Originally posted by FRIGHTENERI saw your picture with your kids, very nice, by the way. Glad you're
dedicated to them, and glad you share your feelings on a topic like this.
We need your valuable comments.

Thank you and thank you

May I respectfully ask a hypothetical question?

If, say 15 or 20 years from now, one of your children somehow found
himself arrested and charged with a brutal murder, would you still desire
torture?

You may.

First of all, you are asking me to imagine my kids grown and committing an act as detestable as opening a microwave, sticking their VERY MUCH ALIVE baby into the microwave, shutting the door, pushing the minute buttons followed by the start button. *MY GAWD.. THAT IS EVEN HARD TO TYPE OUT*

UNIMAGINABLE!!

Let me start off by stating that I KNOW I am raising my sons in a way that they would NO DOUBT NEVER entertain such a thought. I make sure to keep their minds and hearts SUPER TENDER!! They are strong spirited, but their will is in my hands and I mold it to shape my little babies into what will eventually be honest, protective, hard working, proud and loving men... they will be like those before them in their family, always seeking to do the right thing with passion!

Now, let's say that I wasn't training them in the way they should go and they committed such an act equally as grotesque I love my sons and I always will, but if they were to commit such an act, no.. I could not blame others for feeling the way I feel toward this woman.

Would I want them tortured? Of course not... no matter how old they get I will always remember the first time I held them in my arms and the excitement I felt that was evidence in the HUGE grin on my face. There is no doubt my heart would not be able to handle such a thing.

Honestly, I can't sit here and pretend that I could conceive of them doing such a thing. They have good hearts and I am too proud of them to entertain this in the light that could allow the honest answer you are looking for. I am sorry.

I still stand behind what I have said. I also have faith and full assurance that I will never be put in the scenario that you are asking of me to consider.

My boys have watched their momma go through too much for them to ever think they have an excuse for an act such as this.. and I wouldn't even have to tell them this for them to do the right thing in their life. This I have full confidence in

You're welcome. And thank-you for such a quick reply.

First of all, you are asking me to imagine my kids grown and committing an act as detestable as opening a microwave, sticking their VERY MUCH ALIVE baby into the microwave, shutting the door, pushing the minute buttons followed by the start button. *MY GAWD.. THAT IS EVEN HARD TO TYPE OUT*
UNIMAGINABLE!!

I'm terribly sorry, I should have been more considerate. Please forgive
me, ok?

I KNOW I am raising my sons in a way that they would NO DOUBT NEVER entertain such a thought. I make sure to keep their minds and hearts SUPER TENDER!! They are strong spirited, but their will is in my hands

YES-it is. And they are very lucky to have you as their mom.

no.. I could not blame others for feeling the way I feel toward this woman.

Great honesty! Me niether, then.

Would I want them tortured? Of course not...
my heart would not be able to handle such a thing.

Ahh, breakthrough, here!

I still stand behind what I have said. I also have faith and full assurance that I will never be put in the scenario that you are asking of me to consider.

Glad to hear that, justamomma. I pray you never are. May your 'assurer'
bless us all that way!

My boys have watched their momma go through too much for them to ever think they have an excuse for an act such as this..

I hear you on that. Makes you & them stronger for it though, huh? I gotta
love your conviction and positivity.

Again, I apologize for not asking in a more sensitive manner.
Difficult question for anyone in your shoes, I imagine.

The pain that would be experienced while being microwaved to death would be intense in the extreme. That baby would have died in absolute agony.
She killed her own baby. That's so sad.

just have to ask , what do they feed you guys over there for this shear of insanity to happen ?

feelings of hopelessness and despair is all over this thing but the size of her ego, im just blinded

why did she mate in the first place ?

learn to use a condom

Originally posted by Krieger
Also, I would like to point out this mother was hetero. The mother of that missing girl is hetero. Yet isn't one of the arguements against Gay Adoption is that Gays make bad parents? I've never heard of a gay person microwaving their adopted baby.

How can you be so insensitive?
It's a cruel thing to use such an incident to make a segregatory, socially discriminating statement.
This nightmare that happened has nothing to do with your problems and/or issues.

