Palin Loves her Grandchild, Obama See His as Punishment

reply to post by intrepid


Still...

"Punished" by a baby and "burdened" by a baby are two different concepts. If it's not a slip up, the use of the term 'punished' is still somewhat revealing and at the heart of the difference between the world view of those who are pro-choice and those who are pro-life.


[edit on 2-9-2008 by loam]

reply to post by loam


you could say it was a poor choice of words. But in essence the christian fundamentalists would force women to carry out a full term pregnancy whether they wanted to or not

still nobody wants to answer my question



[edit on 2-9-2008 by yeti101]

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by intrepid

 

Still...

"Punished" by a baby and "burdened" by a baby are two different concepts. If it's not a slip up, the use of the term 'punished' is still somewhat revealing and at the heart of the difference between the world view of those who are pro-choice and those who are pro-life.

[edit on 2-9-2008 by loam]

I have to agree. Poor choice of words or not, I think it's revealing of Obama's true character.

What in the HELL does this have to do with the election? I'm sorry, but this nit pick stuff has got to stop.

The ISSUE here is that the republicans have been shouting up and down that Obama is not experienced. OK. Fine. That is an ISSUE.

THEN, the republicans pick and 20 month old governor who has a gun license and likes to fish. WOO HOO. No experience. Let's talk about that and keep some comment that was picked out of millions of comments to smear someone.

So the girl is pregnant. So what?

If we really want to get into politicians thoughts on teen pregnancy, all you have to do is look how McCain VOTED on the issue that would create LEGISLATION that would DIRECTLY impact the lives of pregnant teenagers.

The McCain campaign on Monday did not respond to repeated requests for information.

In Senate votes, McCain has opposed some proposals to pay for teen-pregnancy prevention programs. In 2006, McCain joined fellow Republicans in voting against a Senate Democratic proposal to send $100 million to communities for teen-pregnancy prevention programs that would have included sex education about contraceptives.

In 2005, McCain opposed a Senate Democratic proposal that would have spent tens of millions of dollars to pay for pregnancy prevention programs other than abstinence-only education, including education on emergency contraception such as the morning-after pill. The bill also would have required insurance companies that cover Viagra to also pay for prescription contraception.

McCain voted for the Family Support Act in 1988, which passed overwhelmingly in the Senate and required teen mothers who receive public assistance to remain in high school and, in some cases, to live with their parents.

reply to post by sos37


forcing someone to have a child they dont want is physical & mental torture in my opinion. The christian fundies dont seem to have a problem with that though

Obviously you are pro life. I have a question for you though. Lets say a 12 year old girl gets raped and ends up pregnant. Do you think that she should have to have the baby??? Personally, I wouldn't have an abortion.. EVER. But I do not speak for anyone but myself, and I think that certain situations call for certain actions.

One more question, why is everyone duking it out over politics? Shouldn't the country try to come together and make a decision that is best for all Americans and not just certain groups?? I have not decided who I am voting for because honestly, I am very uncomfortable with the fact that this election is turning Democrats and Republicans against each other to the point where I think we all lost focus on the objective at hand. I thought we were all working for a better America?!? Its not about the nominees, its about the people. ALL THE PEOPLE. Democrats, Republicans, Independents, ect. all the same.

Originally posted by intrepid

What slip up? He didn't slip up. The quote was taken out of context by the OP. In other words, not true. What Obama DID say is quite true. Educate the kids so that they aren't burdened by matters that they are incapable of handling.

Intrepid, I strongly disagree that the quote was taken out of context. Here is the relevant portion of the quote:

"...look, I've got two daughters. 9 years old and 6 years old. I am going to teach them first of all about values and morals. But if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."

Obama was directly referring to his own children. Obama's the one who brought his OWN children into the discussion.

Obama said that if THEY (his own children) made a mistake (got pregnant) he wouldn't want THEM (his own children) PUNISHED WITH A BABY.

His child's baby would be his grandchild. Obama stated that his own grandchild would be a punishment to his child.

How can you accuse me of taking the quote out of context? Please explain.

Originally posted by sos37

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by intrepid

 

Still...

"Punished" by a baby and "burdened" by a baby are two different concepts. If it's not a slip up, the use of the term 'punished' is still somewhat revealing and at the heart of the difference between the world view of those who are pro-choice and those who are pro-life.

[edit on 2-9-2008 by loam]

I have to agree. Poor choice of words or not, I think it's revealing of Obama's true character.

Really this is a dumb debate. Can we expect this kind of BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION MINUTIA to continue from Jam, Sos, Jetx etc?

Anything to muddy the waters and distract from the real issue or questions of experience?

Because I swear I have been trying to take the high road and have been biting my lip with this kind of BS, but if you guys are going to continue to sell SH&* ON A STICK and claim it is ICE CREAM, then I will take the gloves off and I promise you won't like it.

OBAMA's Response to the news report that Palan daughter was pregnant and unmarried.....simple....FAMILY IS OFF LIMITS...this from a man who has had everyone from his wife, Grandmother etc all the way to distant cousins dragged into it.

For f^&ks sake enough of this ugly crap and irrevelant BS.

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to

do you think its right to force someone to have a child they dont want?

How does one force another person to have a child? I'm not sure I understand your question.

[edit on 2-9-2008 by jamie83]

reply to post by jamie83


by making abortions illegal.

Originally posted by TruthWithin
What in the HELL does this have to do with the election?

