I don't want to talk about it . . .

reply to post by schrodingers dog


After digesting your post I have come to the conclusion that I will never forget the smell.

Your words evoked the recurrence as if I was revisiting the site.

Something makes me reticent to engage in any exposition regarding my emotions on this subject.

The only thing I would like to acknowledge is that there are people out there who think its a waste of time to continue to 'look into' this whole matter. I would like to say to them; I will give it up when I can no longer taste the concrete dusts..., but I know they would just stare at me blankly and not understand...

Originally posted by schrodingers dog

Originally posted by MemoryShock
What you described is reminiscent of dissociation.

Pretty much. For most of the year but for the days every year running up to the anniversary. Pretty effective tool to suppress unpleasantness.
Devastating psychological lasting effects you say.
I'll deal with those later.

The thing that struck me is this is the same sort of thing the people of New Orleans (particularly those who didn't/couldn't evacuate for Katrina) must feel now every time that a hurricane heads towards them.

There are lots of things like that which I don't talk about, either. For some, talking is helpful but for others-- we want to be left alone and to not have to deal with reliving the experience. Everyone grieves differently and everyone recovers differently.

Not talking about it is appropriate for you.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Your words about people who question or debunk the 9/11 official story are very much comforting. I only wish some of the debunkers knew that some of the people that were involved feel the same way you do.
I think for most people who question 9/11 do it out of some sort of reaction that comes to them. Where there is almost a total disbelief of what happened that day..its shocking to anyone, even young people who may have been to young to even understand what happened. Then they get to the age where they find out for them selves what the whole entire event involved and it sets off a very strange reaction. For most there is a need to try and understand or make sense of the events...some may question the events, some may join the military in order to seek revenge, and there are many other ways that people deal with the pain that follows.
I know I will never forget that day, the constant barrage of sirens, all of the phones being dead for hours, and then seeing the pentagon made it all the more surreal.
Thanks for the insight OP.

Alas, I star and flag not because I agree with what you are saying but because I must, unfortunately (because I know you are going through something that is extremely difficult) disagree.

It is for this reason, that you would rather just forget about it, that the ones responsible would get away with this act of terror against the 'PEOPLE' of this country and the world.

As long as there are so many unanswered questions to this tragic act we MUST continue to hold the so-called authorities accountable. They haven't even brought evidence forward placing the blame on Bin Laden. It's been 7 years! Yet, 2 wars later and hundreds of more deaths due to the 'editing' of the EPA document about the air quality at ground zero by this administration, we have zero answers and one hell of a debt.

So, as easy as it is for you to want to forget (and the psychology behind it is very valid so I do truly understand why you want to), it would be terrible to turn our backs on those that lost their lives then and since because of that day.

I was in my truck across the river, stuck in the traffic that saved so many people that day. I witnessed the second plane hit building two and also the collapse later. That smell you talk about and the emotions are very prevelent. I try to stay away from the 911 postings just for this reason. I have posted in a few but it takes too much mind space to try to grasp why it is so many keep rubbing salt into the wounds of the surviving members of families that where directly involved.

On the Eleventh, at the appropriate time, I will raise a glass of the finest Tulemore Dew to those that we lost and those that stayed and worked so hard to try and help those that survived!!!

Zindo

[edit on 9/8/2008 by ZindoDoone]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
I must add though...after a century of watching villians exploding buildings and attacking cities in hollywood movies, after paying for these movies, supporting them, watching them with fascination and glee, wishing for more action, more explosions, more, more, more...we didnt expect the real thing to feel this bad, did we?

For us, the disasters always happened in far off, distant countries and were things we could watch on the News while eating Popcorn. I think it was quite a wake-up call for it to happen right at our doorstep. A wake-up call to more awareness, more care and to be more alert.

Once again another member's perspective has brought up a very valid viewpoint on this issue. Undoubtably, as we grow we get increasingly numb to violence and suffering, though you wouldn't know it from this thread. And television is a major influence in this regard. But something skyfloating said triggered a "new" memory in me, in fact one which gas never occurred to me before.

My wife woke me up when the first plane hit, that in itself is a thread topic. How do you react to news like that coming from a dream state? So we walk the 50 yards to West Street with all the people and chaos, then we see the second plane, you know the rest...

