New ex-Christian who is lost in his own freedom and uncertainty.

For God sake you too, this thread is over. Perhaps this should be in U2Us.

Originally posted by JPhish

I would have listed them here but I did not have enough room to so I gave you a link.

you miss my point . .i don’t wish for you to share your material off other websites AT ALL. I wouldn’t want you to repost excerpts from articles here, any more than I would want to see links to those websites you might draw them from. I want you to use your own logic and reasoning skills. Not someone else’s with which whom you happen to think you agree with at the moment.

Excuse me?
YOU are the one who asked for the contradictions in the Bible.
I gave you a link which contained contradictions.
I also told you that you could simply type 'biblical contradictions' in Google to get your fill.
But no, you don't want the evidence. You just want to be right.

Well I believe no one knows apologetics on this site better than AshleyD. Shall I fetch her for us?

I've debated with her before.
It's actually much more 'fruitfull' if you could say that. Even though none of us change our mind, it's at least interesting.
I don't like debating people who ask for evidence and then once I give them evidence dodge the initial point.
AshleyD doesn't do this.
However, I doubt she would want to debate against me.
She's said that it's pointless and I'd have to agree with her on that.


But as for debating against you, sorry.
When I present FACTS to you, you do not believe it, so how could I expect you to accept logic.

Think about it.

[edit on 2-10-2008 by TruthParadox]

Originally posted by TruthParadox
Excuse me?
YOU are the one who asked for the contradictions in the Bible.

no i didn't.

You claimed that G*d contradicts "himself". i asked for proof. You have failed to provide this proof.

I gave you a link which contained contradictions.

Contradictions in the bible??? If I believe that Krishna is the one and only true G*d, those links, even if valid (which they weren’t) mean absolutely nothing.

I also told you that you could simply type 'biblical contradictions' in Google to get your fill.

i've done so; most of these sites arguments are quite weak; and again, inconsequential.

again . . . You claimed that G*d contradicts "himself". i asked for proof. You have failed to provide this proof.

But no, you don't want the evidence.

It is not just the evidence i want. I want terms to be defined, the objecthood of metaphysical beings and conditions to be addressed, and a bit of humility on your part.

You just want to be right.

right about what??? you don't even know what you're arguing about . . .

I've debated with her before.
It's actually much more 'fruitfull' if you could say that. Even though none of us change our mind, it's at least interesting.

Don’t bash me just because she is nice enough to abide by your insularity.

I don't like debating people who ask for evidence and then once I give them evidence dodge the initial point.

You gave alleged “evidence” for the wrong thing.

You claimed that G*d contradicts "himself". i asked for proof. You have failed to provide this proof.

Not to mention, ironically, you'd have to prove that G*d exists to prove the later point to begin with! You never even rounded first base . . .

AshleyD doesn't do this. However, I doubt she would want to debate against me.
She's said that it's pointless and I'd have to agree with her on that.

AshleyD is a kinder person than I; i’m a bit more blunt.

But as for debating against you, sorry.
When I present FACTS to you, you do not believe it, so how could I expect you to accept logic.

If you’ve ever touched a truth, it was probably by accident. You’ve been denying logic this entire time.

Think about it.

Not before you throw your superciliousness out the proverbial window.

[edit on 10/3/2008 by JPhish]

Originally posted by JPhish

Originally posted by TruthParadox
Excuse me?
YOU are the one who asked for the contradictions in the Bible.

no i didn't.

Yes you did, and I'll prove it:

Originally posted by JPhish

5) Hundreds, if not thousands, of contradictions in the Bible which can not be explained.

considering only 1 out of your first 4 proposed “contradictions” are even capable of being contradictions; I’m going to assume you’re off your mark with that calculation. But please, give me a small number, or any number, that you can provide evidence for.

You said "give me a small number, or any number, that you can provide evidence for."
To which I replied with a link of the contradictions in the text of the Bible, which is what was in question.
If you did not wish to address the point about contradictions in the Bible, then why did you argue against it?

Originally posted by JPhish

I gave you a link which contained contradictions.

Contradictions in the bible??? If I believe that Krishna is the one and only true G*d, those links, even if valid (which they weren’t) mean absolutely nothing.

