The Evidence For Jesus' Existence Is Nothing But Hearsay

reply to post by mhc_70


Please "Google": The Piso Family of Rome.

Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables. (Mark 4:11)

The life of Christ is a parable. That does not necessarily make it false, but he that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
Physical evidence is proven through spiritual awareness.

What about all the near death experiences? Should every single one be discounted? But even with those aside - what about his followers that willingly laid down their lives for what he stood for?

Now, that opens up another whole theological can of worms. To accept the validity of NDEs is to accept the doctrine of reincarnation and the validity of all of the world's major religions, as well as the total rejection of the notion of bodily resurrection.

reply to post by AlexG141989



Umm, what if the Jesus Story, as spoon fed from church, is really the heresy which puts our souls in peril?

/wishing there were pizza toppings around- then I could ask god directly

reply to post by GrndLkNatv


that is pascals wager - not a " truth table "

Do not forget that Jesus is mentioned rigorously in Quran, and that he's the most quoted prophet by name in the Quran these quotes are not taken from the bible but God's own questions towards Jesus that he answers in the Quran. So Jesus did existed. He also prophesied that another prophet will come after him and he was right, Muhammad was the last prophet after Jesus.

the falacy of the "Damnatio memoriae" defence

its dammed funny that people claim the romans erased all records , while continuing to rely on the " evidence " of the writings of pliny the younger , josephus , tacitus , lucian etc

its truely amazing

reply to post by Salvatore_Rubberface


and when was the koran written ???????????

reply to post by ignorant_ape


Yeah but it proves Jesus's existence granted that its written centuries later but you cant rule out Jesus, he's mentioned every where.

reply to post by Salvatore_Rubberface

you cant rule out Jesus, he's mentioned every where.

by your logic harry potter is real - he is ` mentioned everywhere ` too

reply to post by Manasseh


Mnasseh
I hope He has more faith in you than
you do in Him.
Jesus has no faith in any man that is why we need a saviour!

here's some pretty powerful stuff, sorry if it goes a little off topic but to me this is proof of his existance

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by kacou
reply to post by Alienmojo

 

You have to ask your self why this people are reacting this way in conflict with religion, and as you have invited people to “think a little”. Then do the same and ask you’re self in which Jesus you believe? Is it the really true Jesus or is it a Jesus that you have connoted through old scripture and theological essays.
Kacou.

Regardless of which Jesus I believe in makes no difference to this argument. All it takes is for one of these Jesus' to exist to make me right. Right now we are arguing if Jesus EVEN existed and we both know he did. If the Romans perpetuated any myth (which I do not for one second believe) it would not have helped them in the least. The whole reason the quard was placed on Jesus' tomb was so that a myth could not be begun in the first place!

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by Salvatore_Rubberface

 

you cant rule out Jesus, he's mentioned every where.

by your logic harry potter is real - he is ` mentioned everywhere ` too

But not in the same context nor to the extreme that Jesus is mentioned. You don't see people saying, "Harry Potter!" and you don't see people who don't believe in Harry Potter praying to him in life or death situations as some non-believers do when they know death is immienent.

There is one thing that believers have over non-believers. If we are right we go to heaven and if we are wrong we get nothingness... if they are wrong they could go to hell, if they are right...nothingness. Non-believers have 'nothing' to win and everything to lose.

reply to post by mhc_70


So your using the bible to prove the validity of the bible?
is this not circular reasoning?


Is this the only source you can point to in relation to Pilate amazingly putting to death someone who claimed to be a living god and was apparently raising the dead ?

Was it Peter or Paul that was bringing smoked fish back to life and making dogs talk ? I can't seem to remember ?

However I didn't witness these miracles so can be excused of being slightly Ignorant, but there seems to be little excuse for history completely failing to find making dogs talk and such noteworthy.

reply to post by Alienmojo


Ever since the release of the Star Wars films, thousands of people have looked at the scripts and storylines to enterpate them in to every day life. This eventually lead to a 'religion'. Now, over half a million people throughout the world call themselves Jedi, and believe in 'the ways of the force'. Jedi Sanctuary, an online temple dedicated to 'Jediism', has been accepted in to the Universal life Church - declaring it as an 'official' religion.

Please give this info some deep thought before you dismiss Harry Potter, you may think it silly but to a rational person no more silly than the Jesus cult

reply to post by TruthParadox


Truth paradox

" the dead arose and walked in jerusulem"

I note with interest that you have not received one single reply to explain the validity of this bible verse.

Here we have an event that even to us in the modern world would have been on every human tongue.


There is NOT even ONE word outside this bible verse describing what can only be called "THE DAWN OF THE DEAD"

Nowhere in any historical manuscript of that era ( or before or later) has ther been recorded such an earth shattering event !

