Palin Loves her Grandchild, Obama See His as Punishment, page 10
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reply posted on 3-9-2008 @ 05:33 PM by raven bombshell
Originally posted by ShAuNmAn-X
reply to post by yeti101

If they didn't want the kid they should have kept their damn legs closed in the first place IMO.


[sarcasm]Aaaaa yes, those women and girls who are raped and couldnt get the morning after pill or were too scared to go to the hospital should have kept their legs shut. [/sarcasm]

Lets even put rape aside and discuss consensual sex. The 30 year old responsible woman who relies upon that pill or condom should just never have sex? Niiiice. Really logical and realistic, too. A pregnancy lasts 10 months typically, and it takes you from work. It creates emotional and physical strain upon a woman. Some preganancies are unhealthy. It creates financial issues even if she doesnt keep the baby. People dont think of these things. To say "dont have sex" when people are created with hormones and desires for this reason is just stupid.

I got pregnant using contraception- 2 kinds. I was able to keep my child and raise her but it is tough. I cried myself to sleep every night during the pregnancy. Her father has no part in raising her- couldnt be bothered. It happens a lot to good people. I was not persmiscuous and i was not a teen. I had a career and I was a responsible 26 year old. And I would never go through a pregnancy and childbirth again. It doesnt make me a bad person. I would not want anyone else to deal with the stuff i have had to deal with. I love my child more than anything/anyone else in the world.

On a side note: If men would stop raping and start taking care of thier kids this would not be such a hot issue, imo. I am especially offended when men get self righteous about abortion.


reply posted on 3-9-2008 @ 06:18 PM by Level X
reply to post by jamie83


Jamie83,

You have it all wrong.

If a young girl gets KNOCKED-UP... over a senceless TWO NIGHT STAND... and does not have money to by milk and pampers... because she was fantasizing about... "What Paris Hilton felt like the night of her sex tape?"... then.. is stupid enough to think she can play... play house, with her own living Barbie doll... then, demands or expects the grandparent.., 9 out of 10 times the State or (her dumbfounded mother) to raise, feed, house and teach her and the fatherless addition to the home... common sence... while the clueless teenaged girl figures out... after the fact.... how hard it will be to maintain... the "daddies lil' princess status" she once had... because the original sperm doner & her (VV) or virginal value... is long gone... and now no decent single young man... or future husband... in his right freaking mind... really want's to fund... or look into the crying-slobering-face... of a ready made family... comprised of another mans DNA... unless the teenaged girl... grows up... to look like Pamela Anderson, Heidi Klum, or any other stunning bombshell... to make the punishment worthwhile



[edit on 3-9-2008 by Level X]


reply posted on 3-9-2008 @ 08:26 PM by Valhall
Originally posted by Level X
reply to post by jamie83


Jamie83,

You have it all wrong.

If a young girl gets KNOCKED-UP... over a senceless TWO NIGHT STAND... and does not have money to by milk and pampers... because she was fanasizing about... "What Paris Hilton felt like the night of her sex tape?"... then.. is stupid enough to think she can play... play house, with her own living Barbie doll... then, demands or expects the grandparent.., 9 out of 10 times the State or (her dumbfounded mother) to raise, feed, house and teach her and the fatherless addition to the home... common sence... while the clueless teenaged girl figures out... after the fact.... how hard it will be to maintain... the "daddies lil' princess status" she once had... because the original sperm doner & her (VV) or virginal value... is long gone... and now no decent single young man... or future husband... in his right freaking mind... really want's to fund... or look into the crying-slobering-face... of a ready made family... comprised of another mans DNA... unless the teenaged girl... grows up... to look like Pamela Anderson, Heidi Klum, or any other stunning bombshell... to make the punishment worthwhile


[edit on 3-9-2008 by Level X]


What species are you?

serious



reply posted on 3-9-2008 @ 09:17 PM by loam
reply to ALL OF Valhall's POSTS




(The link is to all of Valhall's posts in this thread.... Dead on. )

I couldn't disagree with a single syllable.



I wish more people had that kind of sense and outrage.

Nailed it!