What are you talking about?
We are discussing God with a capital G.
We are discussing the God in the Bible.
There's a reason I'm typing God and not god.
You seem to like arguing just for the sake of arguing.
This apparently warrents you to ignore any and all points I bring up that are based on fact, and instead say
"well, what if I don't believe in that God?"
"well, what if by omnipotent, they really meant 'not omnipotent'"
"well, what if by perfect, they meant faulty?"

I can't win against antilogic.

I am discussing the God of the Bible.
If you are not discussing this God, then you have no purpose in arguing against me.

Simple, isn't it?

Originally posted by JPhish

I also told you that you could simply type 'biblical contradictions' in Google to get your fill.

i've done so; most of these sites arguments are quite weak; and again, inconsequential.

How are they weak?
They are in the text itself...
There are a certain number of contradictions which CAN be explained by translation errors, however if you did read the link I presented, you would know that quite a few can not be attributed to this.

Originally posted by JPhish
again . . . You claimed that G*d contradicts "himself". i asked for proof. You have failed to provide this proof.

Really?
Because earlier you said this:

Originally posted by JPhish

8) Contradiction of a perfect omnipotent God having a struggle with one of his creations (Satan).

If this is literally true, then this is a contradiction. But when did this happen??? Again, who said that G*d is perfect or omnipotent?

Then I provided PROOF IN THE TEXT OF THE BIBLE that God IS perfect AND omnipotent, to which you replied:

Originally posted by JPhish
Great, so in the bible it alludes that G*d may be omnipotent. I know basketball clips from the 90’s where the sports announcers claim that Jordan is too.

Need I say more?

Originally posted by JPhish

But no, you don't want the evidence.

It is not just the evidence i want. I want terms to be defined, the objecthood of metaphysical beings and conditions to be addressed, and a bit of humility on your part.

Why does this matter?
You seem to think that by me saying that God contradicts himself that it's proof that he does not exist.
There is no proof that he does not exist.
I do find it extremely unlikely that an omnipotent, all knowing, perfect God would contradict himself.
Of course it's 'possible', because he's omnipotent and can contradict himself if he wants.
In that respect, a human could know nothing.
However, my arguments are specificly for those that try to use logic to support God.
You can always claim that God is above logic and thus logic is irrelevant, but it doesn't matter because it's what he gave us, right?
So then we should use this logic.

Originally posted by JPhish

You just want to be right.

right about what??? you don't even know what you're arguing about . . .

How so?

Originally posted by JPhish

I've debated with her before.
It's actually much more 'fruitfull' if you could say that. Even though none of us change our mind, it's at least interesting.

Don’t bash me just because she is nice enough to abide by your insularity.

But you're the one that asked for evidence that the Bible says God is omnipotent and perfect.
I provided evidence.
You ignored it.
This is why it's so annoying to argue against you.
It's nothing personal.

Originally posted by JPhish

I don't like debating people who ask for evidence and then once I give them evidence dodge the initial point.

You gave alleged “evidence” for the wrong thing.

You asked for evidence of God being omnipotent and perfect in the Bible.
I gave you evidence.

Originally posted by JPhish
Not to mention, ironically, you'd have to prove that G*d exists to prove the later point to begin with! You never even rounded first base . . .

That's not true at all.
Based on human logic, God is contradictory.
This does not mean he does not exist.
I do find it extremely unlikely that he does.

Originally posted by JPhish

But as for debating against you, sorry.
When I present FACTS to you, you do not believe it, so how could I expect you to accept logic.

If you’ve ever touched a truth, it was probably by accident. You’ve been denying logic this entire time.

How so?
It's funny, I back my claims with quotes that you have made.

Originally posted by JPhish

Think about it.

Not before you throw your superciliousness out the proverbial window.

I'm not arrogant.
If I've come across as arrogant, then I'm sorry.
I simply find it extremely painful to 'debate' with someone who does not read the words I'm typing.

Originally posted by TruthParadox
Excuse me?
YOU are the one who asked for the contradictions in the Bible.

You randomly stated that you had bible contradictions. I asked for proof. It was not the point of our discussion. You had made a claim previously which you had unwittingly been dancing around this entire time.

You said "give me a small number, or any number, that you can provide evidence for."
To which I replied with a link of the contradictions in the text of the Bible, which is what was in question.

You did not give me a number; you gave me a link . . .

If you did not wish to address the point about contradictions in the Bible, then why did you argue against it?

because ungrounded claims should always be questioned, regardless of relevance.

