Who won tonights debate?

reply to post by mikesingh


I personally do not think her raising a family meanwhile being a political leader is an issue at all. Why isn't this an issue for Obama then? Yes it would be sexist to discriminate against her in this regard. How many leaders historically were also raising a family?

[edit on 5-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


again... the natural method of feeding a newborn comes from the mother... therefore nature demanded the early bonds of childhood to be with the mother, not the father. Just because artificial means exist to feed the babies does not negate the natural order.

reply to post by undo


Could you ladies just oil up and jump into a ring or something? Does that make you happy UNDO? Does that fit your twisted vision that all men are pigs and just want to keep the woman down?

I don't believe in making comments like that. I believe the best person should get the job, irrelevant of gender or race. You need to find some sort of release for that hatred and look at the facts about Sarah Palin. Her hometown is $20 millions deeper in the hole, still paying for a lengthy legal battle over a land dispute because she ordered construction on land that didn't belong to the municipality and was in court trying to resolve the land claim dispute. But her term as mayor was ending and she wanted her legacy Sports Complex finished or close to by the time she left office. Good way to get votes if your planning on running for Governor. Only cost her constituents $20 million dollars in spending.

Read my above post with links to sources on how her and Todd are avoiding subpoenas that were issued pursuant to the whole "Troopergate" scandal with claims off abuse of office pursuant to the firing of Sarah Palin's sisters ex-husband. But if the McCain slogan is change and changing Washington and the abuses of power. Then she is involved in the above scandal. True or Not is not the point why not put her money where her mouth is and appear at these hearings with Todd. Or are they worried that the testimony will be damaging if they dare even tell a little bit of the truth?

Then there is the fact that she is claiming "Executive Privilege" to keep emails away from the FOIA process and speculation is that Todd is "CC'ed" on a lot of them. If those emails are pertinent and contain the business of the State of Alaska then she has no right not to release them. Todd by the way is an employee of BP America

Palin Tax Returns 2006 and 2007

Is this the kind of person you want as VP or maybe even President. She has even stated that she would like more power than Dick Cheney tried to grab for the VP. Even though she may have not known that Cheney's efforts were shot down.

Although Liberal, some good points are Brought up

Bush-Cheney Power Grab Unprecedented

Need I go on, I'll again reiterate my point. You UNDO use an awfully wide brush when you paint that "all men are sexist" stroke. I vote for the candidate that gets the job done, period! I don't care if they're green! If I like what they are campaigning on in my riding first, I then take a look at what their National Party is campaigning on. If I like it I'll vote for them. Now I've been voting in Canada for 15 years now, I've voted for different parties and I would say I'm a Conservative Liberal. I think we need a true Free-Market economy without a Central Bank(SHHH!:cool with the business community bound to follow prudent and sound accounting and business practices, any found abusing that will be allowed to fail. No gov't help. Small Federal Government, more power to Provinces so they can build a strong economy between themselves. And I believe that every citizen deserves free health care, no limit on how much it cost. However, ours needs improving it's not 100% perfect but at least Canadians don't go bankrupt because they got sick.

Sarah Palin and John McCain can't be trusted. This is his last shot at it, he's going for broke. You can see it in his campaign, his campaign ads are some of the sleaziest, both sides have hit new lows. But some of his are just outright lies, but you know some diehard Reps. seeing that ad are saying "Hell Ya". She want's even more power than Dick Cheney tried to grab! That's like going to heaven and telling God to move over, the "New GOD" is here.

Her Mayoral legacy Sports Complex was in fact a $20 million dollar Governor Election Campaign fund slid under the taxpayers nose in the guise of something for them. Because I'm sure with her popularity as Mayor she could more than count on their vote for Governor after giving them this

and also this, but of course the people wanted it. It looks awesome, I'm assuming that the people of Wasilla didn't know she sought higher office. A little slight of hand perhaps.

Don't let her fool you with the "I want change, I'm just like you, a hockey mom, I want to fight corruption in Washington and Wall Street". She is a very clever and manipulative political operator. She knows how to connect with average American's and then she uses that trust she instantly has with them to slide things under the rug when they're not looking.

All politicians are dirty to some degree or another. But she's already knee deep in abuse of power allegations which are looking more truthful day after day. And it must not be good or they wouldn't be dodging the subpoenas. Her I can understand a little, but if they really wanted to show the McCain/Palin ticket is the ticket that was going to bring real change to Washington, both of them would testify, public record and all, let the people make up their mind if it was acceptable or not. Because isn't that what their Ticket is all about? Are the Republican really going to bring you out of the state your country is in? Both are pretty much on step and her views make Attila the Hun look Liberal.

