Another school shooting in Finland happening right now

hmm.. Monday I made forum text Iltalehti news online forum. There was strange bible text predection that 22-23 September will be terrorist act in US or UK?

I watched world news very carefully. But 300km from my hometown we had this terrible "terrorist-attack". :-(

Originally posted by dahl

Hey man,

You must listen to the advice from janusfin.


I can somehow relate to what you said about dying in such way. But it will cause more damage than we wanted to. It will effect the lives of many. It only encourages more damage to come and there will be no end to it.

as much as I would like to take action for the strange thoughts in my head, I always remind myself that I am better than the destructive fool inside my head. There is so much in life that I want to experience. I hope you seek more than hating people. You must break the cycle!

Just know that I took the time to write this. and I could be that guy walking down the street or just basically anyone. Like janusfin said, you gotta look at the good in people and by showing your kindness, maybe they will do so too.

take care dude.

and things continue. Today ( wednesday ) a school has been just evacuated because of a bomb thread. Only one news source is covering it.

www.iltasanomat.fi...


I think it was just some idiot teenagers making a bomb threat using internet. Situation seems to be over, I guess. Hopefully these idiots will be punished

[edit on 24-9-2008 by finallianstallion]

That's true. But why was the accident unacceptable? Was it outside of the school's dress code? The school isn't talking. IMO, they have to have a better reason than "It made me uncomfortable"...

To this boy, perhaps that's the most patriotic thing he could think of. There is no profanity, no nakedness, it's not too short and his boxers aren't showing... I'd be asking what exactly about the gun goes against school code.

If it said, "State - A Terrorist's Worst Enemy" or "Marja Halonen can't use a Computer", would there be a problem? Did the school tell them it had to be a "positive" message?

I'm a gun supporter, but if this was my boy, I'd be asking some questions.

Source:

www.iltalehti.fi...

Police is telling they can't look You-tube or IRC-Gallery (where is finnish young people communitys and profiles). Connection is blocked!

Very stupid thing..

reply to post by dahl


hey,

irony

you ve got it wrong.
i said it, because it a logical asumption for randomness of that kind , just a curiuos why ? ,
you acomplish nothing with that kind of an act , not one step forward, youve just helped yourself in taking one step back if that is whats on your mind.

why want something of that nature.

no one wants a random sprea of killings just because some fellow has it all wrong or didnt have a sandbox or should have taken a sabbat year off and just looked around life, done something usefull and diffrent , something people benefit from in a nonharmfull way.

the way you put your self on the cross is not even suitable for an argumet that youve put yourself on the cross, it is just an act of self-pitty wich is very low.

what i meant was that if the fellow acturly had spoken or counciled about his instability or insecurity in society to someone he might have been a diffrent person
or even tried to think a moment about what he is acturly accomplishing with his deads, i bet he would have come to the same conclution , .

nothing , absolutly nothing ,

and nothing is something unwanted at this point, something not usefull in anyway , not for you,
not for me, not for my neigbours cats tupperware drinking cup, no one will gain anything from it.

why then act out that kind of cowardness towards someone outside of your life or someone you know,
im sorry but that has to be the most idiotic thing ever imagiend , sorry for harsh words.
just beacause ,
lets say: "you" feel uncomfortable with your life, you then have to avenge it on someone else ?
why, what are you acomplishing ,

why are you so apathetic towards life ,

(with apathy i mean Complete lack of emotion or motivation about a person, activity, or object; depression; lack of interest or enthusiasm; disinterest)

have you been hurt ? have youve slept well ? did you eat any berries ? have you tried s&m ?

there are plenty of things to do besides gaining someone elses hatred just because you feel low.

go read a book, live life, enjoy something new you can see or feel , be diffirent ,make new friends if your old ones dont understand you or hurt you, eat sushi , start saving money for that trip to the amazons where lightly dress people offer you ayawaska , just dont hurt anyone.