What are you talking about?
We are discussing God with a capital G.

There are other people, with other religions that refer to their deity with the same name when writing and speaking in english.

We are discussing the God in the Bible.

You never said that. All you said was that G*d contradicts “himself”.

There's a reason I'm typing God and not god.

There are other people, with other religions that refer to their deity with the same name when writing and speaking in english. This is why defining your terms is necessary!

You seem to like arguing just for the sake of arguing.

Incorrect; I’m hoping that people will post with more consideration

This apparently warrents you to ignore any and all points I bring up that are based on fact, and instead say

"well, what if I don't believe in that God?"
"well, what if by omnipotent, they really meant 'not omnipotent'"
"well, what if by perfect, they meant faulty?"

You’re missing the point of my scrutiny of your statements.

I can't win against antilogic.

Yeah, you should stop using it.

I am discussing the God of the Bible.

Well thank you for finally defining one of your terms! Something I’ve been asking for you to do for a page now . . .

If you are not discussing this God, then you have no purpose in arguing against me. .

Like I’ve said, I’m not arguing with you.

Simple, isn't it?

Yes, I’m glad my last post made YOU realize this! I wasn’t going to spell it out for you.

Originally posted by TruthParadox
I also told you that you could simply type 'biblical contradictions' in Google to get your fill.

Originally posted by JPhish
i've done so; most of these sites arguments are quite weak; and again, inconsequential.

How are they weak?
They are in the text itself...
There are a certain number of contradictions which CAN be explained by translation errors, however if you did read the link I presented, you would know that quite a few can not be attributed to this.

you half way answered your own question already. How many are “quite a few”? can you give me AN (ONE) example of a contradiction that cannot be attributed to translation error?

Originally posted by TruthParadox
8) Contradiction of a perfect omnipotent God having a struggle with one of his creations (Satan).

Originally posted by JPhish
If this is literally true, then this is a contradiction. But when did this happen??? Again, who said that G*d is perfect or omnipotent?

Originally posted by TruthParadox
Then I provided PROOF IN THE TEXT OF THE BIBLE that God IS perfect AND omnipotent, to which you replied:

Originally posted by JPhish
Great, so in the bible it alludes that G*d may be omnipotent. I know basketball clips from the 90’s where the sports announcers claim that Jordan is too.

Originally posted by TruthParadox
Need I say more?

more? You’re claiming that just because someone says something it is true . . .

Originally posted by JPhish
It is not just the evidence i want. I want terms to be defined, the objecthood of metaphysical beings and conditions to be addressed, and a bit of humility on your part.

Originally posted by TruthParadox
Why does this matter?

It matters because only now are you defining terms that would have avoided pointless arguments on your part.

You seem to think that by me saying that God contradicts himself that it's proof that he does not exist.

no, I don’t. Because I still don’t understand how you could know this.

There is no proof that he does not exist.

Welcome to the tract I’ve emphasizing.

I do find it extremely unlikely that an omnipotent, all knowing, perfect God would contradict himself.

So do i.

Of course it's 'possible', because he's omnipotent and can contradict himself if he wants.

Now we’re talkin’

In that respect, a human could know nothing.

Yay!

However, my arguments are specificly for those that try to use logic to support God.
You can always claim that God is above logic and thus logic is irrelevant,

I’ve been using logic this whole time. You’re the one who claimed to be able to prove that an entity (that you cannot prove or disprove the existence of) contradicts “him self”.

but it doesn't matter because it's what he gave us, right?

I have no idea.

So then we should use this logic.

We should use what logic exactly?

Originally posted by TruthParadox
You just want to be right.

Originally posted by JPhish
right about what??? you don't even know what you're arguing about . . .

Originally posted by TruthParadox
How so?

I didn’t even know what you were “attempting” to argue about until you began to define your terms in your last post. Therefore any rebuttal I may have gave to any of your statements was actually not relevant to the point at hand because you failed to elucidate your initial statement to begin with.

But you're the one that asked for evidence that the Bible says God is omnipotent and perfect.
I provided evidence.
You ignored it.
This is why it's so annoying to argue against you.
It's nothing personal.

I’m not ignoring it; it’s simply inconsequential. If we’re discussing how oranges are orange. And somewhere in our debate you say that apples are purple; I’m going to challenge that! If you end up proving that apples are purple. It still doesn’t add any weight to the fact that oranges are or are not orange.