ALWAYS REMEMBER BOB MARLEY'S WORDS!

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery...none but ourselves can free up our minds" Bob Marley- Redemption Song

The above lyric is so important people. Open your eyes to the big picture, don't let the magic show distract you. David Copperfield could make an elephant disappear but the McCain/Palin ticket won't be able to make the elephant of a country you have left after the same policies are used another war is started and you have no more "Credit backed by US Government" stamp anymore. Nobody will buy anymore of your debt, those that have lot's are unloading as much as they can without making things worse.

AS I said above remember what BOB says, do your own homework. But Look At Both S

oh i don't believe all men are sexist. what i'm saying, and i'll say it again is, the proof is in the pudding, we ain't ever had one, and if the democrats who don't like her have anything to say about it, we never will, and same goes for the repubs. it's okay. really. maybe it's a good thing if we never have a female in a leadership position. if any little thing went wrong, women everywhere would have to endure the constant woman bashing for decades. we still get blamed for something eve did in the garden, and that was like over 6000 years ago, so yeah, might be a bad idea.

Originally posted by skeptic1
reply to post by mikesingh

 

Obama has small children as well, so why is this question never asked of him? One could easily say that he is putting his aspirations of being President over the welfare of his children?

Oh? But it's Mrs Obama who will be at home whilst her husband runs the country! Or does he do the baby sitting? Nope. So this comparison between Obama and Palin is invalid!

As I said, it's the mother who is supposed to be the friend, philosopher and guide! That's an age old tradition as men were usually busy on the battle fields fighting wars of conquest.

Cheers!

by the way, this thread has become a source of psychological abuse. everytime i read it, i hate myself a little bit more than before. it's like...whatever your particular belief happens to be about the hereafter, heaven, karma, fate, whatever, i just hope it's easier going on the other side, cause this female life thing, is frankly, tough. so much more is expected of us, it's unfathomable that any woman has managed to succeed at anything. and it hasn't been just select men causing the problem, but other women as well. i dunno what it all means, but i do surely hope that i won't have to be female forever because it can really suck raw tomatoes (not always). i guess i shouldn't complain about the way the Creator created me, but whew...

ouch.

Originally posted by undo
by the way, this thread has become a source of psychological abuse.

Nope! Says who? No abuse here, just the facts of the case!

everytime i read it, i hate myself a little bit more than before.

Eeeep! Relax! You're smart, good lookin' and accomplished! You even run a good web site, for crying out loud! So why do you want to hate yourself? Sheesh!

it's like...whatever your particular belief happens to be about the hereafter, heaven, karma, fate, whatever, i just hope it's easier going on the other side, cause this female life thing, is frankly, tough.

You bet it is. But then they also say that the other side of the fence always looks greener! You don’t know what it’s like being in wolf’s clothing! Working your ass off for those millions ain’t a walk in the park!

so much more is expected of us

Huh? Says who?

it's unfathomable that any woman has managed to succeed at anything, and it hasn't been just select men causing the problem.

Hmmm..Hope you ain’t meaning me!!

dunno what it all means

Never mind! Ignorance is bliss!!

but i do surely hope that i won't have to be female forever because it can really suck raw tomatoes (not always). i guess i shouldn't complain about the way the Creator created me, but whew... ouch.

If you stop complaining you just may become a male in the next innings!

And as the saying goes: Learn to smile even if you’re screwed!!

Cheers!



[edit on 5-10-2008 by mikesingh]

reply to post by mikesingh


i would prefer just being myself, but frankly, being myself and female is a difficult business. you don't want to be female in the next inning, take my word for it. i use to complain about men who would talk to my breasts instead of my face. then i lost one. now they try to pretend like i don't have a chest at all. odd how things like that work out , isn't it? but surely that wasn't some stroke of karma, because the pain was outrageous and now i look like severly damaged goods. but then i think that matches the psychological profile atm. it could be worse (in fact, it has been worse).

i would just like to state, for the record, if sarah's life was anythign like mine, that woman has went threw the wringer and back again, many times and is probably so battle worn that i'm not sure how she could handle the white house. i remember looking at hillary and thinking...how's she put up with that lifestyle, year in and year out. no way would i want to live under that kind of scrutiny all the time. it borders on being inhumane.