even alister crowley said that
- thou shalt do as thou shalt will as long as no blood will be spilt,
and that fellow, my friend went to places we mostly imagien or dream about or read in books,
now he can be considred a real nut case , but at the same time he climbed K2 and was a scottish chess champion, had wierd rituals in the pyramids and was loved and hated while alive,
well in some cases but that besides the point, and i hope you get my point im trying to deliver.

have the freedom to participate in dialogue with someone eles without getting angry about the diffrences in world view ,
accept that everyone dosent like apples and prefers bannanas instead,
but holding a grudge against someone just because he eats bannanas is pretty childish.

why do something that does more nothing then just do nothing and acturly accomplish something

do yoga , bake a cake , score a chick if thats what your into, score a guy if thats what you prefere,
live a life in selibacy if it even pleases you more.

im sorry but if you are going to random yourself , why dont you just random in private.

i mean, you wouldent even gain that hatered you are speaking about,
just an empty look from the mass as to why because most people will forgive for not understood
your haterd towards your self.

one thing i can give you as advice on top of this is that if your life feels like a rat race, you have to change it, the change must come from yourself, others can be blamed partly for it but for the most of the time its your own change that makes your life feel better or worse.

if it makes you feel any better we can u2u and swap horrorstories about life , and trust me theres plently of them , many of them might not be that entertaining but it might shed some light on what can bring you down and how you get back up and on track with your life.


sincierly Zerbot565

reply to post by dahl


what you said makes sense, kind of off topic... DAH!

Humans have so much potential that they are overlooking. Being controlled by a Government thats soul purpose is to make sure people such as yourself with bad intentions dont do the things they want to do. But the truth is they distract the good things that you want to do for the world too. They hinder you from being able to do the good things I can feel that you want to do. It then turns to anger and non understanding. You cannot cope with the world anymore because it has become so distant in undertanding. Why does a world of humans act so inhumane? Good question. I think it is the very reason MANY ATS'rs are here. Searching for truth and understanding. Althought a lot of stuff here on ATS is paranoid delusional hogwash... Some truth does make it to this place.

I wish you the best luck in sorting through your life. Anger is not the way. Negative Energy is destructive you have to learn the constructive nature in things. As Human beings we have to struggle to do the right thing because we unlocked in ourselves Judgement, curiousity... You sir have potential to do good but only want to to negative... why??

That attitude is probably why their was a school shooting a very sad world it is sometimes ... but the rest of the time it is great and enjoyable. Helping others that are in situations is imperative but others are scared. Scared is another negative energy... yet again deconstructive. Think about these things.

So here's something of the aftermath:

KRP tehostaa netin valvontaa kuukaudeksi Netti-tv
Julkaistu 24.09.2008 15:20

Kauhajoen kouluammuskelu ja siihen liittyneet videot ovat saaneet sisäministeriön tehostamaan internetin valvontaa. Keskusrikospoliisin tietotekniikkarikosyksikkö käy nyt kaikkea netissä olevaa materiaalia läpi ja seuraa sisältöjä erityisen aktiivisesti ainakin kuukauden ajan.

- Poliisi tarkkailee nyt periaatteessa ihan kaikkea netissä. Lähtökohtana tässä tarkkailussa on nollatoleranssi.

Source.

Free translation:


National Bureau of Investigation increases the observation of internet for one month.

School shooting at Kauhajoki and the corresponding videos resulted increasing control over internet by ministry of internal affairs. Police's hax0r unit goes through all material that exists in the internet - now that's a tough job

- and observes the contents by increased vigilance at least for a month.

Police observes basically everything in the internet. Zero tolerance is on basis.

Well thank you for that, you looser (meaning the Matti Saari - the killer)! You may thought that you fought against the oppression and control, but instead you gave a good inject of boost for the control freaks. Thank you very much! I hope you would've survived to see where your 'fight' is taking us. Damn I am almost pissed out now. But exactly, this is how they fool the idiots. Get them depressed, give them gun and wait for the shootout - then excuse all the increased control on that and people love to buy it.

Well, I didn't expect anything else.