This has a lot to do with the election if you believe that the character of the candidates matters. In 2004, the Dems were dumbfounded to find in their exit polling that a large number of voters picked their candidates at local and national levels based on character.

One candidate does not see human life as sacred if he can even entertain the thought that a baby could in any way be *punishment*.

The other sees human life as a blessing from God.

Which person do you think would weigh sending troops into harms weigh more heavily, one he sees every human as a blessing from God, or one who thinks babies are punishment for mistakes?

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by sos37

 

forcing someone to have a child they dont want is physical & mental torture in my opinion. The christian fundies dont seem to have a problem with that though

Except in cases of rape, let's put the blame where it actually belongs. Last I checked, pregnancy doesn't occur without consentual sex. If these girls don't want to be forced to have a baby then why do they forego the use of contraceptives when having sex? Where is the responsibility?

You make it sound like an irresponsible woman who suddenly ends up pregnant isn't to blame for her "condition".

[edit on 2-9-2008 by sos37]

Originally posted by jamie83
Intrepid, I strongly disagree that the quote was taken out of context. Here is the relevant portion of the quote:

"...look, I've got two daughters. 9 years old and 6 years old. I am going to teach them first of all about values and morals. But if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."

It's only relevent if you're putting words in his mouth as opposed to what he actually said.

He's talking about edcucation so that kids don't have kids, or STD's. He's NOT talking about abortion at all. That is perfectly clear if you read the "irrelevent" parts.

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by jamie83

 

by making abortions illegal.

No, making abortions illegal doesn't force anybody to have a baby. It might force them to live somewhere where abortions WERE legal, but it doesn't force them to have a baby.

And using your logic, or lack thereof, do you think it's right to force somebody to care for a new born baby?

If so, why?

Originally posted by intrepid

He's talking about edcucation so that kids don't have kids, or STD's. He's NOT talking about abortion at all. That is perfectly clear if you read the "irrelevent" parts.

It's only relevent if you're putting words in his mouth as opposed to what he actually said.

Intrepid, I'm really surprised by the weakness of this argument. Your reasoning is usually much more well founded.

Unless you think I have some supernatural powers, I did not put these words in Obama's mouth. Again, here are the words that flowed from his lips...

"...look, I've got two daughters. 9 years old and 6 years old. I am going to teach them first of all about values and morals. But if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."

How can you say I put these words in his mouth?

reply to post by sos37


blame thats a good word. I'd put the blame on people like mccaine who block funding for safe sex education. Or the religous people who say using contraceptive is a sin.

and using a word like blame implies there should be punishment. Is the punishment the baby? you sound like you agree with obama

Originally posted by KaginD
Obviously you are pro life. I have a question for you though. Lets say a 12 year old girl gets raped and ends up pregnant. Do you think that she should have to have the baby???

Abortion for rape was already allowed in 16 states before Roe v. Wade and I doubt that the reversal of this ruling would change this view in any of the 50 states. Most conservatives just have an issue with abortion being used as a means of contraception. No one is going to force a 12 year old to carry a baby from a rape. I think that view is as extreme as viewing liberals as people who BBQ babies on the weekend.

reply to post by jamie83

No, making abortions illegal doesn't force anybody to have a baby. It might force them to live somewhere where abortions WERE legal, but it doesn't force them to have a baby.

not evryone can afford to travel abroad for an abortion. Also your saying its ok that abortions are carried out in other countries just not your own?

** just on sky news poeple at the GOP convention are saying it shows "palin is normal and has problems too" so the repubs think babies are problems not punishment LOL you couldnt make it up


[edit on 2-9-2008 by yeti101]

Originally posted by maybereal11
Really this is a dumb debate. Can we expect this kind of BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION MINUTIA to continue from Jam, Sos, Jetx etc?

Anything to muddy the waters and distract from the real issue or questions of experience?

For f^&ks sake enough of this ugly crap and irrevelant BS.

This is not a dumb debate at all. We're talking about electing somebody to the office of POTUS. Moral character to many people is more important than being able to hire a staff of paralegals to draft position papers on topics and post them on a web site. Moral character is also more important to many people than the ability to deliver a well-rehearsed speech.

I'm sorry, but I must have missed you jumping into threads about how great Obama's speeches were, telling people, "You know, you're really blowing this speech thing out of proportion... "

And this is a REAL issue. It goes to the core of who the candidate is, and what they value. Gov. Palin obviously values human life as a sacred and supernatural gift from God. I won't put words in Obama's mouth, but from my point of view it would be hard to believe life is sacred if you think of having a baby as punishment.

So yes, this is a relevant and important issue.

Originally posted by jamie83

Originally posted by intrepid

He's talking about edcucation so that kids don't have kids, or STD's. He's NOT talking about abortion at all. That is perfectly clear if you read the "irrelevent" parts.

It's only relevent if you're putting words in his mouth as opposed to what he actually said.

Intrepid, I'm really surprised by the weakness of this argument. Your reasoning is usually much more well founded.

Unless you think I have some supernatural powers, I did not put these words in Obama's mouth. Again, here are the words that flowed from his lips...

"...look, I've got two daughters. 9 years old and 6 years old. I am going to teach them first of all about values and morals. But if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."

How can you say I put these words in his mouth?

I'm leaving the quoted part in as it's relevent. You left out the part of my post that explains it.

Originally posted by intrepid

He's talking about edcucation so that kids don't have kids, or STD's. He's NOT talking about abortion at all. That is perfectly clear if you read the "irrelevent" parts.

Or did you deem that 'irrelevent"?