[edit on 3-9-2008 by loam]


reply posted on 3-9-2008 @ 11:13 PM by DINSTAAR
reply to post by yeti101



i think forcing someone to have a kid when they dont want to is punishing them.


Unjustified killing is wrong. How does the babies existence justify execution if the existence is merely hindrance on others and a direct consequence of the actions taken by those that would be effected?


reply posted on 4-9-2008 @ 09:26 AM by Sheeple
reply to post by blayze


So it's only a baby once you can dress it up in cute outfits?

If you want to argue awareness, what exactly is that? Is a newborn aware? Do you have memories of being a newborn? Is memory a requirement for awareness? Most people don't remember anything before being 2-4 years old (though some rare people claim to). Does that make a 2-year-old "just a bunch of cells"? Or does the fact that a two-year-old have a face you can easily see and look at make it more alive than the fetus? Is it because they are cute?

How would you judge awareness? Infants in the womb demonstrate awareness of their small worlds by moving, playing and responding to various stimuli like music. By the fourth week of development, that “bunch of cells” has a regular heartbeat.

I don't personally believe that abortion should have a blanket decision that covers all people at all times. I consider myself pro-choice to a degree, meaning that I think there will always be exceptions to rules, and that any laws governing this should provide for those exceptions. I understand rape, incest and medical complications make abortion something we will pretty much never get rid of, and if it's 100% illegal, it will still be done, just without any regulation or safety measures. This will harm women who decide to go for "back alley abortions", and it will create a black market for the procedure.

I don't think people should treat abortion like getting a wart or mole removed.

It's not a frivolous action - and many people who made this decision have regretted it later, and they mourn the baby that at the time they rationalized as being "just a bunch of cells". "Roe" of Roe vs. Wade herself regrets her abortion, and is now a Pro-Life supporter.

Our society is getting very bad about not taking responsibility for personal actions – I understand there are people who took every possible precaution while engaging in intercourse, but still got pregnant. I do not look down on these people, I do not think they are dumb or promiscuous, but as I posted earlier, babies are a possible outcome of heterosexual intercourse. If you look at the effectiveness of contraceptive devices, none of them promise 100% effectiveness. Even 1% is still a chance the woman will get pregnant.

I’d venture that most births in the world are the result of pregnancies that were not explicitly planned. I’m not saying all births are to minors, or the result of contraceptive failure. I’m saying that very few people have children exactly when they choose, or when it’s convenient.

To me, calling a human embryo or fetus “just a bunch of cells” is simply a way to de-personalize it make it less alive, to make it easier to decide it’s not worth saving or protecting. It’s kinda like the rationalization of some “vegetarians” who eat fish “because it’s not really meat, and fish don’t feel pain, anyway.”

I don't claim to know when life or awareness starts. I'm just tired of people treating abortion like it's nothing. It's a big decision that both parents should have to make, and if the father abdicates this responsibility, then the mother has to make it.

Hmmmm.... it's kinda interesting that the terms "mother" and "father" would be used by most people at any stage of pregnancy if it's "just a bunch of cells", seeing as they imply there is a child to be the mother and father of. You don't see people going on Maury Povich asking who the "genetic materials donor" was. If a woman is pregnant and unmarried, the first question most people will ask is, "who's the father?"

[edit on 4-9-2008 by Sheeple]

[edit on 4-9-2008 by Sheeple]


reply posted on 4-9-2008 @ 12:26 PM by Level X
Originally posted by Valhall
Originally posted by Level X
reply to post by jamie83

What species are you?

serious


A species that is tired of hearing stupid teenaged girls and their male bashing mothers whine about their decision to KEEP THE BABY and BLAME the boy father as deadbeat daddy. It's an epidemic!

"Girl, I was thinking... a pink baby would look soooo cute with my pink Hanna Montana outfit!... I'm gonna have James seek into my room tonight to go all the way with out condoms..."


Why ruin a 15 year old males life because you and your mommy what a diaper wearing conversation piece. If you and your mommy want to keep the bastard child, and the teenaged father DOES NOT... then don't hold him accountable for the childs upbringing, because it's a "your choice" baby.