You asked for evidence of God being omnipotent and perfect in the Bible.
I gave you evidence.

You gave evidence for apples being purple when we’re discussing oranges. then again, we could have been discussing bananas . . .

That's not true at all.
Based on human logic, God is contradictory.

Many would disagree

This does not mean he does not exist.
I do find it extremely unlikely that he does.

Sounds logical and fair to me.

Originally posted by JPhish
If you’ve ever touched a truth, it was probably by accident. You’ve been denying logic this entire time.

Originally posted by TruthParadox
How so?
It's funny, I back my claims with quotes that you have made.

As you’ve displayed, “the ability to cite, source, and quote material, does not entail comprehension of it.”

I'm not arrogant.
If I've come across as arrogant, then I'm sorry.

I’m sorry, but you kind of come across that way when you claim to know what a deity (that may or may not exist in the first place) does, doesn’t, did, didn’t, would, wouldn’t, will, or won’t do.

[edit on 10/9/2008 by JPhish]

Originally posted by TruthParadox
I simply find it extremely painful to 'debate' with someone who does not read the words I'm typing.

I asked you to define your terms several times so that things would be clear. I can read “words” all I like, but if they do not share a mutual meaning between us, we have no common ground to stand upon. Which is why I asked for

Originally posted by JPhish
terms to be defined, the objecthood of metaphysical beings and conditions to be addressed.

[edit on 10/9/2008 by JPhish]

Originally posted by JPhish
You randomly stated that you had bible contradictions. I asked for proof. It was not the point of our discussion. You had made a claim previously which you had unwittingly been dancing around this entire time.

But it WAS one of the points in our discussion.
You replied to my post in which that was one of the points I made.

Originally posted by JPhish
You did not give me a number; you gave me a link . . .

You said "that you can provide evidence for".
I gave you evidence.
And if you do not believe that to be evidence then you can look in any Bible and verify it to be correct.

Originally posted by JPhish

What are you talking about?
We are discussing God with a capital G.

There are other people, with other religions that refer to their deity with the same name when writing and speaking in english.

But which God am I talking about?
If you had even read any of my posts you would know I am referring to the God of The Bible.
sigh...

Originally posted by JPhish

We are discussing the God in the Bible.

You never said that. All you said was that G*d contradicts “himself”.

One of the points I made was REFERRING to the Bible.
Not to mention the WHOLE THREAD is ABOUT THIS GOD.
Read the freakin' title. It clearly says 'Christian'

Originally posted by JPhish

This apparently warrents you to ignore any and all points I bring up that are based on fact, and instead say

"well, what if I don't believe in that God?"
"well, what if by omnipotent, they really meant 'not omnipotent'"
"well, what if by perfect, they meant faulty?"

You’re missing the point of my scrutiny of your statements.

But they are based on FACTS which you chose to ignore.

Originally posted by JPhish

I can't win against antilogic.

Yeah, you should stop using it.

Nice kindergarten comeback.
Now I know better what kind of a chap I'm dealing with.

Originally posted by JPhish

I am discussing the God of the Bible.

Well thank you for finally defining one of your terms! Something I’ve been asking for you to do for a page now . . .

So you can't read the thread title?
So you didn't follow the discussion of this thread?
That's not my fault.
You should have defined YOUR terms since you were discussing something totally irrelevant to THIS THREAD.

Originally posted by JPhish

Originally posted by TruthParadox
I also told you that you could simply type 'biblical contradictions' in Google to get your fill.

Originally posted by JPhish
i've done so; most of these sites arguments are quite weak; and again, inconsequential.

How are they weak?
They are in the text itself...
There are a certain number of contradictions which CAN be explained by translation errors, however if you did read the link I presented, you would know that quite a few can not be attributed to this.

you half way answered your own question already. How many are “quite a few”? can you give me AN (ONE) example of a contradiction that cannot be attributed to translation error?

So you didn't read the link I presented. It would have been wise for you to have read it.
Near the bottom it says:
All of the above contradictions have been carefully studied, and when necessary the original languages have been consulted.

Originally posted by JPhish

Originally posted by JPhish
It is not just the evidence i want. I want terms to be defined, the objecthood of metaphysical beings and conditions to be addressed, and a bit of humility on your part.

