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Cheney Wags Finger At A Defiant Russia

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posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 09:25 AM
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reply to post by manson_322
 


That would be great. America would then know where they are located. Our F22's and B-2's would have a turkey shoot.

America needs a good reason to take out "Dirty Chavez"...




posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by manson_322
I hope that Russia deploys nuclear and biological weapons in Cuba and Venezuala , to protect them from the fascist genocidal american Govt



Here you go again with the damn bio weapons. I am starting to HATE you. Your comments make me want to fight a war with whatever country your from. You have an evil spirit.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 11:50 AM
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Yes everyone America has been bad the last 100 years. If it wasn't for those darn Russians the world would be over now. Russia has never done anything wrong. They never drove people over with tanks in Czech. They never forced the warsaw pact to join. As a matter of fact I see the warsaw pact lining up in droves to support the Russian position.

This is ridiculous, Russia can sell whoever what ever and that is fine. Everytime you see a terrorist, or pretty much any aggressor, they always have AK's. They have a # fit about patriots going to poland, why can't poland have defensive weapons.

Your arguments are weak, Russia must offset US defense weapons with offensive weapons. Why did Russia threaten to nuke Poland. I don't see how some of you Americans can even take the position you take besides being niave, and maybe to young to remember the cold war.

I'm not advocating that the US does everything right, but Russia has a long long record of being brutal. I'm sorry it is what it is, and just because they may not be quite as brutal as they were, you guys are making them seem like some angels who never did wrong. And that is what I resist most. Use Manson's comments for reference. That doesn't seem very peaceful to me.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by greysave
 


You see, that's Exactly what Manson_322 wants. He made you mad, who else? I think he is funny as hell popping up here and there, and spewing nonsense(Forum terrorist).

One thing he's good at is rattling on about Soviet weapons specs, but even that is mediocre.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 11:59 AM
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VP Cheney needs to go back to that Retirement Home he came from and learn to knit or something............damn warmongers! Not going to be happy until they are glowing in the dark.........



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by Sky watcher
 




I have seen more than enough proof that Russia had this war planned months ahead of time. Georgia did not start this, The Russian backed SO terrorist did by shelling Georgian villages with mortars starting days before to get Georgia to hit back giving Russia an excuse to invade them.


Well I haven't seen this information.
Why don't you post it.
Start a thread and post the info.
If what you say is true.





...what's black and white and red all over?...



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by greysave

Originally posted by manson_322
I hope that Russia deploys nuclear and biological weapons in Cuba and Venezuala , to protect them from the fascist genocidal american Govt



Here you go again with the damn bio weapons. I am starting to HATE you. Your comments make me want to fight a war with whatever country your from. You have an evil spirit.


Do a search and see what happens to people in nuclear and biological attacks it ain't pretty....the Russians do not have a death wish any more than the US does.....and there will not be any such thing as a limited nuclear exchange once they start pressing buttons they are not going to stop. Each country has to ask itself "do I feel lucky?"



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by The_Alarmist2012
 


Somebody please erase these three stooges (Bush-Cheney-Rice) from history before they pull another rabbit out of their war mongering hats


All his miscalculations, wagging and finger pointing only gets his hunting partners and ultimately America... an accidental bullet in the ass! Russia im sure has a much better aim.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by greysave
Yes everyone America has been bad the last 100 years. If it wasn't for those darn Russians the world would be over now. Russia has never done anything wrong. They never drove people over with tanks in Czech. They never forced the warsaw pact to join. As a matter of fact I see the warsaw pact lining up in droves to support the Russian position.


What does the Warsaw Pact and Soviet Union have to do with this or any other discussion about Russia? How long do you need to keep digging in the past to justify your present opinions?



Originally posted by greysave
This is ridiculous, Russia can sell whoever what ever and that is fine. Everytime you see a terrorist, or pretty much any aggressor, they always have AK's.


You do know that Russia isn't the only one that makes AK's right? And how do you define "terrorist" and "aggressor"? You may see a terrorist with an AK, but to someone else it looks like a liberator.



Originally posted by greysave
They have a # fit about patriots going to poland, why can't poland have defensive weapons.


It can. But those missiles aren't meant to defend Poland. And why can't Russia increase gas and oil prices, target its ICBMs at whoever it likes, or develop new ICBM technology? Why does the West throw a # fit whenever Russia does something of the sort?



Originally posted by greysave
Your arguments are weak, Russia must offset US defense weapons with offensive weapons.


What is weak about that? You build a thicker wall, and we'll build a bigger siege weapon. You build a defense shield designed to allow the U.S. an edge in nuclear first strike and counter strike capabilities - and Russia will build a new ICBM designed to overcome that edge.