Either force your daughter to marry the sperm doner or throw the unwitting sperm doner out with the bathwater... and hope another father figure sperm doner will step in with all the money and support to rescue your foolish daughter from the mistake she made with the first sperm doner so she will be legitified as a family in the eyes of America's Ultra Republican fake Christian values. It's always a womans choice


reply posted on 5-9-2008 @ 01:35 PM by Niki
Since this thread has drifted I'm going to throw in some thoughts.

And they are primarily directed at Mr. Mopus Vindictus since he chose, through 27 posts to turn this into his own personal soapboax, he is therefor asking for a rebuttal.

Prepare yourself Daddy - Niki only comes on here when REALLY fired up and she's about to hang you with your own words...... Ahhhh this is gonna be fun!

Lets start with your first post: you said
Like many Americans he (Obama) views having a child as a "hold back" for women.


And then in post #27 you say:
...
I work on the internet, from home... On computer all the time , if I feel like slacking I can just sit here all day if I choose.


Now RIGHT HERE is how you just PROVED children DO INDEED hold back women - because who's taking care of YOUR KIDS? YOU? Or your wife? Seems to me you're doing as you please and the HARD works being shoved off on her. I also noticed through your various posts you mention PLAYING with the children - so sure - its fun FOR YOU.

Moving right along....

Back to post 1. You said:
it's Feminism that was hijacked away from actual women, by men, lesbians, the media, the UN, and Big Govt.


Orly? You're quite the neocon parrot there Daddy. Because I'll wager dollars to donuts that you don't know ANY lesbians. You work out of your home. How many PEOPLE do you know, period?

Another one from post #!
it is NOT a satisfying life for most women to remain barren.
Is that so? You KNOW most women? Out in the boonies there, shut up in your house? Huh.

From post #2
Obama was never involved in his kids lives. Hillary was never involved in her kids lives. Palin is the only one...we have ever gotten who actually is a FAMILY oriented leader...
Wow! How do you KNOW this? Do you mingle with these people? I suspect you do not because Hillary only has ONE child, Chelsea, not plural "KIDS". Whoops.

Lets see what we can find in post #4, which is The Story Of Your Life.....

To say that women shouldn't have children young (the same crowd that worries about their health) is dooming them to complications, troubled offspring from a life of accumulated toxins.
Is that so, Professor? And you know this from - what? ONE anecdotal example. Sorry. Try again. Millions of women for millenia have had children when older - and holy crap! Most of their lineage is still around! If it were the gloom and doom you think - we'd be up to necks in handicapped people.

Well it looks like you go on in this post to bemoan that your parents, having had you when older and are now dead - cannot help you, you are all alone. Guess what Daddy- lots of people have LIVING parents and they are all alone. My father prefers to give his $ and time to bartenders - so can your whining. If they were alive - who's to say they wouldn't run off with the Scientologists or blow all the finances you covet at a casino? You're looking backward with rose colored glasses. And equating "living grandparents" with Automatic Good. I know plenty of old people who are NO GOOD AT ALL. Negates that easily.

Now we will compare your post #5 to post #13

In #5 you say:
And...if you had kids you would find that the maturity comes hard and fast.


In #13 you say:
Being a parent is not the chore social scientists make it out to be.


Well - which is it? Hard reality check or no chore at all? No chore for YOU because you spent all this time on the net writing this blather while your WIFE watched the kids, eh?
YOU are WHY women want OUT of this situation. They do all the work, you sit on your ass - as you stated in #27
if I feel like slacking I can just sit here all day if I choose.

I take it your wife has NO CHOICE then - but to mind the kids and do the drudge work.

#6
Its a social judgement is the real issue. Should I support teaching classes that continues to place social pressure on women to not have kids when every single thing indicates that is NOT where happiness lies.....


Excuse me. Again - you are relying on YOUR experiences and what you have heard in your own choice of media. You don't know many women - you can't. And let me tell you - I personally CHOSE education over all else. And my reasons may surprise you.