Originally posted by Recouper

Originally posted by Krieger
Also, I would like to point out this mother was hetero. The mother of that missing girl is hetero. Yet isn't one of the arguements against Gay Adoption is that Gays make bad parents? I've never heard of a gay person microwaving their adopted baby.

How can you be so insensitive?
It's a cruel thing to use such an incident to make a segregatory, socially discriminating statement.
This nightmare that happened has nothing to do with your problems and/or issues.

mabye it does in away, they want to have children yet many nation deprive them of the right to be a parent , mabye even a good one,

the paradox in question might be that only hetero couples can have it the natural way , but most of the kids out there living a life in limbo between neglect and lack of love at home do come from hetero families,

mabye everyone should pass a course in parenting before youre even alowed to have a child ...

nah im not for that but something must be done inorder for this to not happen again wheter it be a homo or hetero couple

an eye for an eye

its just so primative

its sad....YES, its very sad...but Im personally finding this overwhelming amount of people saying 'kill the b***tch) just as sad....

when are people going to start looking at another stance - we've been doing this eye for an eye killing gig for century's, - and it still hasn't gotten us anywhere...killing still persists, and we are as far away from 'cause' as we ever were....oh, but shoot the buggers, that will fix it....yeah, whatever...

a death for a death will stop crime? -- do you really believe that?. It seems to me that crime is totally oblivious of punishment, - been proven time and time again...

I look forward to the day that people start waking up and looking at other options.... real knowledge is the key here, but people are too scared to leave their bloody television sets to find it...

thank you for listening...




[edit on m 08Sat, 30 Aug 2008 08:06:29 -0500America/Chicagof= by Jacqua]

Originally posted by zerbot565

Originally posted by Recouper

Originally posted by Krieger
Also, I would like to point out this mother was hetero. The mother of that missing girl is hetero. Yet isn't one of the arguements against Gay Adoption is that Gays make bad parents? I've never heard of a gay person microwaving their adopted baby.

How can you be so insensitive?
It's a cruel thing to use such an incident to make a segregatory, socially discriminating statement.
This nightmare that happened has nothing to do with your problems and/or issues.

mabye it does in away, they want to have children yet many nation deprive them of the right to be a parent , mabye even a good one,

the paradox in question might be that only hetero couples can have it the natural way , but most of the kids out there living a life in limbo between neglect and lack of love at home do come from hetero families,

mabye everyone should pass a course in parenting before youre even alowed to have a child ...

nah im not for that but something must be done inorder for this to not happen again wheter it be a homo or hetero couple

Well, your making some sense. I feel Krieger was being provocative and inaproapriate. But there is problem were gay couples often can not have children, at least in many countries.
This event shouldn't be the catalyst for this discussion....

Of course most kids who are neglected come from hetero families, there are very few kids in gay families. And I would assume that those kids who are in gay families are watched more closely by their surrounding community for various reasons.
Now, just to be clear, being hetero doesn't mean your any more likely to microwave your baby to death than you would be if you were gay.

This case does sound a bit tricky though. There were NO external burns, they couldn't even be sure right off a microwave was involved, but because high temps were involved with no external signs they figure it must have been a microwave.

The kid was found unconscious and brought to the hospital the next morning. They had left the child with a babysitter that night, so while it probably was the mother this is not a case of a crispy critter, it is more subtle and it is possible someone else was involved.


[edit on 30-8-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by caballero
Though your argument for my avatar is convincing, your right he would have gotten the death sentence. That doesnt make me any less a pacifist though and he isnt real so it not like I have one of charlie manson on there.

Fake person fake crimes, a beautiful performance from a young actor who died before his times. Its more of a tribute, than me expressing built up animosity.

My stance is the same I wont Judge this woman because it only adds to the exsisting problems of the world. Killing her doesnt solve anything at all, it just cures our bloodthirst.

What do you think we are teaching our kids when we are so intolerant that we call for death as a punishment. What if this woman is severly mentally ill? That doesnt make the situation better but it also means she wasnt in her right mind when she did it.

We know nothing of the circumstances of the situation, only that which happened. How can we pass judgement so easily without asking if there is anything wrong in her head. No normal person could have done this crime, listening to the babies screams of pain and persisted I wouldnt want to meet the person that could do such a thing. So it leaves me asking if she is mentally stable.