Originally posted by TruthParadox
Why does this matter?

It matters because only now are you defining terms that would have avoided pointless arguments on your part.

Again, if you had read the thread you would know what the threads discussion was about.
It's not my fault that you did not have enough information to make the correct arguments.

Originally posted by JPhish

However, my arguments are specificly for those that try to use logic to support God.
You can always claim that God is above logic and thus logic is irrelevant,

I’ve been using logic this whole time. You’re the one who claimed to be able to prove that an entity (that you cannot prove or disprove the existence of) contradicts “him self”.

That's right. He does contradict himself.
Based on what the Bible says about God, he does contradict himself.
This is the discussion.
You seem to know nothing of what the Bible says, so I can't understand how you can even pretend to argue.

Originally posted by JPhish
right about what??? you don't even know what you're arguing about . . .

How so?


Edit to add:
I just looked back at page 20 because I believe I did 'define my terms'.
Turns out I was correct:

Originally posted by TruthParadox
If the Bible is the word of God or if the Bible is an accurate description of God, then the contradictions stand. If God is not the God of the Bible, then one might be able to defend these things.

Turns out you don't have a leg to stand on.


[edit on 9-10-2008 by TruthParadox]

Don't worry Good Wolf, I've been where you are ,and the truth really does set you free and it strips confusion away from you too. I have had you tagged as my friend from the first of your posts I read, you always say things that make sense,from the heart. Peace

Thanks a bunch. It's most appreciated.

Hey Wolf hows it going ?
I have been praying that you find the answers your seeking .
Sorry that we couldnt have been more helpful to you in this thread.

But it WAS one of the points in our discussion.
You replied to my post in which that was one of the points I made.

It doesn’t matter . . . you said that G*d contradicts himself and therefore does not exist. You still have no proof for this statement in regards to the Judeo-Christian G*d or any other. If you didn’t jump to baseless conclusions; (like me being a Christian) you wouldn’t be in this mess to begin with. I was purposely ambiguous to highlight this fact. You make assumptions and think you know more than you do.

You said "that you can provide evidence for".
I gave you evidence.

but you didn’t give me a number. I purposely asked for a small number so that we could address a FEW things. But instead you copped out and threw entire websites at me.

And if you do not believe that to be evidence then you can look in any Bible and verify it to be correct.

I’ve already stated several times that I’m not going to siphon through your website links in hopes of stumbling upon what you believe to be a truth.

But which God am I talking about?
If you had even read any of my posts you would know I am referring to the God of The Bible.
sigh...

Well this was not clear. You said that G*d does not exist. Not that the Judeo-Christian G*d does not make sense and therefore MIGHT not exist. You still haven’t proved the latter.

One of the points I made was REFERRING to the Bible.
Not to mention the WHOLE THREAD is ABOUT THIS GOD.
Read the freakin' title. It clearly says 'Christian'

It doesn’t matter . . . its called a digression.

Nice kindergarten comeback.
Now I know better what kind of a chap I'm dealing with.

Your insult was much more caustic than my “reality check” of a suggestion.

So you can't read the thread title?

Digression digression digression

So you didn't follow the discussion of this thread?

You should have defined YOUR terms since you were discussing something totally irrelevant to THIS THREAD.

I did define my terms every time. I made it clear when I was talking of the Judeo-Christian G*d either by declaring that, or within obvious context. It’s not irrelevant. You’re claiming to know things which you simply can not know. I called you out on it. You said that “G*d contradicts “himself””. The statement is inherently flawed. All you needed do was rephrase your original statement which I objected to.

So you didn't read the link I presented. It would have been wise for you to have read it.
Near the bottom it says:
All of the above contradictions have been carefully studied, and when necessary the original languages have been consulted.

And on the flat earth website it says the same thing. Are you serious???

Again, if you had read the thread you would know what the threads discussion was about.
It's not my fault that you did not have enough information to make the correct arguments.

No it’s called digression. You made a very broad and ungrounded statement. You have yet to back it up. If you wish to rephrase your original statement; I will have no qualms with you.

However, my arguments are specificly for those that try to use logic to support God.

I was never supporting G*d. That’s where you fail.

You can always claim that God is above logic and thus logic is irrelevant,

One can claim that.

