This is mainly addressed to Christians but everyone's thoughts on the subject are more than welcome.

If you're a Christian, then chances are you have had your faith thrown into your face when you disagree with someone, speak with authority in defense of your faith, or act with confidence due to 'the hope that is within you.' Edited to add: Or not really even that- just casually participating in a thread where you are not discussing religion at all but might possibly still be met with this as an off topic personal insult.

Now, I'm not talking about actually being a jerk or engaging in sin because the Bible explicitly states we should be rebuked and humbly accept that rebuke. Instead, I'm talking about the manipulative baiting tactics where you have committed no actual offense or misbehavior only to hear something along the lines of, 'Ha! Some Christian you are!'

This is more of a question and answer thread and not so much a debate thread. How do you personally take such things?

If I am truly acting like a jerk or behaving in a way that is not aligned with scriptures, I immediately feel convicted when called on it by a fellow Christian or a non-Christian. Not that we won't be perfect, of course, but we should all be opened to constructive criticism when we are in the wrong. However, I will be honest and admit to getting pretty irritated when the, 'Some Christian you are!' card is used especially when it is pretty obvious it is only a manipulation tactic and the accusation is not justified.

It seems this is a pretty big problem on forums specifically. Just through observation it looks like about 90% of the time something like that is said, I find myself sitting here silently thinking, 'What in the world? That Christian did absolutely nothing wrong.' Then in about 10% of the cases I can understand where the person who throws it around is coming from. Fair enough. Nobody is perfect after all.

For Christians, how does it make you feel to hear such a thing. Does it convict you or do you consider it a manipulative bait tactic? I'm hoping no hardcore debate breaks out over this. It would just be nice to hear from other people.

I guess you could say this is one of my forum pet peeves.

[edit on 9/19/2008 by AshleyD]

Oh yeah. I hear it often. I guess it doesn't help being a non-traditional, independent-minded, female Christian.

When I encounter that "I'm not even a Christian and I'm better than you are" attitude (or actual words), my response is usually: Well, He didn't come to call the righteous but the sinners to repentance but thanks for your concern. (The sin of drinking coffee or being 10 pounds overweight or wearing a skirt that's 2 inches above my knee...you know, the really heinous sins)

The one that makes me laugh is, "You're a Christian and you don't believe in hell?!?!" I know it's unthinkable that my beliefs are not out of the same cookie cutter mold that so many others are but, if they're willing to listen, I'm willing to share the reasons for my beliefs. Usually they're not willing to listen and I get some response like, "My mind is made up-don't confuse me with scriptures."

Being a female Christian presents a whole different set of problems and attitudes. I once had the (male) elders at my church come out to my house, sit on my couch while I served them coffee to tell me what a bad wife I was based on some trumped up charge by my husband. After about 30 minutes of me quoting scripture right back at them they finally turned to my husband, who was patiently waiting for someone else to get me under control for him, and said, "Brother, you need to get a job!" And then they left.

I have a "resident boss" and really don't pay much attention to what other people tell me about how I'm supposed to behave. Not that I'm not open to constructive criticism but having someone other than your God tell you how to be a Christian is a bit like telling your neighbor what kind of a spouse they need to be to their own soul mate. Falls under the category of nunya.

[edit on 19-9-2008 by whitewave]

Yes, there was a time long, long ago (on a planet far, far away-jk) when I tried to be an "expected Christian". You know, "I expect you to act this way. I expect you to behave like this, or do that, or think or say this or that." It's just another form of control. If it's not the government, it's religion. If it's not religion, it's traditionalists. If it's not traditionalists, it's channeled ascended masters or aliens or long dead prophets from vanished civilizations. Always somebody telling you what to do and how to do it. Sigh.

Having a relationship with Christ is just that: a personal relationship between you and your savior. I really don't see how it's anybody else's business or concern. If that makes me a "bad Christian", oh well. I still only have to answer to my personal savior for it, not anyone else.

I get plenty of little pointers and helpful tips on personal behavior/attitude on a daily basis from my resident boss. If someone else comes along who can create a world as wonderful as ours and loves me so much that they are also willing to die to save me from my wretched situation, I might listen to what they have to say. Until then, being a Christian is between me and Christ.

Most of the critical crowd are pretty well-meaning for the most part but the passive-aggressive, manipulative control freaks get no patience from me. I am instantly and firmly dismissive; whether they are professed Christians or not. Wise as serpents, harmless as doves. (But even doves can poop on your head. I'm going to hell, I know.)

DMTeed How dare you make Ashley feel like this!

Seems to me that it is a manipulative ploy to get Christians to abandon their discernment and cognitive thinking in exchange for a more relativist approach to life and spirituality.

Think about it. Everytime we speak out against something that we know is wrong or false, we get the usual "Oh how judgemental of you" or my all time favorite "Stop shoving your beliefs down my throat".

It is basically politically correct society's way of trying to get Christians to sit down and shut up and just agree with their relativist agenda.


Of course if they actually say it that way, they would expose their own agenda driven judgementalism and expose themselves as hypocrites in the process. In order to avoid this, everytime we use discernment to point out something thats wrong or false, they resort to saying things like, "Jesus said you're not supposed to judge me so you're not living by Christian standards when you get all judgemental like that". In doing so they think they're making us look "ignorant" or "closed minded" or whatever, while making themselves look "progressive" and "open minded" and "all inclusive". Its all just part of the new politically correct, relativist agenda.

It will all come crashing down in due time.

Maybe I am really good at being passive-aggressive and I try not to get involved with people who are not Christian.
I get something that is probably related to it. I get a reaction from Christians who can not imagine I am one of them. Maybe I am not one of them, because they have a limited definition of what a Christian is.

