NSA document to debate official story comming

reply to post by jprophet420


That is true and applies here. But I think The Story of the Boy Who Cried "Wolf!!" trumps.

Originally posted by jprophet420
Every single person that slandered Ultima1 is no better, period.

Patience is a virtue and character assassination is a piss poor excuse for finding the truth, no matter who is doing it.

The fact that he got banned also speaks volumes, IMHO. What does that say about his character? That pretty much debuks the idea that anyone is assailing his character. The mods made the final decision about that, although much too late...

Let's face it, he's never added anything of value to any thread. His arguments are tired and stale and were borderline trolling/looking for posting points.

Besides, he really isn't looking for any truth, again IMHO. What his motivations are is anyone's guess.

But OT - his report absolutely will not say what he claims it does. Think rationally about this for a second - if it's a conspiracy within the guv to perpetrate 9/11 to get into Iraq..... do you honestly think that a simple FOIA request will reveal their guilt? Alternatively, if it's NOT a conspiracy..... why wouldn't they just say that they regrettably had to shoot down a highjacked plane? There would be no negative impacts to that admission - if anything, it could later be used as a rallying point for the war, etc.

In the end, the whole thing is just a claim by some dude named de Grand-pre or something similar. His claim was reported in the media (Reuters? ). Ironic dontcha think that he always disparaged the media as a false source of info, and then uses THAT VERY SAME MEDIA as his source?

Originally posted by jprophet420
Every single person that slandered Ultima1 is no better, period.

Who was doing the slandering?

Calling someone an idiot....and that person IS an idiot...is not slander.

netlaw.samford.edu...

no, calling someone an idiot is character assassination weather it is true or not.

Citing the fallacies and inconsistancies in their posts is the right thing to do. To belittle them has nothing to do with finding the truth about 911 whatsoever, even if it is warranted.

So in this case was it warranted? I think we all know the answer. However to dwell on that instead of facts is non-productive for anyone involved.

Let's face it, he's never added anything of value to any thread. His arguments are tired and stale and were borderline trolling/looking for posting points.

Yes, and you also good sir.

Being more 'sophisticated' about it doesn't make it any less of a crime.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by jprophet420]

I just dropped in to see the “proof” that was to be posted by yesterday or today. I wasn’t surprised to see none posted, but I was kinda surprised to see that ol’ Ultima had finally been given the boot. His “proof” would have been convincing to only someone so bias they couldn’t see straight. Just ignoring facts & thinking up new pointless questions is not admirable and pointing that out certainly is not “slanderous”. One of the many ATS boyles has been lanced, no more, no less. His misunderstanding & misuse of the FOIA is pathetic.

I’d almost guarantee that he is still around under a 2nd or new user name. He was a very well placed intelligence professional… He did work for Wakenhut after all…

Originally posted by jprophet420
Yes, and you also good sir.

Being more 'sophisticated' about it doesn't make it any less of a crime.

I was perfectly civil and patient with ULTIMA. He resorted to simply repeating his claims as if they were somehow implicitly true. I'm afraid that he simply did not know how to debate and was incapable of understanding that his opinion could be wrong.

I hope I am not breeching civility rules by posting this, but it is patently clear how he did not understand his bias, and could not perceive how he cited evidence as "evidence" and "fact" when it was extremely weak, then denied evidence when it did not fit his predetermined conclusions.

As a result of this I resorted to ending discussion with him on many occasions, simply because it had obviously become pointless. In a way it is a shame he is gone, but it will hopefully increase the quality of debate in this forum.

Seems like ULTIMA's run out of steam over at the JREF forum. He's not posting at his usual pace.

Anyone keep track of how many more days it will be for this "end all proof" to be posted over there?

Originally posted by tezzajw

MorningStar8741, you joined ATS on the 16th of September, 2008. That's about 17 days ago, depending upon your time zone.

Yet, you type about Ultima1 as though you have been here for longer than 17 days... Interesting. It would have taken 17 days to rescue Ripley and the Marine's from LV-426 after the initial distress signal... A lot can happen in 17 days, but not necessarily enough for a member to be part of the furniture.

Perhaps, if you were a past member who has chosen a new name, then you could tell us who you were? I find it difficult to believe that in 17 days, you could gain so much history about the ATS 9/11 forum, where you feel that someone 'earned a banning long ago'.

One sad aspect of Ultima1's banning will be that we won't get to see the FOI document that he requested.

Oh good, now that ULITIMA1 is gone, we can start eating each other?

Perhaps if you really cared about who I am and how long I have been here, you would just go to my profile, see where I have been posting and what. It would not take long to see several posts discussing the length of time I have been reading ATS and posting anonymously. If it is of such big concern to you, perhaps you should have forgone this intellectual laziness and gotten to th bottom of it yourself. Since it is none of your concern, nor does it matter in any way shape or form to anything here, and is rather off topic, please feel free to start a thread discussing my registration date and the context with which I speak.

