Ok, let me see if I can get this out the right way.
I have been getting some amazingly supportive U2Us from so many wonderful people.
Thank you all for your kindness. Some of you wanted a few more details from that day. Right now I have to force myself to remember so I'll go slow
and maybe post things later as they come to me.
We moved to DC three years ago and our friends here are removed from the 9/11 situation in NYC. So I haven't actually talked or expressed myself on
this subject for at least three years. Until today. And I am glad that I did it.
One of the questions that keeps coming up, naturally for ATS, is my personal take on whether 9/11 was an inside job or not. By the way, I have done
no research on the subject believe me.
I have a strange relationship with 9/11 insofar as the possibility of an inside job. One of the few differences between living in NYC on that day as
opposed to somewhere else, is that to those that were there, it seems to matter much less. I know, you would think the opposite. But when you lose
family and friends you naturally polarize towards closure, any closure. You can observe this these days, NYC just extended free med checkups for
anyone who used to live in lower Manhattan, but most people aren't going, the ones who go aren't rushing. For my wife and I, the only time we ever
talk about it is these days, and only for one minute to acknowledge that the dark cloud in our house is seasonal and not of our own making. The part
that is difficult to explain to some people is that when they know you were there, and the anniversary date is coming, they keep trying to comfort
you. And most of the time you just don't want to talk about it. And they often get mad. Being there on that day and that close, literally breathing
in your friends and neighbors, no matter what anyone tells you, it means nothing WHO really did it.
Humans did it, we did it. That's the source of my sadness today and every year around this date. I've gotten past the two months of funerals, I'm
ok writing to all my friends' parents every August. But we did this to ourselves as a species. The closer your proximity to that moment the more
overwhelming this realization becomes. What good are the names and identities to me? But that is not to say that it doesn't matter. And I
participate on board which has forums where this is discussed every day. And like I said in the OP, I am happy and touched that people care enough to
do that. It's just not for me.
Does that make sense?
I don't want to talk about it . . . , page 2
privacy
reply posted on 7-9-2008 @ 10:12 PM by dunwichwitch
reply to post by schrodingers dog
I'm not good at comforting people. I'm not going to comfort you. Because even myself (being nowhere near NYC at the time, instead stuck in class with a teacher who enjoyed listening to radical Christian radio stations) was and still feel very uncomfortable about it all. To make things worse, at the time, this stupid damn teacher turned her favorite radical Christian station on and told us all to hush and listen... and these evangelical crazy hosts were reciting apocalypse quotes and saying that buildings EVERYWHERE were collapsing and that we're all gunna suffer rapture and IT'S THE END!!!! Dude, I and like 25 other kids barely sophomores in high school .... we were petrified and some were sobbing, and I was screaming "What in the F is happening!?!?!?!"
I calmed down a lot when the principle came over the intercom and said something had happened in New York City... but I was still afraid. I thought we were entering the Third World War that day and it would be fought right here. I knew it was an "attack" right after the announcement had ended. I breifly tried telling myself that it was just some bad pilots (sound familiar?).
I understand it must have been much more devastating actually BEING there... but don't think the whole nation wasn't very near the same level of traumatization as you, on some perhaps more subconscious level... at least the ones who have a brain and are thinking of the implications. I guess the whole reason it's so hard to get the "truth" or even the questions through to people is because subconsciously, most of America was too scared to even know what to think. So it was like etching an idea into a molten mind. It was so easy to do, and when the mind cooled off, the official idea of what had happened stayed there perhaps forever.
I think at some point, you will need to know or aknowledge SOMETHING is DRASTICALLY wrong, SD.... but I will tell you that it will be very very emotionally draining for you, considering YOU WERE THERE. I live in Illinois, and I was basically locked in my room for two weeks in the deepest depression I've ever had.
I dunno what is more traumatizing: the event, the official story, or the real truth... whatever that may be.
I'm not going to comfort you, because these times are not comfortable, and I will not lie to someone and tell them it's going to be okay, because I just don't know. I just wanna say don't let your traumatization overcome your ability to respond once things become really hairy.