First, let me haul up some of your "party" statements-
From #24 -
School is by and large a party time


Excuse me again but I have undergrad degrees in mechanical engineering, environmental science, and a Master's in applied mathematics. Sorry. No partying. Lotsa HARD WORK. And look around you Daddy - ANYTHING you might touch - from your keyboard to a can of Pepsi has had MY hands on it. I likely designed it. School wasn't a party and neither was work. I was serious about what I did - and VAST NUMBERS of people benefitted from and I WILL NOT tolerate the likes of your kind telling me I'd be better off having kids. FREEDOM OF CHOICE. RIGHT TO THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS....... Do these MEAN ANYTHING to you? Or would you prefer us all to be barefoot and pregnant?

Now I personally would make a LOUSY mother. But I make a HELLUVA scientist, engineer, and designer. So should I go with my talents or follow the herd? Or follow YOUR romantic notions of motherhood?

Which brings up another post of yours - #12

What I am seeing is alot of young girls getting pregnant on purpose in a reaction. and I think that reaction is to seeing how unfulfilled their career moms lifes really are and the lack of love and attention that comes from having career parents... so the seek to have love
Uh - did it ever occur to you that these girls were doing this as a result of all the REPUBLICAN PROPAGANDA that's currently floated to BREED BREED BREED? And most of the Baby Boomers who are the parents of todays young kids DID quit their jobs and stayed home with the kids. You *believe* its lack of attention from *your perception* - do you know all these people? And their motives? There certainly COULD BE another reason for teenage pregnancy besides YOUR reasons. Ever run your eyes over magazine covers at the supermarket? Its all Celebrity Breeding. Maybe THIS is where these kids are getting the idea. You are making assumptions based on YOUR ideas. Which is fine for you - but please do not PREACH to people.

To be continued....


reply posted on 5-9-2008 @ 03:08 PM by Niki
Continuing on..... (because there is so much wrongness here......)

OK. Back to disecting NEOCON Mopus Vindictus' TWENTY SEVEN POSTS

on this topic.......

Lets revisit Mopy's #4 post -

I can not imagine if I had waited unitil now to have a child and I was 47 instead of 37 when he was young, to NOT be able to run and play and jump quite as easy with him, to not have him grow up with mom while she was still beautiful....


To not have him grow up with mom while she was 'still beautiful'.

You suffer from Mommy Lust friend, in a BIG WAY. You have romanticized motherhood. And at the same time, your'e dissing women who AREN'T beautiful.
What - an older or uglier (even as young) woman - is of no use to you?

You have NO IDEA how MISOGYINISTIC you really are. All stemming from your Mommy Lust.

The ONLY thing you said about your wife is that she popped them out like a "cat in the closet". What about your wife as a PERSON? Do you even KNOW HER? Or is she just the pretty poop and snot wiper while YOU sit on the computer and occasionally interact with your kids?

You said right there in your post #9 -
I sucked as a Husband. badly at times too, nothing was perfect, I screwed up and ......Became a man I'm proud of in the process.


Yeah? While your wife was doing all the GRUNT WORK. And now that they're older and you can take YOUR SON - who you seem so proud of and the daughter is an afterthought - now that all the s*it work is over - you can take YOUR SON out to play and it seems that that's basically ALL you do besides sit on the computer.

And you PREACH at people to have kids younger? Are you KIDDING me? And you dis women who WANT their own lives and preach - 'they aren't really happy"?

YOU are the PRIME CAUSE of abortions. I want you to realize that. You are lazy, preachy, holier then thou now that your trapped - and you are preaching to women not men. Ergo - its all about YOUR insecurity, You're efforts to bolster your own lifestyle and talk people into it, you want everyone else in the same boat as you. You think YOU are right out of your desperation and insecurity and yet you FAIL to notice that people are individuals and live MANY DIFFERENT KINDS OF LIVES.

And I will thank you for NOT DISSING CHI TOWN! You also said this- in your post #26-

Alaska needs men lol, Chicago needs prisons for extra babies...


That's nice. So what you are saying is - you only like CERTAIN babies. If they are born in Chi they belong in prison? And everybody knows Chi is 40% black so what you are basically eluding to is RACISM. In fact - you did mention "European Bloodlines" elsewhere.