Did you just stumble on ATS and sign up before even seeing what kind of site it was? Sorry, I spent a long time just reading and posting rarely before I decided to register. I hope you can sleep now. I also hope you feel a little bit ashamed of yourself for taking this opportunity of momentary peace to attack me. Thank god we did not all talk nicely and respectfully to each other for too long. That would taint ULTIMA1's memory. Thanks for asking, want to know my favorite color, movie, band, my pet peeves and all that crap too, or can you get your nose out of my behind and worry about this thread and what you have to contribute instead?

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by ThroatYogurt

 

Jezz, you guys a one bleeding mob of nasty people.

You come across as a lynch mob, to say it bluntly! No intelligence there to speak of.

All Ultimo ever did, was to respond to derision, ridicule and stultification by immature
humans. None of you mentions anything about these amazingly bad posts - why not??
Not worthy of any mention, perhaps!
He responded HIS way, as an individual.
None of you can ever claim the same. You all appear the same. Namely as a mob. Without any redeeming features, like behaving as intelligent adults. None of that.

Morning star got completely cheesed off, got completely in to reverse gearing, completely lost the plot, just because Ultimo mistook him for a pseudo-sceptic!

Totally understandable, taking into account the never-ending attacks the man had to
endure from the pack of wolf's with their snapping poisonous bites.

Morning star should have displayed a lot more tolerance, but decided to join the pack,
even though he and Ultimo apparently was on the same side, as it turned out!
The madness seems to have no end.

I wish Ultimo will be able to produce his document, but for no other reason than it would make you all stop your animalistic howling.
But if it turns out he picked a blank, at least he managed to expose the true nature
of the pack, and THAT was not such a bad thing after all - imho!

withstand.

IMHO you did not read back far enough. Perhaps all you read was this thread here. I suggest you go read all of ULTIMA1's posts before defending him so much. The very fact that you can cry about how we attacked him so unfairly shows that you clearly have no idea the history of this person. I, myself, am just one of MANY people that agreed with him that he attacked. Go read and see how many truthers and debunkers alike have been insulted and attacked needlessly by him. Take note of how many of them were banned for, what ATS let us see, defending themselves.

Originally posted by jprophet420
Every single person that slandered Ultima1 is no better, period.

Patience is a virtue and character assassination is a piss poor excuse for finding the truth, no matter who is doing it.

SLANDER-Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community.

You have no idea what has been said here about ULTIMA1 orally so you have witnessed no slander.

Nothing said about him has been untrue. There have been people defending themselves, pointing out HIS LIES, and basically hitting him back as he struck first, then showing him the way to the door.

If you are going to come here to stick up for him, at least accuse us of something we could have actually done. Hmmmm....seems since it is impossible for you to know if anyone on an internet board was slandering anyone, yet you throw that accuasation out there, I guess then you are guilty of libel. Tsk Tsk. Libel is every bit as bad as slander so......welcome to Hell, getting crowded isn't it?

Originally posted by Jake the Dog Man
I just dropped in to see the “proof” that was to be posted by yesterday or today. I wasn’t surprised to see none posted, but I was kinda surprised to see that ol’ Ultima had finally been given the boot. His “proof” would have been convincing to only someone so bias they couldn’t see straight. Just ignoring facts & thinking up new pointless questions is not admirable and pointing that out certainly is not “slanderous”. One of the many ATS boyles has been lanced, no more, no less. His misunderstanding & misuse of the FOIA is pathetic.

I’d almost guarantee that he is still around under a 2nd or new user name. He was a very well placed intelligence professional… He did work for Wakenhut after all…

It is funny how he never had friends or allies before but suddenly he has a few and they keep getting starred. I have a feeling he is still with us, even if by proxy now.

Still nothing from his JREF thread, but I think ULTIMA's blown a fuse. I kid you not, these are his exact words in another thread there:

The fire commander was not a memeber of the FDNY at that time, he was in charge of all the units there. That means police, rescue, contractors, demo.

This is obviously in reference to WTC 7. Check it out for yourselves:

forums.randi.org...

Well he actually seems right at home there to me. No offense since I know many of you are members there too but, and I am NOOOOOOOOOOO ULTIMA1 appologist but...most posts are his words and one line jokes or his words and a picture or his words and some l337 speak. I see there are a couple actually speaking to him but for the most part, that board seems to me made up of people that present themselves as mature intelligent reality based individuals. Then they argue with leet speak and pictures? At least that thread anyway sure looks like nothing more than a bunch of kids that do not know what to do with themselvese when stargate is not on.

Update on Ultima and his tall tales......


Check out his newest claims at JREF since he started talking about WTC collapses:

I am the Fire Safety officer and OSHA rep, for my office.

forums.randi.org...

I spoke too soon... a few posts later:

I am a analyst in the intelligence field.

forums.randi.org...

Did this much-anticipated 'proof' ever arrive?

There's plenty of us out there still waiting to give it the once-over if it ever does but hope is fading.

reply to post by Pilgrum


Someone at the JREF forum called and got some info just today. They said it is going to be another 30 days before anything is released. Poor Roger will have his heart broken when it finally arrives.

I doubt his FOIA will ever be answered. If it is, it will be the standard "We have found no information relevant to your request"

But, let's stop bashing for 30 days or so, if he posts something real, great.if not, ignore him.

and btw, I have had many, many FOIA requests come back with the above or similar answers. FOIA requests that hit a nerve can result in unintended consequences.