I could comfort you in a certain philosophical way, but I don't think it would be appropriate to do here and now in this particular discussion.
I'm not good at comforting people. I'm not going to comfort you. Because even myself (being nowhere near NYC at the time, instead stuck in class with a teacher who enjoyed listening to radical Christian radio stations) was and still feel very uncomfortable about it all. To make things worse, at the time, this stupid damn teacher turned her favorite radical Christian station on and told us all to hush and listen... and these evangelical crazy hosts were reciting apocalypse quotes and saying that buildings EVERYWHERE were collapsing and that we're all gunna suffer rapture and IT'S THE END!!!! Dude, I and like 25 other kids barely sophomores in high school .... we were petrified and some were sobbing, and I was screaming "What in the F is happening!?!?!?!"
I calmed down a lot when the principle came over the intercom and said something had happened in New York City... but I was still afraid. I thought we were entering the Third World War that day and it would be fought right here. I knew it was an "attack" right after the announcement had ended. I breifly tried telling myself that it was just some bad pilots (sound familiar?).
I understand it must have been much more devastating actually BEING there... but don't think the whole nation wasn't very near the same level of traumatization as you, on some perhaps more subconscious level... at least the ones who have a brain and are thinking of the implications. I guess the whole reason it's so hard to get the "truth" or even the questions through to people is because subconsciously, most of America was too scared to even know what to think. So it was like etching an idea into a molten mind. It was so easy to do, and when the mind cooled off, the official idea of what had happened stayed there perhaps forever.
I think at some point, you will need to know or aknowledge SOMETHING is DRASTICALLY wrong, SD.... but I will tell you that it will be very very emotionally draining for you, considering YOU WERE THERE. I live in Illinois, and I was basically locked in my room for two weeks in the deepest depression I've ever had.
I dunno what is more traumatizing: the event, the official story, or the real truth... whatever that may be.
I'm not going to comfort you, because these times are not comfortable, and I will not lie to someone and tell them it's going to be okay, because I just don't know. I just wanna say don't let your traumatization overcome your ability to respond once things become really hairy.
I could comfort you in a certain philosophical way, but I don't think it would be appropriate to do here and now in this particular discussion.
reply posted on 7-9-2008 @ 11:35 PM by americandingbat
reply to post by schrodingers dog
Only when I can't stop myself
Seriously, they upset me a lot. I know things were covered up that day; I know things were covered up in the weeks and months that followed in terms of what we were breathing, etc. I personally doubt that anyone outside Al Qaeda was directly responsible and I have absolutely no doubt that the planes were real.
It wouldn't totally surprise me if WTC7 were demolished because stuff that was in the federal offices there was too sensitive to have just anyone find. But I could care less.
Do you?
Edit: because on rereading I find this could be taken to mean that I don't think the threads should exist. That's not at all what I mean. I think it's very important that people try to find the truth -- it's just not something I can look at objectively. And when those threads get trolls on them it's sometimes really hard to restrain myself from joining in.
[edit on 9/7/08 by americandingbat]
Only when I can't stop myself
Seriously, they upset me a lot. I know things were covered up that day; I know things were covered up in the weeks and months that followed in terms of what we were breathing, etc. I personally doubt that anyone outside Al Qaeda was directly responsible and I have absolutely no doubt that the planes were real.
It wouldn't totally surprise me if WTC7 were demolished because stuff that was in the federal offices there was too sensitive to have just anyone find. But I could care less.
Do you?
Edit: because on rereading I find this could be taken to mean that I don't think the threads should exist. That's not at all what I mean. I think it's very important that people try to find the truth -- it's just not something I can look at objectively. And when those threads get trolls on them it's sometimes really hard to restrain myself from joining in.