It's all bull. I see all over the internet people cursing, swearing, saying (I'm the S***) yet those people are loved. people are even nice to each other meanly.

Like they will be like, what's up (b****) and it's fine for nonchristians to do this, yet once we do this it's a problem because they need to find the slightest fault with us to further push the reason for them to not look into converting IMO.

And the ones who say, Iv'e never heard this from an athiest btw, alot of them seem to have some humility.

" I'm better then you and not even christian "

which means you are worse because immediately putting yourself over someone is a sign of pride. God wants us to reach a point where we are the worst person in the world in our own eyes, true humility.


the ones who realize their faults, and recoginze humility are better in Gods eyes. Everybody makes mistakes.

I personally SUCK. I mean it. Every athiest in here I believe to be a more productive human being then me, I got a long ways to go to be real good.

But the thing is that God keep trying with me, and he never gives up and loves unconditionally like a puppy dog.

And he teaches us to do this as well. Saying curse words come from anger and it shows that our souls are tainted and we lack alot of graces that we should have to handle stressful situations.

as for me I haven't been to communion in about 12 months and that explains it for me, I have lost alot of graces over the last year.


anyways Ashley D. God is the final judge and he will decide whos who.

Pheonix are you ultra phoenix from 2002?

and why have you changed your avatar to the karate kid.?

Originally posted by JesusisTruth

Pheonix are you ultra phoenix from 2002?

and why have you changed your avatar to the karate kid.?

No I am not? lol.

It's not the Karate kid haha.

Nice to meet you.

Agreed this a common diversionary tactic used by non Christians. Especially when they are getting owned in a debate or their sin is being threatened. The "Judge not, Judge not!" fallacy is a way to change the focus of the conversation to what the Bible says about judging etc and removes the heat from the user of the said fallacy.

It is a fallacy...

"Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction." 2 Tim 4:2

The "great patience" portion is very much a challenge when faced with the God haters we have in this day and age.

For instance it's more than a little incredulous to me that this site is jumping through all sorts of hoops - making rules about political baiting and political comments yet tacitly approves of hate threads like "Creationists will destroy ATS" by eliminating free exchange and debate by mandate.

Recently I have for the large part taken Paul's advice in this portion of the same book,

"But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them" 2 Timothy 3

The general demeanor I find on the internet is evidence that this prophecy has come to pass.

Originally posted by whitewave
Most of the critical crowd are pretty well-meaning for the most part but the passive-aggressive, manipulative control freaks get no patience from me.
I am instantly and firmly dismissive;

I can agree with that. Some people are truly sincere when they call your actions into question or even for your benefit as in a fellow Christian who will rebuke us in love. But then are those you mention who do it on purpose for no other reason that to bait you into an argument or as some sort of holier-than-thou judgmental ploy. In all honesty, I take such criticism a lot more seriously when it comes from another Christian because I believe they are doing it out of love most of the time- especially if they are a friend. Sincere non-Christians typically seem to do it out of confusion at the contradiction of my behavior versus what the scriptures say so that will make me at least stop and think and take a look at myself. But the ones who have a reputation for hating Christians are better left ignored, I guess.

Wise as serpents, harmless as doves. (But even doves can poop on your head.

---

Lightmare (for some reason my reply to feature is not working).

I can agree with that, too. In those types of circumstances that definitely rings true, IMO. Absolutely. It's human nature for people (myself included) to attempt to justify our sins or get defensive when people convict us and in our hearts we know they are right. You bring up a deeper conspiratorial angle that I have to say appears true as well.

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Whammy. Yes, those incidences are indeed frustrating especially when they don't understand the full context. And it's not just that, though. It's like we have passion in what we believe for a reason. Passion and confidence in what we believe is totally acceptable. We are even told that Jesus sends us out as sheep among wolves and to be bold in our faith. So to them it might be all about ego and we are being 'bad Christians' but this simply isn't true. We are allowed to have powerful forces of personality as well. To be meek yet bold. To turn the other cheek but to stand our ground. To be loving but firm. I don't know. I guess an earlier incident got to me more than it should but it was like a chain of events that kept happening and it finally irritated me enough to make a thread about it. It is not even always a case of a Christian being 'bad.' Just opinionated and not bending over to take it up the behind while saying, 'Thank you, Sir! May I have another!?'

I can agree and even sympathize with a lot of the comments posted so far. I have been questioned about how I view my own, personal, relationship with God. All I can do is listen politely and say thank you for caring.

I could expand the premise to include those religious beliefs other than Christianity. One of the most repulsive things that I have seen in the last few years is the summation that all Muslims are terrorists. Not understanding someone else's faith leads to judgments from the uninitiated. No matter the parties involved.

I truly try to respect the beliefs of anyone, not just limit myself to one firm idea that only my belief is the only answer.

I have to share a very comforting experience that confirmed for me how we can all get along, regardless.

A very nice Baptist minister has come to my door several times since I moved to let me know about some special event taking place at his church and inviting me to come. No other requirements have been asked of me, just an open invitation to come join him in the celebration. We are always polite to each other and I look forward to his occasional visit as he goes door to door. We were able to establish an understanding at our first meeting when he asked if I had been born again. I replied that I was pretty happy and thankful for the first time. We both laughed and shook hands.

I have great respect for him and his honest and sincere mission; and his accepting me for who I am without judgment.

The foundation of the major religions can be summed up in one word, compassion. Compassion for others and for yourself. Hold the door for someone and if they don't say "thank you", go ahead and hold the door for the next person.

My motto for life goes: humility, honesty, humor, hope, health and happiness.

Good luck and have a happy...

edit: I forgot to add that if it turns out that only one belief, of all that are out there is right, then hell is going to be a pretty crowded place.



[edit on 20-9-2008 by zlots331]