[edit on 5-10-2008 by undo]

reply to post by undo


I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I'm sorry but after reading this thread it seemed to me you looked at this thread and this issue with a narrow focus.

The point I was trying to make is that you're letting this issue cloud your Judgement. If you're voting for Change to end the mess in Washington and Wall Street then look at the underlying issues affecting the credibility of her promises. She's in a wee spot of trouble back home. I've been trying to point out that she uses her gifts well and she sneeks some through every once and while.

If your voting for McCain/Palin because you would like to see a woman in that office. Then I'm sorry to say I think you are wasting your vote and any woman that votes for that reason is wasting their vote also. I mean no offense to anyone. I'm saying that Sarah Palin is already knee deep in Bush-like "Executive Power" priviliges, you don't think like me, so you're fired, I don't care if you're the best in your field/position. If you want more of that then go for it. Make an intelligent decision, don't vote on emotion, political affiliation, race, gender, religion. Vote for a person who you have done lot's of research on and don't be afraid to look at both sides of a story. Even if it contradicts with what you normally would think, don't be afraid to change. Our world has changed rapidly over the last decade and in a lot of senses not for the better.

We in Canada have a Federal Election

Originally posted by justamomma

again... the natural method of feeding a newborn comes from the mother... therefore nature demanded the early bonds of childhood to be with the mother, not the father. Just because artificial means exist to feed the babies does not negate the natural order.

I fully 100% encourage natural breast milk from the mother, and strongly oppose baby formula...

I was breast fed until I was 4!

My point is that I don't see a reason why she couldn't do both.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy My point is that I don't see a reason why she couldn't do both.

Of course you can't. You aren't and never will be a mother.



[edit on 5-10-2008 by justamomma]

Originally posted by undo
oh i don't believe all men are sexist. what i'm saying, and i'll say it again is, the proof is in the pudding, we ain't ever had one

The fact we have never had one in the past is the result of that sexist discrimination. Times are changing. Many many many modern men in US society are able to evaluate these candidates without sexism tainting their vision.

Is that the majority? I don't know. My frame of reference could be biased. I live in a blue state and blue states are consistently progressive towards equality for women

and if the democrats who don't like her have anything to say about it, we never will, and same goes for the repubs.

Yes, the same does go for the Repubs. Do you not think there was sexist interpretations against Hillary from the Red side during the primaries?

[edit on 5-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by justamomma

Of course you can't. You aren't and never will be a mother.

I was raised in a care home for the medically fragile, and helped raise 15 + children over time, the majority in which were multi-year placements, some permanent placements. I think I qualify as as close as a dude can get though!


[edit on 5-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy Do you not think there was sexist interpretations against Hillary from the Red side during the primaries?

Actually it was quite right the way the Hillary got treated and it is quite right the way Palin is getting treated now. To say otherwise is ACTUALLY what sexism is. Male politicians are and have been subjected to harsh criticism and questioning concerning their credentials ... wanna play in the big boy games, better be able to handle the big boy rules!


[edit on 5-10-2008 by justamomma]

reply to post by justamomma


In all fairness I left that ambiguous. We would have to reference a specific thing to discuss whether it was or was not sexist.

I understand what you are saying...

Put another way: If a man says "I would never punch a women in the face" that is sexist.

[edit on 5-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


You HELPED.. was it demanded to help and where else was your focus? anything as demanding as helping to run a country on top of helping with 15 children? I was the main caregiver for about 10 hours a day to 14 two year olds and still, it does not come close to comparing to being a mother of 2 elementary aged sons 24/7.


[edit on 5-10-2008 by justamomma]

Originally posted by mikesingh
As I said, it's the mother who is supposed to be the friend, philosopher and guide! That's an age old tradition as men were usually busy on the battle fields fighting wars of conquest.

Some people are afraid McCain might be too old!...

Perhaps the same level of caution should be used against that age old tradition

I don't want to elect a President to carry out yesterdays. I want a different kind of tomorrow.

Originally posted by Lucid LunacyI understand what you are saying...

Put another way: If a man says "I would never punch a women in the face" that is sexist.

Basically, politics is an alpha dog concept... so yes, the above would be true if a woman said she could handle a boxing fight as well as a man. He would have every right to throw punches in order to win. Anything less is sexism. If a woman thinks she can do it as good as a man in any area, then it is on her to prove as much just as it would be on a man to prove as much if he thought he could fill a woman's natural role as well as she could.