You know what? I am a WHITE female - and I will stand shoulder to shoulder with a black person before I EVER give in to your racist and sexist ideas! I am FROM CHICAGO! I AM BLACK! HOW DARE YOU DISCOUNT OUR PEOPLE OVER YOURS!
I'd rather see ONE MILLION nice and open minded black families then ONE racist white one!

You give yourself away, big time, in everything you wrote. I shall come back and pick you apart more - there are NO WORRIES that that won't happen. How DARE YOU DIS CHI TOWN and the children here of - one of THE GREATEST cities on the planet!

Psssst - there ISN'T enough fresh water on earth for increasing population. There might be vast stretches of land - but there is a REASON WHY people don't live there. No fresh water. Which is why you WATER DEPLETED people are eyeing the Great Lakes here. Sorry. Its OUR water and we control our population. And - we control our eating and exports - its not OUR fault you greedy pigs used up your underground aquifers. Google it. Prove me wrong.

You want to put OUR BABIES in prison - yet you want OUR WATER? EFF YOU "COWBOY"!

There's another tip for you - you opine that women want "cowboys". Well I sure DON'T! I live in a sophisticated urban area and REDNECKS don't really fit in here. I want someone EDUCATED who considers ALL points of view.

You don't TELL women what to do, which is ALL you have done, and you sure as sh*te don't dis Chi Town. You wouldn't last here one MINUTE. You come here and do the GRUNT WORK of a ghetto woman held down by the likes of you - you come here and LIVE IT - and THEN you get back to me.

And I am a white educated woman. Who fought my OWN WAY up from poverty - my relatives are from CR and barely spoke English and were exploited by YOUR "System". I will stand shoulder to shoulder with these black sisters and brothers - you don't dis what you don't KNOW. I can't exactly know them either, but I worked along side them, in MONDO CRAPPY JOBS, as well as alot of other females (and males) who got sh*t on, screwed over, exploited by big biz - so YES I WILL STAND UP for these people.

You have NO IDEA.

So STOP PREACHING.

I have vast education and I live in a 4 room flat. It sells for 350K. An apartment.
I got no job because you REPUBLICRATS sent my job to MX and then China and "The Sciences" are not for women anyway. You have NO IDEA how hard I had to fight for the jobs I did have. Because Fascist like YOU see women as Breeding Cows.

YOU- MOPUS VINDICTUS are EXACTLY the sort of men who make women run screaming!

You play on the net, you got it easy - you SAID SO yourself - ergo - your WIFE is doing all the GRUNT WORK with the kids. Is it ANY WONDER women like me - SMART WOMEN- don't want to breed with the likes of YOU? It has NOTHING to do with society - it has to do with YOU MEN who don't do a g*ddamned thing for your family but PREACH about how great it is and how WOMEN need to be brought in line. Yeah. Right.

I'll continue my Phd work, thanks.

PS - YOU DIS CHI AGAIN AND I WILL REALLY RIP YOU! COMPRENDE?
Our babies DO NOT belong in prison! People like US and the businesses here FUND you rednecks living out in the boonies - just remember that. DO NOT bite the hand that feeds you.
Especially now that you are wanting our water. Because you wasted yours out west on the fountains of Las Vegas and LA. And - all the Big Biz waste of it selling DEAD COW PARTS to fat Americans. Lotta water wasted out there via animal slaughterhouses. You allowed it , as well as based all your sprogging of kids on it - these various animal and agri industries that largely sold overseas - so don't come crying to us.












[edit on 5-9-2008 by Niki]

[edit on 5-9-2008 by Niki]


reply posted on 15-10-2008 @ 11:29 AM by berkie
reply to post by dbates


yes, you are obviously confused. Why don't you re-read the ENTIRE quote, not just the part you took out of context. Tell me where you see the word "abortion" anywhere in the quote. Obama was trying to make a point about why sex education is important in preventing unwanted pregnancies and STD's, (by using birth control or condoms, for instance, which is something one would likely learn through sex education (apparently you were home schooled, by someone who doesn't see the value in this knowledge.)) Granted, poor choice of words on Obama's part, however, its ludicrious to suggest that this one ill-conceived phrase is some kind of treatise on how much Obama "values human life". Get a clue, will you?
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