Let me ask you this, if someone you knew did this lets say it was your mom, and you knew them and trusted them to be a very good likeable person, and they did it because they were suffering from psychosis or some mental illness that made them completely different. When people suffer from mental illnesses they can offen sperate into two different egos, basically making two completely different people. Would you have the same bloodthirsty vengence attitude?

I just cant get my head around the fact that you look down on people for killing people yet we want to kill people to teach other people that killing is wrong. Has this strategy worked so far?

[edit on 29-8-2008 by caballero]

To be completely honest with you, although I respect what your saying, I'm almost positive that if someone did this to one of your children then your reaction would be the complete opposite of how your thinking now.

By killing someone who has killed a person does teach a message. The message it states is simple... you have no right to take someones live, and if you do then we'll take yours.

What exactly are you trying to say or imply? That we should be lenient on killers and not punish them by the same method they killed their victims? Make them serve a life sentence and work in prison you say, well do you think thats adequate suffering in comparison to the victims family and friends suffering?

The answer is NO! It isn't adequate what so ever, if you deliberately take someones life then I'm afraid your life should be taken also. Simple as that.

You know what I find it absolutely shocking and disturbing that there are people out there who think like you do.

Killing still persists??? Killing will ALWAYS persist, just as adultery, stealing, lying etc all will.

We are human beings, and as human beings sometimes we don't always play by the book. On a cellular level we may be driven by chemical reactions but on a higher level we are driven by emotions.

From your above logic it wouldn't be wrong for me to assume that you have never felt anger or hatred towards anyone in your life?? Well I'm sorry but I don't believe that, and I also don't believe that you have never wanted to hurt someone in your life either.

If crime is totally oblivious to punishment (which in my oppinion if someone is intent on doing something criminal then they will do it regardless of the punishment) then what do you suggest we do?

Real knowledge is the key? Please explain what "real knowledge" you are refering to that is applicable when a woman has microwaved her one month year old daughter to death?

I'm absolutely positive that if something as sickening and evil as described by the OP happened to a member of your family then you would NOT be thinking in the way you have just described.

Simply put if a man battered, raped and tortured your mother you wouldn't want to kill him??? Well if thats how you think then personally I'd be of the oppinion that your "not all there".

[edit on 30/8/08 by Death_Kron]

[edit on 30/8/08 by Death_Kron]

Originally posted by Jacquaan eye for an eye

its just so primative

its sad....YES, its very sad...but Im personally finding this overwhelming amount of people saying 'kill the b***tch) just as sad....

when are people going to start looking at another stance - we've been doing this eye for an eye killing gig for century's, - and it still hasn't gotten us anywhere...killing still persists, and we are as far away from 'cause' as we ever were....oh, but shoot the buggers, that will fix it....yeah, whatever...

a death for a death will stop crime? -- do you really believe that?. It seems to me that crime is totally oblivious of punishment, - been proven time and time again...

I look forward to the day that people start waking up and looking at other options.... real knowledge is the key here, but people are too scared to leave their bloody television sets to find it...

thank you for listening...

The day that I can step in this mother's shoes and understand *why* she did what she did is the day I need to be taken off this planet, PERIOD!

I don't understand this mentality of "lets look at the persons stance."

I am not scared, but I *was* and still am LIVID in hearing that a mother could harm her baby AT ALL, let alone in such a grotesque way. We are supposed to be the nurturers, protectors, and support system for our families, not the ones that KILL them!

To me, society has reached a dangerously insane mentality when ppl, upon hearing such things as this, say "lets try to understand her and put ourselves in her shoes."

*pukes* If you can understand her mentality may I please ask that you remove yourself from the general population and certainly from the company of small children..



[edit on 31-8-2008 by justamomma]

Originally posted by justamomma
To me, society has reached a dangerously insane mentality when ppl, upon hearing such things as this, say "lets try to understand her and put ourselves in her shoes."

*pukes* If you can understand her mentality may I please ask that you remove yourself from the general population and certainly from the company of small children..

So if someone (for example) is hearing voices that are telling them to kill you think they should just be put to death after they've killed rather than having them recieve some sort of mental health care to prevent it in the first place? That mentality is not only dangerous but short sighted.