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'But You're A Christian!'

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posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 04:41 PM
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This is mainly addressed to Christians but everyone's thoughts on the subject are more than welcome.


If you're a Christian, then chances are you have had your faith thrown into your face when you disagree with someone, speak with authority in defense of your faith, or act with confidence due to 'the hope that is within you.' Edited to add: Or not really even that- just casually participating in a thread where you are not discussing religion at all but might possibly still be met with this as an off topic personal insult.

Now, I'm not talking about actually being a jerk or engaging in sin because the Bible explicitly states we should be rebuked and humbly accept that rebuke. Instead, I'm talking about the manipulative baiting tactics where you have committed no actual offense or misbehavior only to hear something along the lines of, 'Ha! Some Christian you are!'

This is more of a question and answer thread and not so much a debate thread. How do you personally take such things?

If I am truly acting like a jerk or behaving in a way that is not aligned with scriptures, I immediately feel convicted when called on it by a fellow Christian or a non-Christian. Not that we won't be perfect, of course, but we should all be opened to constructive criticism when we are in the wrong. However, I will be honest and admit to getting pretty irritated when the, 'Some Christian you are!' card is used especially when it is pretty obvious it is only a manipulation tactic and the accusation is not justified.

It seems this is a pretty big problem on forums specifically. Just through observation it looks like about 90% of the time something like that is said, I find myself sitting here silently thinking, 'What in the world? That Christian did absolutely nothing wrong.' Then in about 10% of the cases I can understand where the person who throws it around is coming from. Fair enough. Nobody is perfect after all.

For Christians, how does it make you feel to hear such a thing. Does it convict you or do you consider it a manipulative bait tactic? I'm hoping no hardcore debate breaks out over this. It would just be nice to hear from other people.

I guess you could say this is one of my forum pet peeves.


[edit on 9/19/2008 by AshleyD]




posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 05:13 PM
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Oh yeah. I hear it often. I guess it doesn't help being a non-traditional, independent-minded, female Christian.

When I encounter that "I'm not even a Christian and I'm better than you are" attitude (or actual words), my response is usually: Well, He didn't come to call the righteous but the sinners to repentance but thanks for your concern. (The sin of drinking coffee or being 10 pounds overweight or wearing a skirt that's 2 inches above my knee...you know, the really heinous sins)

The one that makes me laugh is, "You're a Christian and you don't believe in hell?!?!" I know it's unthinkable that my beliefs are not out of the same cookie cutter mold that so many others are but, if they're willing to listen, I'm willing to share the reasons for my beliefs. Usually they're not willing to listen and I get some response like, "My mind is made up-don't confuse me with scriptures."

Being a female Christian presents a whole different set of problems and attitudes. I once had the (male) elders at my church come out to my house, sit on my couch while I served them coffee to tell me what a bad wife I was based on some trumped up charge by my husband. After about 30 minutes of me quoting scripture right back at them they finally turned to my husband, who was patiently waiting for someone else to get me under control for him, and said, "Brother, you need to get a job!" And then they left.

I have a "resident boss" and really don't pay much attention to what other people tell me about how I'm supposed to behave. Not that I'm not open to constructive criticism but having someone other than your God tell you how to be a Christian is a bit like telling your neighbor what kind of a spouse they need to be to their own soul mate. Falls under the category of nunya.

[edit on 19-9-2008 by whitewave]



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


I always kind of sardonically laugh when this happens, Ashley. It's so TYPICALLY human to find the tiniest weakness in somebody else, and then try to twist it around and use it as a weapon against them.

I, personally, always remember that God uses the imperfect vessels to do his mightiest works; so that the glory is HIS. Look at Noah...Moses....Sampson...King David....Saul...........time and time again God has chosen IMPERFECT and surprising souls to do his work. Also; at some point they all were scoffed at and ridiculed. Even Jesus Christ the Savior himself (!) was 'judged' by the masses.

If you're NOT facing opposition, you're probably not on the RIGHT track. So keep your chin up. Mankind can - and will - judge us; but the Scriptures teach us that it doesn't matter. Only God has the final say in our judgement. As long as we continue to TRY and do our best to honor him and Jesus, pray for forgiveness when we make mistakes, and just ENDURE TO THE END....! That's all we are expected to do.

I just do my best; and when others 'throw down' on me, pray for them, choose to forgive them, and carry on. Not one of us is perfect; and we're all going to make mistakes (esp. on uber big forums like this one! ). I think people know the truth when they hear it; and the Bible is the truth. The End.