That's right. He does contradict himself.
Based on what the Bible says about God, he does contradict himself.
This is the discussion.

This would have made things simpler; but even then; when I asked you for an instance of this which you could prove; you failed to provide this proof.

You seem to know nothing of what the Bible says, so I can't understand how you can even pretend to argue.

because I’m not arguing using the bible. Sorry to disappoint.

If the Bible is the word of God or if the Bible is an accurate description of God, then the contradictions stand. If God is not the God of the Bible, then one might be able to defend these things.

here you claimed that one cannot defend your erroneous claims about the Judeo-Christian G*d. I disagreed. Again, only a handful of your assumed contradictions were even capable of being contradictions; regardless of their validity.

Turns out you don't have a leg to stand on.

I was never standing. I’ve been requesting you join me on the floor of humility.

[edit on 10/9/2008 by JPhish]

Boy this is a deep thread...............One thing is for sure fellas, after we die the Truth will come out, and all questions will be answered......

reply to post by rikk7111


Man invented all these confusing rules, and stories to reinforce them ,no need to wait until death to find out . That's what death is silly ,after that your finding out days are over! If I where you I wouldn't wait

reply to post by Simplynoone


erh, I haven't really moved from this. I'm not sure that I ever will, at least not in the near ti mid future.

This thread was good for me. After dropping my previous beliefs, this let me get my thoughts together, let me come to a logical conclusion subject to change once God shows up beyond reasonable doubt. I'm not closed off to god, in fact I'm probably more open now than ever. I just made sure that the ball was in his court.

I wanna thank you for your contribution to this thread.

reply to post by Good Wolf



You are right where you need to be my friend. God will show you thee. Look in the eyes of babes, look in the eyes of others, look in the mirror, Thee is there. Look in the mother nature recycling all life, look at the order of the movements of the stars, let the wonders of his works fascinate you and humble you, for we can not understand something so magnificent.

It took me a couple yrs. to rid myself of a impacted belief. If the mind is closed, God can not show us things. Like you said, you are more open then ever before...God led you our of religion so you could open your mind and heart. How can God come to someone with a close mind? The beauty in this, is your body is a temple all in itself that God can dwell in if you let the world humble you. Be a peace keeper, bring light where it doesnt shine. Listen to your heart. You are right where you are supposed to be. Bless you in your path.

There are truths in the Bible, here is how I see it. If its a message of love, grace, mercy and peace, there is God. If its a message of wrath, fear, force, this is not Thee. Blessings,

LV

We're just running around in circles now...
This is ridiculous.

Originally posted by JPhish

But it WAS one of the points in our discussion.
You replied to my post in which that was one of the points I made.

It doesn’t matter . . . you said that G*d contradicts himself and therefore does not exist. You still have no proof for this statement in regards to the Judeo-Christian G*d or any other. If you didn’t jump to baseless conclusions; (like me being a Christian) you wouldn’t be in this mess to begin with. I was purposely ambiguous to highlight this fact. You make assumptions and think you know more than you do.

At first I DID think you were a Christian, because 99.999% of people who would argue against an atheistic belief ARE Christian. That's not a huge leap of assumption if you ask me...
Though you proved very clearly that you arn't a Christian, as you know next to nothing about the Bible.

Originally posted by JPhish
but you didn’t give me a number. I purposely asked for a small number so that we could address a FEW things. But instead you copped out and threw entire websites at me.

We could have discussed any of those individual contradictions on the site if you wanted . Guess what? We still can.

Originally posted by JPhish
I’ve already stated several times that I’m not going to siphon through your website links in hopes of stumbling upon what you believe to be a truth.

It's not what I believe to be truth... It's clear cut facts.
You could have saved a lot of time by saying you didn't want the evidence and merely wanted to be considered correct.

Originally posted by JPhish
Well this was not clear. You said that G*d does not exist. Not that the Judeo-Christian G*d does not make sense and therefore MIGHT not exist. You still haven’t proved the latter.

Wrong again.
Read the first post on page 20.
I stated very clearly I was talking about the God in The Bible.
I stated very clearly that the points I made required what the Bible states as well as a belief that the Bible is the perfect word of God.
I guess you missed that part.

Originally posted by JPhish
It doesn’t matter . . . its called a digression.

I NEVER digressed from my original points.
Simply go back and read my post on page 20.
I stated very clearly where I was comming from.