-v

[edit on 24-9-2008 by v01i0]

www.hs.fi...
"The schoolmate describes Saari as a nice boy. He and Saari were in the same class in the upper-level comprehensive school. “In the ninth grade he started mixing with some rather heavier circles, but I would still have never believed that something like this could happen.” "
[Comment: I wonder if 'heavier circles' is code word for that satanic black/death metal scene that is so prevalent in the far north of Europe.]

"Saari did not complete his military service. He entered the Finnish Defence Forces as a conscript in July 2006, but was transferred to the so-called E category in mid-term, resulting in his national service being interrupted."
[Comment: These guys quite often have contact with the military or with military recruiters. That's where they learn how to shoot.]


www.hs.fi...
In some of the clips Saari appears to have had the help of a camera operator.
--September 23rd 2008 about 10:46 AM: The shooting in Kauhajoki begins.
--September 23rd 2008 about 11:10 AM: News of the shooting spreads rapidly on online message boards. Users learn about the shooting from people who were on the spot.
--message boards and chatrooms have been recognised as the fastest source of information - albeit sometimes garbled or exaggerated - in cases such as this.
[Comment: exaggerated how? Sounds like the early reports indicated more than one shooter, just like at Tusuula last November. Have any of our local on-scene posters heard anything about other shooters from the witnesses on the local forums?]


www.hs.fi...
c. 10:40
A man with his face disguised under a ski-mask began shooting in the classroom in the middle of the exam. He threw a petrol-filled bottle-bomb into the classroom, which caught fire immediately. The Principal heard shouts from upstairs.
c. 11:00
The first police party - two officers in a police van - arrives on the scene. They are in the yard of the college when the gunman fires towards them from the main doorway. The police take cover and radio for backup.
[Comment: Cops first arrived 20 minutes later? That is an eternity in such a situation. Is the town so small or the school so remotely located that police would have taken so long to arrive? Something don't smell right.]

so there has been I guess four different bomb threats or school evacuations after the shooting. Two schools have been evacuated today. One close to my hometown. Kids really dont know the line between a joke and a #ed up thing.

reply to post by starviego

The Finnish Police is a national police force divided into 90 districts and about 280 stations and only has about 11,000 officers to cover 131,000 square miles and over 5,000,000 people.

That translates to a pretty long response time in some of the more remote, less populated areas.

Even where I live in the US (and Long Island is a major suburban area with roughly the same population as Finland) and our average police response time is about 20 minutes.

[edit on 25-9-2008 by ChrisF231]

reply to post by ChrisF231


Fair conclusion. Also you need to remember that police just cannot run into the scene if somebody is on shootout. They have to plan and it takes time; otherwise they'll be endangering they own lives, and I think that also them should be allowed some sort of safety to work.

Sincerely,

-v

[edit on 25-9-2008 by v01i0]

Some observations:

www.timesonline.co.uk... ... 817612.ece
The college where the massacre occurred was sealed off this morning behind police tape and guarded by soldiers from the Finnish army.

www.telegraph.co.uk... ... years.html
--In Kauhajoki, a sleepy town of around 14,000 people, streets were still jammed with police vans and military vehicles a day after the shootings.

[Comment: What is the purpose for this military presence? Are they trying to intimidate the population? Did the military have any other role in this event?]

------------

www.timesonline.co.uk... ... 817612.ece
--(The school) has been closed until Monday but a steady a stream of pupils, dressed mostly in black, were arriving during the day to leave candles and messages for their lost friends.

[Comment: Were they dressed in funereal black out of respect for the victims? Or was it a 'satanic' black to show their sympathy to the acts of the perpetrator?]

----------

www.hs.fi... ... 5239731067
The male student who died in the classroom was apparently a relatively close friend of Saari. This would imply that even the presence of a good friend did little to turn Saari from his decision to start shooting. ....A photograph has also been circulating on the Internet, in which Saari and his victim are seen mugging and making faces together. ....All signs seem to point to the fact that Saari acted alone. There were no accomplices.

[Comment: The police seem to be very hasty in their conclusion the shooter acted alone. A logical man would leave open the possibility the friend was perhaps not a victim, but rather a confederate.]