[edit on 9/7/08 by americandingbat]
reply posted on 7-9-2008 @ 11:56 PM by schrodingers dog
reply to post by americandingbat
Some days I log on and a new thread with new information might be very active and I will read the OP and the first couple of posts with interest. I have noticed that usually if you go past the first page people just get really nasty with each other. I guess they are passionate or emotionally heavily invested in the process. This is a little strange for me to watch, cause I read all this anger in their posts, and I wonder how come I'm not that angry? I mean, I was there, shouldn't I be? Then I feel a little guilty, I guess. Then I stop reading.
Some days I log on and a new thread with new information might be very active and I will read the OP and the first couple of posts with interest. I have noticed that usually if you go past the first page people just get really nasty with each other. I guess they are passionate or emotionally heavily invested in the process. This is a little strange for me to watch, cause I read all this anger in their posts, and I wonder how come I'm not that angry? I mean, I was there, shouldn't I be? Then I feel a little guilty, I guess. Then I stop reading.
reply posted on 8-9-2008 @ 12:03 AM by americandingbat
reply to post by schrodingers dog
I think it's important for all of us, whether we were in NY or not, to remember that there is no "should" with feelings. What we feel is what we feel. This year I'm angry -- that hasn't been the case in other years.
You're feeling something, or you wouldn't have started this thread. That may be enough this year.
I think it's important for all of us, whether we were in NY or not, to remember that there is no "should" with feelings. What we feel is what we feel. This year I'm angry -- that hasn't been the case in other years.
You're feeling something, or you wouldn't have started this thread. That may be enough this year.
reply posted on 8-9-2008 @ 12:21 AM by schrodingers dog
reply to post by asmeone2
asmeone2, you brought something up, and I'm glad that you did, that I've always felt needs to be addressed but is very difficult to talk about.
No New Yorker that I know has ever expressed the events of 9/11 to me, in public or in private, in a way that emotionally monopolizes the event. That is to say, I have never heard a New Yorker say something like "you weren't there." I hope to god no one has said something like that to anyone on ATS. If they have, you can almost take it as proof that they weren't. That's just not the way people felt. No one, let me repeat NO ONE, who was there would ever wish it on anyone. (now you got me all emotional)
So it's ok, when we talk about this stuff, you don't need to say "I know I wasn't there" when you talk about it. At least not on this thread, no one needs to feel like they have to qualify or minimize their experience on my or any other New Yorker's account.
We were all there, period!
[edit on 9/8/2008 by schrodingers dog]
asmeone2, you brought something up, and I'm glad that you did, that I've always felt needs to be addressed but is very difficult to talk about.
No New Yorker that I know has ever expressed the events of 9/11 to me, in public or in private, in a way that emotionally monopolizes the event. That is to say, I have never heard a New Yorker say something like "you weren't there." I hope to god no one has said something like that to anyone on ATS. If they have, you can almost take it as proof that they weren't. That's just not the way people felt. No one, let me repeat NO ONE, who was there would ever wish it on anyone. (now you got me all emotional)
So it's ok, when we talk about this stuff, you don't need to say "I know I wasn't there" when you talk about it. At least not on this thread, no one needs to feel like they have to qualify or minimize their experience on my or any other New Yorker's account.
We were all there, period!
[edit on 9/8/2008 by schrodingers dog]
reply posted on 8-9-2008 @ 12:31 AM by NorthWolfe CND
reply to post by schrodingers dog
I was at "Windows of the World" a few months before 9/11. I remember, me and my friend, waiting for other parties to arrive for an informal meeting, loosely talking about how we hated the WTC. How we thought it was an architectural mistake, how it tarnished New York's Gothic stile, and things of the sort...
After 9/11 my friend started developed a guilt complex, because of that conversation. He keeps bringing it up, like somehow our architectural criticism was at fault for the events of that day. He is still obviously haunted by an innocent, time wasting, conversation we had...
The human brain is a marvelous organ, but when it turns against you...
Hope you can overcome the troubles you have, at least, I think, you are taking a step in the right direction, by talking about them
I was at "Windows of the World" a few months before 9/11. I remember, me and my friend, waiting for other parties to arrive for an informal meeting, loosely talking about how we hated the WTC. How we thought it was an architectural mistake, how it tarnished New York's Gothic stile, and things of the sort...