Originally posted by greysave
Why did Russia threaten to nuke Poland.


It never threatened this. Russia merely stated that it will have to target some of its ICBMs at Poland, and does not rule out striking the ABM targets in Poland should a nuclear war take place.

By same logic U.S. is threatening 1/2 of the world by having some of its nukes aimed at or ready to strike against it.



Originally posted by greysave
I don't see how some of you Americans can even take the position you take besides being niave, and maybe to young to remember the cold war.


Maybe you are too young to remember what happened in 1991. Soviet Union fell apart, Communists lost all power, Russia enacted capitalist reforms, and the Cold War ended when the idealogies between Russia and U.S. no longer differed.




Originally posted by greysave
I'm not advocating that the US does everything right, but Russia has a long long record of being brutal.


History is one thing. What is happening today is another thing. Those who live in the past and refuse to recognize vital changes, will always stay in the way of progress.



Originally posted by greysave
I'm sorry it is what it is, and just because they may not be quite as brutal as they were, you guys are making them seem like some angels who never did wrong.


When did anyone say that Russia never did anything wrong or is perfect? Are you putting words in people's mouths? If someone is arguing that in a given case with the given circumstances and background, that Russia is right - that does not mean that they think that Russia is ideal and angelic.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by Level X
reply to post by The_Alarmist2012
 


Somebody please erase these three stooges (Bush-Cheney-Rice) from history before they pull another rabbit out of their war mongering hats


All his miscalculations, wagging and finger pointing only gets his hunting partners and ultimately America... an accidental bullet in the ass! Russia im sure has a much better aim.


I will vote for you for President..........good posts...



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by manson_322
 


You scare the hell out of me with such a statment.

The OP may be a little biased, but come on. Are you looking for another strike on US soil?

I live in Canada so I could care less, but it sound like you want to see the US burnt to a cinder.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 05:41 PM
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What I find Astonishing about the whole Caucasus affair Is the Behaviour of the Russian Army.

Lets say for instance that they were right to go into South Ossetia (Which I dont think they were)

This was a god given opportunity for the Russians to show the world that they are truly honorable and decent but theyre not.

They could have gone into SO repelled the Georgian attack and stayed rebuilding the damage helping the Civilians It would have been a very good Public relations exercise as they could have invited the worlds press and aid agencies and showing those nasty Georgians in a bad light.

But no they run rampant all over allowing looting and murder to follow in their wake. They bomb civilian infrastructure.

To me The Russian Army looked like ill disciplined rabble !

They had a heaven sent opportunity here and they ballsed it up !

If I was the Georgians I would have littered those Georgian villages and Gori with poisened vodka. Gallons of it. Preferably a slow release poisen so that they all had time to drink their fill.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by RedDanDoc
Lets say for instance that they were right to go into South Ossetia (Which I dont think they were)


So in your opinion, sanctioned peacekeepers do not have a right to put a stop to fighting that starts in their area of oversight?



Originally posted by RedDanDoc
They could have gone into SO repelled the Georgian attack and stayed rebuilding the damage helping the Civilians It would have been a very good Public relations exercise as they could have invited the worlds press and aid agencies and showing those nasty Georgians in a bad light.


They did all of the above. Except that the West doesn't care - it has its own pro-Georgia agenda.




Originally posted by RedDanDoc
But no they run rampant all over allowing looting and murder to follow in their wake.


There is no proof of Russian soldiers looting (taking away Georgia's army equipment is not looting but "disarmament"). Much of the footage and pictures show the S Ossetian militia looting. Russia has no control over this militia. And murder? What are you talking about? Some armed Ossetians went berserk, and Russia started disarming them. That's about it. Do not confuse S Ossetian fighters and Russian soldiers. They look virtually the same - but Ossetians do not have any codes or an established command structure.



Originally posted by RedDanDoc
They bomb civilian infrastructure.


Examples? Russian airforce conducted strikes against Georgian military positions - some of which were stationed in and near civilian zones (Gori for example).



Originally posted by RedDanDoc
To me The Russian Army looked like ill disciplined rabble !


And you base that opinion on what? Whatever the Western media showed you?



Originally posted by RedDanDoc
They had a heaven sent opportunity here and they ballsed it up !


Regardless of how Russia would have conducted the operations, it would have faced harsh criticism from the U.S. either way.



Originally posted by RedDanDoc
If I was the Georgians I would have littered those Georgian villages and Gori with poisened vodka. Gallons of it. Preferably a slow release poisen so that they all had time to drink their fill.


Polonium Vodka! Brilliant idea - except that to Russians presence of even a little vodka negates all negative effects and neutralizes the poison. They can eat a kilo of rat poison - and nothing will happen so long as they chug it down with vodka.