Originally posted by JPhish
I did define my terms every time.

Hardly.
You argued against my intitial post and only several posts later, you said things like "God in the Bible is not the ONLY God. I could be talking about another God" - which is irrelevant because in the initial post it is clear that I was talking about the God in the Bible.
Or you would say that it doesn't matter that it says God is omnipotent in the Bible - But it DOES matter. Because again, if you read my posts, I said I was arguing against the specific belief IN the Bible.

Originally posted by JPhish
You’re claiming to know things which you simply can not know.

That's not true at all.
If you believe this then you misread my posts.
I never claimed to know that God doesn't exist.
I do know what I can know which is in the specific text of the Bible, God contradicts himself.
For example:
God forgetting things in the Bible when, in the same Bible, it claims that he is all knowing.

YOU would argue against this by saying that it's possible for an all powerful God to do this.
But that point is irrelevant, because I am merely stating the logical falacy in the definition of our words and the Bible which DOES contradict itself.

Originally posted by JPhish

So you didn't read the link I presented. It would have been wise for you to have read it.
Near the bottom it says:
All of the above contradictions have been carefully studied, and when necessary the original languages have been consulted.

And on the flat earth website it says the same thing. Are you serious???

There's an obvious difference. If you can not see the difference then you are beyond all hope.
The statement I was refferring to CAN be backed up 100%.
Again, you don't want evidence against you, so you dodge this fact.
Sorry, go dodge somewhere else.
I'm not here to play games.

Originally posted by JPhish

However, my arguments are specificly for those that try to use logic to support God.

I was never supporting G*d. That’s where you fail.

You ALSO rarely used logic.
Now you have two reasons to not argue against me.
I suggest you use them.

Originally posted by JPhish

That's right. He does contradict himself.
Based on what the Bible says about God, he does contradict himself.
This is the discussion.

This would have made things simpler; but even then; when I asked you for an instance of this which you could prove; you failed to provide this proof.

1) I stated this from the getgo
2) You said concerning one of the contradictions that if what I claimed the Bible said was true, then the contradiction would be true.
I gave you the specific scriptures.
So even given YOUR definition of proof, I proved it to you.

i see your points. But you come across as far too sure of yourself in your writing. Personally, I see problems with that. Especially when discussing the metaphysical. but to each his own . . .

Originally posted by truthparadox
We could have discussed any of those individual contradictions on the site if you wanted . Guess what? We still can.

that is what i wanted, so let's address a few. You choose.

Originally posted by JPhish
i see your points. But you come across as far too sure of yourself in your writing. Personally, I see problems with that. Especially when discussing the metaphysical. but to each his own . . .

I'm not 100% sure of anything I believe, but as far as writting I think it's far more beneficial if you are sure of yourself and have confidence.
You seem pretty sure of some of the things you say as well.

Originally posted by truthparadox
that is what i wanted, so let's address a few. You choose.

Sorry, I'm done arguing this subject.
I'm all burnt out .
It's clear to me that there are contradictions in the Bible, and if you don't believe that then that's fine.
But if you want to read up on it, there are plenty of sites that list them.

[edit on 11-10-2008 by TruthParadox]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
I'm desperately looking for the answer to two questions:

1) Does a God(s) exist? and,
2) Is there an afterlife?

Originally posted by Good Wolf
then things got shaky for me when 6 months ago I started hearing a voice in my head (which I later attributed to God) and it taught me many lesions and wonderful messages.

You have answered your own first question with a statement and then denied it.

So if you do not believe your own interaction, why should I expect you to believe anything I say?

Secondly, if you dont believe the first, then you wont believe your second question. Your understanding of the first, leads you to the affirmation of the second.

Just what voice is it that you think came to you anyway?

Throughout the Bible, which you also have tossed aside, perhaps you should pick it up and see what other men did in regards to the Word coming to them.

First to know who the Word was:

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

and then the Word made flesh:

John 1:14
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth

With the voice coming to you, and that voice being of God, and God telling you that through him you have eternal life, who other then God can you believe?

Peace

[edit on 30-10-2008 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by HIFIGUY


Well if there is no God there is no afterlife, simply. But even if there is a God, that does not necessarily mean there is an afterlife.

The voice cannot be said to God because we can't be sure there is a god. The voice is easier to explain as one of many possible psychological phenomena.