The alledged miracle of jesus returning out of nowhere 3 days after his alledged death , pales in comparison to this alledged event.

THE DECOMPOSING DEAD CRAWLED OUT OF THEIR GRAVES AND WENT FOR A STROLL TO TOWN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ??????????????

And the world simply forgot about it ?
Or was it an everyday event back then, like the Lepers go to the Mall on monday and the Dead pop their coffin lids on tuesday to go bowling.

COME ON !!!!!!!!!


Excuse me sir I belive you dropped your ear in the taxi

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
The evidence for Jesus' existence is nothing but hearsay?
I'm sorry, what year is it again? End of discussion.

You seem to be arguing that because we name the year after Jesus, that means he existed.

Well,
we name the days after Gods like Thor (Thursday.)

We name the months after Gods like Juno (e.g. Juno.)

So,
According to your argument, that means these Gods existed.

Showing this argument is nonsense.

Anyway -
the current dating system was created in the 7th century, (and is wrong by a few years.)

And -
there are various different dating systems in the world - NOT just the one YOU use.


Iasion

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
The evidence for Jesus' existence is nothing but hearsay?
I'm sorry, what year is it again? End of discussion.

the year , why its 2008 CE

thats common era

why you ask ?

PS - you do realise that the arab world uses a different callender , as do the chinese - and nither references jesus

Hi all,

Originally posted by OldThinker
Aside from the many Messianic predictions in the Old Testament, not one of the four Gospels or the 23 other documents in the New Testament would make an ounce of sense if Jesus had never lived. Did the whole cavalcade of well-known historical personalities in the first century A.D. who interacted with Jesus deal with a vacuum? Did Herod the Great try to terminate an infant ghost?

What silliness.
Herod did not terminate a "ghost".
He didn't terminate anyone.
The entire story is fantasy.
It never happened.

Not ONE of the NT books was written by anyone who ever met any historical Jesus.

Originally posted by OldThinkerNo one doubts that the above names are well known from both sacred and secular sources, as well as archaeological evidence, and are therefore historical. The same is clearly true of Jesus of Nazareth. But why, then, is Jesus not permitted the "luxury" of actually having lived as did the rest of these? Why the double standard here?

No double standard - it's the ONE standard, but the stories are vastly different :

* Pilate e.g. is a typical ruler, and he is known to history
* Jesus is a God-like being with supernatural powers, but is completely UNKNOWN to history

Originally posted by OldThinker
Another long paragraph could be devoted to writings of the early church fathers, some of whom had close contact with New Testament personalities. Jesus' disciple John, for example, later became bishop of the church at Ephesus. One of his students was Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna, and a student of his, in turn, was Irenaeus of Lyons. The centerpiece in all of their writings was Jesus the Christ ("Messiah").

More Christian stories.
Please present the actual EVIDENCE.
There is none.
It's just later Christian stories told about earlier Christian stories.
None of which is supported by historical evidence.

Originally posted by OldThinker
Apart from such living personal links to Jesus, both geographical and temporal tangencies appear in Justin Martyr. Born of pagan parents around A.D. 100 in Nablus (between Judea and Galilee), Justin tried and abandoned various philosophical schools until he found in Christianity the one true teaching. As a native of the Holy Land, Justin mentions sites associated with Jesus, such as the Bethlehem grotto in which he was born, and even such details as Jesus working as an apprentice carpenter in the shop of his foster father Joseph, where they specialized in producing such agricultural implements as yokes for oxen and plows.

So what?
Harry Potter has a typical human back-ground.
That does not make him real.

Originally posted by OldThinker
The Jewish rabbinical traditions not only mention Jesus...

Gee, funny how you miss all the good bits in the Jewish stories about Jesus :
* that he was a bastard son of a Roman soldier
* that he learned black magic in egypt
* that he had 5 disciples
* that he was stoned to death in Lydda
* etc.

These are nothing more than nasty stories made up about Jesus CENTURIES after his life.

Originally posted by OldThinker
Moreover, the first-century Jewish historian, Flavius Josephus,

A text that is CORRUPT, and NOT from Jesus' time.


There is no contemporary historical evidence for Jesus.


Iasion

Originally posted by mhc_70
Not sure about anybody else around here, but if many different manuscripts from over 1500 years ago all made mention of the same person surrounded by the same events, I would have logically conclude that that person existed.

Really?

Well -
"many different manuscripts from over 1500 years ago" mention Krishna - so, you believe HE existed?

"many different manuscripts from over 1500 years ago" mention Hercules - so, you believe HE existed?

"many different manuscripts from over 1500 years ago" mention Odysseus - so, you believe HE existed?


It's a nonsense argument.


Iasion