Anymore prejudiced and opinioned strategies that are bound to make you look more bigoted?



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by Sky watcher

Where do you come up with this malarky? The U.S. did not even sell Georgia Stingers or advanced anti-tank weapons to keep Russia happy and they still attacked Georgia.

I have seen more than enough proof that Russia had this war planned months ahead of time. Georgia did not start this, The Russian backed SO terrorist did by shelling Georgian villages with mortars starting days before to get Georgia to hit back giving Russia an excuse to invade them.

Georgia responded in defence of its country and SO is thier territory. Russia started the last conflict in this area and that is fact, Its also fact that they killed thousands and should have been brought up on war crimes then let alone now that they have tourched all the villages near SO. Georgians are also being found secretly burried in their homes or back yards so there is no sat pics of any mass graves.


Question is... Where do YOU come up with that crap? I don't think even Fox channel mentioned something absurd like this... I bet you are one of these people who thinks that genocide of Jews never happened!
S. Osetia was never a Georgian territory... after USSR fell a war broke up there in 1991, before USSR, Georgia was owned by Turkey... so Georgia has no right for that territory not only that but S. Osetians who actually lived there for who knows how long don't want to be any part of corrupted Georgian government and people!



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by RedDanDoc
This was a god given opportunity for the Russians to show the world that they are truly honorable and decent but theyre not.


This missed opportunity is of no consequence, the debate over the reasons, who is right or wrong, etc. will have little impact, the ultimate conflict that is brewing between the USA and Russia will be over energy, particularly oil and natural gas. Whichever nation can dominate the world's energy supplies will have a strong measure of control over all nations and economies that are dependant on foreign oil. Losing that dominance to Russia from a US perspective would amount to losing a war without the Russians firing a single weapon on the US. Cheney and the Bush administration will do everything they can to secure US influence and control over Middle Eastern and Caspian sea basin oil and natural gas reserves... The Russians will do the same... Ultimately conflict is inevitable.

This has been building up since well before the Iraq invasion.



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by maloy

Originally posted by RedDanDoc
Lets say for instance that they were right to go into South Ossetia (Which I dont think they were)


So in your opinion, sanctioned peacekeepers do not have a right to put a stop to fighting that starts in their area of oversight?



Originally posted by RedDanDoc
They could have gone into SO repelled the Georgian attack and stayed rebuilding the damage helping the Civilians It would have been a very good Public relations exercise as they could have invited the worlds press and aid agencies and showing those nasty Georgians in a bad light.


They did all of the above. Except that the West doesn't care - it has its own pro-Georgia agenda.




Originally posted by RedDanDoc
But no they run rampant all over allowing looting and murder to follow in their wake.


There is no proof of Russian soldiers looting (taking away Georgia's army equipment is not looting but "disarmament"). Much of the footage and pictures show the S Ossetian militia looting. Russia has no control over this militia. And murder? What are you talking about? Some armed Ossetians went berserk, and Russia started disarming them. That's about it. Do not confuse S Ossetian fighters and Russian soldiers. They look virtually the same - but Ossetians do not have any codes or an established command structure.



Originally posted by RedDanDoc
They bomb civilian infrastructure.


Examples? Russian airforce conducted strikes against Georgian military positions - some of which were stationed in and near civilian zones (Gori for example).



Originally posted by RedDanDoc
To me The Russian Army looked like ill disciplined rabble !


And you base that opinion on what? Whatever the Western media showed you?



Originally posted by RedDanDoc
They had a heaven sent opportunity here and they ballsed it up !


Regardless of how Russia would have conducted the operations, it would have faced harsh criticism from the U.S. either way.



Originally posted by RedDanDoc
If I was the Georgians I would have littered those Georgian villages and Gori with poisened vodka. Gallons of it. Preferably a slow release poisen so that they all had time to drink their fill.


Polonium Vodka! Brilliant idea - except that to Russians presence of even a little vodka negates all negative effects and neutralizes the poison. They can eat a kilo of rat poison - and nothing will happen so long as they chug it down with vodka.

Anymore prejudiced and opinioned strategies that are bound to make you look more bigoted?


Just follow the Party line ok.

And when calling people Bigoted be sure to look in the mirror beforehand that is after you have shaved those hairs off of your fat Red Neck.


[edit on 5-9-2008 by RedDanDoc]



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012

Originally posted by RedDanDoc
This was a god given opportunity for the Russians to show the world that they are truly honorable and decent but theyre not.