~*~ Body Piercings Saved My Soul ~*~
-Doc Salsa



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by whitewave
 


That is an interesting perspective and something I was thinking of while making this thread. Thank you for bringing that up. I didn't mention it because I was already so afraid someone would think, 'Oh no. Not another Christians-are-so-persecuted thread' but to make it even worse, 'Hysterical! She's playing the gender card, too!' lol

But it is hard. Especially being from the south where it's a little different for women still and the whole 'Helpless Dainty Southern Belle' expectations from southern society. Then being a Christian (albeit an extremely shy one in real life), it sometimes feels like I have to be this perfect wispy little unopinionated thing in all circumstances. And if you're sarcastic, bold, opinionated, sharp tongued, or have a backbone it's like 'What kind of Christian are you!' as well as, 'Some lady you are.' lol

It feels like something else even more than that, though. Can't really explain it and surely I am not making much sense at the moment. Hm. It's like you're already trying so hard and we're all on a journey and learning experience. So it is humbling when you deserve the chastisement and you know you do. Again, it convicts you. But when you know it is not even deserved but just a manipulative jab, it is frustrating. Then I feel like I shouldn't even be frustrated but some perfect little zen master then I end up feeling even worse for blowing my lid at that.








posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 06:07 PM
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Yes, there was a time long, long ago (on a planet far, far away-jk) when I tried to be an "expected Christian". You know, "I expect you to act this way. I expect you to behave like this, or do that, or think or say this or that." It's just another form of control. If it's not the government, it's religion. If it's not religion, it's traditionalists. If it's not traditionalists, it's channeled ascended masters or aliens or long dead prophets from vanished civilizations. Always somebody telling you what to do and how to do it. Sigh.

Having a relationship with Christ is just that: a personal relationship between you and your savior. I really don't see how it's anybody else's business or concern. If that makes me a "bad Christian", oh well. I still only have to answer to my personal savior for it, not anyone else.

I get plenty of little pointers and helpful tips on personal behavior/attitude on a daily basis from my resident boss. If someone else comes along who can create a world as wonderful as ours and loves me so much that they are also willing to die to save me from my wretched situation, I might listen to what they have to say. Until then, being a Christian is between me and Christ.

Most of the critical crowd are pretty well-meaning for the most part but the passive-aggressive, manipulative control freaks get no patience from me. I am instantly and firmly dismissive; whether they are professed Christians or not. Wise as serpents, harmless as doves. (But even doves can poop on your head. I'm going to hell, I know.)



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 06:11 PM
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'___'eed How dare you make Ashley feel like this!





posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by _Phoenix_
 


LOL! I will be honest, he was the straw that broke the camel's back but this issue has been a long time coming so I don't want to lay the blame on one member in particular.

I think it is SO RUDE when someone starts a thread off of what someone else said in another thread and quotes what they said or did. Almost like, 'Hey everyone. Look at what this moron said. Let's discuss!' At least that is always the impression I always got from seeing threads like that and I absolutely do not approve of that at all. So I did do my best to tread carefully and not single anyone out. It's not just him but something that frequently happens.

Truthfully, my mouth absolutely does get the better of me from time to time and I need someone to call me on it when it happens. I will listen, apologize, and grovel for forgiveness. It's humbling and we all need humility. But on the other hand, I hate seeing people being manipulated through this tactic when it absolutely is not justified. No hard feelings to '___' whatsoever at all and this is not singling him out or started only because of him. This actually happens all the time on here and wanted to discuss it. lol

[edit on 9/19/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


Ah yes of course I knew that. It always happens, you have something on your mind you always wanted to get out, something reminds you and you go ahead and let it out.

Don't worry '___', it's not all about you.

And yes I've seen this christian comment happen a lot. Sometimes in debates or arguments, "hey your christian you can't do that, you can't swear, you can't etc etc" It's a easier way to win the debate or argument by changing the subject.

[edit on 19-9-2008 by _Phoenix_]



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 06:37 PM
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Seems to me that it is a manipulative ploy to get Christians to abandon their discernment and cognitive thinking in exchange for a more relativist approach to life and spirituality.

Think about it. Everytime we speak out against something that we know is wrong or false, we get the usual "Oh how judgemental of you" or my all time favorite "Stop shoving your beliefs down my throat".

It is basically politically correct society's way of trying to get Christians to sit down and shut up and just agree with their relativist agenda.


Of course if they actually say it that way, they would expose their own agenda driven judgementalism and expose themselves as hypocrites in the process. In order to avoid this, everytime we use discernment to point out something thats wrong or false, they resort to saying things like, "Jesus said you're not supposed to judge me so you're not living by Christian standards when you get all judgemental like that". In doing so they think they're making us look "ignorant" or "closed minded" or whatever, while making themselves look "progressive" and "open minded" and "all inclusive". Its all just part of the new politically correct, relativist agenda.

