how Ayers "launched" Obama's political career?

Oh, and where was the money "funneled"?

Found that out in this source for the Wikipedia piece you quoted from also!

Archives of the Chicago Annenberg project, which funneled the money to networks of schools from 1995 to 2000, show both men attended six board meetings early in the project — Mr. Obama as chairman, Mr. Ayers to brief members on school issues.

Doesn't sound like "radical extemist" groups to me!

[edit on 10/12/2008 by Keyhole]

Originally posted by jsobecky

Ayers introduced Obama to the Hyde Park crowd in his (Ayer's) living room and launched his (obama's) political career.

And here's another interview where Obama states where his political career was launched!

Obama Calls Ayers Charges 'Smears'

Sen. Barack Obama says in a new ad that he launched his first campaign at the Ramada Inn in Chicago, not the living room of former terrorist William Ayers, as Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) says.

And here's Obama's new ad defending himself against the McCain camp smears!


And here's another article on how Obama's political career started!

Making It

Obama’s campaign began without much excitement. He had ties to so many of the city’s élite factions that the local press described him as “a well-connected attorney.” In August, the Chicago Sun-Times noted that Valerie Jarrett was hosting “a private autograph party” for Obama. His memoir was turning him into a figure of some acclaim. The same month, the Hyde Park Herald, which later called the book “a local indie hit,” ran a flattering profile that highlighted a theme from “Dreams”: how Chicago helped Obama end a long journey of self-discovery, a narrative that helped defuse any notion that Obama was a carpetbagger. “I came home in Chicago,” he told the newspaper. “I began to see my identity and my individual struggles were one with the struggles that folks face in Chicago.”

A month later, on September 19th, Obama invited some two hundred supporters to a lakefront Ramada Inn to announce his candidacy for the State Senate, and some of what he said sounded very much like the Obama of recent months. “Politicians are not held to highest esteem these days,” he told the crowd. “They fall somewhere lower than lawyers. . . . I want to inspire a renewal of morality in politics. I will work as hard as I can, as long as I can, on your behalf.” Alice Palmer introduced Obama, and an account in the Hyde Park Herald quoted more from her speech than from his; it was, after all, chiefly her endorsement that certified him as a plausible candidate. “In this room, Harold Washington announced for mayor,” Palmer said. “Barack Obama carries on the tradition of independence in this district. . . . His candidacy is a passing of the torch.”

And in this article you will se the names of the people who actually helped Obama launch his political career. Names like Toni Preckwinkle, Ivory Mitchell, Alice Palmer, Sam and Martha Ackerman, Judson Miner, Bettylu Saltzman and many other of what they call "the elite" of Chicago. His relationships with these these people came from his work in Project Vote and other community projects.

This is all it has to say about Ayers "launching" Obama's political career.

Palmer’s imprimatur was also helpful with a small group of Hyde Park activists, some of whom she asked to hold fund-raising coffees for Obama. At her suggestion, Sam and Martha Ackerman, who were leaders of Independent Voters of Illinois, hosted a coffee at their home. Unlike the Dobrys, they insisted on a meeting with Obama before backing him, and their support was important enough for him to spend an hour with them in their dining room, submitting to an interview. Their reaction to him was a common one. “I don’t think he said he wanted to run for President, but he indicated that he was into public service for the long haul,” Martha Ackerman told me. “I remember very clearly I said to Sam, ‘If this guy is for real, he could be the first African-American President of the United States.’ ”

Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn, another activist Hyde Park couple, also held an event for Obama.

Sounds to me like all Ayers did was to "host a coffee" fundraiser for Obama AFTER he had already "launched" himself into politics with other peoples help!

Sure doesn't sound as menacing and problematic as you paint it!

[edit on 10/12/2008 by Keyhole]