This missed opportunity is of no consequence, the debate over the reasons, who is right or wrong, etc. will have little impact, the ultimate conflict that is brewing between the USA and Russia will be over energy, particularly oil and natural gas. Whichever nation can dominate the world's energy supplies will have a strong measure of control over all nations and economies that are dependant on foreign oil. Losing that dominance to Russia from a US perspective would amount to losing a war without the Russians firing a single weapon on the US. Cheney and the Bush administration will do everything they can to secure US influence and control over Middle Eastern and Caspian sea basin oil and natural gas reserves... The Russians will do the same... Ultimately conflict is inevitable.

This has been building up since well before the Iraq invasion.


I agree with you in point but what I am saying Is that if the Russians had a little strategic flair and some good old fashioned common sense and Intelligence they could have conducted their Caucasian adventure in such a way that they would have been above critisism.

The only time there is a Brain that resides in the Kremlin is when its either a Ukrainian , German, Georgian, Polish or an Armenian one.



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by RedDanDoc
The only time there is a Brain that resides in the Kremlin is when its either a Ukrainian , German, Georgian, Polish or an Armenian one.


The only brains that matter are the ones that have control, power and leadership roles... The same on both sides.


Some related news...

Cheney blasts Russia's 'threat of tyranny'



www.msnbc.msn.com...


KIEV, Ukraine - The United States is committed to Ukraine's security and freedom, U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney pledged Friday, suggesting that Russia was posing a "threat of tyranny, economic blackmail and military invasion" to its neighbor.

During a closely watched trip to the ex-Soviet republic, Cheney also repeated that Ukraine would eventually join NATO, despite fierce resistance from Moscow.

The strong words from Cheney — the Bush administration's most visible hawk — signaled that the United States was intent on cultivating closer ties with Ukraine and its neighbors even after Russia showed it was willing to use military force against countries along its border.


That's it Dick, keep poking them Russians until they bite.


Meanwhile the Russians seem to be taking a more conciliatory tone, at least publicly...

Lavrov rejects Cheney's attack on Russia



www.cnn.com...


In an exclusive CNN interview, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov acknowledged the conflict may have isolated Moscow from the international community. But he said Russia would be ready to work with any U.S. administration on strategic issues like non-proliferation, counter-terrorism, and peaceful uses of nuclear energy.

"We are not interested in bad relations with the United States," Lavrov said. "It wouldn't be our choice, but if the United States does not want to cooperate with us on one or another issue, we cannot impose."

Cheney met Thursday with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili in Tbilisi and afterward criticized Russian military actions as an invasion of sovereign territory and "an illegitimate unilateral attempt" to change Georgia's borders by force.


While the Russians are not interested in bad relations, they are being demonized by the Bush administration. There is a common interest, and that is one of dominance over energy resources. It is possible that very soon we will find out just how serious this interest is.



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by RedDanDoc
Just follow the Party line ok.


Is this supposed to be your comeback? How about actually arguing with the points I made or trying to disprove them?

Calling someone a propagandist is the easiest way out of an arguement that you don't know your way around. If you don't know what is going on - then don't reply to me. But replying like you did only shows your inability to have any sort of intelligent debate.



Originally posted by RedDanDoc
And when calling people Bigoted be sure to look in the mirror beforehand that is after you have shaved those hairs off of your fat Red Neck.



Ah nice. Red Neck? What is that supposed to mean? Insults are usually the last resort of any discussion. if you can't make an intelligent post, than the best bet is not making a post at all.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by maloy

Originally posted by RedDanDoc
Just follow the Party line ok.


Is this supposed to be your comeback? How about actually arguing with the points I made or trying to disprove them?

Calling someone a propagandist is the easiest way out of an arguement that you don't know your way around. If you don't know what is going on - then don't reply to me. But replying like you did only shows your inability to have any sort of intelligent debate.



Originally posted by RedDanDoc
And when calling people Bigoted be sure to look in the mirror beforehand that is after you have shaved those hairs off of your fat Red Neck.



Ah nice. Red Neck? What is that supposed to mean? Insults are usually the last resort of any discussion. if you can't make an intelligent post, than the best bet is not making a post at all.


Well I must say this, Ive read quite a few of your posts on this board and I get the Measure of your intellect to put it straight I simply cannot be bothered to get into a debate with you.

Thats why I responded in a flippant manner to your post. You know like when a pesky bothersome fly is buzzing round the room and you swat at it.

In your mind Russia is Good and everybody else is bad. I am guessing thats what is instilled into you and that if you deviate from this line of thought something unpleasant could possibly happen to you so its not really your fault ?

Its a pity that the Russians still suffer from an Inferiority complex as they dont need to, its even apparent on these very boards when Russians start bleating on about what armaments they have got. Big wow ! Play ground mentality.




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