After 9/11 my friend started developed a guilt complex, because of that conversation. He keeps bringing it up, like somehow our architectural criticism was at fault for the events of that day. He is still obviously haunted by an innocent, time wasting, conversation we had...
The human brain is a marvelous organ, but when it turns against you...
Hope you can overcome the troubles you have, at least, I think, you are taking a step in the right direction, by talking about them
reply posted on 8-9-2008 @ 07:07 AM by kacou
reply to post by schrodingers dog
You where there and felt all what you have wrote in this post.
If I can talk just about myself, I wasn’t there; I was in Dubai seeing it on live TV at that precise time and have felt in my inter being a sense of disbelief (maybe supported from what Skyfloating had posted). This disbelief mutated to mouth bitterness, trough irritation, heart pounding, muscles shivered.
My mind was not mingling about the act as about the meaning of my self confronted with this real event. Would I carry my life in the same way that I did prior to the event? No I didn’t, I have no clue what really happen on this day of great alteration, because if this date can be remember apart from all this loss of life, dramatic change is what has happen, only fools hadn’t change from this date…
I had since retired from the rat race and thought to care more about life then I did before.
Have courage and lucidity.
Kacou.
You where there and felt all what you have wrote in this post.
If I can talk just about myself, I wasn’t there; I was in Dubai seeing it on live TV at that precise time and have felt in my inter being a sense of disbelief (maybe supported from what Skyfloating had posted). This disbelief mutated to mouth bitterness, trough irritation, heart pounding, muscles shivered.
My mind was not mingling about the act as about the meaning of my self confronted with this real event. Would I carry my life in the same way that I did prior to the event? No I didn’t, I have no clue what really happen on this day of great alteration, because if this date can be remember apart from all this loss of life, dramatic change is what has happen, only fools hadn’t change from this date…
I had since retired from the rat race and thought to care more about life then I did before.
Have courage and lucidity.
Kacou.
reply posted on 8-9-2008 @ 07:18 AM by argentus
reply to post by schrodingers dog
SD, first, thank you for baring your soul, so to speak..... and sharing the very human impact of this event. I have experienced triggers that bring up horrific events in a ver visceral manner, and while I cannot imagine the horror of 9/11, I can relate to your recounting. You don't want to talk about it, and yet perhaps you need to in order to rebalance yourself. It's not a matter of exorcising the memory -- that's a part of you and who you have become. Perhaps in some way we need to remember and keep these things alive in order to utilize the lessons.
Personally, I find that smell/taste is a very strong trigger to good and bad times, but in particular horrible events, and the shock of a flashback of some of these triggers can be -- as you said, physical in their impact.
Thank you SD, for your perceptions, your honesty, your wit.
On a somewhat off-topic note, I happened to stumble across the source of your avatar this weekend, during a window in the rains and wind when and rain let up briefly. Perfect choice.
Wind and rain picking up now. Not a bad even for our nation, but very concerned for Cuba and the U.S. beyond that. Be safe all
Cheers
SD, first, thank you for baring your soul, so to speak..... and sharing the very human impact of this event. I have experienced triggers that bring up horrific events in a ver visceral manner, and while I cannot imagine the horror of 9/11, I can relate to your recounting. You don't want to talk about it, and yet perhaps you need to in order to rebalance yourself. It's not a matter of exorcising the memory -- that's a part of you and who you have become. Perhaps in some way we need to remember and keep these things alive in order to utilize the lessons.
Personally, I find that smell/taste is a very strong trigger to good and bad times, but in particular horrible events, and the shock of a flashback of some of these triggers can be -- as you said, physical in their impact.
Thank you SD, for your perceptions, your honesty, your wit.
On a somewhat off-topic note, I happened to stumble across the source of your avatar this weekend, during a window in the rains and wind when and rain let up briefly. Perfect choice.
Wind and rain picking up now. Not a bad even for our nation, but very concerned for Cuba and the U.S. beyond that. Be safe all
Cheers
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