Originally posted by starviego


www.hs.fi... ... 5239731067
The male student who died in the classroom was apparently a relatively close friend of Saari. This would imply that even the presence of a good friend did little to turn Saari from his decision to start shooting. ....A photograph has also been circulating on the Internet, in which Saari and his victim are seen mugging and making faces together. ....All signs seem to point to the fact that Saari acted alone. There were no accomplices.

The shooter did call one of his friends with cellphone right after the shooting. He said that he has shot 10 people and asked two things from his friend 1. Would you arrange a cremation funeral for me? and 2. will you come to my funeral?

And then he said farewell / goodbye .

I guess this friend will hear those farewells in his dreams a looong time.
So I dont think he shot his "real" friends in his killing spree.

reply to post by zerbot565


Nice long reply but it didn't even come close to answering my question. Which was why would the person who said it original think that a school shooting in Finland would have anything to do with a shooting at Virginia tech USA. What I was getting at is that they are in two different countries. On what ground did the original person have to compare the two? It would have made more sense to compare the N.I.U. shooting to the V.T. shooting 1.) they are in the same country 2.) they happened within a short time of each other. I don't see a connection mainly cause its two different cultures and societies. I mean it would be like comparing a Toyota to a Ford. Two different companies base out of two different countries, but I guess they both sell there vehicles with tires so we can compare them to each other right?

Originally posted by hILB3rT
reply to post by zerbot565

 

Nice long reply but it didn't even come close to answering my question. Which was why would the person who said it original think that a school shooting in Finland would have anything to do with a shooting at Virginia tech USA. What I was getting at is that they are in two different countries. On what ground did the original person have to compare the two? It would have made more sense to compare the N.I.U. shooting to the V.T. shooting 1.) they are in the same country 2.) they happened within a short time of each other. I don't see a connection mainly cause its two different cultures and societies. I mean it would be like comparing a Toyota to a Ford. Two different companies base out of two different countries, but I guess they both sell there vehicles with tires so we can compare them to each other right?

Well Cho and Peeka-Eric both said something like, let the revolution begin.

You might not be familiar with what these kids were saying. Cho said he was trying to wake people up.

Peeka-Eric said he wanted to start a revolusion.

I just found an article linking this kid to Peeka-Eric. The article suggest that they are linked. That they had communicated. If you want I can post what the Peeka-Eric said for his reasons for doing the shooting.

www.youtube.com...


www.tiagoluchini.eu...

Collective Deindividualization: Totalitarianism & Delusions Of Democracy

Collective deindividualization is a phenomenon where individual will be trained as part of the mindless herd controlled by state, corporation, church

or some other organization, group, ideology, religion or mass delusion system and adopt it's rules, morality and codes of conduct. This phenomenon has
been familiar in all despotic, authoritarian, totalitarian, monarchist, communist, socialist, nazi, fascist and religious societies troughout history.

Also, the modern western democratic republics have the same phenomenon. It is just done so that people will think they are free and don't realize they are
being enslaved. Majority of people in society are weak-minded and ignorant retards, masses that act like programmed robots and accept voluntarily
slavery. But not me! I am self-aware and realize what is going on in society! I have a free mind! And I choose to be free rather than live like a robot or slave.

You can say I have a “god complex”, sure... then you have a “group complex”!
Compared to you retarded masses, I am actually godlike.

Totalitarian governments rule people through education system, consumerism, mass media, monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force (police, military) and laws discriminating people who think differently than the majority.

Democracy... you think democracy means freedom and justice? You are wrong.
Democracy is a dictatorship of the moral majority... and the majority is manipulated and ruled by the state mafia. Modern western democracy has nothing to do with freedom or justice; it is totalitarian and corrupted system.

Laws are made over the heads of the people and people are being brainwashed to support the system and connected to the institutional structures immediately after their birth. Societies are being ruled by manipulative and charismatic politicians who only care about the interests of majority, and who do not base their decisions on reason but emotions and
feelings of the masses. These masses let the authorities of state to make all the important decisions for them. The masses will get an education, they study, get a job, go to work and vote in elections. They think they are free and don’t criticise or question the system. They have become robots. It is like a constructed mechanism in mind, that leaves little choice for an individual to
think, talk and act independently.