Over the couple of weeks that followed, our life in practical terms was as follows.
Tracking down lost friends and neighbors, watching local/national news at all times, supporting the EMT guys/workers etc. on West Street with whatever they needed. Basically the stuff that EVERYONE was doing.

My point is this. There was something very surreal and very difficult for the brain to process about the continuous alternate back and forth from the street to the apartment. I guess the best way to describe it is, imagine if a massive UFO landed on earth and in your neighborhood, and it was world news, but you are having coffee with the aliens. It's a little like that, just in a much more terrible and gut wrenching way.

Our brains are not really built to cope with these alternating realities, the one on tv and the one on your doorstep, in such close proximity. Especially when these realities are so extreme. You end up watching tv and the news as a different person that the one walking the streets. It is a massive drain on the brain and the emotions because in effect you are living this through two identities, both audience and participant.

I remember when I was in high school I wrote a story about the dissociative nature of television. A simple story based on an inner city couple who gets so caught up in watching the news of a massive fire in their city, such is their focus, that they don't realize that that same fire is nearing them, and eventually get consumed by that very fire.

So these days, when I look back I carry with me two sets of memories.
And I think it is the "participant" in me who gets hit when this time of year comes around. Paradoxically it is the tv documentaries or memorials that trigger this. And it is the dissociative "audience" in me which allows me to talk to you guys about this freely.

I have no idea if I described this well enough.

For someone who doesn't want to talk about it..and others, there sure is alot of chirping going on.

Unfortunatly , OP, you will never escape this event as long as capitalism is alive and well.

I'm sure very soon there will be 10th anniversary coins and crappy t-shirts available on the home shopping network just so we "don't forget".

I see the pitch now

"You can 'never forget' for only $19.95"

F-ing douche bags!

End communication.

Originally posted by dariousg
So, as easy as it is for you to want to forget (and the psychology behind it is very valid so I do truly understand why you want to), it would be terrible to turn our backs on those that lost their lives then and since because of that day.

Hey dariousg.

I think that you have misunderstood my feelings on this issue.
I did say in the OP: "For others..., we'd be very happy to never hear of it again."

And that is true, but that doesn't mean I want to "forget." That would be like resisting the sunrise.

I m here, on ATS, and I read the 9/11 threads with interest, and I am writing this thread. And on several of my posts I have reiterated that I admire and respect those who undertake the task of seeking the truth. I think if you take everything into account, it's a pretty healthy way to approach things. It doesn't indicate me trying to forget, does it?

But acceptance is a different thing than pursuit. For me to get involved and engaged personally in the 9/11 debate is not on the cards for this moment. But surely that is not meant as a slight to those who do. At least I hope it is not.

reply to post by DazE777


The one I think deserves a large bag of crap award goes to that ridiculous 20 dollar bill being touted on tv adds. A totaly worthless object that insults everybody and at least should be considered fraud. What absolute BS!!!!


Zindo
PS: sorry didn't mean to derail thread. Just agreeing with you!

Originally posted by DazE777
For someone who doesn't want to talk about it..and others, there sure is alot of chirping going on.

This is not aimed at you Daz,

I thought the irony of starting a thread called I don't want to talk about it ..." was self evident.

The point of the thread is to open the door to all to talk about how these days affect us.


So for the sake of clarity, title addendum: Let's talk about it, if you so wish.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


I hope I didn't give you the impression that I thought New Yorkers were doing that! Wasn't my intent at all, I just wanted to get the point across that while that particular weather event made 9/11 a little bit more tangible to me, the scale of the devestation absolutely did not compare.

Off of the internet, I've never actually met a 9/11 survivor/witness, and I have to say that no one has ever given me the you weren't there, you don' t understand attitude. Until you bring the conspiracy theories in, 9/11 is one of the only events we can all think about without argument.

Sad post...

But are the innocent Iraqi's, Afgans and god knows who else, also worthy of a toast of remembance?

Since your corrupt government did much, much more than destroying its own people.

Lots of people died on 9/11, but still many, many more people are smelling that vile smell of death in unconnected countries.... where US soldiers are too blind to realise that the people they are murdering in the name of 'the war against terrorism' are not the same people who commited those acts.

Yet, the soldiers are too blinded by hate and ignorance to realise this.
Your media is too controlled to show you this...
Most people care little for the unknown children crushed by US bombs...

and unfortunately, i feel your pain, anger and hurt, but Americans were not the only people to suffer....

