Here's the Ad Obama is suing to keep you from watching, page 8
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reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 09:37 AM by loam
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic



Ok. No need to get snippy.

Now, what about the rest of it, BH?

I know you can't think not finding the "respectable" and "mainstream" language in print is sufficient to overcome the factual extent of their historical interaction, right?

Because let me restate it:

Originally posted by loam

I think if somebody is hosting on your behalf a "meet and greet" to launch your political career...and you've actually stood in their living room...and worked as President in the non-profit organization they founded....and served together on the same 9 member board of another organization...and were together in a number of other public events, panels and speeches, you don't get to pass this off as some distant association.

Post.



Is all that wrong too?

Honestly, I want to know.

[edit on 28-8-2008 by loam]


reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 10:01 AM by marinesniper
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic



they should have hung Ayers for what he was apart of and did...then we would not be having this silly discussion about that piece of garbage.

And I served to protect animals like him just to see him teach at a University and be friendly with someone who could very well be president...

you Ayers supporters make me sick...so does Obama's choice of friends...


reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 10:42 AM by Benevolent Heretic
Originally posted by loam
Is all that wrong too?


Wrong? That's a judgment call. I have been debating the "facts" of the ad. In
This Post, I said no one is debating that Ayers did bad things. He did.

Like you said, you think the association between Obama and Ayers can't be passed off as a distant association. I don't think so either, but I don't think it MEANS anything. In other words, I don't think Ayers' criminal activity (some 20 years prior to meeting Obama) can, in any way, reflect on Obama, who was 8 years old when they were done.

By the way (and these are MY words) Ayers DID go on to become respectable and mainstream. A college professor is a respectable job. Chicago University is mainstream... That doesn't mean I respect him. Many people respect him and he is a professor in a mainstream University. His IS "respectable and mainstream", at least in some people's opinion.

But Obama didn't say that.

I once was "friends" with a guy. I was in his house, spent the night, in fact, was friends with his girlfriend and we were associated for many months. I made some deals to get some microphones for his band and stuff like that. We helped each other out. He was a pimp! (I can't believe I'm telling this story here) But what does that say about me? How does his criminal activity reflect on me? How does my association with him taint who I am?

I cannot tell you how many associations I have had with people who were downright unsavory, and even criminal.

Barack Obama was a young politician. He (like every other politician I know) has had questionable associations in his attempt to rise to the top. You don't get to be a candidate for POTUS without making SOME questionable associations. No candidate's closet is bare.

I'm NOT defending Obama. I'm saying how I see this situation. This is why I don't judge Obama based on what I consider to be loose associations. Judge all you want, but if I judged everyone based on the actions of the people they hung out with, I would not have ANY friends.

Have none of you served on a committee with an unsavory person? Gone to church with someone who committed a crime? Have none of you ever been in the living room of a criminal? Maybe I've just known a lot of people in my life, but man! If I were judged by some of the people I have associated with, I'd be in jail!

And Obama has known a LOT more people than I have.


reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 10:51 AM by loam
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic



Even though we disagree on the conclusions, I think that is a very fair reply.

Thank you.


reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 11:28 AM by Dronetek
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic



Jesus... It was a quote made by Alexander Cockburn.
It's not the opinion of the website that Cockburn said it.
It's not Obama's opinion that Cockburn said it.
It's a FACT that Cockburn said it.


Than why did Obama's fact sheet describe him as "member of the establishment and friends with the mayor"? Its practically the same as saying "respectable and mainstream". Its OBVIOUS that's the image his campaign was trying to push of Ayers.



reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 12:59 PM by Quazga
reply to post by Golack



LOL...


I'd love to see the ad with John Adams being the target...


"His cousin was a vicious terrorist who openly attacked the crown and tortured members of the British Military with tarring and feathering... He himself was key in the decision to attack the government of the colonies...

Do we know enough to elect John Adams?"


Come on people... rising up against your own government is one of THE MOST PATRIOTIC things one can do.

Look at everyone of the patriots from the revolutionary war. everyone one of them would be called terrorists today if they pulled that.


reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 02:57 PM by SRTkid86
reply to post by Dronetek



to kind of add to this statement.

does anybody else find it absolutely amazing that Ron Paul can have dirt kicked all over him because of the words of one of his assistants writing under his name, or a white supremacist group donating money to his campaign (remember, they have no control over what the people who donate them money do.) and people will defend this guy, with speculation on how, it's POSSIBLE to work together and not be friends, or that it's possible that he is reformed even though 8 years ago he was on the record, saying he is not remoseful for his actions... WAKE UP PEOPLE, he is nothing special, just the same empty suit, in a seriously corrupt organized crime syndacit (gov't)

i just think its your typical two faced double standard crap we always will get. i imagine A LOT of the people defending Obama over this disgusting little tidbit of information, are the saying people who were calling Ron Paul a racist scum bag when they found out that a white supremacist group donated to him.


reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 04:52 PM by nunya13
I really don't appreciate when people ASS-U-ME that because you defend a candidates actions means you support them.

This is exactly my point!

Just because Obama is associated with this guy 40 years after the fact means nothing.

Just because I'm not ripping Obama to shreds for this doesn't mean that I support him.

Not everything is black and white.

I don't like John McCain either, but I wasn't falling in line ripping him to shreds like everyone else because of that stupid house thing.

That last time anyone really knows of Obama's association with this guy was 10 years ago. Other than him donating to Obama's campaign.

Just because white supremacists donated to Ron Paul's campaign doesn't mean he's a white supremacist.

Joe Biden made an awesome point at the DNC last night. He said he considers John McCain his friend. Not the kind of friend that politicians like to call each other for pleasantries. He made it clear that he and John McCain ARE friends.

He also said that he doesn't believe John McCain is fit to run the country.

My point is that just because you associate with someone doesn't mean you have to support or buy into every single ideology that person has.

I know plenty of people whose pasts are shady and whose ideals are very far removed from my own. But you know what? They are good people with good intentions. Good jobs, decent families, good lives. I don't judge them because of their past or because i don't agree with everything they do or have done.

Show me something that shows this guy works with groups like the one he used to be a part of. Show me that he is a bad person who is selfish and is using force to promote his ideologies and then I rethink my stance.
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