Three Kinds Of Humans

There are three kinds of human personality types in this world:
1) individualistic human (3% of the world population)
2) manipulative human (3% of the world population)
3) mass human (94% of the world population)
#1 & #2 type of personalities are intelligent, creative and self-aware. They have chosen bit different paths paths. #3 type of personalities are less intelligent and less creative, weak-minded people controlled by #2 type of personalities. The percentages are only estimations though but are based on Gaussian distribution and history of human race and how humans have organized into societies. And this is the way it has always been ever since
humans started to organize into communities.
Another way how to divide people is bit different but is based on the same facts, human nature and history. The division is based on the level of intelligence and quality of mentality:

1) intelligent (3% of the world population)
2) slightly retarded, so called “normal people” or “robots” (94% of the world population)
3) highly retarded, “vegetables” (3% of the world population)





Long live the revolution... revolution against the system, which enslaves not only the majority of weak-minded masses but also the small minority of strongminded and intelligent individuals! If we want to live in a different world, we must act. We must rise against the enslaving, corrupted and totalitarian regimes and overthrow the tyrants, gangsters and the rule of idiocracy. I can’t
alone change much but hopefully my actions will inspire all the intelligent people of the world and start some sort of revolution against the current
systems. The system discriminating naturality and justice, is my enemy. The people living in the world of delusion and supporting this system are my
enemies. I am ready to die for a cause I know is right, just and true... even if I would lose or the battle would be only remembered as evil... I will rather fight and die than live a long and unhappy life.

And remember that this is my war, my ideas and my plans. Don’t blame anyone else for my actions than myself. Don’t blame my parents or my friends.
I told nobody about my plans and I always kept them inside my mind only.

Don’t blame the movies I see, the music I hear, the games I play or the books I read. No, they had nothing to do with this. This is my war: one man war
against humanity, governments and weak-minded masses of th

[edit on 26-9-2008 by Harassment101]

reply to post by Harassment101


Thank you. That was the answer I was looking for. Something beyond the chaos theory and random events.

[edit on 26-9-2008 by hILB3rT]

It goes pretty deep. I am trying to find a transcript of what the V-tech kid said. These articles goes missing, finding that pdf was a task.

The media, the mass media does not report this stuff, it's on sites like this that you find out that there was a reason behind this stuff.

What the Peeka-Eric kid said is really illuminating. The V-tech kid said something about let the revolution begin as well.

If this is the case, then it could mean some of these kids are doing these shootings to protest this system that most people are not aware of, a system that is indeed enslaving society, and humanity. However to see that truth of that, you have to have your Neo moment, and most people never do, they remain enslaved, part of the sheeple population.

reply to post by finallianstallion

Here is the source:

www.hs.fi...
The Finnish weekly magazine 7 päivää carries an article today in which a friend of the Kauhajoki school shooting gunman Matti Juhani Saari claims that Saari called him shortly after killing ten people in a classroom. "We greeted each other quite normally, and I asked him in the normal way what he was up to", says the student, who was named in the paper as Rauno.
"He announced in a perfectly calm voice that he had shot ten people at the school and he was calling to say goodbye."
Rauno, who studies somewhere other than Kauhajoki, reports that the call came in on Tuesday morning at 11:53.
In the newspaper interview, Rauno says that he then asked his friend several times to repeat what he had just said, and that Saari had repeated the admission perfectly calmly. The paper additionally claims that Saari said he had been planning the act for two years, according to Rauno's account. He had further requested during the final call that Rauno arrange for his body to be cremated. "Finally he said something like 'Goodbye, mate'".
Rauno reports that he had known Matti Saari for several years. Already in the early stages of their friendship, Saari had apparently complained that he had been badly teased and bullied while at school, in particular in secondary school. The bullying had continued into lukio, or upper secondary education.
Rauno says that around two years ago he began to notice that his friend had changed in somewhat scary fashion.
Saari began to show off shooting video-clips he had found on the YouTube site, and had told him of his admiration for the American school shootings. Eighteen months ago Rauno had received a message overnight, in which Saari said he was "going to do something big and shoot a lot of people in a school somewhere".
"I called him back in the morning and expressed my astonishment at the message, but he just grunted and said it was mostly only kidding around." Rauno says he became concerned when Saari had told him he intended to take up shooting.