It will all come crashing down in due time.



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 06:53 PM
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Maybe I am really good at being passive-aggressive and I try not to get involved with people who are not Christian.
I get something that is probably related to it. I get a reaction from Christians who can not imagine I am one of them. Maybe I am not one of them, because they have a limited definition of what a Christian is.



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 07:32 PM
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It's all bull. I see all over the internet people cursing, swearing, saying (I'm the S***) yet those people are loved. people are even nice to each other meanly.

Like they will be like, what's up (b****) and it's fine for nonchristians to do this, yet once we do this it's a problem because they need to find the slightest fault with us to further push the reason for them to not look into converting IMO.

And the ones who say, Iv'e never heard this from an athiest btw, alot of them seem to have some humility.

" I'm better then you and not even christian "

which means you are worse because immediately putting yourself over someone is a sign of pride. God wants us to reach a point where we are the worst person in the world in our own eyes, true humility.


the ones who realize their faults, and recoginze humility are better in Gods eyes. Everybody makes mistakes.

I personally SUCK. I mean it. Every athiest in here I believe to be a more productive human being then me, I got a long ways to go to be real good.

But the thing is that God keep trying with me, and he never gives up and loves unconditionally like a puppy dog.

And he teaches us to do this as well. Saying curse words come from anger and it shows that our souls are tainted and we lack alot of graces that we should have to handle stressful situations.

as for me I haven't been to communion in about 12 months and that explains it for me, I have lost alot of graces over the last year.


anyways Ashley D. God is the final judge and he will decide whos who.



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 07:35 PM
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Pheonix are you ultra phoenix from 2002?

and why have you changed your avatar to the karate kid.?



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruth

Pheonix are you ultra phoenix from 2002?

and why have you changed your avatar to the karate kid.?

No I am not? lol.

It's not the Karate kid haha.

Nice to meet you.



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 07:40 PM
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Agreed this a common diversionary tactic used by non Christians. Especially when they are getting owned in a debate or their sin is being threatened. The "Judge not, Judge not!" fallacy is a way to change the focus of the conversation to what the Bible says about judging etc and removes the heat from the user of the said fallacy.

It is a fallacy...

"Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction." 2 Tim 4:2

The "great patience" portion is very much a challenge when faced with the God haters we have in this day and age.

For instance it's more than a little incredulous to me that this site is jumping through all sorts of hoops - making rules about political baiting and political comments yet tacitly approves of hate threads like "Creationists will destroy ATS" by eliminating free exchange and debate by mandate.

Recently I have for the large part taken Paul's advice in this portion of the same book,

"But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them" 2 Timothy 3

The general demeanor I find on the internet is evidence that this prophecy has come to pass.



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by whitewave
Most of the critical crowd are pretty well-meaning for the most part but the passive-aggressive, manipulative control freaks get no patience from me.
I am instantly and firmly dismissive;


I can agree with that. Some people are truly sincere when they call your actions into question or even for your benefit as in a fellow Christian who will rebuke us in love. But then are those you mention who do it on purpose for no other reason that to bait you into an argument or as some sort of holier-than-thou judgmental ploy. In all honesty, I take such criticism a lot more seriously when it comes from another Christian because I believe they are doing it out of love most of the time- especially if they are a friend. Sincere non-Christians typically seem to do it out of confusion at the contradiction of my behavior versus what the scriptures say so that will make me at least stop and think and take a look at myself. But the ones who have a reputation for hating Christians are better left ignored, I guess.


Wise as serpents, harmless as doves. (But even doves can poop on your head.




 


Lightmare (for some reason my reply to feature is not working).

I can agree with that, too. In those types of circumstances that definitely rings true, IMO. Absolutely. It's human nature for people (myself included) to attempt to justify our sins or get defensive when people convict us and in our hearts we know they are right. You bring up a deeper conspiratorial angle that I have to say appears true as well.

 


Whammy. Yes, those incidences are indeed frustrating especially when they don't understand the full context. And it's not just that, though. It's like we have passion in what we believe for a reason. Passion and confidence in what we believe is totally acceptable. We are even told that Jesus sends us out as sheep among wolves and to be bold in our faith. So to them it might be all about ego and we are being 'bad Christians' but this simply isn't true. We are allowed to have powerful forces of personality as well. To be meek yet bold. To turn the other cheek but to stand our ground. To be loving but firm. I don't know. I guess an earlier incident got to me more than it should but it was like a chain of events that kept happening and it finally irritated me enough to make a thread about it. It is not even always a case of a Christian being 'bad.' Just opinionated and not bending over to take it up the behind while saying, 'Thank you, Sir! May I have another!?'