Originally posted by asmeone2
reply to post by schrodingers dog

 

I hope I didn't give you the impression that I thought New Yorkers were doing that! Wasn't my intent at all, I just wanted to get the point across that while that particular weather event made 9/11 a little bit more tangible to me, the scale of the devestation absolutely did not compare.

Ohasmeone2 no, you did not give that impression.
You were very helpful bringing a very sensitive subject out.
I just wanted to make sure that no one should ever be made to feel like they have to minimize their 9/11 experience to me or any other New Yorker. People do it general out of respect, I just wanted to relieve that. We're all the same in this, it is part of our generation. There's never a need to qualify your emotions on this topic.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Thank you, SD, for this heartfelt post.

I think that we will never forget that day and always remember the moment our worlds turned upside down. It is cathartic release to share our moments...

I was elated from the previous evening having turned 23 on the 10th and having a most awesome celebration with friends at a sushi bar; went to sleep so content. I awoke out of a deep sleep and being a college student used to sleeping in on a non-class scheduled day I knew something was up. I thought to turn the t.v. on and there it was. I woke my roomates and we proceeded to see the second plane hit on live t.v.... Then the pentagon. Their cousin was inside at the time and so they were scrambling to get ahold of family... the fear, the uncertainty and wondering what will happen next.

Later... I remember the no fly call being made and hearing military planes still over head while I tried to sleep. I felt safe. But this made me think of how may other people in the world who may have been lying under their beds and were afraid to sleep. I thought 23 years of my life and I never felt that before. The fear of war or attack.

I am having a hard time trying to convey what it is I am trying to say...

...I turn 30 this year. Not a year goes by without that scar itching...

Somehow I have found myself without any more words or cohesive sentence. I will just end by saying I pray for the day when noone in the world goes to sleep afraid.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Sad post...

But are the innocent Iraqi's, Afgans and god knows who else, also worthy of a toast of remembance?

Since the OP has skipped my post, i'll take it as... I guess not.

Supposedly CERN is going to be fired up on Sept 10th.

So maybe there will be more coverage on that.

But it's hard to tell.

Re-living 9/11 doesn't do much good for those that were severely affected. It's like pouring salt on a wound.

Check out "Shock Doctrine" on YouTube. Then it will make more sense why they keep doing it every Sept 11th.

I had a link to it here but got a U2U, asking out of courtesy if I would remove it, so I did.



[edit on 9/8/2008 by Ceara]

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Sad post...
But are the innocent Iraqi's, Afgans and god knows who else, also worthy of a toast of remembance?

Since the OP has skipped my post, i'll take it as... I guess not.

I didn't miss your post mr-lizard. I am trying to respond as fast as I can to everyone who participates. It is not always easy. But I'm on it now.

Of course my heart goes out to everyone who suffered on that day or as a result of that event everywhere around the world.

And I welcome everyone's participation on this thread to share their experience, including any of our international members. Like I have now said many times, everyone's experience is equal and special.

What I would ask out of courtesy though, is to avoid getting into a political discussion on the subject here. I ask this not to minimize the devastating lasting affects of 9/11, but to try and stay on the more personal level that the thread requires.

I am also happy to have those political discussions on the appropriate threads and forums.

Ohasmeone2 no, you did not give that impression.
You were very helpful bringing a very sensitive subject out.
I just wanted to make sure that no one should ever be made to feel like they have to minimize their 9/11 experience to me or any other New Yorker. People do it general out of respect, I just wanted to relieve that. We're all the same in this, it is part of our generation. There's never a need to qualify your emotions on this topic.

Agreed, but at the same time I recognize that I didn't know anyone who died, I didn't see the planes hit or the towers go down, I experienced it indierectly through TV... I was shocked, scared, whaterver, but that doesn't compare to the people who were actually there to experience it, and loose someone close to them.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Actually, I'm sorry... I'd allowed myself to get annoyed on another thread and for some reason carried it over to this one.

I am sorry, some people forget about people on the other side of the world, obviously after re-reading, you don't. Reading some of the posts on here, have made me realise that this is not one of those threads.

It's so sad, that even today, people are still suffering from the effects of this terrible event, everywhere from New York to Baghdad... But sometimes, i don't know which is worse...

The constant reminder of past horrors, or the guilt that could come with forgetting something on this scale? Which is the lesser of two evils?

Peace and apologies for my insensitivity and impatience.

Mr L