Well all I can say it is sure convenient for the official version of events for this guy to show up. No doubt about it now. Saari definitely did it. Or so says the mystery witness. He even provides a motive!

This reminds me of the Myyrmanni shopping center bomber Petri Gerdt, 19 who killed 7 people back on 10-11-02. In that case a another mystery witness, "Hessu," came forward to sweep away any doubts about the guilt of the accused:

query.nytimes.com...
He appears to have had few acquaintances there, but the newspaper Ilto Sanomat printed an interview with a young man(aka 'Hessu') in his 20s who said he met Mr. Gerdt in a bar a year or so ago and became his friend, even as Mr. Gerdt began to speak obsessively about explosives. He ''was just raving,'' said the man, who telephoned the police hot-line number with his account of their friendship and whose statements are now being investigated by the police. ''It was nothing but 'bomb, bomb, bomb.' I never believed he would carry out his plans.'' The friend, who spoke on condition that his name not be used, told the newspaper that Mr. Gerdt had been ''excited'' by the Sept. 11 attacks and that when he discussed his own scheme, he always spoke of setting a timer so that he could escape before the bomb went off. If that is true, he clearly miscalculated and did not get out in time. ''He didn't believe he would be caught,'' the friend said. ''He said he could then boast about what he did to his buddies.''

[Comment: The quite, introverted loner goes into a bar and starts 'raving' on how he wants to bomb a lot of innocent people, so that later he can 'boast' about it to his non-existent friends. Suuuure..... ]

Anyway I have serious doubts about this oh-so-convenient "Rauno" character who seems to be playing the same role for Matti Saari.






[edit on 26-9-2008 by starviego]

reply to post by hILB3rT


the jokela shooters manifest was more or less about the russian civil war in 1918 and something about humans being robots and that we have to wakeup from some sort of sleep ,

a few lines

Today the process of natural selection is totally misguided. It has reversed. Human race has been devolving very long time for now. Retarded and stupid , weak-minded people are reproducing more and faster than the intelligent, strong-minded people. Laws protect the retarded majority which selects the leaders of society. Modern human race has not only betrayed its ancestors, but the future generations too. Homo Sapiens, HAH! It is more like a Homo Idioticus to me! When I look at people I see every day in society, school and everywhere… I can’t say I belong to same race as the lousy, miserable, arrogant, selfish human race! No! I have evolved one step above!

cho manifest

a few lines

"You had everything you wanted. Your Mercedes wasn't enough, you brats. Your golden necklaces weren't enough, you snobs. Your trust fund wasn't enough. Your vodka and cognac weren't enough. All your debaucheries weren't enough. Those weren't enough to fulfill your hedonistic needs. You had everything,"


about the kauhajoki incident i could only find this snippet

Police said Saari left two notes behind saying that he “hated mankind”.

apart from that they all shared a hatred for humanity they all seam to have had some sort of partner problem, if i recall jokalas incident happend a few days after auvinen broke up with his girl friend
cho did the same thing
as for Saari and kauhajoki incident im still a bit torn if he acturly had a girlfriend , on many of the sites he posted on he mentioned sex guns and beer as hobbies yet 9 of his victims where girls but
who knows , could be very well that he to had suffred somesort of rejection from a life partner that spun his emotions even more.

then we have the issue of antidepresants,
we know that cho and auvinen where on the same medication , saari is still a blank on that issue

saari and auvinen used pretty much the same tactics trying to burn down the school and killing students and then on top of it all they both tried to end their life by putting a .22 and fire off wich is kind idiotic since it wont kill you instantly.

dont know if cho tried the same method

we know saari and auvinen knew eachother and shared same intrests, dont know if there is a connetion with auvinen and cho but their manifest speak of same apathy towards humans and the system we live in in general.


some thoughts, hope it sheads some light