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 03:19 AM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


hello there

I often find its the mythological Christianity that non Christians understand.

I often get the do not judge and turn the other cheek from people who have no understanding of its truth.

At work i get a lot of chiding and if i am in a discussion and i am holding my ground; i usually end up getting some disparaging remark or comment.

This doesn't bother me too much most of the time. I do however, on occasion, get the "you are supposed to be a Christian" both from myself and others when i have done something that reflects badly on myself, Christians and more importantly God.

This leads to a crushing guilt to which i have to go to the Lord for forgiveness and the faith and understanding to do the right thing in future.

david



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 03:29 AM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


if could add to the part you mentioned regarding Christ sending us like sheep amongst the wolves,

I belive Bigwhammy mentioned threads and moderators, but i believe it is good for those posters to post anti Christian threads, the reason is that every opportunity to speak the truth of God.

our job is to spread the gospel and plant that seed. a man who plants an acorn doesn't get to see the oak tree and its not important for us to be able to do that, sure be around those that come to Christ to nurture them but in this forum we are unable to do that to any great degree.

Who knows how many people have read a post of yours AshleyD or any Christians that have that seed inside and hear God calling them and repent?
It may be a couple of years down the line but that is not ours to tell. Like the mustard seeds that fell, on occasion it can take a while before they take root even.

david



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by drevill
 


Thank you so much for sharing. There are definitely times where we fully deserve the correction and should deny our ego and accept it. Denial of the ego and pride is something I have currently been asking God to help me with over the last couple of weeks. My self image is somewhat paradoxical because I suffer from horribly low self esteem however I have an enormous ego and stubborn pride. lol So I've been fervently praying over these last few weeks that God will help me break down that wall and teach me humility. It's very enlightening and so far has been an awesome experience.

I'm kind of referring to something just a bit different, though. It's actually worse on another forum I visit at the moment. There was a member there I have always gotten along with pretty well and we've had some good laughs... until the second he found out I was a Christian. lol Now he trolls me around in threads, the shoutbox, and on my personal profile and PM's. For the most part I ignore it because what else can you really do? They do it purposely to get a rise out of you. However, I finally put my foot down and told him it isn't a sign of mental health to claim to hate someone so much yet make it your mission to be everywhere they are. Sure enough, I got the 'You're judging me but you're a Christian!' accusation thrown into my face.

So I guess this is thread is somewhat a vent, psychological exploration, and question session all in one. lol It was a long chain of events that led to this thread- not any specific incident. And not only of myself- I see this happen to Christians all the time when they have done absolutely nothing wrong or simply didn't bend over and take it... and take it... and take it. lol

Thank you again for contributing. I enjoyed reading your two posts. They both held a lot of wisdom.



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 





Now, I'm not talking about actually being a jerk or engaging in sin because the Bible explicitly states we should be rebuked and humbly accept that rebuke. Instead, I'm talking about the manipulative baiting tactics where you have committed no actual offense or misbehavior only to hear something along the lines of, 'Ha! Some Christian you are!'



Such a line is the last refuge of the logically challenged.They've run out of intelligent debate and find solace in making a statement they believe will put you in your place once and for all.



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 04:55 PM
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I can agree and even sympathize with a lot of the comments posted so far. I have been questioned about how I view my own, personal, relationship with God. All I can do is listen politely and say thank you for caring.

I could expand the premise to include those religious beliefs other than Christianity. One of the most repulsive things that I have seen in the last few years is the summation that all Muslims are terrorists. Not understanding someone else's faith leads to judgments from the uninitiated. No matter the parties involved.

I truly try to respect the beliefs of anyone, not just limit myself to one firm idea that only my belief is the only answer.

I have to share a very comforting experience that confirmed for me how we can all get along, regardless.

A very nice Baptist minister has come to my door several times since I moved to let me know about some special event taking place at his church and inviting me to come. No other requirements have been asked of me, just an open invitation to come join him in the celebration. We are always polite to each other and I look forward to his occasional visit as he goes door to door. We were able to establish an understanding at our first meeting when he asked if I had been born again. I replied that I was pretty happy and thankful for the first time. We both laughed and shook hands.

I have great respect for him and his honest and sincere mission; and his accepting me for who I am without judgment.

The foundation of the major religions can be summed up in one word, compassion. Compassion for others and for yourself. Hold the door for someone and if they don't say "thank you", go ahead and hold the door for the next person.

My motto for life goes: humility, honesty, humor, hope, health and happiness.

Good luck and have a happy...

edit: I forgot to add that if it turns out that only one belief, of all that are out there is right, then hell is going to be a pretty crowded place.



[edit on 20-9-2008 by zlots331]



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